The difference between Clinton and Sanders. Says it all.

[seabeyond]

[flor-de-jasmim]

1. With all due respect, hogwash.

[Hortensis]

26. Probably not entirely. Bernie's commitment is to his ideology,

and he would want to impose and embed his ideology every way he could. (He would want to rebuild all older bridges and other infrastructure and use that to create good-paying government/nonprofit jobs. He'd (want to) nationalize the rope factories and require all ropes to meet strong standards and only be made of ideologically conforming materials.)

Hillary has always seemed like a person committed to leaving a prosperous, well functioning democracy as her legacy. Yes, her policies would be strongly liberal because that's what she believes in for most issues, but if she thought somewhat more conservative policies would give a better result here and there (and that does happen), or compromising with conservatives was the only way to get something done, she would. I like that in her.

She would also commit to rebuilding infrastructure, but want to use all existing national assets, including for-profit, but limit profits to sensible levels, while also creating well-paid government jobs, as we once had. She would decide that rope standards were already fine but eliminate any excess profits from federal government rope purchases.

Btw, good luck to both of them doing this over the very much not-dead bodies of the Republicans.

[Armstead]

40. This.....

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/10/31/socialist-even-conservative-could-love-burlington-mayor-sanders-was-able-out-republican-republicans/SCmh2TLifXxXRPFKC8NMjO/story.html

A Socialist Even A Conservative Could Love
BURLINGTON, Vt. — Frederick J. Bailey is a conservative man....Like many conservatives in town, Bailey had dismissed Sanders as a “kook” when he became mayor in 1981 and presumed he would not last long. But here it was four years later and Bernie, as everyone called him, was still there, sitting under his beloved portrait of Socialist Eugene Debs in City Hall.

Bailey, a banker’s son, disagreed with some of what the wild-haired mayor said, but on the bigger issues, like keeping property taxes down, they saw eye to eye. To the fury of his Republican colleagues, Bailey began to vote with the mayor.

“Other people just could not look beyond that socialist shtick of his. I just never took it seriously,” said Bailey, who later became the chairman of the board. “The truth is, he was a very decent mayor. It is a nitty-gritty job of day-by-day executive decisions and he did it well. He got things done.”

As the Democratic contest heats up, Bernie Sanders is trying to move beyond his core audience while keeping his base revved up.
As Senator Bernie Sanders’ campaign for the presidency unfurls, there is a surprising truth to be found in his eight-year tenure as mayor of Vermont’s largest city, or the “People’s Republic of Burlington” as it was often called.

Sanders, the unyielding ideologue, who once read Fidel Castro’s biography during a crucial meeting in City Hall, turned out to be a pragmatic and efficient administrator, one so fiscally conservative that some Republicans say he managed to “out-Republican the Republicans.” He just did it his way.

Determined to find alternatives to the property tax, which he considered regressive, he had municipal attorneys pore over the city charter in search of novel revenue sources. When he found the city’s insurance contracts had been repeatedly awarded to the same local companies, he applied a “radical socialist concept, competitive bidding,” as he later jokingly described it, and saved the city thousands of dollars.

Conservatives grumbled when Sanders put his sneaker-clad feet up on the table, but when his new treasurer discovered a $1.9 million surplus hidden in the budget, they grew quiet.

Walk around Burlington today and it is hard to miss Sanders’ legacy. The city’s waterfront, slated for condominiums and commercial development when he took office, now boasts a community boathouse, a science center, and a public beach.

The city’s lone downtown food store is a cooperative market that heeds 26 “Supermarket Principles,” one of them a commitment to serve low-income customers. Not far from it is the Champlain Housing Trust, a nonprofit that manages about 2,600 units of affordable housing, and is the largest such trust in the country.....

[scscholar]

55. And when you're committed more to ideology than getting things done,...

you're a fanatic.

[Hortensis]

75. Well, it's a matter of degree and good sense, isn't it?

Bernie voted with the Democratic caucus 96% or so of the time, so he's not incapable of, in that situation, doing what he had to to be reelected and whatever, but we know he also despises Democrats, so I at least have no idea who he would be as president.

But in any case, our extremely varied democracy is also these days extremely varied ideologically, and being successful at, and even making the most of, that is definitely something I feel Hillary would be far better at, and it sounds like you do too.

[merrily]

77. Actually, it's provably bullshit. When somone fainted, Bernie rushed right over to the person.

It was all over DU and the rest of the internet. Hillary supporters making crap up doesn't change that. Ask vets if they support Bernie because he made a speech.

[morningfog]

2. They got it wrong. Bernie would have invested in infrastructure

prevented the bridge from collapsing and protected to water below.

