When swiftboating is more important than democracy itself.

[cui bono]

What a sad time we are in when ardent supporters and surrogates of one candidate - who represents half of the Democratic Party - feel it is more important to smear supporters (with a lie, I might add) of the other candidate - who represents half of the Democratic Party - than it is to stand up and make sure democracy is working.

What happened in Nevada is on video. We can all see it and there is no dispute that it happened. This was not democracy in action. This was a manipulation of an election to benefit one candidate at the expense of what the people voted at that moment. That is corruption of democracy.

People rightly got angry and booed and caused a commotion. There was, however, NO chair throwing. Yet Hillary surrogates and supporters spread that meme as far and wide as possible, they talked down to Bernie supporters, scolding us if we are children having a tantrum for not being allowed to eat up an entire 7-11's worth of candy. They knew they didn't have proof of a chair being thrown and yet they STILL TO THIS DAY continue to catapult the propaganda.

There has been no discussion about the corruption itself, just a massive "outrage" about the response to the corruption.

So my question is this. What are people supposed to do when they witness the corruption of democracy right before their very eyes? Are we supposed to sit there politely and say "thank you"? Is that what Hillary supporters think democracy is about?

Democracy is supposed to be of, by and for the people. It is supposed to be a govt that governs at the consent of the people. How can that happen if the people are not heard? If the people are ignored? If the people who get angered and point out the corruption are the ones who get smeared?

Why do Hillary supporters think so little of democracy that they would rather allow the corruption and get mad at the response to the corruption? To the point where they exaggerate it so much they make up things that never ever happened? And then when it is discredited they still continue to push false story?

I have been disheartened by the corporate takeover of our govt for quite some time. I am now sickened by its takeover of the Dem Party to the point where the behavior of its members proves that too many in it no longer care about the very core values of our Founding Fathers.

This election cycle is both a sad time and a hopeful time for me. Sad to see how ruthless and unprincipled the Dem Party has become and hopeful because I see the change coming and the people who are fed up with corruption and lack of a voice and representation are fighting back. And we will fight for democracy and representation and no one will shut us up. Especially not with lies.

.

[hrmjustin]

1. Feel better?

[cui bono]

3. Yet again proving your depth. n/t

[hrmjustin]

7. I just hate myself.

[seabeyond]

12. lol. Nt

[kayakjohnny]

23. That's your answer to every god damned post.

Get a little creative, for fuck sake.

[cui bono]

25. That's okay. It's actually great to have Hillary fans swarm an OP and prove its point so well.

They couldn't care less that democracy is in peril as long as their candidate is ahead.

.

[vintx]

35. Yep, so many of them do such a good job of making examples of themselves.

It would be amusing if the stakes weren't so high.

[hrmjustin]

37. Some might say your op is sour grapes.

Your candidate is losing and you are being well forgive the phrase but being bitter about it.

[cui bono]

43. Oh, thank you for proving my point as well! And again showing your depth.

See, you guys can be helpful after all.

.

[hrmjustin]

47. Lol thank you for confirming my point and your depth.

[hrmjustin]

26. Just showing my concern for my fellow DUers.

[tazkcmo]

56. Not till your ilk are out of power. n/t

[hrmjustin]

58. Oh don't keep me in suspense.

What ilk is that?

[tazkcmo]

59. Yours. n/t

[hrmjustin]

61. You will forgive me if i am not mortally wounded.

[seabeyond]

2. I saw the video for the first time today. I would have walked out. I would not expect a mob of young

aggressive, intimidating men moving my way, without feeling fear.

For you to excuse this is atrocious, and I expect no less.

I really hadn't been in this fight. Mostly listening to others. The video certainly says it all and says everything that expect others to have to be a part of that, within our Democratic party, while exercising our right to vote.

[cui bono]

4. Thank you for proving my point exactly. n/t

[seabeyond]

10. I do not know what your point was, I only listened to couple paragraphs dismissing.

Intimidation and aggression.

[cui bono]

14. I wouldn't expect you to read anything before commenting on it.

Whoever you are.

.

[seabeyond]

15. I commented on what I read. That your minimizing and dismissing was at the start, isn't my problem.

[cui bono]

18. Thank you for proving my point again. Much appreciated.

[jillan]

62. Scary Men? What about all the female Bernie supporters? Did they scare you too?

[seabeyond]

64. I saw the video of men angrily pushing against the metal retainer. Yes, the yelling and anger,

aggression and intimidation, the threat of violence would have had me leaving the building. Are you suggesting I should feel shame, having said that out loud?

I have never had my ass kicked. One of the reasons, is if there are a mob of men threatening, I would not stick around to see IF they became violent.

