I'm not a NEW DEMOCRAT-are you? Some history about the NEW DEMOCRATS is needed.

[bobthedrummer]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Skinner (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

The NEW DEMOCRAT movement began as a reaction to the election of Ronald Reagan. The majority of the NEW DEMOCRATS leadership and policies came out of the Democratic Leadership Council/DLC. Below are a couple of informative links about the DLC.

Democratic Leadership Council (RightWeb entry)
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Democratic_Leadership_Council

Source Watch DLC page
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Democratic_Leadership_Council

Interesting how much of the corporate and other funding and support for the NEW DEMOCRATS comes from many of the same RW sources that have supported the worst of the worst in the American political arena (Koch Industries, Bradley Foundation, Raytheon, Merck, DuPont, ARCO, Phillip Morris, Microsoft etc.).

Policies of the NEW DEMOCRATS came from people like Al From, Bruce N. Reed, Will Marshall, Joseph Lieberman, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Jennifer Mann, Harold Ford Jr., Gary Hart and their support networks.

Below is the Wikipedia page on the NEW DEMOCRAT COALITION
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrat_Coalition

I'm not a NEW DEMOCRAT, are you?

[guillaumeb]

1. Recommended. This post should be repeated daily.

An example of how, as Ralph Nader put it, the two major parties are two sides of the same corporate coin.

[silvershadow]

2. Nope. I'm an FDR/Union Labor man all the way to my bone marrow. nt

[bobthedrummer]

8. If you ever need a blood transfusion, silvershadow, I'm one of your universal donors!

[silvershadow]

9. Always nice to know there are still a few of us around :)

[srobert]

61. DITTO

I worked my way through college by having a union job and going to school part time, paying my own way as I went. It took a long time, but I graduated without any debt. It saddens me to work with young people now who are going to graduate so deep in debt that they will spend most of their adult lives trying to pay it off. I've explained to some of them that when I was a kid, a third of workers were represented under union contracts. Now it's less than 8%. Also I've discussed with them that, in today's dollars, in 1968 minimum wage was approaching $12/hour. But that was for teenagers working in fast food, most Americans were doing better than that. Today a large portion of workers make less than that. Most of these young people I'm talking to are listening. I know this because they're voting for Bernie Sanders. That gives me some hope.

[Ferd Berfel]

86. me too

FDR policies are what worked for the 99% THe DLC, BLue Dog Third Way Neo-Dem policies only work for Wall Street and the 1%

The Toilet has been flushed and we will be circling the bowl for the next 4 years regardless of what happens from this point on.

[swhisper1]

101. amen

[Go Vols]

126. +1

[rurallib]

135. new dealer to the day I die also!

[bobthedrummer]

143. another solidarity kick

[Hell Hath No Fury]

3. I'm an old-school Liberal.

None of this Third Way, Blue Dog, New Democrat poppycock for me.

[Dem2]

4. Nobody is.

This is silly gibberish that almost nobody here or anywhere that I know of is associated with - if pols aren't into it, who is?

[bobthedrummer]

6. The Clintons certainly are Dem2. n/t

[Doctor_J]

7. Did you not read the last link in the OP?

They are "moderate, pro-growth democratic congressmen" and presumably backers of those congressmen. What do you mean by "nobody is"?

[bobthedrummer]

10. Rahm Emmanuel and Bruce N. Reed certainly are-they "wrote the book" on ending welfare before Tommy

Thompson diverted it to the military-industrial-intelligence communities.

"Moderate" is another useless euphemism as you well know, Doctor J.

[SpareribSP]

12. Wow

Jumped the shark with this one.

[Dem2]

13. You do know that nobody outside of DU gives a flying hootenanny about this b*******

This just shows how out of touch some people are at this whole DLC Third Way triangulation b******* hogwash that nobody gives a flying f*** about.

In fact I automatically write off anybody who talks about this stuff as a conspiracy theorist type of person who can't be taken seriously. So do whatever you want don't expect anybody to give a care.

[bunnies]

15. Yeah. Nobody gives a shit about that whole "third way" nonsense!

Nobody!

[bobthedrummer]

17. !

[swhisper1]

103. I think it imperative to know who is a 3rd way follower

[bobthedrummer]

16. Your political indoctrination is marvelous Dem2-but wrong as can be to those of us that love the

truth.

Write me off all you want-that doesn't change facts that well indoctrinated reactionaries dispute to this very day. Here's one for everyone that loves the truth, Fritz Gustave Anton Kraemer influenced US policies and policy advisors for many decades and his influence is still profoundly evident-shared with all centrist/right groups of leaders including Lansdale, Kissinger, Haig, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and several policies held by NEW DEMOCRATS.

For those of you who never heard of him here are some informative links beginning with a couple of his obituaries.