Hillary would let the bridge collapse, call it terrorism and overthrow a dictator.

[Fawke Em]

4. THIS!

Best come back of the primary season!

[Tarc]

9. Yea, not really, as it exposes the fatal flaw in most socialist-leaners

"I would have done better, if only..." is their mantra. They don't look forward to how to solve the problems at hand, they wish and cry and foot-stomp over what has already come to pass.

So yes, comfort yourself in the fanciful "I wouldas". It speaks volumes.

[Yurovsky]

15. That's nonsense. Europe provides far better social services and infrastructure ...

by adopting the very policies that Bernie is advocating.

All Hillary & her supporters want to offer is GOP-lite 3rd way policies that have done nothing but crush the poor & working class since the Reagan administration. Sure, the wealthy will pay more. THEY SHOULD PAY MORE. A LOT MORE. The only thing holding back real progress is the right wing of the Democratic Party. The GOP is on the wrong side of the arc of history, and progressives will eventually take the helm of the Party, regardless,of how hard the corporate and Wall Street forces oppose them. It makes no sense to waste 8 years having Hillary Clinton try to maintain the corporate oligarchy so that she and her pals can squeeze every last nickel out of the 99% before she rides off into the sunset.

[Baobab]

27. Thats because what they can do is dictated by their services deal.

Which gave away our rights to have public services.

[seabeyond]

37. Pay more, like 13%? Lol, hmmm. I am paying way more than our socialist leader. How does that work?

Sanders demands an increase from all of us, paying for his free, while he pays such a low rate. See, I don't really cotton to that type of hypocrisy and it is riddled in Sanders positions.

[Stargleamer]

61. "all of us"??? There you go again, misrepresenting his position

Does this look like an increase from "all of us"???




Also, again with the 13% figure (which others here have stated was off), which is just Bernie's Fed tax rate, and doesn't include how much he paid in state and local taxes.

[seabeyond]

65. That's right, we make excuses for Sanders 13% and rake Rhomney over the coals for a higher rate.

[Stargleamer]

84. "Make Excuses" for not overpaying his taxes? For taking his legitimate deductions?

You would require him to overpay his taxes or else he's guilty of some kind of ethical lapse? How many wealthy progressives do this? Forget that, how many of any political stripe and economic class intentionally do this??

Well, to answer this question, it turns out that one Mitt Romney, who you use to make your point, did:

"If Romney had simply filed normally, taking all of the deductions to which he’s legally entitled, he would have paid an effective tax rate of about 9 percent.

But that would have proven politically problematic, so purely for show, he deliberately overpaid the IRS, in order to increase his tax rate, on purpose. Romney was in the rather extraordinary position of selecting his own preferred tax rate, and then working backwards from there" - (link: <https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/romney-earned-nearly-14-million-in-2011-paid-141-percent-tax-rate-campaign-says/2012/09/21/e62e5096-0417-11e2-91e7-2962c74e7738_story.html> ) So Romney did something purely for show, which is what, in essence, you would require of Bernie. And never mind the fact that Romney's policies would have made those in his class pay less, while Bernie's would make those making as much as Bernie did pay more.

If 13.5% (yes you rounded down to better overstate your point) is too low, well Bernie didn't set that rate, and having an individual action of him paying more when he's seeking a class action so that every one making as much as he does pays more, is faulty to say the least. It's the same kind of statements that Fox News commentators put to wealthy progressives advocating progressive taxation when they have them on their show--why don't you write a check to the IRS if you think your taxes are too low? As if individual actions can substitute for the monumental class action and change.

As Kevin Drum states: "Tax laws are tax laws, and there's nothing hypocritical about following them even if you disagree with them. Just the opposite, in fact. It speaks well of Sanders that he supports changes that would hurt him personally. It's a helluva lot more than Republicans ever do." (link: <http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/04/no-bernies-taxes-dont-show-hes-hypocrite> )

[seabeyond]

30. "I would have done better, if only..."

This is exactly what we get. That is socialist'ish? Interesting to know where it comes from. I thought it was just character.

[aikoaiko]

3. Better analogy: Bernie convinces people to replace the bridge before it collapses.

[Zynx]

6. But then holds up the whole process because he doesn't like the exact way it's being financed.

[JRLeft]

8. Hillary wouldn't do a thing because she would be invested into wars on the middle east.

[Baobab]

13. Hillary brings in cheap workers who work for African and Asian subcontractors

and make almost nothing, depressing wages. They have to win if they are the winning low bidders. That's what she does. Its irreversible.

US firms wont get the work unless they lower wages too, but they wont be able to, because of the new laws.

Not telling us this is her and the neoliberal class's idea of a joke.

