Simple question for Sanders' Supporters...

[tgards79]

Who would you rather have, Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, to...

Select Supreme Court justices
Defend woman's health rights
Lead gun control battle
Lead climate change battle
On all foreign policy matters
Extend LBGT rights
Lead immigration reform

This is not a rhetorical question. I'm really curious.

[tonyt53]

1. I suppose they will go into some drawn out thing about "only if Bernie had not been cheated"

[uponit7771]

2. They're into the bern the village down to save it mode... I think that's still anger phase

[Arkansas Granny]

11. Yep. Slash and Bern.

[scscholar]

21. You can't argue against the fact it would get us a much better President...

in four years.

[SheilaT]

3. It really comes down to

I'd rather have Bernie Sanders making those decisioins.

Hillary has already said she's open to compromise on abortion, not sure how that defends women's health rights.

She came so late to the table on the LGBT issue, I wouldn't count on her in that arena either.

This is relevant:

[JaneyVee]

4. No, it comes down to 2 choices in November:

Youre either with us or youre against us.

[SheilaT]

7. So explain to me exactly why I should vote for someone

who stands for many things I oppose. Or opposes many things I support?

I want to vote FOR someone, not simply against someone who is even worse.

[BootinUp]

15. List em so we can tear the logic to pieces.

[SheilaT]

17. Reread the graphic I posted above.

Every time Hillary supporters are asked for specifics, they decline.

You've seen the list, which is only partial.

I'll add that she seems only distantly acquainted with the truth much of the time. She simply lies even though she often gets called out on those lies.

She voted for war in Iraq, and everyone with half a brain knew that vote was NOT so we'd defer to the UN. She has upped our involvement in wars in the Middle East.

Here's perhaps a better question: When she's President, do you think she'll decide Medicare and Social Security are more important than the military? Or will we see cuts in those so as to continue pissing away billions of dollars on murdering people -- including many innocent women, children, and male civilians -- thousands of miles away.

[BootinUp]

40. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2029496

[tgards79]

22. Here is why.

if you don't vote AGAINST someone, you increase the risk we get Trump. Stop being such a naive purist and recognize that the GOP is the real enemy!!!!!

Your question has to become the one laid out -- Trump versus Hillary on everything that matters to you. Sitting out is NOT an option!

[kpola12]

44. Corpratists are the real enemy for many of the Bernie backers.

Not some fake GOP vs Democrat battle where Hillary and Trump are on the same side of the real battle.

[SheilaT]

61. I know it's quite silly of me to think that I ought to be able to vote FOR

someone. But I've voted for the lesser of two evils too many times now. No more.

[creeksneakers2]

32. We all want things we don't get

We have to make choices in the real world.

[azurnoir]

8. what is it Star Wars says on black and white reasoning?

[panader0]

9. That's a Bush quote right?

[John Poet]

46. Now you're sounding like George W. Bush

May as well, you're nominating George W. Bush in a pantsuit.

[pmorlan1]

53. I See That George Bush is Being Chaneled

here at DU. Seriously?

'You are either with us or against us'

November 6, 2001 Posted: 10:13 p.m. EST (0313 GMT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/

[Thinkingabout]

31. Do you know what universal health care is?

Thom Hartmann needs to look at Hillary's positions are and then go back and may a new list, I did not have to read very far and found he must be looking at someone else's lost of issues. This a problem, Hartmann needs to be honest.

[BootinUp]

39. Fine. You want answers?

Single Payer Healthcare - Stop dreaming and join the rest of us in the battle in American politics.

Glass-Steagall - Educate yourself on why her plan is better

Death Penalty - Not taking a position as a candidate, is not being in favor of it. Her criminal justice reforms are something you SHOULD get behind.

Syria - Everything she has said about Syria has been part of a diplomatic solution with MINIMAL risk. Again, go to her actual statements in context.

I'll pass on BDS or whatever, frankly don't know enough about it to debate it. I will note that Sanders has not campaigned on the issue. AFAIK

Hillary position on marijuanna legalization is that this is not a fight to be tackled at the federal level, that more needs to be learned about what is happening in states like Colorado. GOOD ANSWER

Welfare Reform - 20 years ago America wanted welfare reform. You should thank your lucky stars the D party had some political power to prevent the R party from doing it without any restraints. Today, Hillary has progressive policies (not Reagan era policies) that any progressive can get behind.

