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Thu May 19, 2016, 04:28 PM

Bernie's campaign has gone completely off the rails ...

Excellent points ...

The Democratic party and its Chicago convention were torn apart in 1968 over a fundamental cleavage over the Vietnam War. The Sanders camp is going to blow up the convention to push debate schedule reform? That's amazing. Reform of the primary process is a much more substantive matter. But remember, as I've argued before, the parts of the process most in need of reform (Caucuses and post-election day shenanigans) are the ones helping Sanders the most! Now his whole campaign is based on getting the superdelegates - which for most of the campaign he has said constitute the core anti-democratic aspect of the process - to hand him the nomination. Consistency is an overrated commodity in much of life, especially in politics. But you can't make the logic of your arguments so structurally unsound that they collapse under the weight of their own ridiculousness.

Let's start with a reality check. Does anyone think there weren't enough debates this cycle? Or that they prevented Sanders from winning? As the Times article notes at one point: "Several described the campaign’s message as having devolved into a near-obsession with perceived conspiracies on the part of Mrs. Clinton’s allies." Indeed.

It is painfully conspicuous how little the Sanders camp is now pressing its issue agenda as its chances of winning the nomination have diminished. On the contrary, it's debates and a 'rigged' primary process, points that are either trivial and nonsensical or hypocritical inasmuch as the 'rigged' parts of the process are the ones the Sanders' campaign has used most effectively. The process reforms Sanders is now marching to the convention for seem like little more than attempts to prosecute and vindicate his overarching claim that the primary process in which he lost was illegitimate. In other words, his justification for continuing is mostly a feedback loop of his refusal to accept that he came close but ultimately lost.

********************

From what I can tell, the current Sanders campaign is riven between people who are increasingly upset or bewildered by what we might call the resurgent "burn it down" turn of Sanders outlook and others who are fully immersed in the feedback loop of grievance and paranoia that sees all the political events of the last year as a series of large and small scale conspiracies to deny the rectitude and destiny of Bernie Sanders. I've seen many, many campaigns. People put everything into it and losing is brutal and punishing. Folks on the losing side frequently go a little nuts, sometimes a lot nuts. The 2008 denouement really was pretty crazy. But it's not clear that this time we have any countervailing force - adulthood, institutional buy-in, future careers, over-riding pragmatism to rein things in.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/sanders-camp-flirts-with-going-full-burn-it-down

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Reply Bernie's campaign has gone completely off the rails ... (Original post)
salinsky May 2016 OP
tonyt53 May 2016 #1
Actor May 2016 #2
NCTraveler May 2016 #34
Bleacher Creature May 2016 #3
salinsky May 2016 #21
baldguy May 2016 #78
salinsky May 2016 #80
notadmblnd May 2016 #76
brush May 2016 #83
notadmblnd May 2016 #87
auntpurl May 2016 #4
salinsky May 2016 #10
workinclasszero May 2016 #35
Thinkingabout May 2016 #5
liberalnarb May 2016 #33
salinsky May 2016 #48
scscholar May 2016 #54
liberalnarb May 2016 #75
creeksneakers2 May 2016 #58
lapfog_1 May 2016 #77
arely staircase May 2016 #6
liberalnarb May 2016 #37
reformist2 May 2016 #63
BeyondGeography May 2016 #7
JDPriestly May 2016 #16
BeyondGeography May 2016 #22
JDPriestly May 2016 #30
BeyondGeography May 2016 #36
Scootaloo May 2016 #59
BeyondGeography May 2016 #61
Scootaloo May 2016 #67
creeksneakers2 May 2016 #65
Scootaloo May 2016 #68
workinclasszero May 2016 #38
Name removed May 2016 #40
skylucy May 2016 #41
workinclasszero May 2016 #43
Major Nikon May 2016 #50
Scootaloo May 2016 #62
salinsky May 2016 #69
Scootaloo May 2016 #73
salinsky May 2016 #74
Scootaloo May 2016 #81
salinsky May 2016 #82
Scootaloo May 2016 #86
brush May 2016 #85
Scootaloo May 2016 #88
brush May 2016 #90
Scootaloo May 2016 #91
brush May 2016 #92
Scootaloo May 2016 #93
guillaumeb May 2016 #32
creeksneakers2 May 2016 #60
salinsky May 2016 #71
JDPriestly May 2016 #8
Vincardog May 2016 #12
salinsky May 2016 #18
riversedge May 2016 #29
upaloopa May 2016 #20
jamese777 May 2016 #9
Vincardog May 2016 #13
brush May 2016 #89
skylucy May 2016 #45
salinsky May 2016 #46
AuntPatsy May 2016 #79
upaloopa May 2016 #11
ProfessorPlum May 2016 #14
upaloopa May 2016 #23
salinsky May 2016 #49
mindwalker_i May 2016 #15
salinsky May 2016 #17
Vincardog May 2016 #24
salinsky May 2016 #25
Vincardog May 2016 #28
salinsky May 2016 #31
Vincardog May 2016 #39
salinsky May 2016 #47
nc4bo May 2016 #19
NCTraveler May 2016 #26
salinsky May 2016 #51
NCTraveler May 2016 #55
cali May 2016 #27
Name removed May 2016 #42
k8conant May 2016 #44
cantbeserious May 2016 #52
eastwestdem May 2016 #53
davidlynch May 2016 #56
Scootaloo May 2016 #57
barrow-wight May 2016 #64
imagine2015 May 2016 #66
salinsky May 2016 #72
Agony May 2016 #70
Beacool May 2016 #84
AgingAmerican May 2016 #94

Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:30 PM

1. Bernie's followers are political novices and have no idea about rules in place for years

 

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #1)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:31 PM

2. Some are, many are not. Yes, some are very new to this all and believe

that everything that doesn't go their way is a conspiracy, but many dont think that way, their voices, our voices are being drowned out.

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Response to Actor (Reply #2)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:23 PM

34. Agree with every word in your post.

 

I think it's a shame.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:31 PM

3. It's time.

I've never had a problem with Bernie staying in the race to further his message, so long as he wasn't divisive and wasn't hurting the party. With this latest meltdown, he can't claim that anymore and needs to go.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Reply #3)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:01 PM

21. It's not about dropping out ...

... it's about putting down the Molotov cocktails as he exits the stage.

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Response to salinsky (Reply #21)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:10 PM

78. Difficult to reason with people who think using Molotov cocktails is a rational political tactic.

 

Same type of people who look at Al Gore and Bush Jr and see no difference. Same type of people who look at Hillary Clinton and Trump and see no difference.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #78)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:16 PM

80. You're right ...

... I'm participating in another thread where they can't see the difference between Hillary's measured, sober, comment regarding the downed Egyptian airliner, and Trump's dangerous, outlandish, rant.

It's mind-boggling.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Reply #3)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:56 PM

76. Do the Democrats in congress need to go too? They had a melt down today.

Got pretty nasty too I hear, chaos in fact, after the Republicans reneged on a bill they had agreed to pass.

Or do you have two sets of standards based on your personal bias?

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #76)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:29 PM

83. Yeah, right. That's exactly the same thing.

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Response to brush (Reply #83)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:37 PM

87. yelling and booing

yeah it is the same thing

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:32 PM

4. Good post.

I do hope Bernie rises above this nonsense in the end, enthusiastically supports Hillary, and stumps for her, as he should.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #4)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:44 PM

10. I do too ...

... I believe the headiness of his campaign has intoxicated him, and he could use some sage and sober advice.

And, he's not getting that from Jeff Weaver and Tad Devine.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #4)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:23 PM

35. I'll believe that

 

when I see it.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:33 PM

5. Well said, trying to derail the DNC is not progressive but a cheering squad for the GOP.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:22 PM

33. You know what really isn't Progressive?

 

Trump winning in November. And that's where we are headed with Hillary as the nominee. You must be proud.

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Response to liberalnarb (Reply #33)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:15 PM

48. Taking political hostages when you don't get your way ...

... Bernie supporters have learned all of the teatard's tricks.

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Response to liberalnarb (Reply #33)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:34 PM

54. You sound mad enough to throw a chair.

 

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Response to scscholar (Reply #54)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:50 PM

75. That's real mature.

 

There was nothing thrown at that convention. No chairs, nothing nada. If it had happened, there would be video proof. There were cameras everywhere.

