2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumExcusing Doxxing and Death Threats And Mob Behavior Is Disgusting
And chairs thrown is IRRELEVANT to that.
The Sanders supporters who made those threatening calls due to the doxxing were recorded.
Jezebel even called a few of them.
They don't deny what they did nor that they are Sanders supporters.
So the fact Sanders doesn't condemn this proves how unfit for leadership he is.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)obamanut2012
(26,049 posts)Any regular Jezebel reader knows that.
Your accusation is an epic fail.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)The only fail is you thinking I was talking about her.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Keep in mind that the MSM is desperate for an excuse to write off some very real issues with a distraction.
If one doesn't exist, they often are manufactured. I am not saying this one undoubtedly is, but to date I have not seen any evidence this supposed incident happened.
IS there any?
On the other hand- read this. This is pretty incredible that they have covered this up!
The potential impact of the World Trade Organization's general agreement on trade in services on health system reform and regulation in the United States
riversedge
(70,174 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)lol
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... funny to the bros...
Typical thugs
aspirant
(3,533 posts)get on it
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)As you well know
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)To divert attention from the election fraud committed in Nevada in Hillary's name.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Funny no official record of any of it
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,917 posts)Violent actions abso-fucking-lutely warrant arrest. I don't care who does it.
maybelline jombi
(8 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)harm's way by someone else.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)maybelline jombi
(8 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Solve the case Sherlock.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Thanks in advance!
You guys are simply trying to cover up election fraud, and it will bite your candidate and our party in the ass in the end. But you just don't care.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)either way your posts are just sad.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)Instead of used to threaten someone.
Why was the chair even picked up.
A threat is a threat.
procon
(15,805 posts)Your moral compass needs some serious adjustments if you're actually trying to defend violent people who engage acts of intimidation and threats to physically harm another person. It doesn't matter what object was going to be used as a weapon, it was the intention behind the act itself.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... vandalize buildings.
But they don't sell drugs so they don't need to be brought to "heel" :rolleyes:
aspirant
(3,533 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Response to KittyWampus (Reply #28)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LexVegas
(6,041 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Today a chair was 'raised'.
Tomorrow? Impure thoughts were thunk? lol
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Thug Life
THUG LIFE
1) acronym for "The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone". This acronyn was made popular by American rap artist 2Pac.
2) The Codes Of Thug Life where a set of codes written by 2Pac. The codes where designed to give order to the rise of gang violence and drug dealing. It made certain immoral actions, against the code which, would become a code of the street.
These codes where signed by heads from the Bloods and Crips at a peace treaty picnic called the Truc Picnic, in California in 1992.
3) Thug Life was a rap group formed by 2Pac which consisted of him and 4 others: Mopreme, Macadoshis, Big Syke, and The Rated R
After 2Pac was imprisoned on rape allegations the rappers would disband. Some would regroup after 2Pac's release and signing with Death Row Records and form the beginning of rap group called Tha Outlawz.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thug%20Life
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)"The chair was picked up into the air is violent enough"
Some of us here who fought and served find that amusing.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)xynthee
(477 posts)Have they filed police reports? If the police won't investigate, why not? How about some private investigators? We must figure out who these people are and find out if they're a credible threat. Just because someone says, "I'm a Bernie supporter and I'm going to cut you up into tiny bits," it doesn't prove he or she is a Bernie supporter.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)whom did they call and how is it they were all recorded and jezebel was able to "trace" their numbers or have them i.d.'d?
hmmmm. i call bullshit.
hillary and the dnc are thieves.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)NV Bernie supporters are uncharged angels.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Lying to cover it up is disgusting too.
Eko
(7,272 posts)is as bad as saying a chair that was picked up over the head is throwing it.
kiva
(4,373 posts)neither did happen, election fraud or throwing chairs.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)And that's what we have some people doing here at DU.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)it is not the same as being defrauded. and in no way is there any comparison to "blaming the victim".
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)nt
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)that you made such an insensitive comparison.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)not behave that way.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)as you say, hortensis. "blaming the victim" would have sufficed. the distinction to "rape" set me off.
Broward
(1,976 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)to come down on hillary's head and campaign.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Plus the wars that shall be.
