Why Bernie, not Hillary--getting to the heart of the matter:

[NobodyInParticular]

If you are passionately anti Bernie, please don't read this post (because you will be jabbing at it since you won't get the point.)

The core reason for perhaps a majority of Hillary supporters is that "she is a woman and it is time for a woman to lead the country." I think it is wrong to make gender the deciding factor because there is one of far greater importance: it is the candidate's humanity. In every which way, Bernie is by far the greater human being. How do you decide who is the greater member of humankind? It is the quality of caring for one's fellow beings, and this is something that becomes obvious when watching and listening to Bernie--one sees that he not only greatly cares about people but about other living beings as well. Yes, other qualities also count, but there is nothing more important than love and respect for one's peers on this earth.

[Kip Humphrey]

1. "pearls before swine", I'm afraid.

[Baobab]

11. His humanity would make it impossible for him to sign their tdeals

Because they hijack democracy and eschew humanity. How can you deny thirsty people water and deny sick people healthcare and medicine if you are human?

[BigBearJohn]

12. Amen.

[dchill]

27. "...lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

Exactly.

[brooklynite]

2. Where's the evidence that "the core reason" is "she is a woman"?

[NobodyInParticular]

8. You may be right, no hard statistical evidence but

only personal experience: in talking to relatives, friends neighbors and people I have met walking our precinct who say they prefer Hillary, I find again and again that when confronted by the fact that Hillary does not hold oligarchs and/or her big-time donors responsible for the indecent disparity of wealth between those on top and the middle and working class, or the fact that again and again her answer to resolving international conflicts and the like is military action first--for which the answer all-too-often is simply "well, ok, she is a hawk," (not really a war-monger!?), and when, after such responses I ask, "what is the most important factor why you support her?" the answer is inevitably "because we need a woman president." While it may be next to impossible to prove opinion by way of an incisive, well-constructed opinion poll, I can only assert that my observation is primarily based on my ability to discern the reality of the working of various levels of human behavior.

Thank you in advance from refraining from any would-be ad hominem attacks.

[brooklynite]

17. "people I have met..."

...represent "a majority" as you claimed?

You must get around.

[NobodyInParticular]

22. Please, don't feign misunderstanding, unless you wish to push logic beyond its limits.

[brooklynite]

31. Please, don't feign hyperbole...

[rhett o rick]

9. You guys seem to think you can carry a discussion by asking questions. If you don't agree

why don't you make your case? Personally I don't think it's because she is a woman, that's giving a lot of people too much credit. I think it's an authoritarian thing. Some people admire tough, kick-ass and take names to blindly follow. The Sanders supporters see Sanders and the current leader in a movement fighting for a fair shake for the 99%. Clinton followers like her tough attitude because they like to back the biggest bully and she represents Wall Street and the Billionaires and they are the biggest bully. Sadly she wasn't tough when it counted, when we needed her to tell George Bush to take his war and shove it. But no, she saw a business opportunity and jumped to the other side of the isle, jumped to help Republicons. Her fans will tell us that we need to back her to fight the nasty republicons forgetting that she chose their side when the chips were down.

I believe her fans can overlook her lack of empathy for the poor and for the AA community, because she is tough, Margaret Thatcher tough, Henry Kissinger tough. Heaven help our troops and their families if she gets elected.

[NobodyInParticular]

18. thanks for hitting the nail on the head!

Once you realize she was (and still is) a disciple of Kissinger, so much of whatever she does just makes so much more sense.

[rhett o rick]

25. But the most important point is that her followers, blindly follow her because they think she is

tough. And to authoritarians, that's the most important thing. They don't care about empathy, they neeeed to follow someone tough. Sadly they don't care who she is tough to, like the AA community.

“Make no mistake, Hillary Clinton's efforts to push these policies resulted in the continued destruction of Black communities and the swift growth of our mass incarceration crisis.”

Black Lives Matter.

She wasn't tough when we needed her to stand up to the Republicon in 2002. She bowed before George Bush and gave a speech to the Senate that echoed the Republicon bullshit lies about WMD in Iraq.

Hillary Clinton tried in 2002 to tell us that there were WMD in Iraq and we needed to kill 1,000,000 innocent people. She has since said her vote was a mistake but never apologized to the Iraq people. No empathy. She admits she saw it as a business opportunity. Sick shit if you ask me. Money before human lives.