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Response to liberalnarb (Reply #33)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:43 PM

58. If Trump wins

it will be because of Bernie supporters not backing the nominee.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #58)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:04 PM

77. If Trump wins

and if Hillary is the Democratic nominee that loses to this two bit hustler

it's Hillary's fault.

I don't believe that Bernie will run a 3rd party candidacy, no matter how unfairly the DNC treats him.

Many Hillary supporters here have said that you don't need "Bernie Bros" to win the general.

Trump has to be the weakest RINO to run for President in decades. Hillary should be able to wipe the floor with him... not only that but she should be able to win back the House and the Senate for the Democrats.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:34 PM

6. It is nothing but an ego trip. nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #6)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:25 PM

37. An ego trip you say?

 

Are you talking about Hillary's entire political career? With her as our nominee we are headed to a Rump presidency. You must be proud.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #6)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:51 PM

63. Yes. A twenty year ego trip for Hillary. Who stands for nothing.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:39 PM

7. This is why you have to worry about these guys

Even if you insist on seeing Clinton's actions at the end of the 2008 primary process through the most cynical prism possible, it's clear she was not willing to destroy her own future political relevance or her husband's political legacy by not getting behind Obama in the general. Sanders and Jeff Weaver have no such investment on the line.


Negotiating with them will be a waste of time. Give Bernie a nice speaking slot, pick a running mate who marginalizes him and move on.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #7)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:54 PM

16. Dismiss Bernie in that way and you will lose a lot of votes that Hillary needs in November.

It isn't so simple.

The Democratic Party lost a generation when it refused to give time to McCarthy's supporters in 1968. The country lost so much because of the stubbornness of LBJ and the Democratic Party at that crucial moment.

The Bernie supporters are not as angry as the young Democrats in 1968. There is no war protest. There is no draft.

So there will not be the protest there was in 1968. There will just be a movement away from the Democratic Party.

I do not want to advocate for a third party on DU, but please remember that there is a third party for progressives in many states.

So it is the Democratic Party that has a decision to make. And Bernie put it very well in his speech in Carson. Will the Democratic Party include all or will it reject those Democrats who have voted for and backed Bernie?

Will the Democratic Party remain a viable party in the future, or will it opt out by attempting to silence the new ideas and new people waiting to be heard?

Remember. Bernie has won many states outright, and done extremely well in many others. He is not a fleeting phenomenon. He is not an individual who can be dismissed so easily.

Most of all, Bernie is about "we," not about "I." Shut out Bernie and you are shutting out a movement, a huge WE that will find some other venue in which to be heard.

Bernie has achieved this amazing feat, winning so much, in just a little over a year. He was a virtual unknown in all but the most progressive circles prior to that. I personally knew next-to-nothing about him until just a few months before he began to run.

I am taking a break today but have been out there at every possible opportunity campaigning for Bernie. I'm no kid. I'm 72. I'm a woman. I have daughters.

I'm working with people of all ages, many millennials, young parents, but some my age, more people my age than I expected, too.

We Bernie supporters will not and should not be dismissed. We are too large a movement for that.

I realize that the truth is hard to accept sometimes. But what I am saying is a truth that the DNC needs to accept and deal with. It will deny it and reject it at its peril.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #16)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:04 PM

22. This won't be complicated

He can join the effort to defeat Trump and put his ego on hold for a few months or he can buzz off. He is not irreplaceable as a progressive voice and there are many potential running mates who can speak to his base. Then the GE kicks in and, contrary to the heat-of-the-moment feelings right now, many Sanders supporters will focus on the main event and get over the primary. We need to be reminded every 4-8 years, but these things fade quicker than you think.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #22)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:18 PM

30. Sorry. It's not going to work that way this time.

Many Bernie supporters may adhere to Hillary, but many, many won't.

She has a trust problem. Obama did not have that problem.

I can't think of a prior Democratic candidate who had the serious trust problem that Hillary has.

Hillary also has a very serious arrogance problem.

I can't think of a prior Democratic candidate with her arrogance problem. She makes others, those who disagree with her, feel small or at least tries to. That will be a serious problem in a campaign against Trump. He will tower over her, and her lack of humility and humor will look ridiculous.

