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insta8er

(960 posts)
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:02 PM May 2016

The question is now: Which is WORSE for America - Hillary or Trump?

Last edited Sun May 22, 2016, 07:19 PM - Edit history (1)

A quick analysis of some of the problems --

1) They are both shameless liars. Thanks to the miracle of YouTube, five seconds of Internet research will provide endless examples of Hillary and Trump smugly proclaiming "as I've always said" along with the video of them proclaiming the exact opposite stances. Hillary is famous for her lawyer like word parsing (the FBI has apparently NEVER contacted her for an interview, but according to her spokesman that is because they are setting it up through her lawyer who is in daily contact with them), while Trump babbles on in a non-comprehensible fashion with "Twitter wars" his favorite pastime. Result: two narcissistic personalities who will say anything the listener wants to hear, and no clue as to what either will really do.

2) They both have legal problems. Hillary is directly responsible for 38 civil lawsuits against the State Department and is currently the subject of a year long FBI investigation. Trump is being sued for fraud with his "Trump University" project, a history of using bankruptcy to reorganize debt, and has been a part of over fifty suits both as Plaintiff and Defendant. Neither of these individuals are dealing with "nuisance" suits; they all appear to be self inflicted stupidity.

3) Questionable "charitable" issues. The Clinton Foundation took millions of dollars from foreign interests while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State despite having signed an agreement not to do so, with both she and her famous spouse collecting millions in questionable "speaker fees" from organizations with regulation issues. Meanwhile, Trump has his own accounting problems, with "raising money for veterans" just one example of problems with his "invisible money" accounting systems.

4) Purported plans for America. I wish Trump could win this one hands down in the "is he a lunatic?" category. From his plans to extort money from NATO allies to threatening immigrants to Roe v Wade concerns, the words misogynistic xenophobic racist seem appropriate. Unfortunately, Hillary's history of supporting fracking, bad trade policy and tragic foreign policy debacles terrify anyone who looks at past performance as an indicator of future performance, while her cruelty toward children (advocating for rejecting bus loads of South American refugee children, votes on cluster bomb usage and countless dead from her "regime change" adventures) only began with the "Welfare Reform" she supported during her husband's presidency.

5) Family problems. Trump is on his third marriage, and his current wife's naked modeling photos are easily found on the Internet. Hillary is still married to the world's most famous adulterer who is in the history books as being impeached for lying under oath. Since "slut shaming" is considered rude, not many people are talking about either spouse.

6) Popularity problems. In a polarized electorate, both Hillary and Trump fight for "most disliked" with on average two voters actively despising them for every voter who likes or finds them tolerable. Support is voiced as "voting against the other candidate" as opposed to "voting for" a preferred candidate. Clinton fundraising and Clinton Foundation money have assured Hillary of establishment support, but over half of the rank and file Democrats are loudly supporting anybody but her. Meanwhile, establishment Republicans appear to be horrified by their candidate, with some party leaders promising to support the Democratic candidate instead because they find his public persona repugnant.

7) Transparency issues. Trump is publicly a bad candidate, but since he is not beholden to anyone, he says what he thinks. He has criticized the Iraq War and the people who allowed it to occur without consequences. He is a blowhard and an asshole who has lowered the tone of public discourse, and gleefully shattered any pretense that the Republican Party doesn't suck. Unfortunately, Hillary has demonstrated complete contempt for the rule of law, and in paranoid fashion, hid government records (her emails) from the public for over six years/failed to comply with FOIA law. She made agreements with President Obama on how State Department business would be conducted, then broke those agreements while using the family "foundation" to enable back door access to NSA and CIA classified intelligence without reporting the security breeches. She appears to have no understanding of the seriousness consequences to the public perception of government transparency, and has actually rolled her eyes at "email questions". A further concern is that any press identification of inappropriate or criminal behavior by her or her team is automatically derided by her supporters as "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Bullshit" (tm) which actually disables the safeguards of a free press to investigate corruption.

At the end, with the choice between Trump's INEXPERIENCE AND OVERT INCOMPETENCE when it comes to good government versus Hillary's COVERT BAD DECISION MAKING AND LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY CONCERNS, it becomes impossible to decide which will actually be worse for America. Both can lie with varying levels of sincerity, and neither is trustworthy. One will sell out American interests publicly, while the other will do it behind closed doors.

I support Bernie Sanders, but if the choice is between Hillary and Trump, my answer is "NONE OF THE ABOVE".

Edit: Received approval from original poster to use this.