[jillan]

66. Do you have a link to that video? I haven't seen it. Thx.

[seabeyond]

68. ...........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2028771

[Scootaloo]

79. Never had your ass kicked? Try being a female bernie supporter

'Cause first they were getting punched and kicked by Trump supporters. Now apparently Clinton supporters are getting in on the fun.

[seabeyond]

81. Yes Scoot, ONE man hit a woman. Wrong. Everything about it is wrong. He was arrested and charged.

Good.

See, not hard.

[anotherproletariat]

5. Really? Just really? I'm going to save this for my psych class to see. nt

[cui bono]

6. That's great! Thank you!

[anotherproletariat]

8. And this too...

[cui bono]

11. Beautiful! Share it with your neighbors too! Please.

Print it out and hand out flyers at the market. The more it gets seen the better!

[anotherproletariat]

24. Oh no, with my neighbors I shared the video of the NV convention.

No need for me to say the words 'violence' or 'chair throwing'...the video really speaks for itself.

My next door neighbors have been having an internal feud for months since the husband was for Sanders and the wife for Hillary. After the NV video (and the audio of the threatening phone messages), they are both now for Hillary! Yes!! I regularly canvass for Hillary, and many of us have been using that video for the last several days. Works like a charm. Even those who don't seem convinced, look very concerned.

[seabeyond]

36. All this time I hadnt seen the video until today. It was mucheorse than i expected. What person,

Especially a woman wouldn't feel threatened.

[Joe the Revelator]

49. Are you saying woman are weak? If not i don't get your point.

[seabeyond]

55. I am saying that most of us are not experienced in fights and most of us cannot take on young men

in a fight. I need to apologize fearing the aggression/intimidation of a mob of young men?

As an old woman, I do not feel that I need to validate the fact I do refuse to be involved in this type of anger. That my expectation of voting should not include physical intimidation and aggression.

[polly7]

80. Yeah .........

No. Not all women would feel threatened at all.

Your views are your own.

[cui bono]

83. You do not speak for all women, not by a long shot. Especially THIS woman.

[seabeyond]

84. Nor did I say I was speaking for all women.

Reply fail.

[polly7]

86. No, it wasn't a fail.

"What person,

Especially a woman wouldn't feel threatened."

[seabeyond]

92. Well, yea. You. And every Sanders woman supporter. LOl. You, be bad ass.

Me? Not so much.

Hey.... I am even cowardly facing a mob of young, angry men. What can I say. Silly me. Am I right?

[cui bono]

90. Of course you did.

What person,

Especially a woman wouldn't feel threatened.

That is a direct quote from your post. If you're going to keep making shit up you'll have to keep in mind what evidence is out there to prove you are doing so.

.

[That Guy 888]

54. Good for you! breitbart might jave some work for you after the election.

anotherjameso'keefe

[eastwestdem]

16. I was thinking the same thing! It's a case study in rationalization!

Too bad I'm done with college!

[anotherproletariat]

27. Isn't it? These people are either unbelievable or members of some sort of cult. nt

[Joe the Revelator]

50. This post explains so.....SO much...

Thanks.

[Waiting For Everyman]

9. There is a definite lack of character problem.

It is a divide among people in general, that goes beyond this election.

I completely agree with what you wrote here.

[cui bono]

13. Yes, and thank you.

[vintx]

19. A lack of integrity which wasn't always so common here.

People here used to care about elections. Now they sneer and snicker as much as Barbara Boxer - it's no wonder they have no problem with any of the 'irregularities'.

[liberal from boston]

71. Go Bernie

WOW-- no evidence, no injuries, no arrests. Chanting Recount, Shame is now violent. Suggest Hillary Supporters click on link provided & read what Erin who with her father, a former Congressman, both delegates witnessed what happened. BTW, when will the apologies be forthcoming from the Clinton Campaign for the assault on 2 Bernie Supporters (1 Female) by a Hillary supporter who was arrested??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511975215

[pacalo]

87. Well said, vintx.

[SidDithers]

17. The video explained one thing to me in abundant detail...

It explained why Bernie has done so well in caucus states.

Sid

[cui bono]

21. And all the responses in here explain so much more.

Plus, just think how well Bernie would have done in Iowa and Nevada if there weren't such shenanigans going on? But we couldn't have him win the first state now, could we? That would have been a real disaster for the establishment candidate everyone assumed would easily nab the nom this time.

.

[SidDithers]

39. Or how much worse he would have done...

if his supporters hadn't intimidated Hillary voters.



Sid

[oasis]

75. +1

[PufPuf23]

38. So sayth one of the gas light generators. eom

[SidDithers]

40. Awww...

can I get you a tissue?

