2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI had to block a lifelong friend because of abusive emails
This post is relevant to the Bernie Sanders campaign, including what happened in Nevada and its aftermath. As I read about people receiving threats and abusive emails, texts, and phone calls from people who support Bernie Sanders for president, it matches my personal experience with a lifelong friend who became so personally abusive of me, I had to block his emails a few weeks ago.
My friend supports Bernie Sanders for president. He has decided that Hillary Clinton is a horrible person. He has decided that I am a horrible person because I said - in one very brief email response to him about a month ago - that I voted for Hillary in my state's primary. The second sentence of my two-sentence email stated that I would gladly vote for Bernie Sanders if he is the nominee.
Ever since then, I have received a barrage of abusive emails every day. These emails contain obscenities and abuse directed at me, Hillary Clinton, women in general, people of color, gay people, and immigrants from Mexico. My friend considers himself to be super-liberal. I have known him since we were three years old. We grew up together. I still exchange Christmas cards with his parents. The entire family considers themselves to be ultra-liberal. I am certain that his parents and sister would be shocked and appalled by the emails he has sent me.
I stopped reading them and simply skimmed the subject lines. Even that became too much. A few weeks ago I blocked his emails. They now go directly to my spam filter.
My old friend is an alcoholic, prone to drunken emails. I know this about him. It's why he doesn't have my phone number or physical address. For years and years the drunken email outbursts have been manageable. He'll send a half dozen or so during a binge, apologize when he sobers up, and then everything's fine for weeks or months.
This is different. It's almost as if he has gone insane. His emails are horrible, racist, misogynistic, homophobic screeds. They include personal insults against me and my family, including people who have been deceased for decades. There are no apologies during the sober spells - simply mumbled emails that say he didn't really mean some of the worst things, but, etc. etc.
I believe that my friend's behavior is part of a national phenomenon. Somehow, a certain number of people of identify as Bernie Sanders supporters have gone completely around the bend. I am in the fifth decade of my life and I have never seen anything like this, not in any other political campaign.
Are other people experiencing similar experiences?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)I'll be loved again after the election. But it is going to be very difficult to trust them again.
Actor
(626 posts)family but never liberals.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Actor
(626 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)It's a relative.
SORRY to hear that your relationship may never mend.
Actor
(626 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)Actor
(626 posts)drawn at Bernie, and no other human being can ever be voted for again unless Bernie wins.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)The racism, homophobia, and misogyny appears to be coming from rage that those demographic groups aren't supporting Hillary.
He is in a continual rage.
LisaM
(27,800 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Reasonable posters who I've been reading for years have suddenly become reactionary, mean-spirited angry sarcasm machines. It's weird.
I am fortunate enough not to know any Bernie supporters in real life. To be fair, I live in Britain and my friends in the States are what Bernie supporters would call ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATS who are all enthusiastically supporting Hillary.
bonemachine
(757 posts)"I am fortunate enough not to know anyone who disagrees with me on this subject in real life."
I would generally not consider it fortunate to be that disconnected from reality, but to each their own.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)It's not like I deliberately avoided making friends with Bernie supporters. The REALITY is that all my friends and family support Hillary.
My "fortunate" comment had to do with not having to deal with friendship rifts like the OP because of politics. Although I can only imagine most Bernie supporters in real life are probably nothing like the ones here on DU. Let's hope not.
peace13
(11,076 posts)I'm certain that there are just as many Hillary alcoholics that do the same thing. While I don't send drunken emails, Hill has just about sent me to the bottom of the bottle a time or two.
Sorry about your friend. I'm sure he is suffering!
mcar
(42,295 posts)This must be so hard to deal with.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)I am sad to see an old friend become so bigoted, though.
mcar
(42,295 posts)But I haven't understood it from "liberals" during this president's terms either.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Supporters.
They seemed to love calling folks stupid, naive, selfish in sometimes extra spicy English.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It looks as though that is as much about your friend's issues with alcohol and possibly mental health problems as well. You should not have been subjected to that.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Maybe it's a coincidence that the trigger was the Bernie Sanders campaign, but it's matching what I'm reading about in terms of abusive emails and calls to anybody who seems to run afoul of the Sanders campaign.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I also think that at least some(in fact a significant degree of)the abusiveness from people who claim to be Sanders supporters is from right-wing online infiltrators. It is almost impossible to bet your online supporters, so really, there is little that either campaign could have done to stop that sort of person from doing what they did. Trolls don't respond to appeals to conscience and decency, being largely a group of sociopaths with arrested development issues.
Again, I'm sorry to hear that your friend acted as he did, but the Sanders campaign never wanted anyone to treat its opponents that way and we certainly never saw the deeds of the 'bros as a legitimate tactic.