Democrats will be foolish to choose Hilary as their candidate.

Bernie is the right match against Trump. It's Bernie who has the humor and the humility that can defeat Trump.

Hillary will just be overwhelmed by Trump, I fear. The one thing that can allow her to win is the history of the Republican Party and Trump himself when it comes to race and bigotry.

Other than that, Hillary is just no match for Trump. No match at all. Democrats should be courting Bernie at all cost. To be a bit (and admittedly) arrogant myself, I grew up in a fairly large family, negotiating for everything from using the scooter (we only had one) or the bicycle (we only had one) to getting my scoop of ice cream, so I am fairly good at strategy if I do say so myself.

Hillary is not good at strategy. She is going to need Bernie and Bernie's supporters, and on top of that, Bernie may yet be the candidate.

I know the numbers may suggest something else at this point, but Hillary's staff members face depositions in a civil case in the next few weeks. We shall see how that settles with the press and the voters. Depositions are testimony under oath, you know. We shall see what happens. I am not predicting, but there are many factors in Hillary's situation that could mean that she is not the candidate.

Bernie is respectably close to Hillary in terms of delegates already and California is yet to vote. The Democratic Party needs to take Bernie's admonitions seriously and make a great effort to demonstrate openness to all at the convention.

The Democrats will lose in November if the convention in Philadelphia is poorly handled and if Bernie supporters are not included and given the time and input that their votes merit.
And that's a lot.

Hillary is not winning that easily. Trump who was considered a joke at the beginning of the campaign has done a lot better than Hillary. He has already established that he has the delegates to win his convention.

Hillary is limping along in that regard. She needs to develop some humility and face her reality. That's just the reality.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:24 PM

36. Your tone is unrealistic...losers don't dictate, and Bernie is going to lose

Have fun in California. We'll see how this evolves.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #36)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:44 PM

59. Your tone shows you don't give a shit who wins in November

 

Your candidate is telling us to fuck off, she doesn't need or want us. You are reinforcing that. How do you think that is going to play out, exactly?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #59)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:50 PM

61. What do you want, a hug?

Do you know how many losers I've backed since 1980? Obama was the first time my choice ever won. Just get over it and vote against the caveman. Sheesh.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #61)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:00 PM

67. No. I want the Democratic nominee to pay attention to what nearly half the party is saying.

 

It's a half of the party she's going to need. She can't become president with just her primary voters, and Wasserman-Schultz can't hold her hand through the General.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #59)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:53 PM

65. More persecution fantasies

Hillary hasn't told you to fuck off or that she doesn't need you. I'm sure she'll reach out at the convention.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #65)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:01 PM

68. I hope she does.

 

I don't plan on holding my breath though.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:28 PM

38. "Hillary is not good at strategy"

 

And yet she has well over 200 more pledged delegates and 3 million more voters than Sanders.

Its crazy how she is disrespected for that here. I bet if she was an old white male that wouldn't be the case.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #38)


Response to Name removed (Reply #40)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:57 PM

41. Yeah.. What's the matter with her...Wanting to be "Queen"! Doesn't she understand that

we only elect "KINGS"! Uppity woman. Needs to stay in her place.

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Response to skylucy (Reply #41)

Thu May 19, 2016, 06:10 PM

43. Bingo

 

This place is depressing.

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Response to skylucy (Reply #41)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:31 PM

50. Results...

On Thu May 19, 2016, 07:21 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yeah.. What's the matter with her...Wanting to be "Queen"! Doesn't she understand that
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2007949

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling Clinton a Uppity woman is really over the top. And saying "Needs to stay in her place." is really sexist.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 19, 2016, 07:29 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: User needs to add the sarcasm icon, otherwise the post is fine.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Lighten up, Francis.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing wrong with this.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: They are replying to someone who is been PPR, so I'm voting to leave it since I can't tell what was said.
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Explanation: The great thing about sarcasm is not everyone gets it.
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Explanation: No explanation given

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #38)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:51 PM

62. "I bet if she was an old white male that wouldn't be the case."

 

He says, about a candidate who exemplifies white privilege and wealth entitlement on a level comparable to Mitt Romney in an attempt to justify his extreme hate and rage towards the Jewish guy running agaisnt her...

