The claim that Las Vegas says anything about the quality of Sanders supporters is totally Bogus

[Armstead]

One of the memes currently being used to discredit Sanders and his supporters is the brouhahaha at the Nevada convention. The contentious atmosphere and behavior of some is cited as evidence that the entire Sanders campaign is comprised of the Barbarians at the Gates -- an army of rude, uncouth bullying Berniebros.

Bullshit.

I am not going to defend bad behavior by any side. But what happened has to be put into a larger context of human nature, and the behavior of people in crowds when they are angry.

That has NOTHING to do with the character of people who support Sanders.

Have you ever been to a City Council or local board meetings about contentious issues?

I have been to many public meetings in my professional role. And there is a pattern that is very common. The more contentious the issue, and the more people care about it, the more raucous it can becomes.

This is the nature of politics, human nature and crowds.

For example, suppose a developer is proposing a shopping mall in a natural site where people are polarized over whether it should be bullt. There are going to be a lot of people showing up from the pro and con sides -- AND they are going to be very passionate in expressing themselves. There is often yelling, booing, insults and otehr expressions of animosity and/or support from supporters and opponents.

AND that behavior gets worse, if it appears that the officials running the meeting are rigging things to one side. If they use procedures to shut down discussion, or force votes inappropriately there is likely to be an outraged response.

And in such circumstances, people do not always behave at their best.

People are passionate about this primary. And some people feel they were screwed by the way the process was handled in Nevada.

And it is not surprising that it erupted.

Now just one hypothetical. Suppose in November, there is some example of GOP vote rigging in a state that makes the difference between who wins or loses. (a la Florida in 2000.) And suppose thetre is a public meeting with officials to make a final determination.

Do you really the grass roots Democrats attending wold be following Emily Post rules if they believe those running the meeting are acting in ways that seem to be rigging it for the GOP?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Does anyone remember the antiwar protests of the late '60s-early '70s?

Violence of some kind was almost the norm - usually just pushing and shoving and throwing things, lots of yelling, but sometimes the police beat people up or used tear gas. Sometimes there was fighting between the protestors and right-wing civilians. If you participated in any of these protests you knew there was a chance you'd get hurt or tear-gassed, if not arrested. I'm not saying I approve of violence as a means of expressing an opinion - I don't - but if enough people - even good, normally law-abiding people - get pissed off enough it will happen. I've seen it happen and it will happen again.

[Vincardog]

7. That violence is properly termed a "Police Riot". A riot instigated and escalated b the police.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. A lot of it was, but not all of it.

The 1968 Chicago convention was a big-time police riot. In some other cases, the violence started with the protesters - usually minor stuff like shoving, throwing things, or trying to get to a location they were being kept out of - and the police overreacted and escalated the situation. The Kent State massacre was an extreme example of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

[Vincardog]

11. Throwing tear gas in response to people "trying to get to a location they were being kept out of"

Meets by definition of police riot.

[potone]

2. Thank you!

It is very clear from the videos that the process was rigged and it is not surprising that people reacted as they did. Barbara Boxer made the situation worse. Of course I don't approve of the rudeness of the behavior of some of the people present there but it has to be viewed in context, as you say, which is what the Hillary supporters who claimed to be so outraged by the behavior of the Sanders supporters don't do. That, along with refusing to accept the fact that it seems more than a little strange that it always seems to be Sanders voters or delegates that are excluded from voting.

[Gavile]

3. This could easily have been avoided if it had been handled properly by the officials

[frylock]

4. It's the same shit they've been running with since day one.

They have a shit candidate, so they have to focus on a false narrative about their opponent's supporters. They're off their fucking nut if they think that strategy will work in the GE. If they believe Bernie bro is bad, they're in for quite a shock.

[azurnoir]

5. true enough but with 2 on going investigation FBI -email server and Clinton Foundation activities

there is a strong to distract

[Vincardog]

6. Change GOP to HRC and you have the real future.

[Bobbie Jo]

8. If it were just Las Vegas, I would agree with you.

It isn't.

[Armstead]

13. Same dynamic applies anywhere in similar situaitons

[Bobbie Jo]

21. No

This has been an on-going "thing" that goes all the way back to July of last year.

[whatchamacallit]

24. So by your brilliant reckoning we're all thugs and goons?

Is that the message?

[Armstead]

25. I don't recall a whole lot of disruptive events going all the way back to July

I don't know what "thing" you are referring to. Seems like it's been no worse than any political campaign -- except for the phony delicacy that has been applied by the Clinton campaign as to what is supposed to be "acceptable" behavior as conveniently applied by the likes of David Brock.

Since Day 1 the Sanders campaign has been made to seem like some "other" with sinister implications, rather than what it really is -- which is a political campaign with passionate supporters.

[Bobbie Jo]

28. Not -what- thing, -A- thing.

A pattern of behavior.

Throughout this campaign.

[Armstead]

30. As I said, that is just an attempt to portray normal political behavior as "different"

Just like raising issues is "personal smearing."

You will soon learn the difference when the campaign moves into General Election mode against Trump.

