she never met a war she didn't like, but bernistas love violence ?

[elehhhhna]

Wtf?

[YouDig]

1. You'd think pacifists wouldn't be so into throwing chairs and death threats, right?

[elehhhhna]

3. if shouting is violent,

Hrc is a serial killer.

[YouDig]

4. Death threats are violence. Chair throwing is violence. Calling Hillary a "serial killer" is insane

[Skwmom]

6. And NO Evidence that ANY Bernie Supporter did any of this has been provided.

[YouDig]

7. There's lots of evidence. In all the major papers. They even called some of the Bernie people

back who did the death threats.

[tk2kewl]

10. there are a lot of stories in the papers...

only evidence i have seen is that one guy picked up a chair and another made him put it down...

keep catapulting the propaganda

[YouDig]

13. Only in Bernopia is a story reported in all the major papers "propaganda".

[tk2kewl]

34. if you say so...

ever heard of the Iraq War?

be afraid of the mushroom cloud... the section diagrams of mountains with complex bunkers, built-in transportation and weapons storage areas...

believe what you want with or without evidence, but i like evidence

[uponit7771]

60. Yeap, "the papers" are part of the establishment too... lol... you guys are comedy gold

[tk2kewl]

62. ask Judith Miller about what crap "the papers" are capable of pushing

[Optimism]

14. No chairs were thrown.

Period.

And what don't you get about the media being in the bag for Hillary from the get-go ?!

[YouDig]

16. All the major newspapers disagree with you.

[TCJ70]

18. All the video of the event disagrees with you...

...I'll take video over print any day.

[YouDig]

20. No it doesn't. Only tiny parts of the riot were caught on video.

[TCJ70]

21. The video doesn't disagree with you? So you found it...

...the video of the chair being thrown? Not lifted. Thrown?

[YouDig]

23. You think that 10 second video covered everything that happened at the whole riot?

Even for #bernielogic, that's pretty bad.

[TCJ70]

25. OK, so you don't have it...and the video still disagrees with you.

It's OK. I'll wait for you to produce the proof. I'm very patient.

[YouDig]

28. The proof is the widespread reports in all the newspapers, based on eyewitnesses.

You can't seriously think that one 10 second video can prove things that didn't happen during the whole event. Can you?

I'm guessing you ignore that question.

[TCJ70]

30. It was an hours long convention. Of course one clip doesn't cover the whole thing...

...but surely a casino would have video of it and turned it over to the proper authorities should the riot and chair throwing you're promoting actually happened. How many people have smart phones in their pockets now? If the non-chair throwing video can make it to the internet this fast, surely the one of actual chair throwing would have moved faster.

[YouDig]

33. Good. We will see what video the casino releases when that happens. As of now, there are credible

reports from eyewitnesses that have appeared in all the major newspapers.

It's a big convention, and it's crazy to think that someone had a cell phone camera covering every part of it the whole time. Of course not, there are huge gaps. It's just coincidence that that one guy who threatened to throw the chair got caught on camera. If the camera was pointed somewhere else for those few seconds, or if it happened somewhere else, there would be no video and Bernie people would be denying that even that could possibly happen.

The denial game is silly.

[TCJ70]

36. Yeah, but you can't go around saying it DEFINITELY happened with no proof...

...The original report by Ralston, which everything else was based on, is questionable since he hasn't named his sources and said he wasn't there personally to see any chair throwing. He was pretty much walking it back last night.

[YouDig]

40. It's as credible as any other widely reported fact, and there's no reason to doubt it other than

conspiracy theories from people who have a strong interest in having it not be believed.

The idea that Ralson is questionable since he hasn't named his sources is totally nuts. This isn't some government leak, it's a straightforward question of what people saw. He talked to people there, and multiple of them said they saw chairs thrown. And he didn't walk back anything, that was a lie someone posted who failed to neglect that he said he had multiple eyewitnesses. The dishonesty of the people trying to "debunk" this is another reason not to believe the conspiracy theories. He never claimed he saw it, he just claimed it happened, which is what reporters do when they have found enough eyewitnesses saying the same thing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. There is a lesson here for reporters

and one that they will continue not to learn... people have video cameras on them all the time. So if you say something on the air, or print, you'd better be sure that either there is corroborating video, or that you will be proven to be wrong sooner or later,

There is no need for malice, but this is one that I am utterly conscious off when I cover events. There is somebody else in the same room, recording it as well.

[TCJ70]

44. It's just unfortunate...

...that you have posters like the one I'm going back and forth with (for the last time) that will buy printed news over video recordings. I just can't wrap my head around that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I can, that is why the propaganda in 2003 worked so well

by the way, these days when we see something like what it is being purported to have happened, that there is no evidence off, I tend to get people on record if I can... and my recorder is running at all times during fun city council meetings for example. Most are just snoozers unless you like procedure, which I happen to enjoy.