I want you to look at her actual environmental positions and show the ones you have a problem with. Fuck this nonsense (She supports fracking). She has a progressive environmental plan that environmentalists have endorsed.

Her National Security Plan makes sense to most Americans. Her philosophy will be mainstream D Party, Not a return to the Bush years post 911 nightmare. Again, I ask you to join in the fight here in American politics, fight the battles you can win.

Flag burning? Awe shit, you think thats why she is running for president? She couldn't give a crap. She has more important problems to address with a progressive plan. THis is a fringe left attack meant to help Bernie win a primary.

[BootinUp]

49. All that you need to consider is Trump. Clinton is for increased regs reduced

emissions, all the shit you should be backing. Read her plan, read her endorsements.

[Turin_C3PO]

5. Hillary Clinton on all of the above.

The only part of her record that I have a big problem with is her muscular foreign policy (hawkish). I wish John Kerry was running again, I prefer his policies abroad.

[JaneyVee]

6. Trump will bring revolution! Revolution good! Me like revolutions!

Womp womp.

[panader0]

14. The USA was founded because of a revolution.

The earth revolves on it's axis every day. So yeah, revolution is good.
In politics, I would prefer a peaceful revolution, but if it doesn't come,
history shows us that there will be a violent one.

[tgards79]

23. But he's not going to be running for President in November!

THEN what do you do?

[LWolf]

10. Simple answer: neither.

That's the honest answer. The real answer. Reality.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. Working class white guy here with three draft age sons.

None of the issues you raise are in my wheelhouse, except perhaps "immigration reform" i.e. "more H1B's stat!"

It's not that I'm indifferent to your list, exactly - it's that the issues you've elected to leave off your list are of far more importance.

[tgards79]

24. Like what??????

You prefer Trump to Hillary on income redistribution?

Give me YOUR list.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. How about no more wars in the middle east?

How about wealth inequality created by trade agreements?
How about corporate welfare?
How about expanding access to affordable healthcare (yes, for men too)?
How about ending the war on drugs?
How about ending the death penalty?
How about a $15 minimum wage?
How about the patriot act?

[Fumesucker]

13. When can we talk about income stagnation and disparity?

Or are those topics off the table?

[Lazy Daisy]

16. Nothing is ever so simple

I believe many Sanders supporters are thinking let Trump be President. Then we as a party will fight like hell to hold the line and continue pushing left, but if Hillary is President she will move the country more right and "our" party will follow gleefully. She will make concessions on "entitlements", abortion, trade, interventionism, and LGBT rights just to name a few. Argue all you want that she won't, but we've already seen her do it. She is who she is, doesn't matter what she says she'll do, we have seen what she does.

The Democratic Party will fight like hell against a Republican who tries to sell out, but will bow and applaud a Democrat who does the same.

[pmorlan1]

54. You Nailed It

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Simple, non-rhetorical, answer: Neither.

My ballot comes with more than two choices.

[tgards79]

25. Gary Johnson???

[Fawke Em]

35. Jill Stein.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. Never heard of him.

However, I will vote for the candidate I prefer. As should everyone.

Of course, I have the archaic notion that my vote belongs to me. Not to a party or candidate.

[Vattel]

19. Clinton is way preferable on everything except foreign policy, specifically, issues of war and peace

[creeksneakers2]

38. Trump was threatening ISIS again the other day

He promised to be much bolder. That probably means another ground war in Iraq and a new one in Syria.

Trump responds bellicosely to any perceived disagreement. He has no idea what he is doing and shoots from the hip. There is a good chance Trump would get us into a war over something Hillary could work out with her diplomatic skills.

No way Trump is better on issues of war and peace.

[Vattel]

47. I don't think he is better and he might be far worse.

I guess I was giving him credit for thinking the invasions of Iraq and Libya were dumb ideas. But he has openly declared that he would commit war crimes by killing the relatives of terrorists. He has also endorsed the use of torture. So I guess on second thought, I prefer Clinton to be in charge of such issues. Kind of sad that those will be our only choices in November.

[RAFisher]

20. How is this a question, Clinton.

I hate how people keep generalizing us Sander supporters just because of a vocal minority. All polling shows that a heathy majority of Sanders supports, including myself, will vote for Clinton.

