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KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:08 PM May 2016

A simple explaination why Sanders did not do better in the primary (it ain't because of fraud)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/us/politics/bernie-sanders-doesnt-kiss-babies-that-a-problem.html?_r=0

For a candidate who has inspired the most impassioned followers since Barack Obama in 2008, Mr. Sanders is surprisingly impersonal, even uninterested, in one-on-one exchanges — the sort of momentary encounters in which a candidate can show warmth and humility by gripping every open palm.

He rarely drops by diners or coffee shops with news cameras in tow, unlike most politicians. He hardly ever kisses babies, aides say, and does not mingle much at fund-raisers. To Mr. Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont, political schmoozing is a phony business, and anathema to his total focus on weighty issues.


Clinton was mocked for her smaller events, but those sort of events are critical to winning the game.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-gambles-choosing-small-events-over-huge-rallies-n575311

Take the New York primary, for example. In the week leading up to the vote, Sanders held three huge events in Manhattan, Brooklyn and the Bronx.

Clinton instead focused on retail stops and smaller rallies. On the night of Sanders' Washington Square Park mega-event, Clinton spoke to about 1,000 people at a public housing community center in the Bronx.

Ironically enough, Sanders did not win any of the boroughs in which he held his largest gatherings.


Both these articles are worth reading, because they demonstrate a difference that I think as been a major factor. Clinton's retail style politics have done her a lot of good.
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A simple explaination why Sanders did not do better in the primary (it ain't because of fraud) (Original Post) KingFlorez May 2016 OP
LOL! merrily May 2016 #1
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000 Faux pas May 2016 #3
I know, right? merrily May 2016 #4
For sure! Faux pas May 2016 #8
Sander's rally attendees have parents that give them a ride to the rally, but not the polling place. LexVegas May 2016 #2
. merrily May 2016 #6
Plus they won't stay off my grass! QC May 2016 #9
Loved that! :) LiberalFighter May 2016 #19
Thank you so much every one of these sort of posts are worth their weight in gold azurnoir May 2016 #29
(it ain't because of fraud) stonecutter357 May 2016 #5
Excellent, excellent post. auntpurl May 2016 #7
It's been amazingly ironic that the candidate winning the most votes has been called... BobbyDrake May 2016 #10
Sanders camp is into gas lighting, they're trying to make a point that Obama wasnt a long shot in 08 uponit7771 May 2016 #22
You have NO way of knowing this. It's just what you believe! Election theft is hard to wrap your ViseGrip May 2016 #11
PS. I believe unlike you, she isn't really winning anything! 12 point deviations??? ViseGrip May 2016 #13
We spend money and military to make sure that the outcome is what we want in elections elsewhere Txbluedog May 2016 #15
You need to have evidence of fraud KingFlorez May 2016 #16
You guys have broadened the definition of 'fraud' to include any election Sanders does not win. LanternWaste May 2016 #42
Can't get enough people to fill a big event... scscholar May 2016 #12
See he can't hold small campaign events Txbluedog May 2016 #14
kick auntpurl May 2016 #17
It also helps explain -again- what I see as the most glaring 'defect' of Sanders. randome May 2016 #18
WHOA!! Fewer dem endorsements than Cruz... wow... See, it'd be different if he had 50 and Clinton ha uponit7771 May 2016 #21
And the 'wrongness' doesn't prevent his ideas from being heard or his work going undone. randome May 2016 #24
That is particularly damning, because if there's anyone who f'ing hates Cruz more than we do auntpurl May 2016 #23
I think the 'distaste' directed at Sanders is of a different sort, though. randome May 2016 #25
Yeah, I'm increasingly convinced Cruz is a stack of ferrets in a trench coat auntpurl May 2016 #28
Um, thanks for that image. I think. randome May 2016 #35
I know, I know, sorry. auntpurl May 2016 #38
He's difficult to work with KingFlorez May 2016 #26
Some say... dchill May 2016 #33
His lack of endorsements says everything KingFlorez May 2016 #36
In 2008, Hillary couldn't afford... dchill May 2016 #39
Sanders also ignored the dem base; Blacks, Hispanics, women's issues and homogenized them into uponit7771 May 2016 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author NowSam May 2016 #27
It is what it is KingFlorez May 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author NowSam May 2016 #40
Good tagline, BTW. libdem4life May 2016 #30
I wouldn't claim great charisma for Sanders, either... Orsino May 2016 #32
One very important reason is that few over 50 vote for him. tonyt53 May 2016 #34
As a Bernie supporter, I can agree with that. And yet, the Democratic Party and Hillary would do highprincipleswork May 2016 #37
B.S. The corporate media has been manipulating the process for months. Skwmom May 2016 #41
Nice summary. Thanks for posting. nt eastwestdem May 2016 #43