We had one situation where we almost had plastic cuffs and pepper spray come out. And myself and the channel ten reporter waded into that mess. We both just kept shooting. It makes for good photos and video. Neither of us could get much from those who were angry, so both of us used the recording and transcribed some of it, and we did learn nobody was arrested (which there should be arrests records if people actually threw a chair, or two or three, that is assault), but people were indeed fined for disrupting the peace.

Our local KPBS reporter found the door out though, She admitted that this was too hot for her. So quietly we explained to her why heels are not a good idea.

So I know how out of control a political meeting can get... or rather hot. Passions do fly.

[YouDig]

45. Tell it to the NYT, maybe the'll be impressed and hire you with that profound insight.

[elehhhhna]

58. yes the 5 owners of all the msm agree

What's new? They're in the bag for the corporate candidate.

[YouDig]

59. There it is! The media conspiracy theory! Very useful, that one.

[NWCorona]

8. Until those calls can be attributed I'm going with "Correct the Record"

[YouDig]

11. Of course! In Bernopia, David Brock is behind everything. Facts are easily disposed of.

[NWCorona]

19. No Brock isn't all reaching but this is right up his alley

And actually I have more facts on my side.

[phleshdef]

12. There was no chair throwing. This has been proven and you know it.

You are lying.

[YouDig]

15. You're kidding, right? It's reported in all the major newspapers.

I get that in your world, the newspapers are all part of an anti-Bernie conspiracy, but try to examine this from a reality perspective for a minute.

[phleshdef]

24. No I'm not kidding and you are lying.

There was no chair throwing. There were police there. There were cameras all over the place. If there had been chair throwing, arrests would have been made and we would have video of it. PERIOD. This is me dropping the mic on your ass with common sense. Deal with it.

Some media outlets went with the rumor without substantiation. You act as if that hasn't happened before. You know better.

[YouDig]

29. It was reported in all the major newspapers. For that to be a David Brock doing, it would have to

be quite a conspiracy. Sure, using #bernielogic, you can convince yourself that not all the papers lied in order to make Bernie look bad, and also all the people making the death threats were David Brock plants, and anything else. I get it, there's no limit to what you can deny.

But let's try reality for a bit, shall we?

[phleshdef]

32. I don't give 2 fucks what you suggest was reported in "all the major newspapers".

That doesn't even BEGIN to become an argument.

Produce arrest reports and video. Rebut all the people who were there that have publicly came forward and said otherwise. Failure to do so will be the final confirmation that you are full of shit.

[YouDig]

37. Of course, because they are part of the conspiracy. But if you drop the conspiracy theory

then what is reported widely in credibly newspapers is very important.

And you're welcome to your conspiracies, but I'm not going to pretend that something so widely reported, with eyewitnesses including the Chair of the NV Convention herself, is a lie simply because you have some conspiracy about the media being out to get Bernie.

[phleshdef]

38. Shoddy reporting isn't a conspiracy. Its something that happens.

The fact is, you can't provide a SHRED of evidence to support your claim. Not one single shred. This is why you lose the argument.

[YouDig]

43. You only think it's "shoddy" because it is to your political advantage to have it not believed.

The fact that all the major newspapers saw fit to print it is ample evidence. Jon Ralston reported multiple eyewitness reports. I only "lose" the argument if credible news sources are doubted based on a wild conspiracy theory that the evil corporate media is out to get Bernie.

[phleshdef]

46. Ralston has already been busted as making shit up.

Its shoddy because its shoddy.

You are completely unable to refute the following:

1. If chair throwing had occurred there would be video
2. If chair throwing had occurred, there would be arrests

The corporate media is out to pursue controversy wherever they could find it. If Hillary supporters had been lied about in this fashion, I would defend them as well.

You. Lose.

As it turned out, Ralston finally admitted last night that he hadn’t seen this himself but was relying especially on local reporter Andrew Davey. Davey first said he had still frames showing the chair throwing which he would publish. He has not produced the stills in question, but did retweet a still image of a chair held high that was initially posted on Reddit. I spoke with the person who posted it to Reddit and confirmed that it was grabbed from the video now widely seen which shows that other Sanders supporters quickly took away the chair in question. I asked Davey by Twitter if he still had photos to publish, then criticized him for retweeting the Reddit image instead. He blocked me.