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #62)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:09 PM

69. The BoB movement exemplifies white privilege ... nt

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Response to salinsky (Reply #69)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:32 PM

73. As does voting for Hillary Clinton

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #73)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:33 PM

74. Is that why she's overwhelmingly getting the minority vote? ... nt

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Response to salinsky (Reply #74)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:23 PM

81. You assume that minorities won't vote for someone with extreme white privilege.

 

Clearly they will.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #81)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:28 PM

82. Hahahaha ... well played ... it's astounding that your favored candidate is losing ... nt

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Response to salinsky (Reply #82)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:36 PM

86. Well someone had to.

 

I'm actually a little glad it's Sanders. After all, look at all the rage pouring out of Hillary supporters while you guys are winning.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #73)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:36 PM

85. Two peas in a pod then (not), so the one with the most votes and delegates wins. Not rocket science.

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Response to brush (Reply #85)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:39 PM

88. Doesn't change the fact of Clinton's overwhelming white privilege.

 

In fact that privilege goes a long way towards explaining that advantage in delegates and votes.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #88)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:49 PM

90. Sour grapes that POCs don't vote for Sanders?

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Response to brush (Reply #90)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:57 PM

91. Nope. Just making note of a feature of Hillary Clinton. Does that upset you?

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #91)

Thu May 19, 2016, 11:09 PM

92. Doesn't upset me if you think they both benefit from white privilege. All white people do.

Some learn to reach out to POCs though.

Others didn't even bother to contest the early southern primaries because they thought black votes weren't important.

Bet he wishes he had a do-over on those primaries now — he might actually be winning or tied if he had won a few of them.

But he couldn't be bothered as the white votes in those small caucus states with few votes were more important.

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Response to brush (Reply #92)

Thu May 19, 2016, 11:23 PM

93. Some learn to. Others don't have to and aren't expected to

 

And some have every effort rebuffed and reviled without consideration.

It seems to vary depending on what variety of white a person is.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #16)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:21 PM

32. Very well said.

Sanders is giving voice to the frustrations of many progressives who vote Democratic but wish that they could vote with enthusiasm instead of voting to prevent an even worse candidate.

And it is interesting how some HRC supporters feel the need to attempt to characterize all Sanders supporters as political novices and young voters. As if more experience will show them the wisdom of supporting corporatists.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #16)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:50 PM

60. After the convention

Organize and continue your movement. We can all accomplish the most if we work together. Then you won't be dismissed. If you try to destroy all we've worked for by not voting to stop Trump in November you'll be dismissed, and you should be.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #60)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:10 PM

71. +1 ... nt

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:42 PM

8. I'm active in the Sanders volunteer campaign.

What I hear on the street is that we are starting a movement.

The political revolution is not violent, but we want to be heard.

That is very important.

I am recommending that we hold a pre-convention interactive internet convention with people sending in videos and discussing things on-line, issues and potential candidates for future elections.

We Bernie supporters have shown that in just over a year, we could get a respectable number of votes and supporters.

The future is ours.

Hillary supporters need to understand that regime change in Syria is not a go.

Peaceful and persistent change in America is our goal.

I have not encountered any desire among the people I am working with on the Bernie campaign to create any unnecessary chaos. We want to play the role in the convention that our numbers, our votes, make appropriate and fair.

A repeat of the shut-out that took place in Nevada would be an extremely foolish move on the part of the DNC.

I am not a millenial. I am 72 years old. I will not be attending the convention in Pennsylvania. No way.

Hillary faces a test, and it is a test that many winners face: can she be gracious and include people she views as the conquered, as the losers, in the process. If she doesn't, she is more likely to lose in November.

Hillary does have a problem with arrogance. A test of whether she can handle the power and authority of the presidency is how she handles her victory.

Of course, we have not voted in California. Any show of heavy-handedness on her part will make her wished-for route to the White House more difficult.

My daughters had an easy time -- at school, in music, at all of the competitive things they tried, but they were small and not competitive in sports. So I required them to sign up for sports, something in which they would taste defeat. Hillary has tasted defeat. She should know how it feels and be gracious about it. But I think that when she was young, she did not learn how to be gracious to others who were less talented and fortunate than she.