If Bernie hadn't run(in other words, if HRC been nominated by acclimation)these trolls would have appeared in some other guise and might have triggered your friend's actions by some other means.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have one friend I blocked from my timeline on Facebook. No biggie. He is extremely passionate about Sanders. HA Goodman believer. I hope to be going to lunch with him soon.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)For repeating utterly discredited anti-Sanders talking points after having their verifiable refutation posted to her and (more to the point) issuing an ultimatum: a threat to unfriend anyone posting anything negative about Princess Weathervane (anywhere on FB, not just her wall).
I suspect stories like ours are far from rare. They also say absolutely nothing about either candidate...
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Many people become passionate about political campaigns, threaten to unfriend people, etc.
What I experienced is something at a completely different level. Long, hateful screeds filled with abusive language directed at me, my family, and minority groups. This person is spending hours and hours writing these emails. And they are truly abusive.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Just pointing out that this horrible election has affected most of us in one negative way or another. So over it. Cascadian secession can't come a moment too soon.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)I will not vote for him even if he is the nominee. I find what he's doing to our party to be treacherous and disgusting - fits with his 'independent' lablel. He's not a democrat. He has no ideas. He only complains and complains.
I can't watch him on tv anymore.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... a few years back.
Had to do the same to him.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)riversedge
(70,182 posts)of a friend is painful. the pain is real. Be good to yourself.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)LexVegas
(6,048 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)I have a hard time finding anyone who will admit supporting Hillary but the ones who do are asses of the highest order. I've Had to block dozens of Trump yahoos.
dchill
(38,464 posts)No, it's not.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I know.... really!
"My old friend is an alcoholic, prone to drunken emails. I know this about him. It's why he doesn't have my phone number or physical address."
This is Sanders' fault?
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Thank Goodness...
ALL of my friends who are Bernie Supporters--as passionate as they are--have every intention of voting for Hillary Clinton in the GE, and if Bernie Sanders had won the Democratic nomination, me and other Hillary Supporters would have voted for him in the GE.
LOTS of examples of people who are losing friendships over Clinton vs Sanders/primaries and probably for the upcoming GE as well.
Very sad indeed OP.
Jennylynn
(696 posts)never works. The have to change their mind on their own, for whatever reason, if they're going to change it. That's why I rarely engage. I'll tease, but rarely engage another voter away from their vote. It's a waste of time. Always has been.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Vince Foster, blah blah blah. Sorry that happened, but really? Good riddance.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)She recognizes her husband is playing fast and loose with history as he never has before. He seems very emotional about this election, and is having a hard time not being a jerk to people.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)It's one thing to say that people are angry. I get that. But the anger is all about vague emotional ideas that Hillary is an evil demon rather than any facts. It's different from any campaign I can remember.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)or any other man who voted for the Iraq war. It's just not there. There are new rules in play for HRC, new hoops to jump through. It's strange how she has to work 3X as hard to get half the credit, bit double the blame.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Cool story, bro.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)sorry for the hijack, but this could take on a life of its own...
Nanjeanne
(4,931 posts)emails to me. Perhaps you need new friends who consider it poor taste to be abusive to each other.
I wouldn't blame this on a Bernie supporter. Perhaps it's your poor judgement in friends. But *shrug*.
Akicita
(1,196 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Haveadream
(1,630 posts)He sounds incredibly troubled. Politics and religion can push people who are unstable to begin with right over the edge. High octane campaigns with an all-or-nothing narrative heighten the sense of urgency in people who are already investing too much of their self worth and "survival" on a particular candidate. Both Trump and Bernie have tapped into their supporter's rage and fear and that is enough for it to be the tipping point for some.
One of the more bizarre aspects of some of the "true believers" on both sides is that unlike those for whom the consequence of the election may be a life or death result, many of the most unhinged from Trump and Bernie are not at risk at all. That said, none of my many Bernie and even a few Trump (!) supporting friends would ever think to be rude to me and vice versa. We are extremely respectful of each other's views and demand nothing. I would never denigrate their candidate or their choice and they extend me the same courtesy. The only hostility I have encountered is online and I pretty much avoid it whenever possible.
I'm really sorry you are on the receiving end of what sounds like your friend's insanity and abuse. I'm glad you are sending his emails to spam. You don't deserve that.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)I think you make very good points.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)step 9. Alcoholics in the depth of their addiction are awful. Don't put up with it.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)You're right. I don't have to put up with it and I won't anymore.
Thanks for your nice note.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)Just turn your back.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Surely you know how to copy and paste without giving any names and email addys away?
And if they really are that terrible, you should make a police report at the very least. You did save the evidence, didn't you?
Number23
(24,544 posts)from "liberals" on this board knows that we know exactly what you're going through. And as usual, we were the ones who copped it first and worst. Sanders supporters are still calling black voters "obedient" with "plantation mentalities" and "low information voters" even now.
I don't blame you for blocking that person. Not at all.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Which is so goddamned patronizing. When SBS said Mike Brown should have "been going to college" I noticed immediately his disconnect. I was shocked to find out SBS did not know people were being jailed for not paying their speeding tickets. No one told me to notice or talk about those things.