Fritz Kraemer (November 10, 2003 UK Telegraph)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1446315/Fritz-Kraemer.html

Fritz Kraemer (The Guardian November 12, 2003)
http://www.theguardian.com/news/2003/nov/12/guardianobituaries.usa

Fritz G. A. Kraemer (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_G._A._Kraemer

Ideology of Fritz Kraemer was at the Heart of Wartime Policy from Vietnam to the Present (Nixon Tapes.org)
http://nixontapes.org/kraemer.html

Kraemer was a member of LeCercle. Look it up for yourself-it's a real organization just like Bohemian Grove is real. Real Nazis, including war criminals, were given identities and employment as "Americans" working in "national security". This expanded to offspring and social networks over time. This is fact, not CT. It pays to be well-informed in this day and age, doesn't it?

Or just stick to your guns and kill the messengers.

[Dem2]

19. Believe what you want

Most people have the sense to avoid commenting in these silly threads. I will in the future - enjoy your desolate island.

[panader0]

108. The real "desolate island" is the one between your ears.

[tk2kewl]

130. LOL

I've recently been getting angry pushback for using the term neoliberal - as if it were a slur rather than an actual term describing economic policy

[ChiciB1]

114. In TIME You WILL Very Probably Come To Eat These Words...

You have NO idea how very, very many of us Old School Democrats are still alive AND very active!! Here in FL we've actually formed a group called The Progressive Democratic Coalition that has been formed to go up against so many Democrats who vote RIGHT ALONG WITH so many Repubs! This is a KNOWN fact down here!

The group has been formed and went through the COMPLETE process of being formed and many counties have elected President's on down for each county!

After THEY (the Democrats here) saw that this was a genuine LEGAL coalition THEY tried everything they could to eradicate the movement! They lost their bid to shut us down and it's growing more and more as time goes by. There are monthly meetings and delegates elected to go to the DNC Convention.

WE ARE the people who are FED up with the DLC/Third Way types and getting this up and running has been met with a GREAT DEAL of OBSTRUCTION from the State Democrats down here. Obama endorsed DWS you known and he also endorsed Patrick Murphy for Rubio's Senate seat. He was a Republican until 2012! THESE two are the people Obama supports!

Murphy actually backed Republicans for most of his life and supported Mitt Romney for POTUS. He backs the Keystone Pipeline4and OPPOSES tighter regulations on FOR-PROFIT Universities, the U.S. Department of Educations is for MORE regulations on the Universities. AND he considers himself a BILL CLINTON Democrat and moderate of fiscal issues. Has gotten many $$$$$$ from DNC to help him win.

He also voted AGAINST the Ozone Standard Implementations Act of 2016! And there's much MORE that one could find that shows that he's quite a right wing Democrat! So yea, NOT much like what I've grown up with as a Union supporting Democrat. I also don't think he supports UNIONS in the past! He may "say" he NOW supports them!

He would MOST DEFINITELY align himself with The Clinton DLC/Third Way Dems. and therefore is getting all the $$$$$ they're throwing his way and has a great deal of money to "play" with!

I WILL NOT vote for him! If THIS is what YOU WANT as YOUR voice in Congress then YOU are supporting issues that Democrats were against before THE CLINTONS began to change the Party!

[Dem2]

117. It's incredibly telling telling how much that one post I made got under people's skins

I think y'all overuse silly "tags" to slander people you don't like.

It's just my opinion, no need to toss shit-fits over it.

[tk2kewl]

131. these "tags" were coined by the very people folks here are associating the with

You are making a fool of yourself.

you should do a little research.

[Dem2]

138. Little research?

I've been reading these ridiculous childish infantile accusations for 15 years.

The childish name calling doesn't work any longer. People like yourself have immunized people from said terms by overusing them and using them as a pejorative. So, you've been hoisted upon your own petard.

[tk2kewl]

139. ...

[Dem2]

140. Yes, pretty much

Try imagining life for those of us who live in the real world.

[bobthedrummer]

21. A belated Welcome to DU 2016, SpareribSP!

[Dem2]

22. Self-promote much?

[Octafish]

34. Condescend much?

In addition to being a lifelong Democrat, bobthedrummer has been on DU since DU was new. He's never dumped on someone for disagreeing with him, even with those who are less than civil.

Here's an excellent example of what bobthedrummer is all about:

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread

A pretty brave position to take in 2003, considering how 90-percent of America -- including a sizable chunk o' DU -- dropped politics to swear allegiance to Bush and Cheney.

[bobthedrummer]

36. Here's something that really can educate people-btw I thought you were going away from this thread

Applying the Principles of War to Information (Commander Greg Rowe, USN via Air University Maxwell AFB 2006 pdf)

"The author examines how the accepted Principles of War apply to the use of information content in an open media environment, and the need to address public perceptions as a necessary aspect of engaging and defeating an enemy force."

http://www.au.af.mil/info-ops/iosphere/iosphere_win06_rowe.pdf

[SpareribSP]

45. Thanks!

[suffragette]

70. Clintons embraced New Dem label in the past. Here's history and a pic.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040329063018/http:/www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=103&subid=111&contentid=250759


DLC | New Dem Of The Week | August 5, 2002
New Dem of the Week: Hillary Rodham Clinton
U.S. Senator, New York

New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton last week hosted the 2002 DLC National Conversation in New York City, anchoring the two-day program with a stirring keynote address that focused on the major themes of the event: security, opportunity, and responsibility.