290 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The question is now: Which is WORSE for America - Hillary or Trump? (Original Post) insta8er May 2016 OP
Bernie StayFrosty May 2016 #1
Tax hikes that would save us thousands a year. Fawke Em May 2016 #5
There arent enough doctors, nurses, or hospitals for.... JaneyVee May 2016 #9
This is a shit thread but your post ain't much better. Hassin Bin Sober May 2016 #150
Her supporters are right wingers. JRLeft May 2016 #226
So of course then the poor should have not healthcare! Silver_Witch May 2016 #228
Our hospitals and medical care centers will be better organized if we have single payer. JDPriestly May 2016 #261
Stay crunchy my friend Ash_F May 2016 #10
Save us all, elleng May 2016 #12
Bernie's going to tax certain stock transactions and the very rich. senz May 2016 #30
I would add the the would re-prioritize where our tax dollars are spent and audit the Pentagon. Dustlawyer May 2016 #206
Massive? tazkcmo May 2016 #106
LOL Baobab May 2016 #163
You prefer Trump over Bernie? That should be your last post. Arugula Latte May 2016 #175
And you should stop putting words in other people's mouths StayFrosty May 2016 #178
thats not what was said, you are a flamethrower larkrake May 2016 #184
The question is which is worse? StayFrosty said Bernie is worst of all. Arugula Latte May 2016 #196
Is this not the Idabriggs post?? Peacetrain May 2016 #2
Shameless plagerism WhiteTara May 2016 #4
Yes. The first post was hidden, but this one survived on a Arkansas Granny May 2016 #24
We have definitely gone round that proverbial bend Peacetrain May 2016 #39
maybe because it is a dose of reality larkrake May 2016 #248
This message was self-deleted by its author JTFrog May 2016 #235
None of the Above will be getting my vote in November. SheilaT May 2016 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #62
+1...me to. yourout May 2016 #79
me 3 840high May 2016 #136
Me, four. chervilant May 2016 #278
Operation Chaos 2016 JaneyVee May 2016 #6
Bogus Premise. Octafish May 2016 #131
The only right wing infiltration is the 3rd way into MY party... Yurovsky May 2016 #219
Not right wing, more a disgusted dem larkrake May 2016 #249
Alert. Dupe Post. Previous post was hidden. Native May 2016 #7
And this one was a 4-3 leave mcar May 2016 #86
Jury shopping pure and simple: Admins need to remove this abusive poster alcibiades_mystery May 2016 #114
This post is not appropriate Demsrule86 May 2016 #217
and your favorite group is ask the administrators. Seriously? B Calm May 2016 #244
Trump LyndaG May 2016 #8
And then four years later, we get someone good in the office! scscholar May 2016 #36
That's what I was told about Reagan in 1980. thucythucy May 2016 #180
You forgot one. He would have our nation openly at war with jwirr May 2016 #45
this is what happens restorefreedom May 2016 #11
AMEN! insta8er May 2016 #15
Trump is beating Bernie by millions of votes. Not Hillary. JaneyVee May 2016 #16
apples and oranges. and since caucuses don't register votes restorefreedom May 2016 #19
Trump is beating Bernie by millions of votes. Not Hillary. JaneyVee May 2016 #22
All the polls say Trump beats Hill and Bernie beats Trump. senz May 2016 #31
Hate to burst your bubble, bro.... JaneyVee May 2016 #55
Calling me "bro?" senz May 2016 #63
Facts are abusive now. JaneyVee May 2016 #67
They have to be facts first. -none May 2016 #81
ALL the Polls??? TomJulie May 2016 #105
thanks, but a pro hillary prop opinion piece doesn't cut it restorefreedom May 2016 #130
HA! take foot from mouth larkrake May 2016 #246
... SidDithers May 2016 #13
Well said. Thank you (nt) question everything May 2016 #33
That says it all! mcar May 2016 #87
This ^^^^^!!! Mz Pip May 2016 #108
And not a progressive treestar May 2016 #120
+1 Don't be Morans!!!!!!! BootinUp May 2016 #146
--- or a remotely equivalent outcome. Martin Eden May 2016 #229
Yet Bernie and Trump agree on more! JaneyVee May 2016 #14
Yet Hillary and Trump have the same paymasters. insta8er May 2016 #17
WTF is a paymaster? JaneyVee May 2016 #20
A paymaster is someone who offers you a bribe. Shemp Howard May 2016 #42
No. You perform a service and you get paid for it and it is done. JaneyVee May 2016 #66
They are multimillionaires because they took those bribes! Shemp Howard May 2016 #85
Uh, you realize they also write books and collect govt pensions??? JaneyVee May 2016 #92
Book royalties and pensions DON'T add up to multi-millions. Shemp Howard May 2016 #94
You're right, they don't need it arikara May 2016 #128
Probably best to save your breath. Juicy_Bellows May 2016 #69
well. Trump is internationally contacted, Hillary is just US known, she was ignored as SOS larkrake May 2016 #250
Hill and Trump are 1 percenters and GREAT friends. senz May 2016 #34
I cannot believe that shit like this is allowed to stand. Arkansas Granny May 2016 #18
It's time for Skinner to call it .. the BS cheerleaders are becoming unhinged n/t SFnomad May 2016 #25
Call him! insta8er May 2016 #46
Right! We can't have democracy at Democratic Underground! immoderate May 2016 #127
Then alert, and trust in a DU jury. (nt) Shemp Howard May 2016 #44
Looking at some of the posters in this thread, it has already been done. insta8er May 2016 #49
It was alerted on. I was on the jury. The vote was 3-4 to leave it. Arkansas Granny May 2016 #51
This post was originally inspired by Skinner asking "which is worse?" IdaBriggs May 2016 #159
Ida, I get the idea that people don't read the article just the headline? insta8er May 2016 #280
A duplicate OP to this one was alerted .. and shut down. SFnomad May 2016 #56
Can you believe the crap one reads on this board?????? Beacool May 2016 #204
That such a question is being posted on a Democratic site is shameful question everything May 2016 #21
Meanwhile we should forget about everything else the coronated one is guilty of? insta8er May 2016 #26
Go vote for Trump then. JaneyVee May 2016 #27
I won't, I just won't vote for the corporate one. Make sure not to come and complain here insta8er May 2016 #35
LOL. Youre gonna lecture about complaining? JaneyVee May 2016 #53
LOL you are going to become good at it with your "madam president" insta8er May 2016 #54
I'll take a Madam President over a Madman President anyday. JaneyVee May 2016 #60
That one is actually quite funny! LOL you outdid yourself today.. insta8er May 2016 #65
I am not aware of any coronation question everything May 2016 #29
Yes, we're not supposed to look too closely at the candidates. senz May 2016 #37
We do. This is why we have primaries and caucuses question everything May 2016 #52
I can't get excited about republican-lite Garland icecreamfan May 2016 #177
I think he is just a carrot larkrake May 2016 #251
Trump, no question Retrograde May 2016 #23
Dumbfuck question. Dumbfuck conclusion. muriel_volestrangler May 2016 #28
1 Tbsp of Arsenic vs 1 Tsp of Arsenic. I'll pass on both. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #32
So will you take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. One of the 99 May 2016 #38
I always do. Who's Mikey? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #40
So you will take responsibility for the damage Trump does to this country? One of the 99 May 2016 #41
No. I'm not voting for him. Who's "Mikey"? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #43
Then you are not taking responsiblity One of the 99 May 2016 #48
I'll take responsibility for voting against him. Who's Mikey? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #57
Only if you vote for the one person that actually has a chance to beat Trump One of the 99 May 2016 #61
There are no facts, only interpretations. Friedrich Nietzsche Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #68
I can only assume Life cereal Mikey. Juicy_Bellows May 2016 #72
There is one fact. One of the 99 May 2016 #82
Sorry. That's your interpretation. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #97
No that is a fact and you know it. One of the 99 May 2016 #100
Still your interpretation. My interpretation differs from yours. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #103
Not interpetation but an excuse One of the 99 May 2016 #107
Another interpretation. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #140
No, another excuse Mikey. One of the 99 May 2016 #223
I'll take responsibility for damage inflicted by Bill Clinton. senz May 2016 #59
So did I and voted for Obama twice too. One of the 99 May 2016 #70
So work to make Bernie the nominee. senz May 2016 #73
I voted for him One of the 99 May 2016 #78
This is the final push. Do everything you can. It matters. senz May 2016 #93
But it is important to remember that it doesn't stop with the President. One of the 99 May 2016 #96
Will you take responsibility for what the other candidate does to the country? senz May 2016 #47
Yes One of the 99 May 2016 #50
2000? Dubya? senz May 2016 #71
Exactly One of the 99 May 2016 #74
Gore is a noble patriot compared to Hillary Clinton. senz May 2016 #76
That's not what we were told in 2000 One of the 99 May 2016 #80
I voted for Gore & scolded the hell out of the Naderites. senz May 2016 #89
Hopefully not. One of the 99 May 2016 #91
"Wine is fine, but whiskey's quicker. Suicide is slow with liqueur." liberal_at_heart May 2016 #125
Liquor is quicker, but candy is dandier. raging moderate May 2016 #148
I was a Democrat for 20 years. I am now an Independent. I have seen liberal_at_heart May 2016 #156
I'm a Bernie supporter, but I think Hillary is 1000 times better than Trump democrattotheend May 2016 #58
Gender neutral term, referring to the behavior of candidates' spouses. IdaBriggs May 2016 #162
Not affairs, more pay to play prostitution, its politics larkrake May 2016 #252
I guess it depends on what kind of America we want in the future. Feathery Scout May 2016 #64
Hillary scares me more than Trump relative to Social Security. yourout May 2016 #75
Hillary scares me more when it comes to foreign crusades to 'democratize', i.e. destroy more Purveyor May 2016 #88
more lives lost to war and more money down the drain. Then we get told there is no liberal_at_heart May 2016 #116
My Fear Too pmorlan1 May 2016 #95
Yes I am sick to death of all these "grand bargains". It must stop. liberal_at_heart May 2016 #110
That is because you're forgetting what a cossetted, narcissistic rich-boy liar he is. raging moderate May 2016 #205
Do you have a link creeksneakers2 May 2016 #77
Yes. You can view the interview on the YouTube link below. IdaBriggs May 2016 #158
He says her lawyer is in contact with the FBI creeksneakers2 May 2016 #161
Actually, there is. She had also stated that her people hadn't been contacted IdaBriggs May 2016 #166
Didn't this happen creeksneakers2 May 2016 #167
They started the interviews (Huma's first) in April. IdaBriggs May 2016 #169
Are you sure she said no aides were interviewed? creeksneakers2 May 2016 #172
May 3rd. I posted about the discrepancy that same week. IdaBriggs May 2016 #173
Thanks for the links creeksneakers2 May 2016 #198
Except if her representatives meant lawyers... IdaBriggs May 2016 #199
She wasn't asked if her lawyers had contact creeksneakers2 May 2016 #201
Gasp and pearl clutching alert Jackilope May 2016 #83
She's fundamentally sane. He is not. cali May 2016 #84
Neither is fundamentally sane. senz May 2016 #129
You forgot that Trump says has a bigger Penis than Rubio. emulatorloo May 2016 #90
Okay, I've got to go find the Ida OP. senz May 2016 #104
Link here: ha ha, I added the Penis thing myself, as he and Rubio were so juvenile about it. emulatorloo May 2016 #111
Hey: some of us do not consider "cocks" appropriate here. senz May 2016 #119
Hey: Trump and Rubio brought it up, not me. emulatorloo May 2016 #153
It was hidden by a jury three minutes before this IDENTICAL OP was posted alcibiades_mystery May 2016 #113
It looks like Ida's OP was censored by censorious authoritarians. senz May 2016 #115
Yes I too would have like to see credit given. emulatorloo May 2016 #117
It was actually inspired by a post with Skinner asking if there was a difference. IdaBriggs May 2016 #221
Thanks for info! emulatorloo May 2016 #224
I bet if you took a blind Clinton vs. Trump poll of DUers only AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #98
Flagrant abuse of these boards: You knew dfamn well that the identical post was locked at 1:58 alcibiades_mystery May 2016 #99
Both, Bernide is the only good candidate. pdsimdars May 2016 #101
A friend of mine said it is like having to choose between senz May 2016 #102
Your "friend" is fucking unhinged.. SidDithers May 2016 #145
What a stupid fucking question... Trump is worse for America kdmorris May 2016 #109
Apparently there is demwing May 2016 #134
Seriously? kdmorris May 2016 #137
Seriously. In fact, I'll go one further demwing May 2016 #174
^^ This, Exactly ^^ (nt) Ino May 2016 #179
Trump is likely to have a GOP Congress creeksneakers2 May 2016 #208
So this drek gets kept at 3-4 Tarc May 2016 #112
Forum hosts and Administrators need eyes on this behavior alcibiades_mystery May 2016 #121
And yet the topic is worthy of discussion. senz May 2016 #124
Apologies - we took the kids to see "Angry Birds" with me taking IdaBriggs May 2016 #164
Thanks, Ida. senz May 2016 #182
This message was self-deleted by its author NowSam May 2016 #118
A LOT of people dislike and distrust Clinton. A LOT. Miles Archer May 2016 #122
If you really think that's a question and if that's your real answer then you shouldn't be here. ucrdem May 2016 #123
+ infinity etherealtruth May 2016 #126
I support Bernie Sanders (a Democrat) during this primary. IdaBriggs May 2016 #222
If that is the choice, we are ROYALLY SCREWED. senz May 2016 #132
I need look no further to know you are a white male. Nt NCTraveler May 2016 #133
And you are soooooo wrong it's not even funny anymore how wrong you are. insta8er May 2016 #135
I don't think I am wrong. Nt NCTraveler May 2016 #141
Whatever you need to tell yourself. insta8er May 2016 #147
Use of the phrases "the gender card" and "the race card" tell me anything about you I couldn't gollygee May 2016 #144
But God forbid, if I would ever assume that you were a female in her late 50s..I mean wow that would insta8er May 2016 #138
You are about fifteen years on the high side. Nt NCTraveler May 2016 #142
Thank you, I was not interested in that information. insta8er May 2016 #143
Add to this list the fact that the Koch Bros seem to prefer Hillary demwing May 2016 #139
So you're asking which is the greater of two evils? imagine2015 May 2016 #149
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE NONE OF THE ABOVE! seekthetruth May 2016 #151
It is sad that is what we have to chose from but anyone would be doc03 May 2016 #152
No. The question is whether progressives can work toward FDR's goals within the Democratic Party or Vote2016 May 2016 #154
Much thanks and appreciation -- I totally support this posting! IdaBriggs May 2016 #155
Flip a coin. -nt- NorthCarolina May 2016 #157
what a pile rurallib May 2016 #160
No it is not. The question NOW, as in right NOW, is which is the better nominee-Bernie or Hillary pdsimdars May 2016 #165
This is not a question. Nonhlanhla May 2016 #168
If you need help in answering this question MyNameGoesHere May 2016 #170
What's better, death by trampling or gunshot? jfern May 2016 #171
Are you real ? hertopos May 2016 #176
''The question is now: Which is WORSE for America - Hillary or Trump?'' Shadowflash May 2016 #181
Just vote for eho you want to. rozdeep May 2016 #183
Hillary will not pack the courts with conservative assholes apnu May 2016 #185
She would pack them with Wall Street-friendly judges and justices. senz May 2016 #186
Know that for a fact do you? apnu May 2016 #187
I know she is bought by Wall Street. senz May 2016 #192
more corporate than wall street, same animal, but wide ranging larkrake May 2016 #254
I don't know that to be a true statement. basselope May 2016 #190
really? MFM008 May 2016 #253
Really. basselope May 2016 #275
Hillary would be much, much worse on foreign policy. AtomicKitten May 2016 #188
Interesting, this was posted earlier today and was a 5-2 hide. If at first you don't succeed... George II May 2016 #189
I'll answer the question and it will probably get hidden. Hillary is worse. basselope May 2016 #191
This is a gamble I don't wish to play. However, my thoughts did consider that factor as well. Xyzse May 2016 #195
I think most of us feel this way, thanx larkrake May 2016 #255
Thank you. Xyzse May 2016 #288
Thomas Jefferson would be so proud of you. Eko May 2016 #193
Jesus christ jcgoldie May 2016 #194
My exact reaction. Beausoir May 2016 #197
Are you even a Democrat? Beacool May 2016 #200
I can't imagine a POC asking this question underthematrix May 2016 #202
What is the goal of posts like this? BellaLuna May 2016 #203
Balanced discussion not aimed at either Hill or Bernie folk is my guess larkrake May 2016 #256
I'll get hidden for this probably, onenote May 2016 #207
How much better will the US be under president Clinton than Sanders Buzz cook May 2016 #209
cant think of one thing she has offered, actually larkrake May 2016 #257
That is a bullshit question. Rex May 2016 #210
Thrump is the worst. That guy does not know his mouth from akbacchus_BC May 2016 #211
This is just a rude and terrible OP. barrow-wight May 2016 #212
well, the real picture isnt always rosy. The blunt truth rarely is larkrake May 2016 #258
It may be blunt but it's far from truth. barrow-wight May 2016 #263
I agree to disagree, I see the same vision larkrake May 2016 #266
I hope you're right for all our sakes. barrow-wight May 2016 #270
I wont vote for either I only vote for good people- Kerry and Obama larkrake May 2016 #272
Good luck to all of us then. barrow-wight May 2016 #273
Maybe, but he didnt get up and do a rah-rah speech for it, pitchfork in hand larkrake May 2016 #284
Ah. What creative uses of nuance you employ. barrow-wight May 2016 #289
Our very own Richard Nixon cliffordu May 2016 #213
Why are you being so facetious? You very well know that Mr. Sanders akbacchus_BC May 2016 #214
Bernie Sanders is the most electable candidate in the end. JDPriestly May 2016 #215
Jury shopping. This is shameful. auntpurl May 2016 #216
he did not say they were the same. Their faults are not totally in sync larkrake May 2016 #260
It is an INSANE question. My goodness, has the LUNACY really gone this far? RBInMaine May 2016 #218
Rec for pissing off all of DUs right wingers! PowerToThePeople May 2016 #220
More Trump fluffing. JoePhilly May 2016 #225
+1 BootinUp May 2016 #236
Anyone who believes this is a legitimate question is either a liar or an idiot. Maven May 2016 #227
or they're right demwing May 2016 #232
The support is self-evident to all except those who are blind or wish to deceive Maven May 2016 #233
Ah... the "No true Scotsman" fallacy! demwing May 2016 #234
Or opem-minded. Some may need to look that up in a dictionary larkrake May 2016 #262
No, the Question RIGHT NOW is: Which is better, Hillary or Bernie 2banon May 2016 #230
I support Bernie. I dislike and distrust Hillary Clinton. Trump is orders of magnitude worse. Martin Eden May 2016 #231
RESPONSE FROM SKINNER RE: THIS DISGUSTING THREAD auntpurl May 2016 #237
Yes, we should make DU more like the real world. Where money buys you speech! insta8er May 2016 #238
If you want to have free speech that includes pro-Trump rhetoric auntpurl May 2016 #239
Listen, I don't care about Trump..but the fact is that it looks like it is going to be between him insta8er May 2016 #241
That is not what you did; you're being disingenuous. auntpurl May 2016 #242
Our conversation is done....have a nice day! insta8er May 2016 #243
No hes not, we need to be aware of and know the enemy larkrake May 2016 #264
Trump is too loony larkrake May 2016 #247
We deserve a better choice than these 2 candidates. They both have terrible unfavorability ratings. B Calm May 2016 #240
You're confusing "analysis" with "editorial that avoids citing any objective sources." LanternWaste May 2016 #245
K&R. JDPriestly May 2016 #259
Nope: the question is still - thank goodness - who is best for the Democratic Party. Betty Karlson May 2016 #265
agreed, but the OP doesnt include Sanders larkrake May 2016 #268
Long-term or short-term? merrily May 2016 #267
good question! larkrake May 2016 #269
. merrily May 2016 #271
What bullshit. Maybe you don't belong here? Lil Missy May 2016 #274
Trump would be worse bigwillq May 2016 #276
Just this: Drum May 2016 #277
It's only a "question" for morons. whatthehey May 2016 #279
My answer is Faux pas May 2016 #281
Since Clinton will be the nominee...and since this site is set up to HELP ELECT DEMOCRATS... brooklynite May 2016 #282
I sincerely hope anyone that thinks Trump would be better than Hillary workinclasszero May 2016 #283
Trump, duh. demmiblue May 2016 #285
When someone is an enthusiastic member of the crowd that launched cpwm17 May 2016 #286
The answer is always: Trump. n/t Orsino May 2016 #287
transparency is a wonderful thing nt geek tragedy May 2016 #290