Many of of noticed the absence of women's issues or justice etc for POC immediately when his site was up. As soon as we gave opinions and were told they were some one else's opinions.
Who thinks that way? Who doesn't realize that minimizing those issues was fucking stupid? Way too many people here. And I am not impressed by or inclined to listen to any of them.
Number23
(24,544 posts)reasons is now trying to compare what happened in Nevada to the Black Lives Matter and Ferguson protests.
I'd be shocked by the unchecked stupidity and racial cluelessness of that post and the idiocy of those high fiving it if any of the people posting that shit or celebrating it were a surprise. You use the word "disconnect" to describe these people, I have a much more profane though far more accurate one to describe them.
Who thinks that way? Who doesn't realize that minimizing those issues was fucking stupid? Way too many people here. And I am not impressed by or inclined to listen to any of them.
Exactly. We've all watched as minority and women's issues were either co-opted or dismissed. And astonishingly, both were often times done by the same damned people. Which is why most of these people just sit in threads high fiving each other's stupidity with nary a clue that the folks who are most positioned to agree or disagree aren't even willing to give them enough of the time of day to do either. When they and their candidate are finally gone, it will be a blessing. A genuine blessing.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Response to Number23 (Reply #56)
Post removed
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)3 so far, plus the ones here questioning my past
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And trouble playing well with others before this- hence, as you said, you already cut him off partially- and this primary season is just the latest excuse for the toxic behavior he would be engaging in anyway.
I see a lot of examples of the exact same phenomenon on this board. It is about people who have profound emotional problems and are taking them out on others, theyve just overlaid their own personal little psychodramas onto this year's primary season.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)This guy has been a bad alcoholic for 40 years. He has a consistent pattern. This spring, suddenly he takes a severe turn for the worse and it's all about this particular election.
The abusive emails are way beyond anything I've seen from him before. Maybe it's a coincidence that it happened to be this campaign that sent him around the bend.
However, there seems to be a national phenomenon. The interviews with people who threatened the Nevada Democratic chair reveal the same behavior and mentality.
What is it about this campaign that is causing troubled people to react this way?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)There are media-fed narratives, but I don't pay much attention to the media.
Most of my family is for Sanders, my mom supports Hillary. I have one sister who makes "bernie or bust" noises, but no one seems particularly unhinged about the whole thing. Or, any more unhinged than normal.
DU is a fucking mess, but DU is always a fucking mess, particularly during primary season: and like I said, I think some of the worst offenders when it comes to drama would be spinning drama around here regardless. It's worth noting that this is the first real (as in, constested) primary season to take place with the DU3 system. Obviously admin does not believe the system (or the members, maybe) passed the test. C'est La Vie.
But I think we'll get to the convention and a lot of the anger and stuff will smoothe over. I do remember there was a LOT of resentment and anger on the Hillary side in '08, like the PUMA crowd, and it worked out. One difference then was that there wasn't a whole lot of concrete policy difference between Hillary and Obama in '08. Others on the Sanders side might disagree, but I believe that some real steps in a more progressive direction on a few key issues- be that from the nominee, or in the platform- would make a world of difference.
I think the name calling, the insults haven't helped, and of course different people will disagree as to who is responsible or who has been pushing those memes and insults, for how long, and whether they are or aren't justified.
bonemachine
(757 posts)Your point is that someone you know to be unhinged supports Bernie, so we should consider their alcoholic rants to be "relevant to the Bernie Sanders campaign."
Did I get that right?
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Bernie attracts people with a certain kind of character trait and social bent. I leave it to posters to figure that out for themselves.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)friend. Pollutes Facebook with tirades against Bernie and anyone who supports him. It's the addiction to alcohol that does it.
I have to assume that my old pal is responsible for her own actions. To be honest with you I currently like Hillary far more than I like my old pal.
I myself do not assume that you are like her, nor that other Hillary supporters are like her. According to your reasoning, I should do just exactly that.
Also, what are your metrics for other groups? How many nasty members of a minority does it take to make that entire minority worthy of the nasty tag? Do you use raw numbers or percentages? Do you do that with just Bernie supporters or with other segments of the population, like Trump does?
What's the difference between saying that the behavior of your alcoholic friend defines all Bernie supporters and saying that the behavior of a terrorist defines all who share their stated religion or ethnicity? If your pal defines me, do other individuals also define the groups to which they belong? Or is it just with Bernie supporters that this theory of yours works?
How many LGBT arrested for crimes does it take to make it ok to claim LGBT are criminal? Apparently the answer is one alcoholic bisexual criminal would define us all.
pinskinny
(82 posts)Some may think you made this up to to somehow make Bernie look bad.
I do not think that, but some people make.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)To be clear, the types of emails he was sending me would have gotten him banned instantly here on DU. Way over the top. This has nothing to do with DU.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Sending them directly to the trash bin / spam folder is the best option.
Ignore his tantrums (whether literally, by not ever seeing them ... or figuratively, by not responding to the ones you do see) will allow the flame to burn itself out.