In spite of the fact that the whole thing was filmed live from multiple angles, “the revolution will be periscoped” as Ralston snarked on Twitter, no one has any images or video of even a single chair, let alone chairs plural, being thrown.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/18/the-faux-fracas-in-nevada-how-a-reporters-pack-of-lies-ran-riot-in-the-fact-averse-media/


Enjoy being wrong.

[YouDig]

47. "It is shoddy because it is shoddy." Now that's some #bernielogic

We live in different worlds. In mine something widely reported in all the major papers with multiple eyewitnesses is credible. To you, a conspiracy theory about "corporate media" and some totally unjustifiable assumptions about what "would have happened" are enough to deny any fact, no matter how well established.

So there it is. But I'm not going to stop talking about something that happened because of your conspiracy theories.

[phleshdef]

49. There were not multiple eyewitnesses. You are lying again.

In your world, you can lie and THINK you can get away with it. I'm not going to let you though. Get use to it.

You throwing around the word "conspiracy" is laughable. I don't think there was a conspiracy. There was one reporter who told one lie and the MSM went with it. Thats not a conspiracy. But I'm sure you'll continue to throw the word around because you don't have anything resembling an actual argument. I've obliterated your claims into a pile of smoking ash already. All you can do now is repeat yourself and run around in circles, throwing around meaningless insults like "#bernielogic" and hope and pray that I'll eventually let you off the hook.

Well you are in for a big disappointment. I don't tire when taking on liars. Again. Get use to it.

[YouDig]

51. There were, Ralston reported multiple people saw it on MSNBC, and Roberta Lange, who endorsed

Bernie Sanders, also said she saw chairs thrown. And whoever the NYT, WP, AP and everyone else talked to was enough for every single one of them to decide it was fit to print.

There's no way out of it except for a big anti-Bernie conspiracy. You think that since this is the internet, and you're a Bernie supporter, then I have to play in your world of crazy conspiracy theories where everyone is a corporatist out to get Bernie.

Sorry. I don't play that. I deal with reality. If you think you can teach the NYT about reporting, take it up with them. But you can't, you're just a Bernie supporter on the internet talking nonsense. It's the same as the claims that the death threats were David Brock trolls. Yeah, I'm sure that the Bernie supporters here all believe that, but I don't have to even pretend that it's not totally stupid, because it is.

[arcane1]

53. "I deal with reality."

Is this the same New York Times that promoted every one of Bush's lies about Iraq?

[phleshdef]

54. You continue to make up lies.

Ralston admitted he relied on one local political reporter for the chair story and that reporter could only produce the one still image of the one guy that picked up a chair, the one in the video we've all seen.

Bernie never said chairs were thrown. You are lying again.

Its not an anti-Bernie conspiracy, its shitty reporting. I'm smart enough to know the difference, you aren't.

I don't believe everyone is a corporatist out to get Bernie. You are making shit up again because you lack an argument.

You don't deal with reality. You deal in smut peddling lies on the internet.

And are you saying the New York Times has never gotten it wrong? Are you saying these outlets have never retracted anything?

I never claimed death threats were made by David Brock trolls. If someone said that, take that up with them. I'm not your fucking huckleberry. You can't just take everything every Bernie supporter is saying and claim I said it. You are arguing with ME. I know you are furiously spittling all over your keyboard right about now, but please, try to maintain enough composure that you can keep track of which conversation you are having and with whom.

[YouDig]

55. Ralston said "multiple eyewitnesses" on MSNBC. Roberta Lange, a Bernie supporter, said

"chairs were thrown" on MSNBC. These are not lies, it was Hardball last night, I don't know if it's on the web or not, but it happened. If you think I'm making up the fact that they said that, well then there's not much reason to go on.

I absolutely never said anything about what Bernie said. I have no idea where you got that from, Bernie wasn't there, how would he know.

You think it's "shitty reporting", but there's no evidence of that. Like I said, every major news outlet has reported it. Even in a Nation article, which endorsed Bernie.

Every time someone wants to deny a widely reported fact, they always claim "shitty reporting" and then point to some other time that the NYT got something wrong. I guess you don't see the flaw in that. Here it is. Yes, sometimes they get things wrong, but it is rare, because they have standards and editors and a whole process to ensure they get things right. And so "sometimes they get things wrong" is not a strong argument about any particular story being wrong. If you look at 100 or 1000 stories, probably one of them will be wrong, but the odds that the story that you really want to be wrong is that 1-in-100 wrong story are low.

On the other hand, Bernie people on the internet get things wrong all the time. Most of the time, as far as I can tell. There are no standards. The only standard is if it's good for Bernie, it's true, and if not, it's a lie. And the only reason I see to disbelieve the NYT here is because Bernie people on the web say it didn't happen.