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
5. Tax hikes that would save us thousands a year.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:05 PM
May 2016

My taxes might go up, but I'd no longer be forced to pay a private company thousands for some limited access to healthcare. I'd pay $441 more a year and could go to the doctor when I needed to.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,460 posts)
150. This is a shit thread but your post ain't much better.
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:16 PM
May 2016

How did you turn visiting a doctor "when I needed to" to "whenever you wanted" ?

People need to go to the doctor more, not less. It beats the hell out of the emergency room bills we all pay for. Somehow, we have enough doctors to treat people in the most expensive and inefficient way possible in the ER. Who the hell goes to the doctor anyway when not needed?

My brother is dead. And I'm certain it's because of health insurance he couldn't afford to use.

Two people I know are permanently disabled from simple infections that went untreated. One is on the lung transplant list from a tooth abscess.

Another is on permanent disability you and I pay for on top of probably a half million dollars in surgeries you and I paid for - for a broken toe that turned in to a bone infection that turned in to a spine abscess. Now my friend has to piss in a bag and walk with a walker. For life.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
261. Our hospitals and medical care centers will be better organized if we have single payer.
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:15 AM
May 2016

They manage to do this in Europe. I lived there. (I repeat that over and over on DU.) The healthcare was great.

It's a matter of organization. Single payer means doctors have far less paperwork for different insurance companies to deal with. It's significantly simpler to administer.

We are already starting to use nurse practitioners for certain things we used to have a doctor do. That practice will become more common.

We can safely save a lot of money in our healthcare and rely on doctors to do the work that they either can do best or that they alone can do.

Everyone wins.

Most developed countries have single payer. It can be organized in different ways. It takes the for-profit out of healthcare and organizes health-care delivery better.

Our system of different for-profit insurance companies, each with a list of doctors, difficulty transferring from one company, one list to another is terrible.

I left a job -- had to leave my doctor too because the insurance list of doctors in the company my new employer used did not include the doctor I had seen when I worked for my previous employer. That is ridiculous. It's not good healthcare.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
30. Bernie's going to tax certain stock transactions and the very rich.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:17 PM
May 2016

We don't need your rightwing meme.