Framing her remarks, she reminded the audience of 300-plus state and local elected officials of one of the core New Democrat principles for governance: "Good ideas, rooted in good values [make] for good politics."

Go to link to see picture of Hillary standing at podium with banner reading:
www.ndol.org
Democratic Leadership Council
New Democrats Online


The Clinton Foundation now holds the DLC records.
Here's info from when they acquired them.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/07/dlc-records-to-clinton-foundation-037215

DLC records to Clinton Foundation
By BEN SMITH 07/05/11 09:52 AM EDT

The remnants of the once-powerful Democratic Leadership Council, which closed its doors earlier this year after a period of ideological and organizational decline, are being absorbed into the Clinton Foundation, founder Al From said in an email.

From wrote this morning:

The DLC has accomplished much of what we first set out to achieve. As a result, the DLC itself ceased operations earlier this year, but the records and materials prepared and formulated by the DLC over the years have significant historical value.
Because many of these materials show and explain the growth and development of President Clinton's policies, passions and legacy, the William J. Clinton Foundation has purchased all of the records and materials of the DLC. The Clinton Presidential Center is an important location for telling the story not just of the Clinton administration but also of the world at the latter part of the 20th century. We believe these records are an important part of that history, and believe the Clinton Foundation is an appropriate and fitting repository.
~~~

The New Democrat model is as powerful today as ever. Statehouses, state legislatures, and local governments across America are led by a new generation of leaders whose political philosophies were shaped by President Clinton and the DLC. We are thankful these documents and ideas will live on, and the new generation of leaders can learn from the politics that President Clinton and the DLC forged.

Here's the Clinton Foundation partnering with Al From to host a lecture by him about Bill Clinton and the New Democrat philosophy and principles.

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/get-involved/take-action/attend-an-event/new-democrats-and-return-power-author-al

In partnership with the Clinton School of Public Service, the Clinton Center will host a lecture by Al From to discuss his book, “The New Democrats and the Return to Power."

The New Democrates and the Return to Power, author Al From
September 15, 2015
12 p.m.
Choctaw Building

In 1984, Al From organized the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). Its mission: to rescue the party from the political wilderness, redefine its message, and, most importantly, win presidential elections. Founded after a series of defeats to the Democratic Party, the DLC provided both the action agenda and the ideas for New Democrats to redefine the center of the Democratic Party. From played a prominent role in the 1992 election of President Bill Clinton and served as Domestic Policy Advisor to the Clinton transition. In “The New Democrats and the Return to Power,” From explores the founding philosophy of the New Democrats and outlines the principles at the heart of the movement, including economic centrism, national security, and entitlement reform.

They were definitely "into it."

[Dem2]

71. You dug up this two-week-old thread just to post a bunch of gibberish?

Just to angrily "tag" our likely nominee with some stupid label that fits a narritive you're intent on pedaling.

[suffragette]

73. The thread was on the 1st page. One article is from the Clinton Foundation itself.

I did not create the narrative.

The Clintons and From created the label and put forth their ideas under that branding. It even went global, with Tony Blair labeling himself as "New Labour" and pointing to his similarity to the Clinton "New Democrat."

The history is there, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

[bobthedrummer]

74. The truth in this thread is in english, not "gibberish" Dem2. See you on the streets.

[Dem2]

76. Says the internet warrior

back at ya. I'll assume you kicked this, too hard to determine on phone.

[opiate69]

77. "narrative", "peddling"....

[Dem2]

78. I do love how seriously people take this whole classification thing

People are people, I understand how people want to tag those they disagree with, it makes it easier to dehumanize them/name call.

[opiate69]

79. I know...

right?

[Dem2]

80. I'm talking about politicians, obviously

WHOOSH!!

(I know you're just attempting to make it personal since you can't counter my point in a reasonable way)

[tk2kewl]

129. DLC, 3rd Way, New Democrats are most certainly real

Clintons were founding members and these days it seems nearly impossible to find a New Deal Democrat. The tenets of The New Deal are openly mocked on this site.

[djean111]

5. that New Democrat Coalition website used to be a clone of the Americans For Prosperity

(of the Kochs) website. They changed it a bit when the primaries started, but it used to proudly boast that it eschewed that silly old ideology thing, and was eager to work hand in hand across the aisle. And we all know what that results in. Doing what the GOP wants to do.

I won't be voting for any of these politicians, if the occasion arises. evidently there is a Senate version of this group, and "my" senator, Bill Nelson (DINO-FL), belongs to it.

http://newdemocratcoalition-kind.house.gov/

They love them some TPP.

[bobthedrummer]

18. Ron Kind's La Crosse offices are about 40 miles from where I live djean111-he has a Democrat rival

Myron Buchholz
http://buchholzforcongress.org

I hear you!