You're right, you aren't responsible for other people thinking the death threats were by Brock Trolls. That's me drawing a connection between two conspiracy theories related to the same event that I've argued about over and over and over. Glad you don't agree with that one. Maybe go talk to some of your Bernie friends who do, they'll probably take guidance about how dumb that is from you more warmly than from me.

[phleshdef]

56. Ralston admitted he heard that from one local reporter.

Also, in post #51, you clearly said "Bernie Sanders, also said she saw chairs thrown.". Go back and read your own bullshit since you obviously can't keep up with it.

There is evidence that it was shitty reporting because the ENTIRE convention was filmed from MULTIPLE angles and no chairs were thrown EVER. Until you can produce evidence aside from "well Ralston said X", then you have absolutely nothing. It never happened.

[YouDig]

57. Go read post 51. "Roberta Lange, who endorsed Bernie Sanders, also said she saw chairs thrown"

Now, I want to think that you understand how commas work, and that the pronoun "she" refers to a woman, but I also want to think that you are not just flatly dishonest. I'm having trouble squaring the two. Help me out here, which is it?

I never heard that Ralston got it from a local reporter, but if he did, and that local reporter is credible, so be it. Being a local reporter doesn't make you an automatic liar, or mean you don't have journalistic standards. I saw him yesterday on MSNBC confirming that there were multiple eyewitnesses, and I also saw Roberta Lange, who is a Bernie supporter, confirm the chairs thrown. And I've seen it in all the major, most reputable papers nationwide. And nothing I've seen has caused me to doubt the decisions of the reporters and editors at all those newspapers.

Your claim that the entire convention was filmed is totally without base. It's a huge convention, it went on for hours, and there's no chance whatsoever that cellphone cameras captured every or even a small fraction of the opportunities for chairs to be thrown. I have a hard time believing that you even think that. It takes three seconds to pick up a chair and throw it, if the camera is not already pointed there, it gets missed.

Also, there were other things reported to have happened that weren't caught on any video I've seen. When Barbara Boxer was speaking, Bernie people covered up the TV cameras so that she wouldn't be shown on the big screens. Is there video of that? Maybe, I haven't seen it? Do you think that was a made up lie also? People said that death threats were chanted at the convention, which in light of the voicemails is highly believable, but I only saw people called a "bitch". Do you think that was also a made up lie?

[Arugula Latte]

64. As the Thmpson Twins said in the 80s:

Lies lies lies yeah.

[polly7]

2. That's exactly what I was thinking.

I've been trashed here for bringing up her disastrous and ongoing foreign policy decisions that have caused so much horrible damage - yet someone picked up a chair. The cognitive dissonance is stunning.

[Actor]

5. Donald Trump and Karl Rove may not be working together, yet, but the Democratic

party sure is working for them with all this unrest.

[QC]

9. In fairness, she did oppose Vietnam.

That war could potentially affect her peers, after all, especially once student deferments ended and affluent kids started getting drafted.

It's a different situation now, though. There's little to no chance that any of her buds from Goldman and the Hamptons might end up in combat.

[msongs]

17. as the corpses pile up there is bernie every year voting to fund the MIC nt

[Ferd Berfel]

22. What violence? harsh words?

THis bullshit has been debunked from several different angles already.

Cut it out!

[Joob]

26. Hillary is not campaigning against Bernie anymore, just his supporters. Bad move Hillary.

[MariaThinks]

27. what an ignorant statement

[Scootaloo]

31. It's projection

Seeing the constant, nonstop, bloodshot rage from Clinton supporters day after day after day? I'm glad she's in the lead, 'cause they genuinely make me afraid for what they would do if she weren't.

[themaguffin]

35. Yawn.

[felix_numinous]

39. Hold up a mirror

to them and they still don't get projection.

[arendt]

50. That,s because they are vampires :-) n/t

[My Good Babushka]

42. well, we are primates

It is only very recently we've been able to change leadership of a tribe with a minimum of violence. There's something atavistic about an election, and there's always a chance our civilized nature will come undone. There is one candidate who has been able to study violent regime change up close, so to act like Hillary is some Holly Hobby in all of this, who would never be so disrespectful or condone the slightest of rude acts is laughably disingenuous.

[Maedhros]

52. I can only laugh at them at this point.

So, for all the Hillary supplicants, this is for you:

[JudyM]

61. Kinda like her "oh no!" position on guns but she sells more arms to foreign countries than any other

SOS. Of course, she got paid more for that.

Guns when it suits her.

[Arugula Latte]

63. Don't you know chalk writing on buildings is so

much worse than hundreds of thousands of maimed and slaughtered innocents?