[tgards79]

26. OK thank you.

[imagine2015]

27. Bernie. Because Hillary has a much chance to defeat Trump as the Republican primary candidates did.

[Fawke Em]

28. I'd rather neither be president.

Look, if a pro-corporate pro-establishment candidate is the best the Democrats can come up with during a lame duck session, then SCOTUS is no longer on the table. Trump may pick anti-choice candidates, but Hillary will pick corporate cronies who won't do a thing about Citizens United. Both are equally as bad for the majority of us, but for different reasons.

To your other points:

* Defend woman's health rights: Like she did when she championed welfare reform for her husband? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/feminists-stop-obfuscatin_b_9835510.html

* Lead gun control battle: This depends on the year:



* Lead climate change battle: You can't be serious? The Fracking Queen isn't serious about climate change. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron

* On all foreign policy matters: She is single-handedly responsible for more foreign policy blunders than even Bush, for God's sake. Not only did she support Shrub on Iraq, it was her policies that cause the debacles in Libya, Syria, Honduras and Haiti.

* Extend LBGT rights: This year, maybe. Up until 2013, she still wouldn't give LBGT the right to marry their partner.

* Lead immigration reform: Really?

[kayakjohnny]

58. God damn. That was good.

Thanks.

[JesterCS]

29. Neither n/t

[hobbit709]

30. Neither one.

TPP, fracking, payday loans, private prisons, marijuana, Iran,

[ZombieHorde]

34. Easy, HRC. nt

[Ron Green]

37. Hillary was always the plan.

Her Neoliberalism and wedge issues brought us Trump, and now Trump's craziness will bring us Clinton.

The Owners are happy.

[Shandris]

41. Alrighty, I'll take a crack at this one.

Supreme Court: Couldn't care less. They're in bed with each other.
Women's Health: Neither. No bureaucrat gives a damn about my health.
Gun Control: I'm against it, but really I couldn't care less.
Climate Change: Neither. Politicians and climate change should have precisely ZERO overlap.
Foreign Policy: Flip a coin. They're both warmongers.
LGBT rights: Hillary
Immigration Reform: As if anyone gives a damn about 'reforming' anything.

But it really doesn't matter, as I won't be at the polls. Indiana is not going to be in play in any way, shape, or form and I won't contribute my energy to a system that will only end up electing someone who will sacrifice our citizens. I don't play pattycake with evil.

[AgingAmerican]

43. Neither

[frylock]

45. I like turtles.

[restorefreedom]

50. another "goad people into a hide" thread. yawn.

but fwiw, hillarys real problem is that trump is left of her

on trade
on campaign finance reform
on cleaning up cronyism
on non interventionism
on health care

among perhaps other issues

face it, we have ONE chance to make this right

bernie2016

[Hiraeth]

51. Six of one half dozen another. Greasy palms either way.

[seekthetruth]

52. If you don't know why we answer the way we do....

....then you've missed the point.

BOTH ARE HORRIBLE CANDIDATES!

None of the above!

[w4rma]

55. Maybe if she picks a decent VP and pledges not to run for re-election.

She'll never win against a non-Trump in 4 years. She most likely won't win this year.

Maybe the option is to let a bad Republican in for 4 years and win the landslide that we should have had this year, but is being blocked from doing so by Clinton?

[Miles Archer]

56. It may not be "not a rhetorical question," but...

...read the article I just posted.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-hillary-trump-lesser-two-000000187.html

I agree with Sanders, and I find the concept of selling Clinton as "the lesser of two evils" to be absolute horseshit.

I make that remark to address the concept, not you personally, so the people who live to hit the jury alert button can relax.

I don't like her, I don't trust her, and asking me if I'd rather have Trump won't change that.

[Vote2016]

57. Somple question for Hillary supporters ...

Why do you pretend that Democrats in red states like Texas or blue states like California will affect SCOTUS nominations, LGBTQ equality, immigration reform, and other progressive causes by voting for or against a neoliberal-neocon third-way candidate at the top of the ticket?

We both know this argument is total bullshit in the 45 + states (over 90% of contests) that will not be battleground states in November.

The path to unity is not via threats or hollow fear mongering arguments, but in fixing the broken party rules and ineffective leadership, adopting a progressive platform, including a progressive on the ticket, and finding a central role for the Sanders-Warren wing of the party at the convention and beyond.

A true leader could accomplish this easily - this simple task will require 1/10th the compromise and good will that governing with a Republican House will require. A leader who cannot cooperate with allies will probably fail before we get a chance to see how poorly she fares working with a hostile congress.

[timmymoff]

59. If only your curiosity wasnt such a bore.

Or a lie, can't really tell yet