[cantbeserious]

5. What Utter Bull....

eom

[TCJ70]

7. Hillary would have advocated policies that caused the collapse...

Hillary would have advocated policies that caused the collapse. Waited 10-15 years to change her mind on it. Then when Sanders calls her out on it and wants to point us in a different direction to keep these things from happening he would be labeled a sexist.

[hellofromreddit]

10. Couldn't you at least say something clever?

It has the structure of a bigot's joke: (a) set up the scenario, (b) say the slur.

[bvf]

21. You *do* understand who you're addressing, right?

[hellofromreddit]

22. Hope springs eternal.

[bvf]

47. I admire your optimism. n/t

[QC]

70. no. n/t

[Eric J in MN]

11. Hillary Clinton would say the collapsed bridge

...just needs a few coats of paint. The bridge is great and was always great.

Bernie Sanders would say the collapsed bridge should be replaced.

[pinskinny]

12. And they wonder why there is such a thing as Bernie Or Bust.

Clinton surrogates and supporters like this helped create it and continue to stoke the flames.

[Nonhlanhla]

17. Really?

THIS little joke makes you OK with a Trump presidency?

Anything short of fawning over Bernie apparently counts as "stoking the flames" of BoB.

[pinskinny]

20. oh the the arrogance of Clinton supporters and surrogates for the last year.

[Nonhlanhla]

23. You know what's funny?

Bernie supporters have called Hillary every bad name in the book, and have latched onto every right wing smear of her from the last 30 years. She's been called names over and over again. Her supporters have been "analyzed" to death by smug Bernie supporters who tell us how morally pure they are, while Hillary supporters are corporatists, closet Republicans, low info voters, vagina voters, demented, sell outs, morally corrupt, etc. etc.

Meanwhile Bernie's campaign has refused to take responsibility for any wrongdoing on their side, and Bernie supporters find excuses for anything bad in his record while distorting anything in Hillary's record (which does include some bad things) to the point where she seems like evil incarnate.

There is a hell of a lot of arrogance coming from the Bernie side, and there has been for months. Even now, that it is clear that Hillary has won, you folks continue to disparage her, to insist that Bernie should really be nominated, and that she should stand back. If that isn't arrogant, I don't know what is.

[seabeyond]

36. +1. Yes. Nt

[Hortensis]

35. Pinskinny, I believe the arrogance of Clinton

supporters, and yes there is such a thing, is overly distressing to many SBSers because they are in an unhappy position in so many ways and that makes them unhappy.

If Bernie had always been winning, his supporters would not have been bothered by unhappy complaints that Hillary would be a much better president. But not unbothered so much that they were considering not voting at all.

If his colleagues overwhelmingly believed in him, instead of her, they would have smiled superciliously at the few who moved to her for political reasons. But not smiled so much that they were considering not voting at all.

If experts agreed it was his programs and numbers that were sound and achievable, and hers air dreams, they would have been the ones to get tired of explaining to HRC supporters why it was irresponsible of them to support her. But not so tired of explaining that they were considering not voting at all.

[seabeyond]

32. PUMA 2016.

[redstateblues]

53. Another Low poster for Bernie

Hmmmmm

[Alex4Martinez]

14. Hillary grabs a rope made in Malaysia, the banks and rich get first pick and some profit.

...everybody, eventually, gets a little rope but it's expensive.
...the working poor pay taxes for ALL of the rope made in Malaysia, DuPont makes a bundle.

Bernie, on the other hand, grabs a few MILLION volunteers to pick up all the rope there is and get it to the people without the meddling of DuPont and the banks.

Sounds better, doesn't it?

[Gothmog]

16. That is so very very true

[DURHAM D]

18. Perfect

[Bonobo]

19. Hillary would first do a cost/benefit analysis. Bernie would say "fuck it" and jump in. nt

[Raster]

24. Awww, someone got their Friday Brocky-bullshit talking points...

...The only way clinton grabs a rope and tries to save people is if they work for Goldman Sucks and are willing to pay the $250,000.

[Autumn]

25. Fail. Bernie would have made sure there was funding to repair or replace the bridge

and it would never have collapsed.

[Shadowflash]

28. Haha!

[phleshdef]

29. Such profound ignorance.

[-none]

31. This thread sure did not go as the OP poster thought it would,

[seabeyond]

34. Sure it did, do not assume. Also, I thinking the clever come backs are.... clever. Fun.

[grossproffit]

43. But, the primary did.

[-none]

44. It is not over.

And don't forget the FBI investigation into Hillary and her private, off the government grid, server.

This is not over yet.

