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davidlynch

(644 posts)
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:32 AM May 2016

How to Increase Bernie’s Negatives

Put yourself in the shoes of David Brock. You have a tough job. You have to somehow increase Bernie’s negatives. Your problem is that your standard tools, like opposition research, are not producing any actionable intelligence on Bernie. In an ironic twist, the candidate you need to take down doesn’t have many skeletons in the closet.

But David Brock is a professional, and he’s teaching us a magic trick: if you can’t move the candidate’s negatives directly, you can still affect the numbers indirectly by adjusting the negatives of the candidate’s colleagues or supporters.

What this teaches us is that *any* candidate’s negatives can be affected. All it takes is money and coordination. You need to be able to rely on a handful of journalists and pundits to stick to the talking points, and they have to be pretty skilled at acting. Even if they aren’t particularly good at acting, at minimum they must stick to the script like a magnet, just keep saying the same thing.

I’m sorry to report that Brock’s efforts have had the desired effect. In my case, it is my brother-in-law: he was explaining to me that Bernie is imploding, stressing the violent behavior of the “Bernie Bros” in Las Vegas. I calmly explained that the empirical evidence doesn’t jibe with the narrative, but he would have no part of it; he dismissed my analysis as a conspiracy theory.

As a progressive, I am a big fan of peace and justice. I think we all are. So it is very painful to and unnatural to take my emotions out of the picture and say touché to David Brock. While I strongly oppose his goals, I have to admit that his team has done an amazing job. He surprised me by doing something that is very difficult: he knocked Bernie off of his pedestal.

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How to Increase Bernie’s Negatives (Original Post) davidlynch May 2016 OP
The Sanders supporters accused of abusive and violent behavior are happy to take credit for it. Renew Deal May 2016 #1
What VIOLENT behavior? Keep spreading the lies. It's what you do. BillZBubb May 2016 #7
Don't take my word for it. Renew Deal May 2016 #9
No worry about that. I wouldn't take your word for anything. BillZBubb May 2016 #10
I know Renew Deal May 2016 #16
Really easy to spread the truth...WHEN IT'S ON VIDEO! anotherproletariat May 2016 #20
Those Brockettes keep dancing that lie..happily. MaeScott May 2016 #43
Violent behavior? Lies AgingAmerican May 2016 #14
OK, lets go with what we can agree on. There have been threats of violence by Sanders supporters. Renew Deal May 2016 #18
It's all lies AgingAmerican May 2016 #19
So who sent those texts? Renew Deal May 2016 #21
You're one of those men who don't believe that verbally abused women experience violence, anotherproletariat May 2016 #22
Verified violence by Hill folks goes unmentioned , don't you know. MaeScott May 2016 #44
There will be blowback, now that the "chair throwing" lie has been outed. lagomorph777 May 2016 #2
every scandalous lie against Sanders, every scandalous truth about the Clintons reddread May 2016 #5
How has this been outed? I must have missed something. anotherproletariat May 2016 #25
There was no video, because there was no melee lagomorph777 May 2016 #40
So all those people on TV yesterday were lying? anotherproletariat May 2016 #41
Yes, precisely: all those people were lying. Hundreds of Hillary supporters and not one video? lagomorph777 May 2016 #42
As I see it negatives abound everywhere and they only increase. gordianot May 2016 #3
I love that actions Sanders supporters were recently standing up for.... NCTraveler May 2016 #4
Seriously! auntpurl May 2016 #15
There is no 'The way they acted' AgingAmerican May 2016 #33
It's really not. auntpurl May 2016 #35
Brock is a Rove disciple. They take an opponent's strength BillZBubb May 2016 #6
I understand how you feel, I think it is a defense mechanism... davidlynch May 2016 #11
Back to your OP.... Jennylynn May 2016 #34
Bernie has knocked Bernie off his pedestal.. beachbumbob May 2016 #8
No, you've been fooled by a corporatist, money grubber. BillZBubb May 2016 #12
Lol...you all been fooled by a carny.... beachbumbob May 2016 #17
Brockettes tap dancing for their 30 pieces. MaeScott May 2016 #46
Corporate! Corporate! Corporate! kstewart33 May 2016 #23
So, so true. But he is going to go off with a million dollar book deal, leaving us to pick up the anotherproletariat May 2016 #39
They have nothing on Bernie, and it's the total campaign of Hillary - negativity! ViseGrip May 2016 #13
Bernie could move beyond this very quickly. kstewart33 May 2016 #24
Apologizing for the strawman of Clinton/Brock's invention isn't a good solution. lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #31
I agree, he should keep condemning the cheating in Nevada pengu May 2016 #32
Sanders is quite capable doing it all on his own. Oh, that's right, it is everyone else fault, he seabeyond May 2016 #26
This has hurt both camps -- Bernie's and Hillary's. The proof will be in the pudding. KPN May 2016 #27
Listening to these amoral fools wring their hands about "Bernie damaging the party"... lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #28
How? Ask Hillary! closeupready May 2016 #29
Brock is such an amazing boogeyman at this point. Is there nothing he can't do!?! Blue_Adept May 2016 #30
He has enough money, media presence and motive. So he's using it. MaeScott May 2016 #47
A million dollars bought a million trolls Blue_Adept May 2016 #48
Kudos to the bully. Kip Humphrey May 2016 #36
It's really not that hard to have Bernie Supporters look bad...they do it all by thermselves Sheepshank May 2016 #37
The kitchen sink writ large. Cali has HRC on edge. MaeScott May 2016 #38
Bernie Sanders knocked himself off the pedastal by going negative asuhornets May 2016 #45
Because of your BIL? No. Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #49