So Hillary's success in November hangs on this: can she as Bernie challenged her to do, be inclusive, care about the needs of others who may not agree with her, or will she haughtily claim her "right" and because of her haughty claim, lose the very right she would claim?

It's up to Hillary and her pals in the DNC.

Meanwhile, we in California will continue to campaign for Bernie because we love him. We love his ideas. We love his morality. We love his honesty and integrity.

Hillary would do well to learn from Bernie. She built her movement over decades. He built his in a year. Clearly, she has not done well. She needs to turn to those she wants to shun, stretch out her hand in a humble way and ask for our help.

I campaigned for Bill. I campaigned for Kerry. I campaigned and did election protection for Obama. Spent lots of time, lots and lots of it, on their campaigns. I do not not feel so moved for Hillary.

Rather than feel high and mighty, Hillary should feel humble and thoughtful.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #8)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:49 PM

12. IMO the DNC and Establishment "Democrats" would rather lose to trump than win with Bernie.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #12)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:58 PM

18. Yep ...

"feedback loop of grievance and paranoia" ...

... pretty much nailed it.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #12)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:18 PM

29. Since there is no 'win with Bernie" , there is no need to make that silly claim.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #8)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:59 PM

20. Here is what I don't get. Just about every negative outcome you mention is as a result of something

you project onto Hillary.

I would think if you want positive change you would make sure we don't lose the progress that President Obama has accomplished.

I would assume you would make it your duty to see that the Democratic nominee is elected.

You sure as hell will not see any progressive change if you let Trump put judges on the SCOTUS. They will remain on the bench long after he is gone so there will be no revolution because he was such a bad president.

So all the micro things you talk about are not worth shit if in the macro view we lose the power we have.

Rather than blame Hillary for what ever negative outcomes there could be, you should help to elect her, get those millions of millennials to join the Democratic party and work on your revolution from within the party. Start locally and elect your revolution candidates there and move up.

Keep pushing Congress to pass laws that you want to see put into place. Hillary will sign them.


If you keep on the path you are on your revolution will fizzle out after November.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:43 PM

9. Everybody Calm Down

What is happening now happens every time there is a contested primary election season. Once the convention is over, thngs will return to normal.
Thank God that practically everybody who is left of center can't stand the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency; even some folks who are right of center can't stand that prospect.

Anyone remember PUMA (Party Unity My Ass) from 2008's disgruntled Clinton supporters? Obama beat McCain by ten million votes.

"I am not a member of an organized political party, I'm a Democrat."-- Will Rogers

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Response to jamese777 (Reply #9)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:50 PM

13. No we need to STAND UP and demand that our party represent US not the corporations NOW.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #13)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:41 PM

89. Isn't that what you've been doing? Sanders is behind though so now what?

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Response to jamese777 (Reply #9)

Thu May 19, 2016, 07:31 PM

45. Hi Jamese---I appreciate and welcome your post. I can tell this isn't your first rodeo. I'm a

life long Dem and political junkie, so I know that emotions and passions do run high during primaries. What is new to me is to have a Democratic candidate accusing the party of being dirty and rigging the votes. I just don't remember Hillary or then Senator Obama saying that the results were dirty and part of a conspiracy every time they lost a state primary. I am worried about what that means for our party. I believe in the Democratic Party and although I am at the far left end of the political spectrum and don't always get exactly what I want in the way of legislation etc. I know where my home is...and it is here with the Democrats. And when people say to me that the two parties are essentially the same, I know they are either a very ill informed person or they are right winger playing games. I really hope that you are right and this primary season ends well for the Democrats and we can pull together to defeat Trump and take back the Senate and House. Thanks again for the thoughtful post. I think we both know who the real "enemy" is and it is not Senator Sanders and it is not Secretary Clinton. Here's to our country doing the right thing in November. The world is watching.

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Response to skylucy (Reply #45)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:07 PM

46. Thoughtful post ...

... I wish all of Sanders' supporters would be so level-headed.

Alas ...

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Response to jamese777 (Reply #9)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:12 PM

79. No this is not the normal. It would be foolish to believe that

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:46 PM

11. Right now I don't know what Sanders wants. He says he will work to keep Trump form becoming

president.