[ChiciB1]

118. Yeah... AND If The DLC/DINO/Third Way Peeps Get Their Way Those Of

us who live here in FL are going to have TWO, not ONE Right Wing Democrat! I've been to many rallies throughout my time here in Florida during elections and one thing I've always noticed, for the MOST part, is the BILL NELSON ALWAYS tries to be there to support WHOEVER it is. Especially during Primaries and Presidential Elections. I have wished many times he would have a strong opponent to run against him!

Obama threw his support in for DWS and Patrick Murphy, a Repub until 2012! He supported Mitt Romney for POTUS then turned around and said he got fed up with THE TEA PARTY!

I can't vote for Tim Canova because it's the 18th District and not mine. As usual here in MY County it will be a Repub. and the one that's really a piece of work "car salesman" Vern Buchanan!

I do realize that Alan Grayson has been dogged by some bad press, some that actually are not true but very few believe this, I WILL vote for him. He has been outspoken and most see him negatively, but he has worked to get legislation passed to help the of us who aren't included in the Greed that's taken over this Party.

I think Patrick Murphy and Bill Nelson will be really Super Buddies all the while giving the "appearance" of being something other than DINO's. I actually am worried that Murphy will lean even MORE TO THE RIGHT! Given that he voted AGAINST regulations of the For-Profit Universities and the Ozone Bill very recently. Also is in FAVOR of Keystone Pipeline unless he's recently changed his mind. He's gotten lots of money from Goldman Sachs and other PACS and is heavily funded with lots of cash on hand. He's the "darling" favorite and I fear he will get elected because he's been hand picked by DWS and Democratic Congress Critters.

But, the Democratic insiders will make sure they get ALL the help needed so they deliver for Hillary. I've not had much respect for Bill Nelson ever.

Bob Graham may not have been as liberal as some of the Democrats back during his time, but he DID fight for us here in FL AND has been trying for quite a few years to get the 28 pages released for ALL to see. I felt he was a good Governor and Senator... but I think once again he's been shut down.

This DEM2 person is trying to bait everyone here by his rather silly retorts to anyone who disagrees with him. I'm not going to take the bait as the arguments are rather silly at best. But, it is what it is and I've been in the trenches for decades and have seen this before. Only this time so many here can't see certain handwriting on the wall.

Nuff said!

[djean111]

120. I agree with all you said, except the Graham I was talking about is Gwen Graham, Bob Graham's

daughter. She is quite a DINO.

Grayson - really - I don't care enough about bad press to vote for a DINO like Murphy. Not even part of my thought process, really. I care about the issues which affect me and everyone else. And I trust Grayson to represent me more than I would even begin to trust Murphy, who is a New Democrat. Shiny new.

[ChiciB1]

122. TOTALLY Agree About Murphy... SHINY, SHINY NEW! YUK!

Actually, I think overlooked your Graham's comment because I only brought him up because of what I remember about him. My husband and I have lived here since the 70's (revealing my age LOL) and HE was born in Tampa which makes him a native of FL. Some ARE left anyway. Only reference THAT because it verifies just how long I've been in the trenches as an activist and have lots of memories about MANY politicians.

MY HOW FLORIDA HAS CHANGED! Not that it was ever a bastion of liberalism in the way that I am, but I recall times when I wrote to BOB Graham and he always replied and tried to explain the reasons why he voted for certain legislation. One of my pet peeves way, way back was WHY did we send so much money to Israel because by the 80's they certainly had established themselves and had become very able top defend themselves from the Palestinians by that time. Regardless of what upheaval there is between them in that region. Now, under Netanyahu my feelings about how he runs the country has upset me quite a bit. He's quite the WAR HAWK, but this this issue isn't why I'm replying.

Back to the subject at hand and how I've seen the evolution of the Democratic Party of today and what's it's become is very DISTRESSING to say the least. I understand that we always must accept changes in society and remember the struggles of the past and how "we the people" had to stand up and fight for out rights. Women and people pop color couldn't vote, abortion was a back alley way of life, civil rights was a horrible fight that's NEVER gone away... and so many more issues that need not be listed.

But, it was THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY who I felt was more open to the rights and causes of the ordinary person. This has changed dramatically for me now and it's THIS election that has shined a very BRIGHT NEON light on what it's become. What's more, it's now seems THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY I knew has become one that has astounded me because it seems they would rather WE SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN and do as they want!

In no way is Bernie Sanders who they've made him out to be. They've done a DAMN GOOD job and have gone out of their way to make him seem like some ridiculous radical mad scientist and have completely ignored how very much he's always aligned himself with Democrats and fought for our issues from WAY back.

I can recall the time when BARNEY FRANK was a pariah and the likes of Paul Wellstone were viewed as radicals. No one will ever know the "truth" about the air plane crash, which actually happened on my birthday.