[Shandris]

3. We, as a species, can not move 'forward' in any meaningful way until we deal with the belief that...

...emotions are bad things, anger is a bad thing, and 'intelligence' is all that is needed. That's such a cruel joke that people don't even understand JUST how pervasive that thought actually is. I can freely admit, even as recently as 6 months ago I thought intelligence alone was more than enough, but I've learned much, much more since then.

Intelligence alone, and 'playing the game', will only accomplish what the Haters of Humanity want -- an eternal prison planet for us, and an eternal playground for them.

The Cremation of Care has been done for us as a nation, and until we break that mindset...we're in deep trouble. "I don't care!"

Yes, Humanity is more important than anything for the moment. Perhaps that will change in the future (perhaps not), but for now it is unmistakable to me.

[Baobab]

13. Very well put Shandris, thank you

+1000

"We, as a species, can not move 'forward' in any meaningful way until we deal with the belief that......emotions are bad things, anger is a bad thing, and 'intelligence' is all that is needed. That's such a cruel joke that people don't even understand JUST how pervasive that thought actually is. I can freely admit, even as recently as 6 months ago I thought intelligence alone was more than enough, but I've learned much, much more since then.

Intelligence alone, and 'playing the game', will only accomplish what the Haters of Humanity want -- an eternal prison planet for us, and an eternal playground for them.

The Cremation of Care has been done for us as a nation, and until we break that mindset...we're in deep trouble. "I don't care!"

Yes, Humanity is more important than anything for the moment. Perhaps that will change in the future (perhaps not), but for now it is unmistakable to me."

[NobodyInParticular]

20. A very thoughtful post...

Thanks. The first time I heard of "Cremation of Care."

[apcalc]

4. It is not a matter of gender for me.

For me she is hands down the most knowledgeable, the most qualified, the most able.

[rhett o rick]

10. First of all welcome to DU. There seems to be hundreds of you new Clinton supporters that

have very short to the point anti-Sanders messages. She is the most qualified to help the Republcons like she did in 2002. But her fans dont care that she help the Republicons sell their war, they don't care what she did or what she stands for, they have Authoritarian Adulation.

And to you, Bob-Bye I think that makes 65

[apcalc]

24. Ty for the welcome. Been visiting since 2008 tho.

[Tarc]

5. I and most others support Clinton because she has the better ideas and plans

Last edited Sun May 22, 2016, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

going forward. Despite the Sanders Camp caterwauling to the contrary, Sanders and Clinton's stances aren't all that dissimilar, but IMO hers are more sensible and grounded in reality.

[Baobab]

14. Give me some examples of those plans? Do you mean globalizing services ad throwing our workers

under the bus so profits can rise? That seems to be her solution for everything thats broken, more cheap labor, no structural changes.

Thats not a plan its an execution of our country's economic future so that a few already very rich people can gain even more lucre.

>I and most others support Cleinton because she has the better ideas and plans

What plans?

[Tarc]

26. Sure, they're all right here

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hillary+clinton+issues&l=1

[dchill]

28. Oh yeah, she's gonna cure Alzheimer's, ...

I forgot that one.

[Trenzalore]

6. Most of the people that work with Bernie on a day to day basis have endorsed Hillary nt.

[NobodyInParticular]

16. Yes, I too, a long, long time ago was a Hillary fan--

way back when she showed elements of real caring when she produced "It Takes a Village." But since then, when I learned about her way of accepting donations to the Clinton foundation after doing favors for persons who requested her help when she was secretary of state, I saw Hillary, the lawyer, coming into the foreground when she managed to evade charges of bribery by very carefully structuring her acceptance of gifts in a way that she could (at least until now) avoid legal repercussions.

[dchill]

29. She's the One...

who owns them. Don't bite the hand that holds your chit.

[Corporate666]

7. Your original premise is so ridiculous that I think you must be joking or trolling

If being a woman was the core reason for supporting her, then why did she lose to Obama in 2008? Or was Obama only supported because he's black and guilt-ridden democrats prioritize pity-voting for blacks over pity-voting for women, but below pity-voting for the elderly and jews?