Dustlawyer

(10,504 posts)
206. I would add the the would re-prioritize where our tax dollars are spent and audit the Pentagon.
Sun May 22, 2016, 11:20 PM
May 2016

The savings from waste, fraud and abuse could fund our public schools and more!

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
175. You prefer Trump over Bernie? That should be your last post.
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:48 PM
May 2016

If there were any justice here, you'd be PPRed.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
196. The question is which is worse? StayFrosty said Bernie is worst of all.
Sun May 22, 2016, 10:37 PM
May 2016

So, that means he thinks Trump is better than Bernie.

Response to Peacetrain (Reply #2)

Response to SheilaT (Reply #3)

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
6. Operation Chaos 2016
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:05 PM
May 2016

This post was hidden when posted by another poster. This is a memo that has gone out copied and pasted word for word. Rightwing infiltration of DU

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
131. Bogus Premise.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:35 PM
May 2016

Hillary has yet to secure nomination. Were she to become the Democratic nominee, she is INFINITELY more qualified to serve as President than Donald the Short-Fingered Vulgarian.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
219. The only right wing infiltration is the 3rd way into MY party...
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:41 AM
May 2016

Bernie is the Right Wing's worst nightmare. Sadly the Right (in the form of Wall Street & corporate interests) has bought and paid for one party for years (the GOP) and is hoping to close on the deal to buy out the Democratic Party via Hillary this year.

I just cannot fathom how all of that dirty money is no big deal to half of the voters in the Democratic primaries. It tells me that the people are down to their last best o-tip - Bernie - to fight back this corporatist oppression.

Demsrule86

(69,358 posts)
217. This post is not appropriate
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:33 AM
May 2016

and advocates voting against the Democratic nominee...it is also filled with unproven and untrue smears against Hillary Clinton our nominee. I can not believe this is allowed to remain. Well if a post like this remains due to jury-rigging, the only thing ond can do is put the poster on ignore.

LyndaG

(683 posts)
8. Trump
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:06 PM
May 2016

He said he would appoint justices that would strike down Roe Vs. Wade. And, he would dismantle all the progress made by President Obama. Default on our debt? Trump would crash the economy worse than GWB.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
36. And then four years later, we get someone good in the office!
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:20 PM
May 2016

You're talking about playing chess instead of a Bernie checkers.

thucythucy

(8,316 posts)
180. That's what I was told about Reagan in 1980.
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:04 PM
May 2016

"He'll be so bad, so incompetent, we'll get a REAL progressive in 1984."

Was a BS argument then, is a BS argument about Trump today.

You're not playing chess, you're playing Russian roulette.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
45. You forgot one. He would have our nation openly at war with
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:25 PM
May 2016

each other with his hate messages.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
11. this is what happens
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:07 PM
May 2016

when the eatablishment riggs a process to prop up a weak candidate who can't win. now, they did not do that on the gop side, even though they tried to defeat trump and stick in bush. but he managed to get through. the dems have the supers and all the collusion and cheating to force hillary on us.

and now the country gets to choose between hillary and trump. with the way the numbers are going and trump's anti trade and noninterventionist positions, we are looking at at least four years of trump.

of course, if hillary gets indicted and bernie gets the nom, well that changes everything.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
19. apples and oranges. and since caucuses don't register votes
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:11 PM
May 2016

how convenient, the hillary "millions of votes" meme is false anyway

trump will crush clinton
bernie will crush trump

its that simple


 

senz

(11,945 posts)
63. Calling me "bro?"
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:33 PM
May 2016

I'm old enough to be your mother.

Now, abusive commenter, you are going on ignore -- where you belong.

TomJulie

(98 posts)
105. ALL the Polls???
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:01 PM
May 2016

That's 100% BS. Hillary is NOT trailing Trump in ALL poles. Bernie can't win and needs to bow out gracefully and unify the party.

If Bernie cares about the party he would quit the race and try to become Hillary's VP. That would guarantee us a win and may give us a good shot at taking control of Congress.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
130. thanks, but a pro hillary prop opinion piece doesn't cut it
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:31 PM
May 2016

when the polls start showing it, then i might be worried.

sanders crushes trump
trump crushes clinton

there really is only one choice left

bernie2016

Mz Pip

(27,539 posts)
108. This ^^^^^!!!
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:04 PM
May 2016

Geez, Louise this is getting ridiculous. To see any post claiming that Right Wing authoritarian demagogue would be preferable to Clinton is just nuts.

Are people so blinded by Clinton hate that they haven't taken the time to actually listen to what Trump is saying, who he has as advisors, who is supporting him?

We've got sone real examples of Clinton Derangement Syndrome going on here. Not something I would have expected on a liberal message board.

Martin Eden

(13,018 posts)
229. --- or a remotely equivalent outcome.
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:48 AM
May 2016

Trump in the White House would seriously make me want to renounce my citizenship and move to Canada, though that's probably not an option at my age (59).

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
42. A paymaster is someone who offers you a bribe.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:23 PM
May 2016

Let's suppose you are a politician, and I offer you $250,000 to give a short speech. I don't care what you talk about. I don't even care if you have any special insights. All I care about is that you remember. I paid you $250,000 for about an hour of your time. And there is more money where that came from.

I am the paymaster. You are in my debt. You are Hillary.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
66. No. You perform a service and you get paid for it and it is done.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:35 PM
May 2016

The Clintons are multi hundred millionaires. They dont need the money.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
85. They are multimillionaires because they took those bribes!
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:44 PM
May 2016

Bill and Hillary are not multimillionaires because they invented a better mousetrap, or because they invested in Microsoft when it was $1 a share.

They are multimillionaires because they took money from people who offered it. Saudi Arabia, Goldman Sachs, etc. For goodness sake, Saudi Arabia and Goldman Sachs, they are not philanthropists! They invest their money, and they expect a decent return on that money.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
94. Book royalties and pensions DON'T add up to multi-millions.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

But "speaking fees" and "foundation donations", yes they can add up to multi-millions.

Speaking fees = Foundation donations = bribes

arikara

(5,562 posts)
128. You're right, they don't need it
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:25 PM
May 2016

but they sure do love it, and they sure do keep grubbing for it.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
250. well. Trump is internationally contacted, Hillary is just US known, she was ignored as SOS
Wed May 25, 2016, 03:49 AM
May 2016

by world leaders other than scripting arms sales

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
127. Right! We can't have democracy at Democratic Underground!
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:23 PM
May 2016

Give the people what they don't want!

--imm

Arkansas Granny

(31,616 posts)
51. It was alerted on. I was on the jury. The vote was 3-4 to leave it.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:28 PM
May 2016

Hopefully, the admins will look at this.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
56. A duplicate OP to this one was alerted .. and shut down.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:30 PM
May 2016

But BS cheerleaders don't care about the rules ... so they create another duplicate OP (this one) just minutes later. This time, they must have found a more sympathetic jury (aka stacked with BS cheerleaders) and this one stayed. So now it's up to the admins to take care of it.

It's clear how broken the alert system is around here.

Beacool

(30,262 posts)
204. Can you believe the crap one reads on this board??????
Sun May 22, 2016, 11:02 PM
May 2016

At this point it's better to laugh. The delusional and ridiculous nonsense coming from certain supporters is so overboard that it ends up being funny.


question everything

(48,019 posts)
21. That such a question is being posted on a Democratic site is shameful
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:12 PM
May 2016

Don't think about the individuals, think about the Supreme Court.

Does any one here doubt which one would be better?

Yes, many here do not like Bill Clinton and, apparently, Barack Obama. But the four liberal - or, to pacify many here - the center and left - were appointed by these two Democratic presidents. That ACA is the law of the land, that all marriages are now legal, that many attempts to block abortion and access to voting are still in place - thank these two presidents.

And Hillary will do the same. If any one notices, all the "Trump Eleven" are strongly against choice.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
35. I won't, I just won't vote for the corporate one. Make sure not to come and complain here
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:20 PM
May 2016

when your social security check is going to be issued by wallstreet and your pharmacy cost will spiral out of control. Both of these industries have a debt to even with your "madam president".

question everything

(48,019 posts)
29. I am not aware of any coronation
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:17 PM
May 2016

certainly not as it was Obama in 2008 after he won the Iowa caucus.

Guilty of what? No, not of twitters and facebook chatter; of breaking the law for which she should be indicted.



question everything

(48,019 posts)
52. We do. This is why we have primaries and caucuses
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:29 PM
May 2016

But once we have a nominee, if we really care about the future of our country we should vote for the nominee.

I don't know how young you are, but I rarely voted for a nominee, at all government levels, who was my original choice.

Some years back there was a wise post here, on these pages: "If I wanted to have a candidate with all the preferred traits, I would run myself."



icecreamfan

(115 posts)
177. I can't get excited about republican-lite Garland
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:56 PM
May 2016

and fighting culture wars while the likely Democratic candidate loves launching actual wars and fracking.

Retrograde

(10,304 posts)
23. Trump, no question
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:12 PM
May 2016

Clinton at least has had the experience of being elected senator twice - and had a reputation of getting out and talking to her constituents, even in the unglammorous parts of the state. For all her faults, she's not an ignorant, bloviating, misogynistic, racist, tasteless, self-promoting windbag who talks of nothing but how great (or how grating) she is.