DarkScholar82
(6 posts)that most people who support Bernie Sanders would endorse death threats, and I personally hope those who made the threats are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Threats made after the fact, however, do not excuse the blatant manipulation of the rules and abuse of power by the Nevada Democratic Party leadership, and I hope that Bernie Sanders and his supporters continue to call them on it.
BTW, the thrown chairs allegation is not irrelevant. If someone claims a certain type of violence took place, and then it becomes clear it didn't happen, it undermines their credibility.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the Nevada State Democratic Party of planning and directing the actions of its delegates at the convention and also of deliberately deceiving them into believing they were being cheated.
What you have posted about the NSDP is a furthering of those lies, which have been disproved and reported as disproved by numerous analysts.
Further the issue here isn't a chair being thrown, it is the egregious, ruthless and unprincipled behavior of the Sanders Campaign and their abuse of the trust of those who believed in them.
choie
(4,107 posts)releases a dropbox with the texts and messages to the public...and we are supposed to take it on face value that those calls were actually made by Sanders supporters? Cut the crap -- unfortunately for Clinton and her fans, David Brock's attempts at ratfucking on behalf of the campaign is well known, as is the DNC and state parties' collusion with Clinton. I am not believing anything about this bullshit story.
PufPuf23
(8,759 posts)More disgusting.
You are deliberately and dishonestly making a mountain out of a molehill to smear Sanders and antiwar liberals.
Some unbalanced individuals have bad behavior, they are very much a minority.
Consider that the antiwar liberals that support Sanders are the peace-loving hippies that are so convenient to punch and scape goat.
You may not be directly involved but are none the less a tool of a Machiavellian politic cascading through discourse.
You project. You find isolated seeds in the opposition and blow the seeds up to justify your own actions and smear the even though the actions and rhetoric better describe tactics initiated and characteristic of your side of the political chasm.
Defining and projecting a twisted reality is what neo-liberals and neo-conservatives do, it is what they are.
Some like Rove and Brock brag about their skill while demeaning their targets.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I can't wait for Hillary and her sycophants to speak out against that.
polly7
(20,582 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)wheres the links?
bigtree
(85,984 posts)Response to KittyWampus (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)But that is an invalid reason for demanding that one of two competing ideologies give up.
Sometimes sports fans riot, but we don't cancel all of sports and say we should only have one team from now on.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)because most of us share it. We do not believe that people should support what Bernie Sanders and his campaign did in Nevada, a worse but similar version to previous dishonest manipulations in other states. If I were a supporter and hoped to be able to continue, I would be writing him and making it clear that trying to manipulate us lying about cheating that never happened has to stop.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Hartmann had 2 eye witnesses on the show today
You can get the podcast and hear it.
Basically This is an attempt to swiftboat Bernies supporters to keep them out of the convention
One of the guests is DNC (and a Bernie Supporter) and she told the story of her father, also there, and a Clinton Supporter and a former Super Delegate who tore up his ballot and left because of the Crap that the Nevada Chair and Party was pulling
BOth guests said the convention was rigged
Boxer Trolling at the convention and doing what she can to enrage people.
https://www.facebook.com/seanaldenfitzgerald/videos/1734291036812104/
G_j
(40,366 posts)any proof they are Sanders supporters? No
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I'm pretty sure it was Bernie supporters.
G_j
(40,366 posts)you know where they can from?
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)G_j
(40,366 posts)the point?
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)You asked was there any proof it was Bernie supporters.
G_j
(40,366 posts)but the dude sounds nuts
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)you saw them with your own eyes all the way from your british flag.sure, you did.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I don't even understand your post. Are you alleging the people at the convention who were screaming abuse weren't Bernie supporters?
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)your statement - not mine.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)"At the convention? I'm pretty sure they were Bernie supporters."
Because, well, they WERE Bernie supporters. They were at the convention. In the room. Supporting Bernie.
I am still confused by your query.
TwilightZone
(25,451 posts)They pretended to be Sanders supporters at the local and county levels, and continued the charade until the state convention, where they acted like neanderthals to make the Sanders camp look bad.