Renew Deal

(81,847 posts)
1. The Sanders supporters accused of abusive and violent behavior are happy to take credit for it.
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:36 AM
May 2016

Has there been a single case where someone has been behaving abusively and caught impersonating a Sanders supporter?

Most of these guys are happy to take credit

Rolling Stone spoke to several of the men who sent Lange angry, menacing text messages to find out what was going through their heads as they pelted a stranger with epithets and threats, both veiled or explicit, to her and her family's safety, and to find out if — as some diehard Sanders supporters have suggested — they were actually Clinton campaign operatives out to smear Bernie.

They were not. All of the men we spoke to were genuine Sanders supporters, most with well-documented histories online of feeling the Bern. (Although only their first names are used below and their phone numbers have been redacted, we verified all of their identities.)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/pro-bernie-trolls-on-why-they-harassed-nevadas-democratic-chair-20160518


I wonder how many post here.

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
20. Really easy to spread the truth...WHEN IT'S ON VIDEO!
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:11 PM
May 2016

Back to canvassing for Hillary in an hour. The video on my phone worked wonders yesterday, so I'm bringing my iPad today!

Renew Deal

(81,847 posts)
21. So who sent those texts?
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:11 PM
May 2016

And who did Rolling Stone speak with? And who craftily created the Bernie supporting online profiles that Rolling Stone discovered and the perpetrators admitted to just so they can be used for the Nevada convention?

Maybe everyone else isn't lying.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
2. There will be blowback, now that the "chair throwing" lie has been outed.
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:38 AM
May 2016

and it will not be pretty, because it's hitting the same week as some pretty bad e-mail news.

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
5. every scandalous lie against Sanders, every scandalous truth about the Clintons
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:46 AM
May 2016

it all adds up, and they will not be able to contain the result.

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
25. How has this been outed? I must have missed something.
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:19 PM
May 2016

As of yesterday, there were dozens of people saying chairs were thrown, and then a video that showed one chair being raised, but not thrown. This did not negate the eye witness accounts of other incidents. Was there something else that came out? A video of the entire melee, start to finish?

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
40. There was no video, because there was no melee
Thu May 19, 2016, 05:06 PM
May 2016

With hundreds of cameras in the room (cellphones and surveillance) that is proof enough

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
41. So all those people on TV yesterday were lying?
Thu May 19, 2016, 06:27 PM
May 2016

I'll continue to use the video while canvassing, and let the people decide for themselves.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
42. Yes, precisely: all those people were lying. Hundreds of Hillary supporters and not one video?
Mon May 23, 2016, 09:57 AM
May 2016

It's ludicrous to imagine that all those highly motivated videographers wouldn't have produced any video if something had actually happened.

gordianot

(15,234 posts)
3. As I see it negatives abound everywhere and they only increase.
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:41 AM
May 2016

Negatives work. Poor deluded codger Ronald Reagan would be laughed off the stage if they tried his fluff piece "Morning in America" today.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
4. I love that actions Sanders supporters were recently standing up for....
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:44 AM
May 2016

Must now be some type of Brock gimmick.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
15. Seriously!
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:01 PM
May 2016

Two days ago it was a-ok the way Bernie supporters acted because they'd been so wronged and were so righteously angry. But now it's all a Brock ploy.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
35. It's really not.
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:05 PM
May 2016

They screamed the place down, creating an atmosphere of hostility and volatility. They sent death threats. They released a woman's personal information on the internet. None of that is a lie.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
6. Brock is a Rove disciple. They take an opponent's strength
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:48 AM
May 2016

and through manipulation of the media and constant repetition of distortions, turn that strength into a question mark.

For instance, on civil rights, Bernie is probably the one white candidate in our history who really was fully involved in the civil rights movement from its early stages. At the time, Hillary was marching for Goldwater. Hillary needed the AA vote because she got reamed by it in 2008. So, Brock went to work.