This Democratic Party even turned against those like Russ Feingold. A time when Barbara Boxer & Nancy Pelosi were those we chose to help fight The Democratic fight. Patrick Leahy always seemed to speak out loudly and who can ever forget Robert Byrd? These are just a few of the names who at one time would have EAGERLY embraced "a Bernie Sanders" and saw him as one to restore rights that so many of us have lost. Bernie Sanders is in fact less radical than Barney Frank once was!

Demographically I'M supposed to be a true Hillary supporter, a white older woman! Ain't no way! I wonder how many here know that Gloria Steinem was very much against Hillary Clinton?

I've been tempted many times to ask the age of these rabid Hillary supporters but have decided it doesn't matter anymore, just as TRUTH and FACTS no longer seem to matter. OKAY, I've ranted on for way too long, might have something to do with the fact that I won't feel comfortable doing so after tomorrow.

I'll still stand and fight the fight of "WE THE PEOPLE" as I always have... Bernie has rejuvenated so many of us who thought we would NEVER see any Senator fight for us again like he has. So I leave you with this...
AND also...

just some feelings that linger on.

[jwirr]

11. No, I can afford to be.

[Todays_Illusion]

14. I'm not a new Democratic, they didn't mention all this conservatism to the Democrat voter.

I wondered why they were promoting what I called a nonsense fairy tale that one can be liberal and conservative at the same time on political and economic policy. It is the oxymoron equivalent of that other obfuscating phrase this group tried to sell beginning around 2010 along with that both parties are the same, let's have one party dialog promoted on all political discussion sites considered to lean liberal.

[appalachiablue]

41. Never received the memo either, and the sly major 'change' makes me livid.

New Deal, liberal FDR-JFK-LBJ Dem. here.

[Aerows]

20. I've been a Democrat from the first time I cast a vote at 18.

I need NO galvanizing, aggrandizing or legitimacy to stake my claim: I speak for myself.

I have been forged in the fires of stolen campaigns, tempered in the echoes of unfair elections and sharpened by the blood of those who had their votes cast out.

I don't ask if the Democratic party will accept me.

I ask if the Democratic party is *ready* for me?

[swhisper1]

104. Thank you

[LexVegas]

23. The Obama years must have been hell for you.

[bobthedrummer]

32. I voted 2x for both President Obama and Bill Clinton in their general elections. Wisconsin has 72

counties, Bernie Sanders won 71 of them in April. Thanks for your "input".

[Octafish]

37. For me, too. I had to face my neighbors after some got tossed from their homes by the banks.

Awkward, as I repeated his campaign promise to put Main Street ahead of Wall Street.

Geithner sacrificed homeowners to “foam the runway” for the banks

Is great phrase:

Neil Barofsky, the former special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, has published a new book, “Bailout: An Inside Account of How Washington Abandoned Main Street While Rescuing Wall Street.” It presents a damning indictment of the Obama administration’s execution of the TARP program generally, and of HAMP in particular.
…
By delaying millions of foreclosures, HAMP gave bailed-out banks more time to absorb housing-related losses while other parts of Obama’s bailout plan repaired holes in the banks’ balance sheets. According to Barofsky, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner even had a term for it. HAMP borrowers would “foam the runway” for the distressed banks looking for a safe landing. It is nice to know what Geithner really thinks of those Americans who were busy losing their homes in hard times.

CONTINUED w VIDEO and links and more letters...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/video-geithner-sacrificed-homeowners-to-foam-the-runway-for-the-banks/article/2502982

Even my Republican neighbors expected him to follow up on that promise. As most of us work for a living, none I know like Wall Street better. Down the road, a bit, the neighborhoods are filled with trust fund babies, though.

[swhisper1]

105. at times, the TTP for instance, Syria/Lybia another, both that it appears Hillary authored, so I

forgive him a little. The body of his tenure is pretty exceptional, something we wont see again for 4 yrs

[hobbit709]

24. Thomas Frank's book Listen, Liberal is a very good read on this.

Detailing how we went from the party of the working people to the party of the money people.

[m-lekktor]

26. aaah I didn't see your post until after I posted my comment lol.

I guess it is worth repeating. Good book anyway, I am currently reading it.

[hobbit709]

27. Excellent book.

[appalachiablue]

42. +10. Folks pls. read the posts here on Tommy Frank's new book, 'Listen Liberal!

What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?' for an excellent narrative of the Democratic Party's conservative transition since the 1980s.

[ChiciB1]

119. Just Finished Reading That Book! Made Me Feel Kind Of

proud of him, but also wish others here would read it too. I'm sure they don't dare. An eye-opener non-the-less.

[m-lekktor]

25. Thomas Frank gives a history of them in his new book, Listen, Liberal.

I currently am reading it and at the Bill Clinton part of the book.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

28. Not a New Democrat, I am a proud progressive and if the Democratic Party doesn't want me well then..

Maybe I'll form my own party with blackjack and hookers, in fact forget the party.

[onecaliberal]

29. No. Never.

Proud FDR dem. Pro Union, pro life, pro woman, pro single payer, free education. Pro clean energy.

[Trajan]

30. Absolutely NOT a New Democrat