Note: this is, of course, sarcasm. It is, however, also necessary to state that because it's nearly indistinguishable from assertions being made on DU and elsewhere.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Sincerely. It is not nearly as far out of the realm of possibility as anyone would hope, that some Bernie supporters on DU would make that argument.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)willful idiots and hostiles on "ignore" (I've finally had too much!) and had to back up and restore Twilight.
Btw, I've never put anyone on ignore before, much less dozens, and all of a sudden all these rational people who were hidden in the crowd are right there...talking to each other. Amazing. Had no idea there were so many, or how short and pleasant noxious threads would suddenly become with just the first half dozen toxic personalities gone.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)At least until this primary is over. I don't need the aggro. Thanks for the inspiration!
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)DU without the bile! I am totally leaving it like this until after the primaries. THANK YOU.
TwilightZone
(25,451 posts)I wrote it and thought, hmm, I should probably note that I'm joking.
I know what you mean, though. Without the sarcasm, it's just another day on DU.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)tends to fall within one, or a combination of these three categories:
1. Defend: Fraud! People were angry! Standing up for their rights! Activists! They deserved it! Cheaters!
2. Deflect: What about this? What about that? Prove it! Because Hillary! Because DWS! Where's the police report? Brock!! Wendell Pierce! War!! It was HER supporters!
3. Minimize: Picked up a chair! LOL! The chair! The cry baby chair! Big Deal, so what.... There was NO CHAIR! It was just words! PC Police!
I'm not seeing much in the way of; THIS WAS
SO WRONG...
frylock
(34,825 posts)Who the fuck do these people think they are?!!
I saw plenty. Pictures, text messages, audio, video, witness accounts, news stories.
"B****," "C***," death threats, doxing, etc...
Now what?
frylock
(34,825 posts)Then the police can track down the callers and arrest them. Isn't that typically what happens when a crime is committed?
That's what.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Check
Thanks...
frylock
(34,825 posts)Check.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Perfect.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Speaking of help, can you help me find those police reports?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)It wouldn't matter, anyway. It happened, and it was wrong. Period.
You want to try defend and minimize next? You have deflect down cold.
Carry on...
frylock
(34,825 posts)Where are they? Crimes were committed. Threatening calls were made across state lines. That falls under the category of terroristic threats. We need to get to the bottom of this and ensure these dangerous people are dealt with. So... were police reports ever filed?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)But the "must be brought to heel"
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)smeared the reputation of Sanders and then his failure to quickly address this incident has only added more smear. It is on Sanders and his supporters.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)There definitely was no actual violence, just false allegations of it made to juice up the story in the press. The closest to violence was someone grabbing someone elses credentials and the first someone giving chasing and grabbing it bad. And I don't know who was involved in that on either side.
I think the death threats and hostile messages are real, because they were received by one of Bernie's leading supporters too, in the days leading up to the Convention, and she chalked it up the culture of the Nevada Democratic Party. But she said the hostility was usually just directed at grassroots activists and not party leaders.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)both came up as belonging to the Nevada Democratic party the address I'm not sure about
John Poet
(2,510 posts)I see nothing wrong whatsoever with posting information about them which is already available to anyone who wants it.
Making threats of violence is of course out of bounds, but the individuals involved bear responsibility for their own actions.
Being made to receive complaints about your public actions, however, is part of having made yourself a public figure-- even if the calls are made to your home.
As Hillary supporters have been fond of telling me, 'Politics ain't beanbag'. Fine.
If they can't take the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)and conspiring to disenfranchise voters is disgusting. get your "disgusts" in order.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Can you please link to the story regarding the reports filed and the ongoing investigations?
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)is that it completely consistent with everything else that we've seen since it has been clear that Sanders lost.
He can't accept reality and keeps telling flat out lies to his fanatics to keep them fired up. Yeah...totally want him as president.
mcar
(42,287 posts)I'm disgusted to see victim blaming here.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Oh wait...doesn't fit the narrative. Carry on with the Dean Scream....I mean Vegas Riot.
merrily
(45,251 posts)So far, the only actual violence and arrest was her supporter.
riversedge
(70,174 posts)in general. Then had the gall to excuse it.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I don't believe he excused violence. I think that's pure spin from your side. Almost every post I've read today from a Hillary supporter has been a half truth at best.