They started with the Capehart lie about Bernie not being in a civil rights protest photograph on his website. Pretty mild stuff, but using the friendly WaPo, they blew that up into a huge "issue". Of course it was Bernie, but enough doubt was sown to proceed. The next step was to get Hillary's AA supporters like civil rights icon John Lewis to cast doubt on Bernie's involvement. The final step was to get AA Hillary supporters to belittle and mock Bernie's true claim that he "marched with MLK". This was a classic swiftboating ala Rove (remember Kerry's very real Purple Heart medals?). And it worked.

You have grudging admiration for Brock. I have nothing but contempt for him and those who employ him

davidlynch

(644 posts)
11. I understand how you feel, I think it is a defense mechanism...
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:57 AM
May 2016

to try to look at what is really going on clearly. Instead of responding emotionally to this grave injustice, I can look at this with little emotion, just the next turn of events, one of many. Yesterday was bad for Bernie, but there are going to be good days ahead. There are going to be twists where the anvil drops on Hillary's head as well. Try to remain objective and focus on the best thing you can do to help Bernie today, whether it be writing another OP or making a contribution. And know in your heart that there will be a lot of justice ahead if we're patient.

Jennylynn

(696 posts)
34. Back to your OP....
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:48 PM
May 2016

I don't think your bil was ever going to vote for Bernie anyway. People that are that unreasonable....

 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
8. Bernie has knocked Bernie off his pedestal..
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:54 AM
May 2016

His weak leadership, his disdain for democrats and our process and his inability to take control and responsibility for the mob he has created.....liberals are now recognizing what he is....and always has been...an angry old socialist....most of us democrats really never been fooled by this man...

 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
17. Lol...you all been fooled by a carny....
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:06 PM
May 2016

Problem is you don't know how badly....the wheels feel off and sanders is now nothing more than spiteful old socialist unwilling to be accountable or responsible....supporters are leaving in droves...and suffering the attacks from bernies mob...

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
39. So, so true. But he is going to go off with a million dollar book deal, leaving us to pick up the
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:11 PM
May 2016

pieces of his mob. Hopefully they will all go back into the holes they came out of. There is never going to be a viable candidate who agrees with their pure, uncompromising ideology.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
24. Bernie could move beyond this very quickly.
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:18 PM
May 2016

Simply go before the press, condemn what happened in Nevada and issue a call for civility to all of his supporters.

That would do it, and it would be good for his campaign.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
31. Apologizing for the strawman of Clinton/Brock's invention isn't a good solution.
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:24 PM
May 2016

The solution is to ratfuck right back. Or, if your stomach can't handle their degree of douchebaggery, to simply tell the truth.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
26. Sanders is quite capable doing it all on his own. Oh, that's right, it is everyone else fault, he
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:19 PM
May 2016

is picked on, life is unfair, CHEATING.

Sanders is creating this. All by himself. Well, his supporters are helping.

KPN

(15,637 posts)
27. This has hurt both camps -- Bernie's and Hillary's. The proof will be in the pudding.
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:20 PM
May 2016

At this point, it no longer matters who "started it" -- even if I have my opinions on that.

Bernie's campaign has been damaged by this. The Democratic Party has been damaged by this. Bernie will pay sooner. The Democratic Party will pay later -- maybe by November, but certainly 2020.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
28. Listening to these amoral fools wring their hands about "Bernie damaging the party"...
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:22 PM
May 2016

... in the very next breath is really too much.

MaeScott

(878 posts)
47. He has enough money, media presence and motive. So he's using it.
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:05 AM
May 2016

But if she were a good candidate, it wouldn't be necessary. Her negatives from this lying mess will take a hit, and not upwards.

Blue_Adept

(6,393 posts)
48. A million dollars bought a million trolls
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:37 AM
May 2016

It's an impressive use of funds! I can almost see one inside my keyboard as I type!

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
37. It's really not that hard to have Bernie Supporters look bad...they do it all by thermselves
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:07 PM
May 2016

look through this thread and see the heartless responses. It's not hard to view this through the eyes of those that see their callous need to hurt those already hurting because their "message" is more important than the fellow man.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1982836

MaeScott

(878 posts)
38. The kitchen sink writ large. Cali has HRC on edge.
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:11 PM
May 2016

These New Dem/DLC have no love for progressives , see Rahm Emanuel. More of same.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
45. Bernie Sanders knocked himself off the pedastal by going negative
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:03 AM
May 2016

Saying the system is rigged and that's why he is losing..Suing the DNC after his people viewed Clinton's voter database. Going after DWS, and the list goes on.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
49. Because of your BIL? No.
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:44 AM
May 2016

Bernie's campaign is more for thinking supporters. They know how to weigh differing reports and determine what's true.

Hillary's campaign is more for those who blindly follow. Your BIL sounds like one of hers from the get go.

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