FDR Liberal Democrat here, now and forever ...

New Democrats are Quislings ... GOP Wolves in DLC Clothing ...

There is a price to pay for their fraud ...

[vintx]

31. HELL NO

It's sickening to me to see how this site has changed so much - from utterly rejecting the Republican-lite policies of the new triangulating Dems to cheering them on and being so willing to chip away at the legacy of FDR

[bobthedrummer]

46. Straight PNAC style "policies/goals" in so many ways-I hear you vintx. n/t

[Vote2016]

33. I'm not a neocon, a neoliberal, or a neoDemocrat

[firebrand80]

38. Back to when Dems supported segregation?

No thanks, I like the party much better now

[mmonk]

57. The party went New Democrat in the late 80's.

Long after segregation which we addressed, not the fuck the middle clas party of today with all its lies.

[srobert]

63. No, But Back to When Dems Supported Union Membership

No one is advocating a return to segregation in the Democratic party. But some of us are advocating a Democratic party that would have never sold out American workers by outsourcing their jobs with NAFTA and TPP-like trade agreements (such as the Clintons and Obama have advocated). We'd like to return to a time when Democrats didn't tell union members one thing and Wall Street contributors something else. We're advocating that education and healthcare should be public goods. We're advocating basic social justice, and that includes eliminating unfair treatment, from the police, employers, government officials, in the military etc., based on racism and other forms of discrimination.

[bobthedrummer]

39. Kick. n/t

[JCMach1]

40. Context is important after the disasters of 80,84, and 88 it was seen as a solution to win at the

National Level in a more Conservative environment (their ideas, not mine)...

Even a lot of lefties threw their hands up and said, "we have to try something..."

That's the environment Clintonism was born in... not 'solely' New Democrat, or DLC but 'Pragmatic'...

A more negative way to think of it is starting out left and triangulating your way out from there.

This proved very effective in the beginning era of the 24hr news cycle and instant data feedback (polling).


But fast forward the the present: The multiplication of the media has led to a massive fracturing of the media. Like taking a hammer to a lens, or a crystal each tiny piece not focuses on the world. Often, that view can be warped, or distorted.

Media and public opinion have sped up even more. Who needs political parties when you can share your instant opinion on DU, Free Republic, Facebook, or Twitter? Also, political parties now cannot control access to cash $$$. Obama '08, '12, Dean '04 and even Sanders '16 have shown how powerful 'crowdsourcing' campaigns can be.

Big Data continues to make the world of poltics more binary. With the 2000 and 2010 censuses, reapportionment has led to a level of gerrymandering never experienced before in our history. Literally if you want a Mickey Mouse shaped district centered on Orlando that X% majority Republican, the software can make it so. Consequently, in Congress and as a country we have become more and more polarized. No one has to speak, or persuade as they don't need that side to get elected.

There, quite literally, is NO MIDDLE THERE anymore. Welcome to the world of binary politics...

[LWolf]

43. No, I'm not;

I've been aware of the faces behind the NEW DEMOCRATS from day one, and I've always known we were not on the same page.

[andym]

44. New Democrats only exist because of Reagan's great success in destroying liberalism

The word "liberal" was used in an effective derogatory way in 1988 by HW Bush against Dukakis. They had the Democratic party completely on the run by the end of the 80's. Why do you think the word "progressive" is used for the last 25 years and not "liberal."
The original progressive movement was in the early 1900's. Probably most national Democratic politicians have been influenced by the effects of Reaganism, since the easy recipe for GOPers to win elections was the call the Democratic opponent "a tax and spend liberal", with an emphasis on tax-- with the not too subtle meaning that the Democrat was going to take your money.

Reagan ended the liberalism that started with FDR. Progressives have been waiting for the counter movement for a long time. Bernie is trying to get if off the ground.

[vintx]

58. I'd say he's not just trying. He's succeeding. nt

[bobthedrummer]

47. The Big Tent had it's Pegs removed-by these NEW DEMOCRAT DINO's.

Keep this thread alive, add to it.

[bobthedrummer]

48. Throw them all out, people.

[bobthedrummer]

49. Why do some NEW DEMOCRATS trade agreements support the worst antilabor forces in the world?

Forces that torture and murder organizers?

[vintx]

59. Greed. That's it

They and their masters get $$$$$$ and that is all that matters.

[bobthedrummer]

50. Roosevelt's Critics (U.S. History.org)

http://www.ushistory.org/us/49f.asp

I'd add the NEW DEMOCRATS as Radicalized Roosevelt Critics at this point of US history-would you?

[wendylaroux]

51. I most certainly am not.

and they are not democrats.
H will only continue it.,

[highprincipleswork]

52. I am not even close to a NEW DEMOCRAT, and can't believe so many people want one.

Their policies have been devastating to the Democratic Party and to the country at large. Telecommunications Act, NAFTA, Crime Bill, deregulation of Wall Street and more. What a ridiculous legacy.

And the more rightward they go, the crazier the Republicans get. Witness Trump and the rest of those jokers.

We need to drift way back towards the Progressive roots our Party had in the mid-1900's, the day's of FDR and those after him. The Democratic Party held majorities in both houses for the large majority of those years and passed so much meaningful legislation, including regarding Social Security and Medicare.