So when does that start? He knows he is not going to be the nominee. Yet he turns against the Democratic party.

He said the Democratic party is responsible for the working class becoming republican. That is really a hard one to prove.

President Johnson said that because of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights act he lost the South for the rest of his life and longer. The Southern working class did not become Republican because Johnson wasn't progressive enough.

Reagan Democrats were voting against Jimmy Carter. Even though Carter took the party on a less progressive path. Reagan Dems were not voting for Reagan because Jimmy Carter was not progressive enough.


So I think Bernie is not being genuine when he insinuates that the Democratic Party turned the Working class against it because it wasn't what he thinks the party should become.

He knows the truth but he doesn't tell it like it is.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #11)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:51 PM

14. Let's let CA vote, shall we?

and then we can see where things stand.

All this flop sweat.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #14)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:10 PM

23. There is nothong you or I can do to stop people voting in CA. I voted in CA last week. Ballots

were mailed out last week to the vote by mail folks.

There will be a California primary. Also on the ballot are other races. I hope the Bernie voters will vote down ticket also for the progressive candidates.

Remember that no party independents can't vote in the Dem primary unless the ask for a Dem ballot. See below.




http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/political-parties/no-party-preference/

No Party Preference Information
Voting in Presidential Primary Elections

Voters who registered to vote without stating a political party preference are known as No Party Preference (NPP) voters. NPP voters were formerly known as "decline-to-state" or “DTS” voters.

For presidential elections: NPP voters, unless they choose otherwise (see below), will receive a “non-partisan” ballot that does not include presidential candidates. A nonpartisan ballot contains only the names of candidates for voter-nominated offices and local nonpartisan offices and measures.
Voting in the June 7, 2016, Presidential Primary Election

An NPP voter will receive a non-partisan ballot, which will have no presidential candidates listed.

However, upon request, an NPP voter can instead vote the presidential ballot of the following parties:

American Independent Party
Democratic Party
Libertarian Party

Why? Each political party has the option of allowing NPP voters to vote in their presidential primary election. 135 days before the election, political parties must notify the Secretary of State's office whether or not they will allow NPP voters to vote in their presidential primary election. The above three parties notified the Secretary of State that they will allow NPP voters to request their party’s presidential ballot for the June 7, 2016, Presidential Primary Election.

How to request a party ballot? The NPP voter may ask their county elections office or poll worker, at their polling place, for a ballot for one of the above three parties. An NPP voter may not request more than one party's ballot.

A vote-by-mail voter is who is also an NPP voter may contact their county elections office or complete and mail a vote-by-mail ballot application to their county elections office. The vote-by-mail ballot application must arrive by May 31, 2016.

The following three parties notified the Secretary of State that they have chosen not to allow NPP voters to request their party’s presidential ballot participate in their presidential primary election:

Republican
Green
Peace & Freedom

If an NPP voter wants to vote for a presidential candidate in the Republican, Green, or Peace and Freedom party, the NPP voter must re-register to vote with one of those parties by May 23, 2016. To register online go to registertovote.ca.gov.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #11)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:19 PM

49. Working to keep Trump from becoming President ...

... is not necessarily the same as endorsing and supporting the Democratic candidate.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:51 PM

15. Are you still mad about the chairs being thrown around?

Hillary is a liar, especially under sniper fire.

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Response to mindwalker_i (Reply #15)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:56 PM

17. When you center your campaign around your own purported rectitude, ...

... patent dishonesty sort of blows all of that out of the water, no?

Bernie has no path to the nomination, and he should stop bullshitting his supporters.

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Response to salinsky (Reply #17)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:11 PM

24. The patent dishonesty has been demonstrated by the HRC campaign. You calling it a fault

of the Sanders supporters is laughable.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #24)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:15 PM

25. I'm sorry, I guess I was unclear ...

... the patent dishonesty of the Sanders campaign is the fault of the Sanders campaign.

Capiche?

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Response to salinsky (Reply #25)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:18 PM

28. Please continue and enumerate the "patent dishonesty of the Sanders campaign "

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #28)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:21 PM

31. He has no path to the nomination ...

... time to stop bullshitting his supporters.