As for Bernie's care... I realize the pearl clutchers will flag this post immediately for criticizing Bernie, but how come that care didn't apparently extend towards providing for his first wife, or for his kid who apparently doesn't even consider him his "dad"?

It seems that Bernie's care primarily centers around himself.... i.e. he wants to raise taxes on "the rich" which, coincidentally, starts at those making slightly more than he does. And he's against the military industrial complex, except when it puts pork in his back yard and election money in his pocket. And he's against polluting the environment, except when it's in some small Texas town that he doesn't have to even think about.

Sort of like how he's against the super delegate system, except when they become his only way to win. And he's against primaries where everyone doesn't get a vote, except those where those rules got him a win. And he's against flaunting the voting rules, except when it nets him a couple of extra delegates here and there.

And so on, and so on.

[NobodyInParticular]

21. Sanders' son and ex wife

Check this out:

http://forward.com/news/334264/levi-sanders-tiptoes-out-of-shadows-what-does-only-son-tell-us-about-bernie/ --Oops, in case you based your statement on the article for which I just posted the link, please read it again; then, if you are up for it, have another look at the statement which you posted on this thread...

BTW For the most part, I, for one, am against "flagging", one of the few exceptions might be the one about Hitler having been "the most enthusiastic public figure of the twentieth century...

[Corporate666]

23. Nobody will ever know what's going on in their heads

but I take statements given to the media after a candidate announces their run with a huge grain of salt. Sort of like Trump being the greatest dad in the world yet he acknowledges he wasn't the type of father to take his kids out in the pram.

With Bernie, his kid says he wasn't a father as much as a friend (and while that may sound like a compliment, it's usually a sign of an absentee parent or one who doesn't know much about parenting - which jives with the fact that he didn't call him dad). It's also been reported by multiple sources that Bernie was never able to support his family and the electricity was always getting turned off and that he was just unwilling to go out and work and instead spent all his time politicking. It seems this is the same problem that caused his first marriage to dissolve.

I don't think it's generally worthwhile to bash politicians for family issues as it's not really related to their job as a politician, but the point I was getting at previously is that Bernie has some skeletons in his closet, or at least things which have not been hammered out in the media but which would definitely be placed front-center stage if he made it to the national.

And I most definitely think being a kind and caring human being means that first and foremost you care about what is most important in life. Abrogating one's responsibility to provide for their wife and child is a pretty shit thing to do in my opinion, especially when it was not because he was unable, but rather was just unwilling and chose instead to indulge his own dreams at the expense of others.

Others are probably foaming at the mouth at such a charge, but it's pretty well corroborated that Bernie spent his time on his political career and didn't pay much mind to his marriage or providing for his family.

[2banon]

15. Oh you're just a bunch of BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS!

Ever wonder why once the Clintons were in office back in the 90's, We NEVER EVER heard that meme again by the Repukes?

Yeah, the Clinton's did exactly what needed to be done to make sure they could never EVER be accused as being BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS..

[gollygee]

30. I don't agree that Hillary isn't a caring person

Or that Hillary voters just want a woman.

I haven't met either but I'm guessing they're both kind and caring people.

I voted for Bernie because he's the further to the left, and I'm way to the left. Not because one of them is "the greater member of humankind." I hate classifying people like that. You don't personally know her to suggest she doesn't have respect for "one's peers on earth."

There is so much hyperbole - on both sides, though we have more Bernie fans here so I think it's slanted toward Bernie on DU. But you're overstating things here. It's obvious he connects with you more, to make you feel that way about him, and that's a worthwhile reason to vote for him. But one of them is not "a greater member of humankind" than the other.

[edbermac]

32. Jury results.

On Mon May 23, 2016, 05:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Why Bernie, not Hillary--getting to the heart of the matter:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512030702

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The OP claims the reason a majority of HRC supporters want her because "she is a woman and it is time for a woman to lead the country." A reply was hidden for saying the majority of SBS supporters want a man in the WH. It's not fair to hide one, and keep the other open

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 23, 2016, 05:11 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alerter. Fair is fair.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is obviously being petty. There are no violations of the DU code. If you don't like the OP, feel free to argue your points of view in the thread below the OP.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Goose/Gander
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It was a stupid hide and this is a stupid alert.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.