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
29. Thank you so much every one of these sort of posts are worth their weight in gold
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:26 PM
May 2016

really they are

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
7. Excellent, excellent post.
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:17 PM
May 2016

I completely agree. How many posts have I seen on DU deriding Hillary for not being able to draw those massive crowds? And I always thought to myself, "You genuinely think Hillary Clinton, one of the most famous women in the world, can't draw crowds?" It's by design, as is everything Hillary has done in this primary. Hillary makes the human connection. The pictures of her praying with church leaders in a black church in the south were met with the puke icon by Bernie supporters on here, but that stuff matters to a lot of people.

She learned from every mistake she made in 2008 and she put together a comprehensive plan of how to win, and she achieved it. The cries of fraud are mostly due to how incredibly prepared she was. Yeah, she got her donors in a row. Yeah, she had good relationships with her colleagues in government and with the media. Yeah, her ground game was unbelievably good. Yeah, she made sure she had the support before she started. That's what she's SUPPOSED to do, and no doubt it's the only way a woman would EVER have got as far as she has. It's not RIGGED, she just built her machine better.

Great post.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
10. It's been amazingly ironic that the candidate winning the most votes has been called...
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:27 PM
May 2016

...a "bad campaigner" during this primary. Hillary Clinton is clearly the best at campaigning in a way the media is obviously just not prepared to cover adequately.

uponit7771

(90,304 posts)
22. Sanders camp is into gas lighting, they're trying to make a point that Obama wasnt a long shot in 08
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:08 PM
May 2016
 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
11. You have NO way of knowing this. It's just what you believe! Election theft is hard to wrap your
Thu May 19, 2016, 12:59 PM
May 2016

head and heart around. That our country would be so corrupt. And we spend money and military to make sure elections are real elsewhere.

Bullshit....is your OP. You have no explanation, until you can see the source in the voting machines. But federal law prohibits that currently. No one is allowed to see how the tabulators are programmed to count. Not even you. So guess all you want.

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
13. PS. I believe unlike you, she isn't really winning anything! 12 point deviations???
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:00 PM
May 2016

over 2 is considered fraud by the U.S.

Where have you been? You must not have been a voter in 2002 or 2004. Just my guess.

 

Txbluedog

(1,128 posts)
15. We spend money and military to make sure that the outcome is what we want in elections elsewhere
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:04 PM
May 2016

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
16. You need to have evidence of fraud
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:09 PM
May 2016

"My candidate didn't win, so it must of have been fraud!" is not evidence. Unless you have some real, hard evidence that is paranoid speculation, be quiet.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
42. You guys have broadened the definition of 'fraud' to include any election Sanders does not win.
Thu May 19, 2016, 03:36 PM
May 2016

You guys have broadened the definition of 'fraud' to include any election Sanders does not win.

It's clever as a short-term gimmick, but it won't stick in the long run; and additionally, it hurts the actual of cases of election fraud actually happening.

So, guess all you want Part Two, The Guesses Strike Back.

 

Txbluedog

(1,128 posts)
14. See he can't hold small campaign events
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:03 PM
May 2016

Because if he did he might have to answer detailed questions on how he plans to accomplish his goals and we all know he's no good at that

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
18. It also helps explain -again- what I see as the most glaring 'defect' of Sanders.
Thu May 19, 2016, 01:59 PM
May 2016

The fact that he has fewer Congressional endorsements than Ted Cruz. He clearly isn't the kind of guy who works well with others and because of this he will never be able to build a coalition or get people to come together.