No NEW DEMOCRATS for me, and if our candidate or candidates are one, they should get back to being Progressive if they want to beat Donald Trump.

[bobthedrummer]

53. So what kind of a Democrat are you? K.

[Octafish]

54. New Dealer fused with New Frontier

Until economic and social rules work for all, they’re not working.

Inspired by the legacy of Franklin and Eleanor, the Roosevelt Institute reimagines America as it should be: a place where hard work is rewarded, everyone participates, and everyone enjoys a fair share of our collective prosperity. We believe that when the rules work against this vision, it’s our responsibility to recreate them.

We bring together thousands of thinkers and doers—from a new generation of leaders in every state to Nobel laureate economists—working to redefine the rules that guide our social and economic realities. We rethink and reshape everything from local policy to federal legislation, orienting toward a new economic and political system: one built by many for the good of all.

-- http://rooseveltinstitute.org/about/

JFK Continued the New Deal as the New Frontier

The peaceful exploration of space was the best thing to happen to jobs in history. At its peak, 400,000 Americans were employed in the Apollo Project.



Imagine if President Kennedy had lived, where the nation would be today? I believe, if we could figure out how to the moon and back, we could face any problem on earth and solve it -- from ending hunger, poverty and ignorance to creating a lasting peace.

Problems today's GOP considers intractable (see Poppy Bush inaugural "More will than Wallet&quot such as joblessness, poverty, crime, would be tackled, instead of ignored, like they've done with public education. And the treasures accumulated since would be used to make life better for everybody on earth instead of sitting in a secret Swiss bank account.

But, no. The conservatives killed the New Deal after LBJ and the Great Society. For the space program, it started with Nixon. Instead, they gave the store away to War Inc, who sank the national treasure into the "Money trumps peace" crowd.

Instead of neoliberalism and all its attendant AUSTERITY, We the People need -- and DESERVE -- this kind of Big Think today in the worst of ways.

[bobthedrummer]

55. I grew up in Milwaukee during the administration of the City's third Socialist Mayor, Frank Zeidler

Frank Zeidler (Wikipedia page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zeidler

I WILL NEVER BE OR SUPPORT A "NEW DEMOCRAT", THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM TODAY.

What kind of a Democrat are you?

[srobert]

56. Clinton Supporters Are Mostly Unaware Of This

No, I'm not a "New Democrat". I want to vote for FDR. And if it hadn't been for Vietnam, LBJ would have been considered a progressive icon, voting rights, civil rights, war on poverty. Whenever I engage Clinton's supporters in debate, they seem incapable of processing any of this. They charge that Bernie Sanders isn't a "real Democrat". I always answer that in terms of policies, he is closer to being what a Democrat should be than the Clintons or Obama. I voted for Bill Clinton twice. I voted for Al Gore and John Kerry, and I voted for Obama in 2008. By 2012 the fog lifted and I began to realize that I can't keep voting for the lesser evil, because when we do, it becomes progressively more evil each time. Bernie or Bust.

[BuelahWitch]

60. I'm a third generation Roosevelt Democrat

I'm a New Deal, Great Society Democrat. Not a "New" Democrat (or warmed over Republican), never will be.

[Baobab]

62. This is about the US's new global neoliberal services deal, TiSA

[bobthedrummer]

64. ^

[bobthedrummer]

65. !

[bobthedrummer]

66. (((!)))

[LWolf]

67. No. I'm not now, never have been, never will be,

a neo-liberal.

And no matter what label it's wearing, DLC, "New Democrat," "Third Way," "Centrist," or any other label, it's neo-liberalism: destructive to the 99%, destructive to the Democratic Party, the nation, and the planet.

[bobthedrummer]

68. Yep. There it is.

[99Forever]

69. I am now, always have been, and will be forever a FDR Democrat.

For that I make not a single apology and I will give my support and vote accordingly. I will never sacrifice the core FDR Democratic principles of the Greatest President in the history of this Nation. Neoliberals will not change my mind, nor will the skeery skeery boogyman driving the clown car.

[Live and Learn]

72. The two party system now consists of the wacky conservative and the conservative parties.

I long for the liberal, progressive party.

[bobthedrummer]

75. There it is.

[bobthedrummer]

81. Kick n/t

[bobthedrummer]

82. This thread isn't dead...

[Chan790]

83. Fuck no, I'm not a New Democrat.

There was nothing wrong with the Original Democrats that necessitated the existence or creation of New Democrats.

Chan790, OD for life!

[bobthedrummer]

89. bttt n/t

[bobthedrummer]

84. Kicking for the weekend...

[LLStarks]

85. I identify as a New Dem. Do I win a prize? eom

[bobthedrummer]

88. Ask your leader if you deserve a prize LLStarks-me, I prefer gifts because they are free.

[Chan790]

91. Does the undying enmity of progressives count? n/t

[B Calm]

95. Here is your prize, you'll definitely need it at the voting booth.

[coco77]

87. K&R!

[Il_Coniglietto]

90. New Democratic Party?

Hell yeah!

http://www.ndp.ca/platform

[bobthedrummer]

92. In a democracy the "choices" should be ours, not party apparatchiks,shouldn't it???

[riderinthestorm]

93. Watched in dismay as we've triangulated ourselves into a stinking Third Way mess

No way, not me.

[bobthedrummer]