Of course, I think a random person walking down the street would be better than Trump.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
38. So will you take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:21 PM
May 2016

Or will you childishly try to blame everyone else Mikey?

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
48. Then you are not taking responsiblity
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:26 PM
May 2016

for doing nothing that could stop him. Same as Nader supporters in 2000 Mikey.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
57. I'll take responsibility for voting against him. Who's Mikey?
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:30 PM
May 2016

Is it supposed to be an insult? Or do you think that I'm Michael Douglas? Mike Wallace? Michael Caine? If so, I'm flattered?

Can I call you Al?

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
61. Only if you vote for the one person that actually has a chance to beat Trump
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:32 PM
May 2016

Otherwise you are throwing your vote away and helping Trump.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
82. There is one fact.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:43 PM
May 2016

If you don't do what it takes to stop Trump, you are responsible for all the damage he does.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
97. Sorry. That's your interpretation.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:52 PM
May 2016

But, rest easy, I absolutely, for sure, guarantee, that my vote will not effect the outcome of the election.

Neither will yours.

Of course that's just my interpretation of history and math.

Who's Mikey?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
103. Still your interpretation. My interpretation differs from yours.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:59 PM
May 2016

Maybe you should look for Mikey in your closet and ask him who he really is and why he thinks I would blame him for anything.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
59. I'll take responsibility for damage inflicted by Bill Clinton.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:31 PM
May 2016

I voted for him twice.

I was too naive to realize I had voted for WTO/GATT, NAFTA, the 1996 Telecom Act and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Which cemented Reagan's policies and finished off the middle class.

This election, I'm going to look much more closely before I vote for anyone. And I've looked very closely at the only good candidate, Bernie Sanders.


One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
70. So did I and voted for Obama twice too.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:37 PM
May 2016

But I voted for Bernie in the NY primary. But if he is not the nominee, we need to support whomever is to stop Trump. We also need to elect more liberal and progressive members to Congress. Both the Clinton and Obama administrations would have been far more progressive if they had a Democratic congress to work with instead of a GOP one.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
73. So work to make Bernie the nominee.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:39 PM
May 2016

The future of this country and the world depends on it.

No that is not an exaggeration.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
78. I voted for him
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:41 PM
May 2016

and contributed to him. And still hold out a small hope that it will happen. But I'm also a realist and if he is not there is no choice but support the Dem nominee.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
93. This is the final push. Do everything you can. It matters.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

If it comes down to the "pick your poison" level then maybe someone will spring a psychologically normal candidate (a Democrat) on us. Who knows? It's a strange, strange election season, in case you haven't noticed...

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
96. But it is important to remember that it doesn't stop with the President.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:52 PM
May 2016

Even the best President needs a congress to work with.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
50. Yes
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:27 PM
May 2016

because it will still be nowhere near as bad as what Trump will do to it. We learned that lesson in 2000.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
125. "Wine is fine, but whiskey's quicker. Suicide is slow with liqueur."
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:19 PM
May 2016

Ozzy's Suicide Solution.

I'm with you. I choose neither.

raging moderate

(4,385 posts)
148. Liquor is quicker, but candy is dandier.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:54 PM
May 2016

Twisted from Ogden Nash, who wrote, "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker."

Look, maybe we could all stop shouting the same things at each other and just talk this over.
Stop pretending that the other side can't possibly be right about anything, or that they can't possibly learn, change, and grow.

We are all Democrats. Even if you are a new Democrat, welcome to the Party. We are supposed to be a big tent party that welcomes fresh ideas.

I remember back when Sandra Bland was pulled out of her car and had her head slammed on the pavement and dragged for answering the question the police officer asked her in the vernacular typically used by most young people nowadays ("How do you feel?" Did he really have a right to expect an answer there?). Bernie Sanders mentioned her name and some similarly murdered Black people, and a few days later he let Black Lives Matter take over his podium. Hillary Clinton seemed clueless at first. She stated from the podium, "Well, ALL lives matter!" and had security deal with Black Lives Matter people. However, Hillary Clinton did apparently soon get a clue about the hidden meaning that had been given to "All lives matter" by white supremacists. And she has shown the ability to learn, change, and grow in the question of the minimum wage and other areas. Why don't we remember the good work she has done in the past and keep trying to convince her of the importance of our other concerns?

For those who think a fascist regime will result in the country installing a leftwing president and congress in a few years, I think the Bush/Cheney regime's success should be a warning. Not to mention other historical tragedies that were even worse.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
156. I was a Democrat for 20 years. I am now an Independent. I have seen
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:31 PM
May 2016

my family's way of life decline over the past 20 years due to Democrats "compromising" and "reaching across the aisle in bipartisanship." Incrementalism has actually pushed us backwards not forwards. We need "real" change. I will not be scared into voting for the lesser of two evils anymore. I am tired of our country spending trillions of dollars on war, not taxing the rich, and then claiming we don't have the money to expand SS, Medicare for All, tuition free college, and other important social services such as WIC and food stamps. Democrats must start standing up for unions, working people, the poor, and the disabled if they want my vote.

democrattotheend

(11,672 posts)
58. I'm a Bernie supporter, but I think Hillary is 1000 times better than Trump
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:30 PM
May 2016

How anyone who claims to be a progressive could think otherwise is beyond me.

On a separate note, what do you mean by "slut shaming"? I am not aware of any allegations that Hillary has had affairs of her own.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
162. Gender neutral term, referring to the behavior of candidates' spouses.
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:59 PM
May 2016

Slut shaming is inappropriate, thus naked modeling and previous adultery are taboo topics.

Feathery Scout

(218 posts)
64. I guess it depends on what kind of America we want in the future.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:33 PM
May 2016

Look at Trump's short list of SCOTUS nominees. How will they shape the judicial landscape for the next 30 years?

Look at the people on Trump's VP shortlist: Cruz, Fallin, Palin, Corker, etc... They will be next-in-line in 8 years if he wins.

Look at Trump's speech to the NRA. Is that where we want guns/gun safety in this country?

Look at the response of other nations to Trump since he declared last June: Mexico, Israel, France and England have all spoken publicly against his policies or words....do we want someone who creates that much conflict and instability with our allies?

Just my own 2 cents.

yourout

(7,661 posts)
75. Hillary scares me more than Trump relative to Social Security.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:40 PM
May 2016

Anything Trump tries relative to SS will be fought tooth and nail by the Senate(filibuster).
I could very easily see Hillary pushing the same BS "grand bargain" and finding enough support to get it passed.

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
88. Hillary scares me more when it comes to foreign crusades to 'democratize', i.e. destroy more
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:46 PM
May 2016

arab/Persian countries.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
116. more lives lost to war and more money down the drain. Then we get told there is no
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:13 PM
May 2016

money left and must cut social services.

raging moderate

(4,385 posts)
205. That is because you're forgetting what a cossetted, narcissistic rich-boy liar he is.
Sun May 22, 2016, 11:06 PM
May 2016

He will say anything to get his hands on the power given to the Executive Branch of the United States government. He has already changed his tune many times according to how the wind was blowing that day. Of course he will stick with the super-rich class into which he was born and which has held him up through so many disastrous failures in life.

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
77. Do you have a link
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:41 PM
May 2016

to a credible source that says Hillary's lawyer has been contacted about an FBI interview? When will the interview be? That's sensational news and its amazing there isn't more coverage, if its true, which it probably isn't.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
158. Yes. You can view the interview on the YouTube link below.
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:51 PM
May 2016

It starts with Hillary telling MSNBC "no" in answer to the question of whether she or her representatives have been contacted by the FBI, to which Brian Fallon (her campaign spokesman) replies:

"David Kendall is her top counsel and he has been in touch with the Justice Department throughout this review. We've always been very upfront about that."


It is still some weaseling because he refers to it as a "review" when the FBI calls it an investigation.

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
161. He says her lawyer is in contact with the FBI
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:58 PM
May 2016

It doesn't say they set up an interview. One is suspected, but all Hillary said is she hasn't been contacted about it. There is no reason to doubt her.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
166. Actually, there is. She had also stated that her people hadn't been contacted
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:14 PM
May 2016

For interviews either, and within 48 hours the list who had ALREADY been interviewed began leaking. The interview is going to be happening "soon" and it is her attorney who is doing the scheduling (hence the lie because the attorney is her representative). Some of this information is also coming from sites that are simply not appropriate to be posting here, because unfortunately, right wing media is following it much closer than the left. Obviously one must take all of those sources with an appropriate grain of salt, but the leaks have been very clear about "May" being reasonable. (This would also make sense with the length of time the hacker has to stay here under the extradition agreement.)

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
167. Didn't this happen
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:27 PM
May 2016

subsequent to her saying she hasn't been contacted? She didn't say they wouldn't be contacted.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
169. They started the interviews (Huma's first) in April.
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:36 PM
May 2016

She was apparently interviewed twice, and also Mills. Can't recall who else, but the leaks were public by May 5 on all the major networks, with Tweety even asking Blumenthal about it (and he was very defensive "I can't say&quot . Hillary did her denial about a week or so ago (but maybe people weren't saying anything to her?).

The worst part of this is that only the FBI is going to be able to say; leaks have to be vetted. We will see....