Bernie and his supporters will seem like pink fluffy bunnies in retrospect.

[Bobbie Jo]

36. And as I said

If were just this incident you would have a point.

Each time it is defended and/or dismissed.

I've seen enough, I have no use for these people.

[Armstead]

37. Well they have no use for you, so I guess it evens out

[YouDig]

9. You're making excuses for sexist slurs, death threats, and violence.

Maybe if you said that those Sanders delegates were despicable and out of line, and in the future Bernie needs to pick more responsible people to represent him, that would be one thing. But anyone who comes here to say, well, gee, people get angry about stuff, the apologists own it too.

[Armstead]

12. Oh horseshit -- You didn't even bother trying to figure out what I said

[YouDig]

15. "This is the nature of politics, human nature and crowds."

I'm a human, and I've been in crowds, and didn't call anyone a bitch or issue any death threats or throw anything.

[Armstead]

18. Well how nice for you

As I noted in the OP, I have seen situations where usually well behaved and reasonable people get carried away by their passions in crowd situations.

You are also implying that a huge number of peope aere on a giant jihhaad for Sanders, and would go beyind the bounds of civilzed behavior. Which is patently ridiculous.

And I would say .0001 percent of the people who support Sanders would issue death threats or throw things.

And I'll betcha there's a ,0001 percent of Clinton supporters who would do the same thing.

[YouDig]

19. Interesting speculation, but the fact is that it is Sanders supporters issuing death threats,

not Hillary supporters. It was a Sanders rally where people cheered when Hillary was called a whore, not a Hillary rally. It was Sanders delegates who yelled "bitch" at Barbara Boxer, not Hillary supporters.

It probably is a small percentage, but Bernie needs to make sure that that small percentage doesn't end up being delegates representing him at conventions. And other Bernie supporters like you need to not make excuses for those people, but instead call them out on their despicable behavior. Do you see that happening here? No. On DU, what we see is excuse after excuse.

[Armstead]

22. I might criticize it but that would be buying into the bullshit meme

You ever been to a pro football game, especially when the states are high?

You want to condemn everyone who acts up in every situation? Are you personally responsible for that?

Is Sanders personally responsible for telling some jerk to call people and say vile things?

[YouDig]

23. I wouldn't hesitate to criticize someone supporting my team if they got violent.

For example, there were like 20 posts on DU from Bernie supporters about the Wire guy who beat up his girlfriend, trying to claim that "Hillary supporters are violent". Well, that guy should be in jail. But unlike what happened in Nevada, he wasn't a Hillary delegate, and that was not a commonly recurring incident, like it is with Bernie people.

And if he was a Hillary delegate, I would say that Hillary needs to make sure not to pick anymore delegates with violent temperaments like that. Will we hear that from Bernie or any of his supporters? So far, it looks like all we are going to get are excuses for inexcusable behavior.

[Armstead]

26. So why weren't there 20 self-motivated threads from Clinton supporters ....

condemning that guy?

As for the rest I stand by my OP. It speaks to how I see it. You are obviously free to disagree with my point. But at least disagree with what the actual post actually said.

[YouDig]

29. Because he is irrelevant. There weren't any threads defending him, like you are defending the

death threats and sexist name calling and chair throwing. This happened at a state convention, with delegates who were representing Bernie Sanders. It wasn't some random TV star.

[Armstead]

32. Read the OP...Nothing more to say

[AgingAmerican]

38. They got caught cheating

So they do this

[peggysue2]

14. Defending the Indefensible

Pathetic. But please keep digging. You're good at it.

[Maedhros]

31. Were you capable of basic reading comprehension, you may have noticed this:

I am not going to defend bad behavior by any side.

I mean, it was right there at the beginning of the post and everything. Go back and look again - I'm willing to bet that it's still there.

Let me double-check...yep, still there.

[Armstead]

33. Maybe I'll take it off just to be ornery ;)

[Maedhros]

35. Now, let's not gaslight the Hillary supplicants. [n/t]

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I have

And usually people who go to Democratic or Republican Party functions, beyond tea and crumpets, also have been at those meetings.

You sir are correct

[Agschmid]

17. I agree most Sanders supporters I know wouldn't act like that.

It would be great to see some unity around calling out the threats of violence but I haven't even seen much of that.

[Armstead]

20. Because most of the pointing out of it is accusatory broad brushing

Sure I don't like how some of them behaved. I don't like the way a lot of people behave.

If you'd like, I'll also be happy to call out the violence that occurs in the losing city after a Super Bowl, or every gang of hooligans standing on street corners maliciously harassing innocent passers by .....or any of the other bad behavior that occurs constantly thoroughout the world.

[Skwmom]

27. I saw people shouting. Stop the presses.

Another fake outrage over Bernie Supporters. What number is this? I've lost count.

[amborin]

34. that has been a David Brock meme from the start

[Armstead]

39. Yep....They're trying the same "Other" tactic they used against Obama

Not one of "us."

A messianic cult leader whose fans are cultlike worshippers of Obama.

They dragged it out from 2008, and added some new Commie and ideological seasoning for Sanders to the stale old dish