Whether it's some sort of crippling shyness or whatever, he can't do any of what he wants to do. It's that simple.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

uponit7771

(90,304 posts)
21. WHOA!! Fewer dem endorsements than Cruz... wow... See, it'd be different if he had 50 and Clinton ha
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:07 PM
May 2016

... had 150... but damn... 5 or so?

They knew something was wrong with him

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
24. And the 'wrongness' doesn't prevent his ideas from being heard or his work going undone.
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:22 PM
May 2016

But a national leader needs to learn to overcome that and be something greater. Sanders isn't able to do that. It's just the way things are.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
23. That is particularly damning, because if there's anyone who f'ing hates Cruz more than we do
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:11 PM
May 2016

it's the Republicans.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
25. I think the 'distaste' directed at Sanders is of a different sort, though.
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:23 PM
May 2016

Cruz turns people's stomachs, both Republican and Democratic. Sanders is more like the friendly uncle whom you realize later in your life that you never really had much in common with all along.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
28. Yeah, I'm increasingly convinced Cruz is a stack of ferrets in a trench coat
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:26 PM
May 2016

and his campaign slogan should have been "Who wants a damp hug?"

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
35. Um, thanks for that image. I think.
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
36. His lack of endorsements says everything
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016

Last edited Thu May 19, 2016, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)

In 2008, Obama was the candidate from the outside, yet he still managed to snag quite a few congressional endorsements. Why? Because he's someone who you can work with.

dchill

(38,451 posts)
39. In 2008, Hillary couldn't afford...
Thu May 19, 2016, 03:15 PM
May 2016

the whole DNC. Now she can, which makes her someone they HAVE TO work with.

uponit7771

(90,304 posts)
20. Sanders also ignored the dem base; Blacks, Hispanics, women's issues and homogenized them into
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:06 PM
May 2016

... economic issues and warnings of economic insecurity which made no sense to the already economically insecure.

Obama was a long shot in 08 and so was Sanders now... Obama was a better candidate

Response to KingFlorez (Original post)

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
31. It is what it is
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:28 PM
May 2016

All the mindless comments in the world aren't going to change the fact that Clinton ran circles around Sanders in this campaign. If you can't think of anything people than this, you are as tone deaf as your spirit father/lover Bernie Sanders.

Response to KingFlorez (Reply #31)

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
32. I wouldn't claim great charisma for Sanders, either...
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:29 PM
May 2016

...just the more genuine progressive agenda and grass-roots base.

An even simpler explanation, however, is that he competed as a relative unknown against a rock-star celebrity, and deliberately hamstring his ca,paign by not rolling over for the easy money.

The power of this message helped him gain support steadily from the Clinton default, though he may have plateaued for this primary.

 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
34. One very important reason is that few over 50 vote for him.
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:31 PM
May 2016

And the people that will show up in November are that very voting block. Also, those fundraisers raise money for other Democrats running for other offices. Bernie evidently does not understand that it will take at least a Democrat majority in the Senate to get anything moving.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
37. As a Bernie supporter, I can agree with that. And yet, the Democratic Party and Hillary would do
Thu May 19, 2016, 02:33 PM
May 2016

well to continue to notice the power and impact and popularity of his ideas.

Heck, Bernie came into the race in the first place in a kind of hesitant manner. Contrary to those around here who think it is all about ego for him, that seems very little to be the case. He wants the People to have the voice, to do a lot of the work, to have the power. That is one of the beautiful things about him.

Hillary and the Democratic Party could and should learn from him. They should continue to support and implement the kind of Progressive policies he has espoused. Even those of you who support Hillary had admitted that you either support those policies or did before you thought them too vague or unrealistic or his supporters too objectionable. They are popular policies, for Democrats and for a majority of Americans, according to the polls.

Hillary and Party should stick to these and not fall back on the antiquated and never very successful technique of "tacking back to the Right" for the general. Not only do you risk and practically guarantee risk losing the support of Sanders large contingent, but that message is so old, unmotivating. The Reagan Revolution is dead. Trump's nomination guarantees that.

Take advantage of it. It's time for THE PROGRESSIVE SOLUTION.

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