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
172. Are you sure she said no aides were interviewed?
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:59 PM
May 2016

I googled around on this and can't find it. I found a site that alleges she lied but she wasn't asked about aides. She was asked if any of her representatives were contacted about an interview, not aides.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/05/fbi-interview-days-or-weeks-away-but-hillary-knows-nothing/

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
173. May 3rd. I posted about the discrepancy that same week.
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:05 PM
May 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511907182

From the post (to save you the click):

TUESDAY, MAY 3, 2016
Clinton: ‘I’m really focused on moving into the general election’, MSNBC, May 3, 2016
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/clinton-im-really-focused-moving-the-general-election

Hillary Clinton is ready to put the Democratic primary in her rear view mirror and get to work on Donald Trump.

She made that abundantly clear in an exclusive interview with MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Tuesday in West Virginia. Clinton also said that the FBI has still not contacted her regarding her private email server, and the Democratic front-runner detailed under what circumstances she would release transcripts of her paid speeches.
(snip)
And Clinton said neither she nor her staff have yet been contacted by the FBI, which is investigating the handling of classified information on the private email server she used a secretary of state. (more at link)

THURSDAY, MAY 5, 2016
First on CNN: FBI interviews Clinton aides including Huma Abedin as part of email probe, CNN, May 5, 2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/fbi-interviews-huma-abedin-clinton-aide/index.html

(CNN) Some of Hillary Clinton's closest aides, including her longtime adviser Huma Abedin, have provided interviews to federal investigators, as the FBI probe into the security of her private email server nears completion, U.S. officials briefed on the investigation tell CNN. The investigation is still ongoing, but so far investigators haven't found evidence to prove that Clinton willfully violated the law the U.S. officials say.

In recent weeks, multiple aides have been interviewed -- some more than once, the officials said. A date for an FBI interview of Clinton has not been set, these officials said, but is expected in the coming weeks. Abedin has cooperated with the probe, the officials said. Lawyers for Abedin declined to comment. The officials say the interviews of Clinton and her aides would be a routine part of an investigation like this.

The probe remains focused on the security of the server and the handling of classified information and hasn't expanded to other matters, the officials said. Spokesmen for the FBI and Justice Department declined to comment. The Clinton campaign has not yet responded to CNN's request for comment. David Kendall, an attorney for Clinton, had no comment. (more at link)

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
198. Thanks for the links
Sun May 22, 2016, 10:51 PM
May 2016

I think I can see where the mix-up is.

From the MSNBC link:

"She made that abundantly clear in an exclusive interview with MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Tuesday in West Virginia."

The MSNBC link says she said her"staff" was not contacted. But here again is a link to the interview question:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/05/fbi-interview-days-or-weeks-away-but-hillary-knows-nothing/

Andre Mitchell asks her if her "representatives" have been contacted. That would be assumed to mean her lawyers. MSNBC read this as her "staff." So staff has turned into aides, which she never said.

Thanks very much for spending this much time with me on this. If I am wrong I'd love to know.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
199. Except if her representatives meant lawyers...
Sun May 22, 2016, 10:57 PM
May 2016

again lie because regular contact versus no contact.

It's intended to be misleading and confusing word salad. She cannot just speak plainly because the truth is not good. (My opinion/interpretation.)

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
201. She wasn't asked if her lawyers had contact
Sun May 22, 2016, 11:02 PM
May 2016

She was asked if they were contacted about an interview.

Its only word salad if very plain language is mixed up.

Jackilope

(819 posts)
83. Gasp and pearl clutching alert
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:43 PM
May 2016

Oh the humanity, watching the masses hit with the vapors and swoons by the delicate group that believes Hillary can do no wrong. These delicate flowers howled so when Bernie maintained that Americans don't want to choose the lesser of two evils.

But in the real world, that is what this farce has become.

With fingers firmly planted in ears, blinders firmly in place, and willful trust and willful overlook of DNC and antics the weakest and most flawed person is the presumed propped up front runner. Enablers, paid trolls, DNC riggers all own this. You were warned, red flags were waved and cue the Blame Bernie and His Supporters wails.

HRC cannot even carry the primary without resorting to dirty tricks. The general with her is going to be a train wreck.


 

senz

(11,945 posts)
129. Neither is fundamentally sane.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:31 PM
May 2016

Both are narcissists. A psychologist would probably say NPD.

She is FAR more obsessed with the presidency -- to the point that one doubts anything else matters for her.

She is also far more secretive and vengeful.

She has a very weird history of lawlessness, cheating, lying, and trying to hide her deeds. She doesn't seem to have a conscience.

I think they're both nuts.

If it comes down to those two, the American people should demand a redo. And would probably welcome the appearance of a new "normal" candidate.

emulatorloo

(45,124 posts)
90. You forgot that Trump says has a bigger Penis than Rubio.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:47 PM
May 2016

Last edited Sun May 22, 2016, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Surely that should figure in your well reasoned calculus.

You steal this bullshit from Ida, or co-author it? At least give her some credit.

emulatorloo

(45,124 posts)
111. Link here: ha ha, I added the Penis thing myself, as he and Rubio were so juvenile about it.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:06 PM
May 2016

Ida's thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512028871

Word for word the same as this OP I think.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
119. Hey: some of us do not consider "cocks" appropriate here.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:16 PM
May 2016

Some things should be kept private.

Seriously: no more of this.

emulatorloo

(45,124 posts)
153. Hey: Trump and Rubio brought it up, not me.
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:53 PM
May 2016

Therefore, needs to be considered in any discussion attempting to create idiotic false equivalencies between Trump and Clinton.

Editing out the cock word though.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
115. It looks like Ida's OP was censored by censorious authoritarians.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:10 PM
May 2016

Perhaps this OP is an attempt to get the ideas out there? I could be okay with that, although the classy thing to do would have been to credit her but sometimes in the haste of GD-P warfare one forgets the finer points of life.

emulatorloo

(45,124 posts)
117. Yes I too would have like to see credit given.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:14 PM
May 2016

I don't agree w the OP, but clearly Ida put a lot of work into it.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
221. It was actually inspired by a post with Skinner asking if there was a difference.
Mon May 23, 2016, 07:23 AM
May 2016

He was minimizing the email thing, and ignoring the many, Many, MANY other issues. I kept chewing on it, and posted this (which was promptly hidden). Obviously there was no attempt to refute my points. I went on a family outing ("Angry Birds" movie - twins are 9) and came back to this gratifying post - apparently the topic is worthy of discussion!

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
98. I bet if you took a blind Clinton vs. Trump poll of DUers only
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:52 PM
May 2016

one with no negative consequences for giving an honest answer...

you might be surprised to see which one is more generally found to be preferable.

Sadly the way things are set up here there's no way to take such a pulse within the system.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
99. Flagrant abuse of these boards: You knew dfamn well that the identical post was locked at 1:58
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:53 PM
May 2016

So you posted this at 2:02 to try your luck with a second jury.

Abusive and nasty stuff.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
101. Both, Bernide is the only good candidate.
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:53 PM
May 2016

Like asking if someone wants to eat dog food or cat food. . . . Neither, I'd rather have pizza.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
102. A friend of mine said it is like having to choose between
Sun May 22, 2016, 03:58 PM
May 2016

Htlr and Mslni.

The American people deserve better than this. Seriously, we do.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
145. Your "friend" is fucking unhinged..
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:49 PM
May 2016

if they think Hillary is like either Hitler or Mussolini.



Sid

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
137. Seriously?
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:40 PM
May 2016

I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter, but I'm not blind. Trump is awful... he would make a terrible president - worse than Bush, in my opinion - and Clinton is merely bad.

I can't believe what the primaries have done to DU.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
174. Seriously. In fact, I'll go one further
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:18 PM
May 2016

Trump is a horrible human, but the damage that Trump might actually be able to inflict would be significantly less severe than the damage that Hillary could inflict, and easier to reverse.

Trump will have no support in Congress, and has all the right enemies.

Hillary is Koch tested, Koch approved, and has all the wrong friends.

There most certainly is a competition, and regardless of which of them wins, we the people will lose.

creeksneakers2

(7,501 posts)
208. Trump is likely to have a GOP Congress
Mon May 23, 2016, 12:45 AM
May 2016

with a tea party agenda that he would be very likely to sign off on. The first thing he did after he had the nomination clinched was go up to the GOP establishment leaders and bond with them.

Tarc

(10,491 posts)
112. So this drek gets kept at 3-4
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:07 PM
May 2016

Yet

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512028871

gets a 5-2 hide. Literally the same post....with no source attribution either, so likely a copyright violation.

The DU jury system is well & truly broken.

PS - Actually, I'm flagging this as a copyvio. Hopefully there's admins on duty on a Sunday.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
121. Forum hosts and Administrators need eyes on this behavior
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:17 PM
May 2016

Reposting previously hidden posts in hopes of a more friendly jury displays a level of disrespect for this board and community that is truly beyond belief.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
164. Apologies - we took the kids to see "Angry Birds" with me taking
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:08 PM
May 2016

a DU break once the hide hit. Skinner asked the "do you think one is worse" question yesterday, and my brain kept chewing on it. I came back to it being posted, and I am grateful it has provoked discussion.

