Hillary should drop out because she helped create ISIS

[Cheese Sandwich]

Her policy of overthrowing governments in the middle east, bad move, helped create ISIS.

Iraq: Voted for Bush's illegal war. Destabilized the whole region. Led to ISIS. Later she admitted the vote was a mistake.

Libya: Hillary's policies turned Libya into a terrorist hell hole. As the secretary of state in 2011, Hillary Clinton pressed the Obama administration to intervene militarily in Libya, with consequences that have gone far beyond the fall of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. (SOURCE) The president was wary. The secretary of state was persuasive. But the ouster of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi left Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven. (SOURCE)

Syria: Same exact story as Libya. Hilary Clinton encouraged president Obama to arm the Syrian rebels in trying to overthrow the government there. The result is a failed state that is crawling with terrorists like Al Qaeda and is the ISIS capital. She hasn't apologized for this yet. But instead she has only attacked president Obama, accusing him of not arming the rebel groups enough, and pushed the president toward a conflict with Russia, which thank goodness he has avoided.

If this record doesn't disqualify someone from being president I don't know what would.

[mooseprime]

1. but wait!!! that's not all!!!!

there's haiti, honduras, cluster bombs in civilian areas, and greenlighting enormous arms sales in 1:1 proportion with countries that donate to the clinton foundation. any one of these things should be more than enough, but no.

[Skwmom]

2. Giuliani's Clinton is a founding member of Isis will do serious damage to her I am the most

qualified President ever.

I think Trump will really start to hammer her on the competency issue. Because unlike Bernie he will not hold back.

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. Serious question: Do you know how to read?

Because I posted a bunch of links and stuff you might want to check that out.

[Cheese Sandwich]

7. You don't seem to. Her policies led to the rise of ISIS. There's no question about it.

So you admit Bush's policies helped create ISIS?

Then the same is true of Hillary Clinton because it's the exact same policy.

[Cheese Sandwich]

9. That is the shittiest excuse for Hillary's disasterous foreign policy I have ever heard.

Don't blame the people who decided to knock down the governments of Iraq, Libya, and Syria? Just blame history? What a cop out.

[Cheese Sandwich]

11. Actually you were holding her blameless.

You said " I don't blame individual cabinet officers or legislators or even presidents for complex phenomena centuries in the making. "

You blamed "history" and said the decisions couldn't be pinned down on individuals. But they can be. And Hillary was leading the charge on these shitty policies.

[Cheese Sandwich]

16. No I said she helped create ISIS.

She contributed to it. In a generous interpretation of it, she has very shitty judgement. In a bad interpretation, she just didn't care about the consequences of these policies because she saw some political or financial advantage in the choices she made.

So if you want to be really generous for Hillary, you can just say she has incredibly shitty judgement.

She is in fact responsible for the consequences of her decisions and policies.

It's patently absurd to hold her individually responsible.

That's what we're supposed to do in a democracy. Hold politicians responsible for their records.

[Cheese Sandwich]

19. You're not serious. You don't care about the issue. You can't possibly.

Voting for military appropriations is the same as LEADING THE CHARGE to bomb Libya? It's not even close to the same thing.

Lack of context? I linked sources and like 20 pages of New York Times special investigations. I gave like a multimedia presentation with articles and videos. They include the context. You're just repeating talking points.

Why do you defend these incredibly shitty policies that have objectively shattered millions of lives and left millions homeless and crippled, dead, poisoned? It's just awful. I don't how or why anyone would defend that.

[Cheese Sandwich]

25. I don't believe that you understand the issue at all.

You're sitting here defending the idea that Hillary Clinton made good foreign policy decisions, and her decisions didn't help ISIS.

And that's just completely false. Her work did help ISIS rise up and become a threat. And that is a fact.

It's very disturbing but also predictable that all the Clinton liberals are rallying around to defend this horrible record.

[Cheese Sandwich]

42. I don't want you to believe me. That's why I presented a bunch of evidence.

Last edited Wed May 18, 2016, 05:11 AM - Edit history (1)

[puffy socks]

29. Bernie voted to knock down the government of Iraq just 2 yrs earlier.

He voted for Somalia, he voted for Yugoslavia, he voted for Libya.

Oh yeah! # freepassforbernie

[Cheese Sandwich]

38. What garbage. That is complete bullshit.

Bernie voted against invading Iraq. Spoke very clearly against the invasion in 2003 and even against the Gulf War in 1991.

Yugoslavia is not part of this question. We're talking about ISIS.

Bernie did not vote to invade Libya. Congress never voted to authorize U.S. military action in Libya. He co-sponsored a resolution condemning human rights violations in Libya, and on calling Ghaddafi to resign.

[puffy socks]

47. Yes he speaks out of both sides of his mouth often.

that 94 crime bill another example.

1998 Iraq Liberation Act

Bernie voted for it. kit was a great idea in 98 , but not so much in 2002? lol!