96. There it is.

[LWolf]

124. +1

[B Calm]

94. Not me! K&R

[ChiciB1]

97. THANK YOU For Posting This... UNFORTUNATELY Too Many Here

will NEVER UNDERSTAND any of it! Those of us who have been Democrats BEFORE they came along have been trying for years to open people's eyes.

BUT, now so many Congress Critters rolled over and decided NOT TO FIGHT for us or THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY that used to be!

[bobthedrummer]

98. Yep, elegant too, ChiciB1.

[azurnoir]

99. I think the going message is that there is no New Democrat-and if you use such terms

then you're probably not a real Democrat at all, even if you've voted a straight Democratic ticket your entire life

[NorthCarolina]

100. Thankfully no, I have compassion for my fellow man and despise boot strap politics.

eom

[Gomez163]

102. I'm an OLD DEMOCRAT - I'm 57

[Teamster Jeff]

106. Kick rec

[EndElectoral]

107. I'm an FDR Democrat. Third Way democrats tend to be much more centrist and oligarch friendly

[dflprincess]

109. I'm a New Deal/New Frontier/Great Society type

with a healthy dose of Farmer-Laborite thrown in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Farmer%E2%80%93Labor_Party

[senz]

110. This old boomer joined the Democratic Party when it stood for justice and fairness.

If I were a millennial, there wouldn't anything worth joining. Crazy repubs and corrupt dems -- who needs that?

[bobthedrummer]

116. Justice has been corrupted into JUST US

not we, the people senz...

[Dont call me Shirley]

111. Nope! FDR Democrat through and through! Thanks for the info, bob!

[bobthedrummer]

112. I remember a time when only the neo-cons of Bush/Cheney et al derided FDR and DUers

posted counterattacks in defense of that great President and his leadership. Not so much anymore...

[Sky Masterson]

113. New Democrats are old Republicans

.

[bobthedrummer]

115. More like REPLICANTS, Sky Masterson

In the fullest Phillip K. Dick context

[MaeScott]

121. New Dem are just old blue dogs.

[bobthedrummer]

123. Kick

[Go Vols]

127. President Obama said

his economic policies are "so mainstream" he'd be considered a moderate Republican in the 1980s.

Didn't care much for them in the '80s either.

[pokerfan]

134. Imagine that

To beat the repugs we only had to become repugs.

[MineralMan]

128. No. I've been a Democrat since 1966, when I

Turned 21. However, I campaigned for JFK in 1960, when I was just 15 years old.

Now, Bernie Sanders is a new Democrat, just since 2015.

[vintx]

132. Intentionally obtuse.

You know what the DLC was about, what New Dems are about, and what triangulation is.

[MineralMan]

133. Intentionally something, to be sure.

Fact: I have been a registered Democrat, active in third-party organization, since 1966.

Fact: Bernie Sanders has been a Democrat since 2015.

Who is the new Democrat?

Facts, not labels.

[jamese777]

136. Big Tent Party

Since its founding in 1828 by Andrew Jackson, a slave-holding, Native American land stealing, former U.S. Army General who shot several people in duels, killing one, the Democratic Party has always had a progressive/liberal wing, a conservative wing and a majority center.

[MaeScott]

137. Hell no new Dems are blue dogs that will embrace pub positions

[BootinUp]

141. My first Prez vote was for Mondale. All the ones in between and the last will be for

Democrats.

Making the liberal coalition bigger is the only way to pass more liberal policy. Stop attacking the liberal coalition.

[Overseas]

142. No I'm not a "New Democrat" either. That felt like Republican lite.

When they were doing Welfare Reform because there was some fraud in the system it seemed so cruel to hurt the 90% who legitimately needed help.

We knew the optimistic language about NAFTA was misleading. They said they'd be raising wages in other countries and bringing their environmental standards up to ours. They called those against NAFTA old fashioned, lacking understanding of the global economy.

They also pretended privatization of government services would reduce corruption and make them more efficient. The opposite has happened and I hope we can de-privatize military services and our prison system and our for-profit healthcare system.

I am more of a New Deal Democrat and was hoping we would push for FDR's Second Bill of Rights. And strengthen union power after Reagan had crushed it.

I voted for President Obama instead of Hillary last time because during the campaign he sounded like he would support our unions, push for Medicare for All, and bring us out of the Bush Wars.

I thought the Bush Crash provided a great opportunity to push for Medicare for All because at least then people devastated by financial losses and the ailing economy would not have to face medical bankruptcies. And I was between jobs at the time and went out there with protesters, as we'd been advised, to "make him do it" calling for single payer.

I voted for Bernie in our primary because we need much more dramatic change than New Democrats have offered. We need radical action on climate change. We need Medicare for All quickly because we have needed it since NAFTA and with climate change bringing in more problems.

I remember hating that "New Democrat" term at the time. Making a show of reducing the size of government to appease Republicans just fit into their propaganda that government was bad. Instead of going New Deal and showing how our taxes could benefit all of us with universal healthcare, stronger public education and free public universities and government services accountable to the people, not private profit. And stronger unions to support unions to protect us against the income inequality that pro-corporate policies create.

[bobthedrummer]

144. I signed the new terms of service-kick n/t