The upsetting bit is that the Hillary supporters who hate it really can't dispute the points with the only comments I can see being about protecting Roe v Wade. Once Hillary said she would be open to constitutional restrictions on abortion, my faith in her on that issue was destroyed.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
182. Thanks, Ida.
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:07 PM
May 2016

As you've probably seen, people have been angry about the current OP taking your work without crediting you. It's no fun having one's work lifted without acknowledgment, and it's big of you not to be angry about it.

I'm not surprised that Hillary's supporters can't dispute it. I don't get the impression that they back her for issue positions; I think it's something more psychological, an identification with her and her struggles. Yes, I too was shocked by the ease with which she flipped on abortion. At this point, I don't trust her on anything.

Hope Angry Birds was good. It's been crazy around here, as usual.

Response to insta8er (Original post)

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
122. A LOT of people dislike and distrust Clinton. A LOT.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:18 PM
May 2016

And at this point the inevitable response is "Then why did she get so many votes," and my response is "Ask Debbie."

The constant assertions from Clinton supporters on DU that she will eviscerate Trump reminds me of the run-up to "Operation Desert Storm" when Saddam and his cronies assured the U.S. Military that "their blood will flow like rivers and the jackals will drink their blood."

What actually happened is that the Iraqi troops were ill-equipped and unfed and the jackals failed to quench their thirst.

It seems like every time someone says "People do not like or Trust Clinton" that the response from Clinton supporters is always some form of deflection, like "Well, Sanders is..." or "Why is she beating Sanders" or anything other than the simple acknowledgement that the dislike and distrust can't be pinned entirely on "GOP smear tactics."

Also, this Wasserman Shultz crap is REAL. It's not paranoia, it's not Bernie supporters acting like crybabies. It's real as rain, a lot of people are angered by it, and none of it reflects well on Clinton.

FROM CNN:


Now, as Trump prepares for a general election showdown and a pair of new polls show a statistical dead heat, veteran Democrats warn there is little room for complacency.

"I think that Trump as the nominee is an advantage for our party, but not nearly the advantage that some people had thought and hoped it would be," said Alderman, now with Cozen O'Connor Public Strategies. "I think he has proven to be a far more formidable candidate than expected."

"Here's the bad news -- this guy can win the general election pretty damn easily," Carson, who is now a producer on the Netflix series "House of Cards" and a Principal at Bloomberg Associates, wrote on his private account. "I hear far too many of my liberal friends calling him a 'joke' and acting like the general (election) is in the bag which is nuts because he's dangerous and he has a path to victory."

A new Washington Post/ABC News poll released Sunday finds a statistical dead heat, with Trump leading Clinton 46% to 44% among registered voters, figures that represent an 11% swing since March. The former secretary of state leads by six points among all adults -- down from an 18% lead in March.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/21/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-nailbiter/

ucrdem

(15,647 posts)
123. If you really think that's a question and if that's your real answer then you shouldn't be here.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:18 PM
May 2016

This is a partisan board that supports partisan candidates.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
126. + infinity
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:21 PM
May 2016

I can understand liking Sanders a lot more than Clinton ....i probably "like" them both equally (and have equally significant, but different concerns about each) .... they are both head and shoulders (while wearing stilts) above Trump and the other psychos that rode the GOP clown car

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
222. I support Bernie Sanders (a Democrat) during this primary.
Mon May 23, 2016, 07:29 AM
May 2016

When or if Hillary Clinton becomes the nominee and the site owners demand silence, I will obviously not be posting much or at all anymore. I am personally hopeful those things will not happen and clapping like crazy for the Indictment Fairy.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
135. And you are soooooo wrong it's not even funny anymore how wrong you are.
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:39 PM
May 2016

I'm also very well educated, and have my own business and am approaching 50. So since you threw in 1. The gender card, 2. The race card..what else do you want to throw in to stereotype me?

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
144. Use of the phrases "the gender card" and "the race card" tell me anything about you I couldn't
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:48 PM
May 2016

figure out from the stupid stuff you posted in the OP.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
138. But God forbid, if I would ever assume that you were a female in her late 50s..I mean wow that would
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:41 PM
May 2016

open a can of worms.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
139. Add to this list the fact that the Koch Bros seem to prefer Hillary
Sun May 22, 2016, 04:42 PM
May 2016

And that she's more likely to get some of her policies through than TRump is.

The only safe choice is Bernie or Bust

 

seekthetruth

(504 posts)
151. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE NONE OF THE ABOVE!
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:27 PM
May 2016

Let's start a third party, shall we?

Given current events, this is exactly how these things happen!

doc03

(35,779 posts)
152. It is sad that is what we have to chose from but anyone would be
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:31 PM
May 2016

insane to vote for that asshole TRump.

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
154. No. The question is whether progressives can work toward FDR's goals within the Democratic Party or
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:01 PM
May 2016

must we seek these goals outside of the Democratic Party structure?

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
165. No it is not. The question NOW, as in right NOW, is which is the better nominee-Bernie or Hillary
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:11 PM
May 2016

The "Hillary/Trump" does not yet exist.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
168. This is not a question.
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:29 PM
May 2016

If you cannot see how utterly horrible and dangerous Trump is, then you are beyond help.

hertopos

(833 posts)
176. Are you real ?
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:53 PM
May 2016

I am not a white male. I am Asian female.

I am literally scared of Trump.

What about as simple as
1. Pro-choice
2. Obama care
3. Freedom of speech
4. People like KKK and white supremacists

How a question like this allowed in DU?

Hertopos

Shadowflash

(1,536 posts)
181. ''The question is now: Which is WORSE for America - Hillary or Trump?''
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:06 PM
May 2016

Sadly, it's looking like this is what it's gonna come down to.

At least I got to vote FOR someone in the primary.

apnu

(8,779 posts)
185. Hillary will not pack the courts with conservative assholes
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:33 PM
May 2016

Therefore, Trump is worse for America.

That was easy.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
186. She would pack them with Wall Street-friendly judges and justices.
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:39 PM
May 2016

If you like that, then Hill's the one for you.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
192. I know she is bought by Wall Street.
Sun May 22, 2016, 10:10 PM
May 2016

Her top doors are ALL Wall Street. Her secret speeches were to Wall Street. They have given her millions of dollars.

They own her.

Why makes you thinks she won't pack the courts with conservatives? Hm? Dubya calls her his "sister in law." Her mentor is Henry Kissinger. She takes money from Republicans. She hangs out with Republicans.

She's as rightwing as they come.

Do a little research.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
254. more corporate than wall street, same animal, but wide ranging
Wed May 25, 2016, 03:59 AM
May 2016

She and Bill push Globalization

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
190. I don't know that to be a true statement.
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:59 PM
May 2016

If she has a republican senate, she will likely give in to whatever they want, so we will wind up with a conservative asshole.

MFM008

(19,882 posts)
253. really?
Wed May 25, 2016, 03:55 AM
May 2016

Obama gave in more to the gop. I didn't like it, it took him 6 years to learn.
You cant say for sure WHAT she will or wont do. She will have no love for the gop.
Dont be so sure Sanders will get a sneeze out without republicans voting against him or trying to impeach him either.

George II

(67,782 posts)
189. Interesting, this was posted earlier today and was a 5-2 hide. If at first you don't succeed...
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:57 PM
May 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512028871

On Sun May 22, 2016, 02:54 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The question is now: Which is WORSE for America - Hillary or Trump?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512028871

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I know that we're supposed to cut people slack during the primaries, but this is over the top RW garbage.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 22, 2016, 02:58 PM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Right wing garbage for sure. Implying (if not outright stating) that Donald Trump is better than Hillary Clinton?
This DUer should be PPRd before the day it out. HIDE HIDE HIDE
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see no TOS violations.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Nope.
 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
191. I'll answer the question and it will probably get hidden. Hillary is worse.
Sun May 22, 2016, 10:05 PM
May 2016

The economy is teetering on the edge and it is very VERY likely the next president will deal with a recession towards the end of their term. If Clinton gets in, we will wind up with someone WORSE than Trump. However, if Trump gets in, he gets to deal with the coming recession and we get ONE MORE CHANCE to elect the next FDR, instead of someone who will just turn up the pot a few more degrees so we don't notice the boiling.

It is more likely that the president elected in 2020 will be the one with more Supreme Court nominees.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
195. This is a gamble I don't wish to play. However, my thoughts did consider that factor as well.
Sun May 22, 2016, 10:36 PM
May 2016

Hillary winning will depress progressive ideals, much like it has happened with Obama. There is a far rightward trend that has formed during his Presidency. In caving to their insane demands, it has legitimized their point of view, where the country has then been held hijacked by crazies. Then, he had the temerity to castigate Democrats who did not want to vote for his badly negotiated deals. This, will only continue with a Clinton presidency, and leave the Independents and new Democrats feeling what's the point.

When the choice is bad and worse, trying to figure out the degree quite often times leads to apathy and powerlessness.

It is why I keep saying now to concentrate on lower races.

No matter who, I am hoping that state races can mitigate the oncoming troubles looming.

I also did consider that perhaps Trump winning would energize Democrats to finally start moving again and fight for what is right, beyond the passive stances that they have been playing. To actually push for meaningful workable legislation.

Again, that is not a gamble I wish to play. However, I entered that in my mental calculations as well.