People died in Yugoslavia because of his vote, you don't get to simply dismiss those lives and try and pigeon hole this to fit your agenda because your candidate has blood on his hands.


Clinton said Sanders "voted for regime change with respect to Libya."

Sanders’ vote signaled support for United Nations action to get rid of Gaddafi.

"the United Nations Security Council to take such further action as may be necessary to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory."


The reality is a bit more complicated than the sound bite. Sanders supported a non-binding Senate resolution that called on Gaddafi to resign his post in a peaceful, democratic transition of power. While the Senate passed the resolution by unanimous consent -- meaning no one actually voted on it -- Sanders was one of 10 cosponsors.

At the time, Sanders told the media he wanted Gaddafi out of power, but it might not be worth it if it required sustained U.S. military involvement.

We rate Clinton's statement Mostly True.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/22/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-voted-get-rid-/


Are we to believe that Sanders foolishly believed Gaddafi would step down peacefully? Is Bernie really that naive?




I noticed you skipped out on Somalia. what those lives don't matter either?
Or how about the attack on the Gaza strip he praised? Those lives not valuable either?

[Cheese Sandwich]

49. Hillary Clinton wouldn't even acknowledge that Palestinians are human beings.

She threatened to launch a first strike nuclear attack against Iran.

We couldn't pick a more horrible person to run for president.

[puffy socks]

50. Yeah right , that's why she negotiated peace talks between Netenyahu and Abbas

"We couldn't pick a more horrible person to run for president. "'

Yes we could...Trump or Bernie Sanders.

[Cheese Sandwich]

51. "Peace process" is/was fraudulent. Hillary Clinton has not and will not do anything to

pressure Israel to change the equation.

Trump is not an issue here. This forum is general discussion about the primaries.

[puffy socks]

52. Because cheese sandwich

says so

Your premise was that she wouldn't even acknowledge Palestinians as human. You were wrong.

Trump would make a worse president and since he is in the running I included it. You brought up the president, which includes the GOP candidate as well, or didn't you know that? Are you not are the GOP has a candidate running in the primaries as well?

If you only wanted to talk about Dem candidates you should have been more specific the GOP primaries aren't over, kiddo.

[Cheese Sandwich]

53. Because puffy socks

says so

Your claim was that Hillary tried for a settlement in the occupied territories. I simply pointed out that these efforts are fake.

Trump is not running in the Democratic primaries and that is the topic of the forum. You brought up Trump and he's not in the Dem primaries, or didn't you know that?

If you want to talk about Trump try another area, derp.

[scscholar]

35. And responsible for New Coke

These accusations are getting tiresome.

[Tarc]

6. Perhaps Sanders should drop out, given his support to fund all these wars?

[barrow-wight]

13. This just sounds insane.

[Cheese Sandwich]

20. why? What part of it is not true?

[barrow-wight]

22. Your part.

[baldguy]

21. It is.

[betsuni]

14. Oh no, here we go again.

Hillary should drop out because she ...

[wildeyed]

28. Can we recycle from the last time we did this?

[Beacool]

17. LOL!!!

[baldguy]

23. The GOP has spent a decade trying to pin W's failures on the Democrats. What are you helping them?

[Cheese Sandwich]

27. Why do they support these wars and shitty policies? Why are you defending it?

[baldguy]

32. Who said I was defending it? You're helping the Republicans spread lies

And deflect their responsibility for their disastrous failures.

[Cheese Sandwich]

39. More than just Republicans are responsible. Some Democrats are too.

Now is forum for focusing on Democrats. Another forum is for focusing on Republicans.

[baldguy]

54. Ah, the old RW lie that Democrats are the same as Republicans.

Republicans don't believe that, why do you?

[HassleCat]

30. She will drop out in 2020.

After a term as president, after failing to deliver on anything even remotely progressive, after alienating progressives, after getting us involved in some needless conflict, etc. a progressive candidate will defeat Hillary Clinton and take back our party in 2020. OK, that's not dropping out voluntarily, but I will celebrate just as joyously.

[Vattel]

31. She has the worst record possible for someone who wants to be CIC.

Unbelievable that this is the person the democratic party is offering to voters in November.

[grossproffit]

33. The train has come off the track.

[wildeyed]

34. Cheese Sandwich should drop out because

they helped create so much hot air that it is contributing to global warming.

[redstateblues]

36. Trump enablers everywhere on this site!

[Corey_Baker08]

40. What A Dumb Fucking Post!

[Cheese Sandwich]

43. Yours is really great though

Thanks for educating me.

[Starry Messenger]

41. I heard Shazam had a hand it in too.

[wildeyed]

46. Now we are getting into the spirit.

Hammer pants were there too. People are saying....

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Starry Messenger]

48. People will say we are showing our age, but I am old school.

[slipslidingaway]

44. Frontline tonight on the rise of ISIS. nt

[amborin]

45. Libya had turned toward the west, renounced nuclear weapons, provided health care, etc. to citizens