[seabeyond]

49. Let there be a gotcha somewhere, since Clinton kicks ass, and Sanders has to get a win however he

can, even if it is hoping our Democratic candidate is arrested? Really? So pathetic. As a competitive person, I would be so embarrassed taking that perspective and actually saying it out loud.

[grossproffit]

73. It's over. It's sad that you're hoping she's indicted.

[frylock]

48. It's getting some atta boys from usual group of sycophants.

[hobbit709]

33. Today's biggest pile of caca del toro so far.

[seabeyond]

38. Ahhhh, and I thought it cute.

[hobbit709]

39. Cute appears to be in the minority.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Totally cute, using definition #2

adjective: cute:
1. attractive in a pretty or endearing way.

2 (North American informal)
clever or cunning, especially in a self-seeking or superficial way.

[NV Whino]

41. See, that's where we need Christie

He would have closed the bridge, and there wouldn't have been anyone on it in the first place.

Just in case.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

42. Unfortunately, Hillary's Wall Street's Senator, and saves as many banksters as she can

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Is that an Iraqi bridge, a Syrian bridge or a Libyan one? nt

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

46. This is the MOST ignorant post I've read EVER on DU.

[polly7]

50. What a stupid, sad post. nt.

[redstateblues]

51. Bernie would break up the big banks!

[Broward]

52. Hillary only jumps in to save Wall Streeters and other members of the moneyed elite.

Everyone else is SOL.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Says it all: Posts hidden by Jury: 11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=139846&sub=trans

[redstateblues]

58. So easy to get hides with 85% BSS on DU

They are a very touchy bunch.

[seabeyond]

60. Ya, right. Uh Oh, that was one of those hides. You know. Ya, right. Nt

[seabeyond]

59. Oh Noes!!!! You got me. Right in the heart, as I stumble back, off balance, embarrassmen and shame

[KPN]

57. Stupid.

[Jake Stern]

62. Let's make it more accurate, shall we?

A bridge is showing signs of wear and Bernie pushes for more funding to repair it and launches an investigaton on how the bridge got that far and who let it happen. Hillary Clinton anxiously awaits the results of the latest poll on whether people like the bridge and think it should be repaired. Upon seeing the polls show support for the bridge and it's repair, she has her speechwriter bang out a five minute address she can deliver to the people showing she hears them loud and clear and how she understands their desire to repair the bridge but she announces that Republicans won't likely give her the funds so, unfortunately, it's just going to collapse anyway.

[bonemachine]

67. Nailed it.

I was writing this same post out, but then I figured someone had already got this one.

[seabeyond]

69. Sanders has alienated congress so much that they all shrug, the bridge collapses and no one is

around to rescue.

[vintx]

72. THIS

[My Good Babushka]

63. If the mortgage disaster is any template

Hillary would blame the people on the bridge for its collapse, just like she blamed the borrowers. Then she'd bail out the bridge builders and make sure they don't face any criminal charges.

[GeorgeGist]

64. In other words ...

party unity my ass.

[workinclasszero]

66. Love it!

[ucrdem]

68. Bernie makes a speech about how millions of people are tired of big money in politics and corruption

and those speeches Hillary gave must be really good if Goldman Sachs paid a million dollars hahaha and and and and and

[LexVegas]

71. People at the rally would claim the victims didn't look scared, so probably did not need help. nt

[seabeyond]

81. Lol sittin at work, this one made me laugh out loud. Nt

[Ash_F]

74. Clinton lobbied for maintaining 31 cent minimum wage for Haitians.

Who is being drowned?

[vintx]

80. *crickets*

... of course

[CanadaexPat]

76. Bernie ensures adequate funding for piblic works

so bridges don't fail. Hillary spends money on war instead and then calls for cutbacks in Social spending to repair infrastructure when bridges fall. If it's an election year, she might go to the site of the collapse and blame Republicans.

[dchill]

78. Hillary has never grabbed a rope to save ANYONE.

She doesn't even open her own gum.

[eastwestdem]

79. Totally true! The Sandroids are mad because it really does hit home! nt

[immoderate]

82. Great analogy! Hillary HAPPENS to be a hero. Bernie HAPPENS to be an idiot!

Hilarious line about the nylon and hemp!

What's more lame than an analogy?

This is reminiscent of adolescent jokes that incorporate the punch line into the set-up. Like: There are three guys named Screw You, Fuck Yo Mama, and Punch My Lights Out, and they walk into a bar...

--imm

[pansypoo53219]

83. bullshit. bernie would have FUNDED infrastructure before the collapse.

its that VISOON THING. bernie is a man w/ a plan. hillary has that woman card. and her plans? NIBBLES.

[ThePhilosopher04]

85. That's the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Takes some stupid motherfuckers to come up with that shit.