Sid

[PufPuf23]

41. Can you see your reflection in a mirror? eom

[TwilightZone]

20. "one candidate - who represents half of the Democratic Party "

Democrats voting for Clinton are a solid majority. He does not represent half of the Democratic Party. He doesn't even represent half of the primary voters, some of whom are independents and Republicans.

[cui bono]

22. Okay, let's say that's true. What do you think about the squashing of democracy?

About all the hoopla being concentrated on the response to corruption rather than the corruption itself?

.

[kayakjohnny]

28. Fantastic post!

Thank you very much! It says everything I've been thinking, and more.

Very well reasoned and most wonderfully written.

You have your finger on the pulse for sure.

Cheers!

[cui bono]

31. Thanks!

[pdsimdars]

29. Yup, do you want to believe MSM or your own lying eyes?

[LWolf]

30. It's too easy for some to forget

where that term...swiftboating...came from, and adopt it as a campaign tactic.

Hypocritical, at the very least.

[LonePirate]

32. I think swiftboating is a dramatic exaggeration here.

[cui bono]

42. Fair enough, let's take that down a notch. So what do you think about the squashing of democracy?

About all the hoopla being concentrated on the response to corruption rather than the corruption itself?

.

[seabeyond]

44. Democracy wasn't squashed but by the mob.

* Based on the county convention results, Bernie Sanders had 2,124 delegate slots to the State Convention and Hillary Clinton had 1,722 delegate slots to the State Convention.

* On Saturday at the State Convention, after all of the alternates were seated, Hillary Clinton filled 1,695 of her delegate slots and Bernie Sanders only filled 1,662 at the State Convention — giving Clinton a 33-delegate margin of victory.

* Clinton only had 27 delegate positions vacant on Saturday. Sanders left 462 vacant. Clinton filled 98 percent of her available delegate slots at the State Convention, and Sanders only filled 78 percent of his available delegate slots.

* In plain terms, the Clinton campaign organized and got nearly all of their delegates to the State Convention. The Sanders campaign did not.

On the false and wildly inaccurate accusations that there were 64 potential Sanders delegates in question who were “denied” by the State Convention’s Credentials Committee on Saturday:

* Six of the 64 potential delegates were seated as delegates after investigation.

* The remaining potential delegates were ineligible for two main reasons: 1) They were not registered Democratic voters in Nevada by May 1, 2016, and 2) Their information — such as address, date of birth and name — could not be found or identified, and they did not respond to requests from the party and campaigns to correct it.

* Only eight of the ineligible delegates even attempted to register at the State Convention.

* The so-called “minority report” about these ineligible delegates was not written by the Credentials Committee — it was written by national Sanders campaign staff on site. A member of Sanders’ National Delegate Operations Team drafted and arranged for a member of that committee to attempt to deliver an incendiary report that caused chaos and violence at the convention. It was inaccurate, misleading and subsequently discredited by the Credentials Committee.

* The Credentials Committee, the panel that made decisions on these issues, was co-chaired by supporters of both campaigns and the membership of the committee was also equally divided between supporters of both campaigns. This was done to ensure that the entire process was fair, transparent and accountable for both campaigns and their supporters. The committee worked diligently and cooperatively all day, under incredibly trying circumstances, to be fair and impartial in its work.

[cui bono]

45. No, you are wrong. We can see it happen on the video. Go take a look. n/t

[seabeyond]

46. Ya... we can see a mob throw a fit of intimidation and aggression toward a lot of people.

[cui bono]

74. Let's pretend that's true. How did they squash democracy?

Lange squashed it by not allowing the people's voice to be heard. By voting to change a rule at the last minute while things were already in progress and not allowing a recount when judging by the voice count one could not tell who won at best, and one that was clearly not what she called it as at worst. Then the crowd reacted to that.

So Lange refused to enact a democratic vote and basically became a dictator at that point. What did the "mob" do that stopped democracy from being enacted?

.

[LuvLoogie]

72. And a solar eclipse is Shiva devouring the world.

[asuhornets]

33. There was no curruption in Nevada.

Sanders lost fair and square. why is that so hard? Bernie supporters tried to flip the delegates in their favor---it did not work. Clinton won Nevada in February...Let it go and forget the chair...

[bjo59]

34. Very, very good post. Agree completely.

[Tarc]

48. What happened in NV was course correction; Sander fans tried to seat non-Democratic delegates

to a state that Hillary won handily in Feb. Sanders fans got upset, screamed, cursed, nearly-rioted, vandalized the building, and left in a huff.

All's well that ends well.