TimPlo
(443 posts)I could not find any. Please don't tell me you are so gullible to just take what is said with out seeing some source of it.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Along with lying. If Hillary supporters ended that, it would be ethical and pro-democracy as well.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And making threats and scoffing at Boxer for saying she felt threatened are just wrong.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You think there weren't people throughout history that had the same attitude as you when there was kickback against corrupt systems of power?
Better strap in. Because if more people fall into poverty as I expect they will, it will get a fuckload uglier.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It pathetic as to how far they go. Just like the healthcare pic. Look at Bernie standing behind her as she leads and helps millions gain access to healthcare. I told you he was there. No... Look in the background.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)At least, that is what we are being told by news media.
Doing such a thing is inexcusable.
As for reports of violence within the caucus. The most I have seen was a chair lifted, and then dropped down again, not thrown. Much of it is hearsay, and no videos shown. I can imagine people shouting and getting mad, though in regards to actual violence, I did not see much of.
What is seen however is the process looking unfair and illegitimate, which is not being addressed other than saying, "No, it was fair". Unfortunately, there are people that I know who were actually there.
So, let me add something here from a friend of mine who I trust which is experience from someone who was there in Nevada.
When half the room began to contest the early morning motions and attempt to make counter motions from the floor, they turned down the lights and turned up the music, eventually showing a video about President Obama, all in an attempt to silence the voices of dissent. The rapid fire motions of the chair and subsequent disregard for any oppositional voices set the stage for a very contentious day.
Senator Barbara Boxer was slated to speak on behalf of Secretary Clinton as was Senator Nina Turner for Senator Sanders. Senator Boxer was not treated respectfully, nor did she handle herself with dignity as she touted Secretary Clinton's record, several dozen Sanders delegates booed her. In lieu of gracefully handling this like the pro-politician she is, she devolved into hurling insults at all the Sanders supporters in the room, 90% of whom were undeserving of her ire.
She called us childish, rude and unpatriotic. It was a perfect example of how when pushed, taking the low road of condescension and defensiveness leads to insulting an entire class of people, instead of deftly addressing the handful of delegates who were acting like assholes.
Senator Turner took the high road and started her speech by telling everyone to be more respectful and come together around the common goals we all share for a better country. She was incredibly inspiring and positive.
About 8 hours into the convention, the chair disappeared and was missing for over four hours. During this time, in lieu of pushing through the agenda and voting for all party positions and national delegates, the party kept delaying the process and hinting that we were running out of the time allotted for renting the casino's convention hall, yet they didn't respond by attempting to actually work through the remaining agenda items.
At first it seemed like incompetency, but it became clear that it was a calculated maneuver, after such a long day, most of the Clinton delegates had left, and the party didn't want Sanders delegates, most of whom had stayed, to influence platform votes or call for a standing recount.
On the issue of the recount: The National Democratic Party rules allow for a motion to perform a standing recount. We were already divided up in the room by Presidential preference, so this would have been an easy task. It was especially justified since after the realignment period, the delegate count was reported to be 1695 for Clinton and 1662 for Sanders. This slight delegate difference would result in a net difference of up to 4 national delegates in Clinton's favor (at-large and PLEOs). Every National Delegate counts.
About the official delegate count: there was a minority report, by a member of the committee tasked with verifying the delegate math, which the committee leaders tried to block from being presented publicly. It was quite a heated argument onstage between the chair and the committee member. When the floor delegates protested to allow her to speak, a sympathetic committee member used their standing to allow the report to be read. This minority report revealed that over 60 sanders delegates had been denied their delegate badges due to an "inability to find their information and confirm their eligibility." It stated in no uncertain terms that these delegates were not given the opportunity to prove their identity/eligibility and were summarily barred from the convention.
With the delegate math split so tight and due to the party chairs trying to block this information from the public, it became very clear that they wanted to keep the numbers in Clinton's favor. I'm not prone to conspiracy theories. this was straight up disenfranchisement of the barred delegates and a blatant move to tilt the national delegates to the party chair's preferred candidate. (not to mention that the convention was scheduled on the same day as UNLV's graduation, prohibiting an expected 150ish elected sanders delegates from attending.)