There are many reasons why, when trying to predict performance and being fair about it is hard, since the more factors you add, it tends to show items that may dampen effectiveness of either candidate, making their negatives come closer to an equivalency.

Items such as:
-Effect on their respective parties and opposition parties.
-Effect on Independents, and their constituents.
-How China would like to deal with them (yes, I paid attention to this too).
-Ability to get things passed.
-Negotiating style.
-What actual promises they have made.
-Who they are beholden to.
-The way the campaigned and were treated by the Establishment.
-How the Establishment views them.
-Would the premise of trying to preserve the status quo, (moving one step forwards and three steps back) which brings us to the brink of disaster slowly be better than going to a different direction which is probably the wrong way would lead to the better outcome?
-Their agendas. Would having the right agenda, but negotiated to the point of senselessness that creates unintended consequences be better than having the wrong agenda, but fought tooth and nail to try to make it better be more fruitful?

There are many others that I considered but have not enumerated. It is why in my calculations thus far... Hillary fares better than Trump but not by much, and I am not even convinced about it.

Which is besides the point since I can't see her winning at this time.

All that brings me back to my idea of concentrating on local races. I can only wish the Hillary supporters good luck. It would be a miracle to pull off a win in the GE.

BellaLuna

(291 posts)
203. What is the goal of posts like this?
Sun May 22, 2016, 11:02 PM
May 2016

Is it purely flamebait or are we just to be insulted for not thinking Bernie is the second coming of Christ?

Don't vote then. Go on with your righteous indignation if it makes you feel better.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
256. Balanced discussion not aimed at either Hill or Bernie folk is my guess
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:04 AM
May 2016

what is the goal of your reply? why not say you disagree, then refute anything said. This is a forum, not a clique fest

onenote

(43,399 posts)
207. I'll get hidden for this probably,
Sun May 22, 2016, 11:23 PM
May 2016

but on behalf of my lesbian cousin, and my African-American law partner, and my Muslim neighbors:

Go F*ck yourself.

Buzz cook

(2,513 posts)
209. How much better will the US be under president Clinton than Sanders
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:27 AM
May 2016

It's still the primaries, or so I'm told, so I don't have to pick between Trump and Clinton yet. I have to pick between Clinton and Sanders.

So I'm picking the smart on over the shouty old man.

akbacchus_BC

(5,707 posts)
211. Thrump is the worst. That guy does not know his mouth from
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:31 AM
May 2016

his asshole -- sorry! If he is presidential, then America would be better off with a Doberman!

barrow-wight

(744 posts)
212. This is just a rude and terrible OP.
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:31 AM
May 2016

The very worst democrat would be better than Trump. Even Bernie would be better.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
258. well, the real picture isnt always rosy. The blunt truth rarely is
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:09 AM
May 2016

et al:"honey, do I look fat in these pants?"

"Yes dear" is truthful, and reality, but rude nevertheless

barrow-wight

(744 posts)
270. I hope you're right for all our sakes.
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:48 AM
May 2016

If Mr. Trump does indeed win, may you never feel buyer's remorse.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
272. I wont vote for either I only vote for good people- Kerry and Obama
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:57 AM
May 2016

Buyers remorse is inevitable in this election, so I wont buy anything above Congress.

barrow-wight

(744 posts)
273. Good luck to all of us then.
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:59 AM
May 2016

Funny you should mention Kerry. He voted for the same use of force in Iraq that folks here rip Hillary apart for.

akbacchus_BC

(5,707 posts)
214. Why are you being so facetious? You very well know that Mr. Sanders
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:08 AM
May 2016

is better for America that the old establishment, Mrs. Clinton, the Wall Street woman.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
215. Bernie Sanders is the most electable candidate in the end.
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:24 AM
May 2016

He focuses on the issues. He is, like everyone else, human and no doubt has made mistakes in his life. But his focus is on social and economic justice and Americans increasingly share that focus.

The election this year may prove irrelevant as America just lingers in a sort of political limbo afraid to take the obvious steps that would lead to economic and social justice and better lives for 99% of Americans.

It's a matter of time.

Bernie is the winner no matter who moves into the White House next November.


Bernie has shown the American people that the oligarchy has no clothes (in the case of Trump's current, number three wife, I understand that is quite a literal fact insofar as the internet goes -- haven't seen any pictures myself so I take that back if the rumors are untrue) whether Republican or Democratic.

And so Bernie, no matter how the votes are counted, is the winner. History will view him as the winner. Those of you who will long outlive me will remember: you read it here.

Hillary, if elected, will continue to blunder and kill all around the world.

Trump, if elected, will continue to bluster and kill -- all around the world.

Bernie -- will always be viewed as the man he is, the man of courage who tells the truth and who is leading the way to a better future for Americans. That's how you define the winner -- the person with the vision, the person who tells the truth, the person who leads to the future.

All the rest is noise.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
216. Jury shopping. This is shameful.
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:29 AM
May 2016

I can't believe this post was allowed to stand on a purportedly Democratic website.

Anyone who can't see the difference between Trump and Hillary is either wilfully obtuse or just obtuse.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
260. he did not say they were the same. Their faults are not totally in sync
Wed May 25, 2016, 04:14 AM
May 2016

debate is healthy, so if you arent comfortable, there is the Hillary group

debate and swapping opinions is a democratic process

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
232. or they're right
Mon May 23, 2016, 11:34 AM
May 2016

See how easy it is to say or write something without bothering to offer any underlying support?

Maven

(10,533 posts)
233. The support is self-evident to all except those who are blind or wish to deceive
Mon May 23, 2016, 12:21 PM
May 2016

My original point stands. Anyone who suggests, as this OP does, that there is a chance Trump might be a more favorable choice to lead this country than Hillary Clinton is either a liar or an idiot. The real question is, what is the OP and those who support him/her doing on a site for Democrats?

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
234. Ah... the "No true Scotsman" fallacy!
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:06 PM
May 2016

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016, 05:45 PM - Edit history (2)

You can't counter the argument, so you throw down a logical fallacy ("No true Democrat&quot and pretend you've taken the high road. Not only is it fallacious, it's sanctimonious as well.

But in response to your question: &quot W)hat is the OP and those who support him/her doing on a site for Democrats?"

I'd answer that we're trying, in whatever way we can, to do what's right for our Party and for our country.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
230. No, the Question RIGHT NOW is: Which is better, Hillary or Bernie
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:50 AM
May 2016

Bernie is the best candidate in the past 40 years, hands down.

arguing who is better Hillary or Trump is obviously ridiculous on Democratic party board. No body here thinks Drumpf!

Martin Eden

(13,018 posts)
231. I support Bernie. I dislike and distrust Hillary Clinton. Trump is orders of magnitude worse.
Mon May 23, 2016, 11:02 AM
May 2016

Electing Donald Trump President of the United States of America would confirm to the rest of the world that the American people are indeed a bunch of stupid, ignorant, bigoted racists who don't know the difference between reality and reality TV.

Hillary Clinton represents the status quo, though somewhat more hawkish. With some variations she would be a continuation of the last 8 years. Most of the world (including our closest allies) would heave a sigh of relief. She is considerably more respected abroad than at home.

In my opinion Donald Trump should not be allowed within 10 locked doors of the nuclear codes. He is the most unfit person in my lifetime of 58 years (and probably in our nation's history) to have a realistic chance of winning the presidency.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
237. RESPONSE FROM SKINNER RE: THIS DISGUSTING THREAD
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:59 PM
May 2016

In ATA:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910417

Frankly I find it appalling that anyone here would think that stuff is ok.

Even during primary season, there really ought to be some minimum standards. Sadly, we have learned that many DUers will permit anything provided it smears their disfavored primary candidate.

Once the primaries are over we will have zero tolerance for that crap.
 

insta8er

(960 posts)
238. Yes, we should make DU more like the real world. Where money buys you speech!
Mon May 23, 2016, 05:12 PM
May 2016

The MSM is in the pockets of big money, they dictate what message we will get to see. The internet is something that is less regulated and where most of us can have a say. I alway find it strange to see that people somehow like to mimic the rest of our corporate run and controlled world because they don't like the message. In some countries people who stifle others people's speech and or opinion are called dictators....I thought we were democrats?

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
239. If you want to have free speech that includes pro-Trump rhetoric
Mon May 23, 2016, 05:16 PM
May 2016

why would you join a Democratic message board? There must be literally thousands of open discussion boards on the internet.

This board IS self-selecting and it says so right there in the TOS when you join. If you don't want to support Democrats and help Democrats get elected, you don't belong here. Disfavourably comparing ANY Democrat, or for that matter the ficus plant in the corner of my room, to Donald Fucking Trump is disgusting and has no place here.

Why do I choose to "stifle" discussion? Because I can go anywhere out in the world and be surrounded by conservative assholes. I choose to come here where I am SUPPOSED to be surrounded by Democrats. There are still PLENTY of things on which we disagree, but hating Donald fucking Trump and understanding that ANY Democrat is a million times better is not supposed to be one of them.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
241. Listen, I don't care about Trump..but the fact is that it looks like it is going to be between him
Mon May 23, 2016, 05:21 PM
May 2016

and our candidate. So what the .... do you want? we are laying out the differences between the 2 candidates. Deal with it.