[riversedge]

51. Sanders is not going to be the nominee because he hasn't won enough votes or delegates.

It really is this simple!


Tweet:
@BernieSanders is not going to be the nominee because he hasn't won enough votes or delegates. http://www.pressherald.com/2016/05/22/cynthia-dill-sanders-is-losing-fair-and-square/ #HRCIsOurNominee

[cui bono]

73. Thanks for proving my point so well.

[yellerpup]

52. Very thoughtful post.

Sorry it got so rained on. I feel you very much.

[msongs]

53. bernie sanders: hillary is EVIL. is that swiftboating? nt

[GreatGazoo]

63. No, and Sanders never said that.

Swiftboating is when CNN talks about you but never to you, when they spend a week airing lies without allowing one key fact to be included.

[ms liberty]

57. K&R. I've been here since 03, and the ugliness is unprecedented.

I'm just disgusted by it, to the point that I spend very little time here anymore.

[jillan]

60. Lee Camp of Redacted Tonite said it best...

paraphrasing here -

The Dem Party of Nevada was pissed because they had some democracy spill on them.

[trudyco]

65. Ha! Good one! /nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. This cycle is the worst I gave seen at the national level

[Loudestlib]

69. They did it to Obama as well.

[EndElectoral]

70. K&R

[silvershadow]

76. As long as we all make money for Wall Street, it will trickle down to us from whence it came.

That it hasn't happened in nearly 40 years, just means it is still on its' way.

[cui bono]

77. Maybe we should get flood insurance then because there's a lot stored up so when the dam breaks

it's gonna be YUGE!!!

.

[Todays_Illusion]

78. I agree it is disturbing to watch the HC supporters spin and cover for the obvious problems with

the voting in so many states. I am a California resident voting for Bernie Sanders.

[cui bono]

82. It really made me feel a little sick to my stomach to re-register as a Dem during one of the worst

and most corrupt times in the Dem Party during my lifetime, especially since it's headed by someone who backs Republicans and payday loan centers, but I didn't want to take the chance that I couldn't vote for Bernie.

In L.A. I've been seeing a lot more Bernie bumper stickers! And at the pizzeria yesterday, as I walked in wearing a Bernie for President shirt, the guy who worked there standing at the door said, "Hello. Bernie for president." and initiated a fist bump.

.

[felix_numinous]

85. They have lied themselves into a pit

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)

and keep digging deeper with more lies. There are no talking points in existence that can cover what happened in NV.

We don't want to hear any more cries of RW conspiracy, or sexism--the ONLY way forward from here is to DENOUNCE the fraudulent activities of the DNC and all involved.

I understand loyalty, but this goes beyond any loyalty. This fraud was done OPENLY and PROUDLY, and attempted to incite and frame people for VIOLENCE.

Now peaceful Bernie Sanders supporters have TRUMP inciting violence on one side and Clintons and DNC inciting violence on the other. Good job imitating another extremist group!

[vintx]

88. Outed themselves as two sides of the same coin. nt

[cui bono]

89. Yes. And they are now showing themselves to not want more people to vote.

Yet another right wing idea/tactic. The less people that vote the better it is for the right wing. Thom Hartmann plays that quote and I can't remember who said it, but it was a right winger stating it as a plan.

Seriously, it's like Faux News and Karl Rove working together. The Popegate and the one where they claimed Bernie mistreated his wife when it clearly wasn't on the video (of course) and now the chair thing, that is classic Faux News stuff there.

And now they are more concerned with smearing their opponents than standing up for democracy. That's some old school Karl Rove stuff there.

Very eye-opening primary. They have really showed their true colors and I think they have gone so far that there cannot be unity. How do you unite with people like that? Would they unite with Republicans? It's the same degree of difference that needs to be overcome. Or maybe more for us to unite with the right wing of the Dem Party than for them to unite with the GOP. I mean they are what moderate Republicans used to be, Obama said that about himself. And DWS actually backs Republicans over Democrats!

.

[Enthusiast]

91. Kicked and recommended!

Today my local paper had an editorial claiming that Bernie supporters threw chairs and got violent at the Nevada caucus. Incredible!

[cui bono]

93. At least it was an editorial!

It's unbelievable. What the hell happened to finding out the facts in journalism?

.

[Enthusiast]

94. Facts no longer matter.

[Blue_Tires]

95. "swiftboating" has been going both ways

so kindly get off your high horse

[cui bono]

96. How so?

Also, that's really not the point of the OP. How do you feel about the fact that Hillary supporters find it more important to discredit Bernie supporters with lies rather than complain about the corruption of democracy that led to the booing and commotion?

.