An interesting moment came when a delegate on the floor rose to speak about the proposed party platform, which we were all to vote on. For the most part, the platform was well-written, proposing very progressive priorities for the state party around gender, ethnic, sexual, economic and other demographic diversity. However, there was a small proposed amendment regarding state election priorities and the future of super-delegates. This person who stood to speak on the motion revealed that she is in fact one of the state super-delegates and moved to amend the state party platform to push for eliminating future national super-delegates. the convention floor LOVED this proposal, even getting cheers from some of the Clinton delegates. This did not go over well with the committee and the proposed amendment was ignored.
In another attempt to stall for time, so that the party could avoid any unwanted motions from the floor, they brought up candidates for congressional district 3 to give speeches about their candidacy. The move backfired. it turned out that two of the candidates are "Bernie-crats" and at the end of their speeches, one of them motioned for a recount. This caught the committee off-guard and the floor delegates began sitting in their chairs to be counted.
Within minutes, the state chair, who had vanished for over four hours stormed up onstage and like a 5-year old in a tantrum motioned to allow the party (instead of the convention delegates) to select the national delegates and to close the convention. She didn't even wait for the overwhelming "nay" vote from the floor, slammed the gavel down and stormed off the stage. Her fellow committee leaders were shocked. They just stood there stunned like the rest of us, wondering what the hell had just happened. The floor was LIVID. The party chair had clearly been backstage planning this and had the police ready, who escorted the committee members out and told everyone to leave or be arrested. End of convention.
There was no chair throwing or violence as has been repeatedly stated in various media reports. (there was a single, near-empty water bottle thrown at the end.) and there was no altercation with police, other than stern warnings to go home or be arrested. In fact, the head of security for the Paris hotel was extremely calm and patient with the room full of shocked and angry delegates. In fact, one of the candidates for congressional district 3 got up again to urge everyone to leave peacefully, promising that everything possible would be done to address what had happened.
Protests were scheduled at state democratic headquarters. This will likely have serious repercussions for the future of the state party, not to mention the thousands of delegates, staff and volunteers who were stripped of their voice and robbed of all our hard work and dedication. Clinton delegates left quite frustrated (both with the convention process and with a few dozen very rowdy/rude sanders delegates). Sanders delegates (the large majority of whom were very peaceful and committed to a fair process) left EXTREMELY angry.
Although I've been keenly aware of the state party establishment's bias for Clinton, I didn't expect such a blatant abuse of power and left sorely disappointed.
The "Bernie or Bust" movement just got a huge boost from the very officials elected to grow and keep the party united. Throughout the day, I spoke with many delegates about the importance of this election, especially in a swing state like Nevada, and it became clear that many Nevadans for Bernie would strongly consider holding their noses for Clinton in the general. after today, that is much less likely.
Also, the NV State delegation to the national convention is left in limbo, as we never got around to electing the delegates. (I was actually one of several dozen candidates for district and at-large national delegate. would have been cool to attend the national convention in Philly.) It's a shame, as so many dedicated Clinton and Sanders supporters spent months working tirelessly for their respective candidates only to have their hard work and hopes of representing their candidate at the national convention smashed by the disgraceful actions of a few corrupt party officials.
Multiple reports have come out that party chair, Roberta Lange, has since received a large volume of angry and often violent text and voice messages from angry Bernie supporters who published her personal phone number on social media. some of them were threats of violence to her and her family. this is completely unacceptable and those who made them should be shamed of themselves and held to account.
These despicable actions by Bernie bros on the internet in no way, however, excuse her own despicable behavior to those of us peacefully engaging in the political process. There will be an opportunity to join with other Bernie-crats to influence the NV Democratic central committee and hopefully ensure the ouster of the party chair. She's not the only problem, but her shameful abuse of power demands that she be held accountable.
After all is said and done, I will keep volunteering for senator sanders and help get out the vote in other remaining states. I will also be helping the campaigns of some of the truly progressive congressional candidates in Nevada. as disgusted as I feel after this trampling on the democratic process, the political revolution has never been about just the white house. I made a short speech during the congressional district break out, where I urged everyone to channel their passions and keep it going for local and state races. that's where real change is going to begin..."
Holy Heck, that was much longer than I expected...
I apologize.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)continuing to post them once they've been debunked is even more disgusting.