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Response to salinsky (Reply #31)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:43 PM

39. Has Hillary got 2382 Pledged delegates? If so it is over if not it is not over. It's not.

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #39)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:08 PM

47. "it is not over. It's not." ... yes, yes, in a world of ...

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Response to mindwalker_i (Reply #15)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:58 PM

19. Come here...

Check my sig line...........

And yea, they screwed the pooch over the chairs, looked dumb, now they're moving on to other crap.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:16 PM

26. Every single state Sanders has lost...

 

Have been followed up by conspiracy after conspiracy.

The real messed up part is that in a number of those states there appeared to be some serious issues, and most all in republican run states or counties. Sanders supporters have been such poor losers and come up with so many conspiracy theories pinning it all on Clinton or the DNC that we really can't have an open discussion about it. A number of republican strongholds have really had an impact on the primaries.

There are also a very few areas where democrats run the show and there were issues. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the investigation from NY. Our side is going to be transparent and it's my understanding that an investigation is underway.

Still, we can't discuss these things because any attempt to do so is hijacked by conspiracy theorists pinning it on Clinton or the DNC and only in every state Sanders lost. I believe there is a very good chance Clinton would be leading by more if it weren't for some of the issues.

DU should be the premier place to discuss these issues. It can't currently be done and the piece in your op gives some of the reasons.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #26)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:31 PM

51. Bernie needs to change his narrative because the longer he pretends that the ultimate result ...

... is in doubt, the more he has to twist the narrative into one of a stolen nomination, and the more his campaign becomes beholden to a new variety of Truther.

He could have kept competing on the issues right through to the end without turning it into a purity pity party, but he chose otherwise.

I think he's getting some really bad advice.

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Response to salinsky (Reply #51)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:35 PM

55. Agree with every word. Nt

 

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:16 PM

27. Joshy boy has SDS

 

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Response to salinsky (Original post)


Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 07:00 PM

44. Absolutely overbearing and condescending...

especially this:

But it's not clear that this time we have any countervailing force - adulthood, institutional buy-in, future careers, over-riding pragmatism to rein things in.


I've been an adult for more than 40 years but decry "institutional buy-in" as too expensive for most of us and can't get hired to have a future career because I'm too old. I say forget the overbearing pragmatism that wants to rein in progress.


I say full speed ahead, Bernie!

Jeremiah 22:3 NRSV

3 Thus says the Lord: Act with justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor anyone who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the alien, the orphan, and the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:33 PM

52. Reliably Spreading Establishment FUD - Meme 132

eom

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:33 PM

53. Someone needs to tell Bernie that you don't announce an attack. It gives everyone time to talk

 

about how slimy he is before he makes the actual attack. The only possible pre-meditated reason for doing this is he is pulling a 'Trump'.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:37 PM

56. Bernie's camp is fine, but David Brock's plan isn't quite firing on all cylinders n/t

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:38 PM

57. It's an op-ed citing an op-ed that cites nothing.

 

Maybe we can stack this one a few layers deeper. Quick, one of you guys write an essay on this op-ed on an op-ed about nothing!

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:51 PM

64. At this point, reasonable people are finding Bernie's campaign embarrassing.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 08:59 PM

66. If one hasn't actually read Bernie's campaign statements this article might be believable.

 

But it's just a pretty standard unresearched hit piece as part of the smear and slander swiftboating political operation against Sanders.

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Response to imagine2015 (Reply #66)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:13 PM

72. So, now TPM is part of "the smear and swiftboating political operation"??

The paranoia, and conspiracy theories, and butthurt never ends!

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 09:10 PM

70. Hillary has been off the rails for awhile...

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:32 PM

84. The last paragraph.......

"From what I can tell, the current Sanders campaign is riven between people who are increasingly upset or bewildered by what we might call the resurgent "burn it down" turn of Sanders outlook and others who are fully immersed in the feedback loop of grievance and paranoia that sees all the political events of the last year as a series of large and small scale conspiracies to deny the rectitude and destiny of Bernie Sanders."

The writer must have been reading DU. I also find it interesting that he too thinks that this is coming from the top. That it's Sanders who is driving this effort, not just some misguided supporters. Despicable behavior.

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Response to salinsky (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:01 PM

94. Translation: Hillary campaign has gone off the rails

 

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