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insta8er

(960 posts)
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:36 PM May 2016

'I'm not with her': why women are weary of Hillary Clinton

As a whole, women support Clinton over Trump and Sanders, but 49% of women from across the political spectrum give her an unfavorable rating



Anoa Changa is a feminist who isn’t going to vote for Hillary Clinton. Last July, when the 34-year-old Atlanta-based attorney began volunteering with the grassroots organization Women for Bernie Sanders, she received immediate pushback from other women. Over social media, they accused her and other Sanders volunteers of betraying their gender, and of being fake feminists. Even former professors and friends questioned how she could support the Vermont senator over the secretary of state.

“Some women I encounter act as if I’ve betrayed some kind of secret society,” says Changa. “I reject this brand of feminism. I’m not only voting for my gender, I’m voting for other issues.”

For the first time in its history, America is close to electing a female president, yet many women from across the political spectrum don’t like Clinton.

It’s true that, as a whole, women support her more than both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders, but that support is not nearly as overwhelming as black voter support was for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012. Millennial women, for example, prefer Sanders to Clinton and 49% of American women give the secretary of state an unfavorable rating.

I’m not only voting for my gender, I’m voting for other issues
Anoa Changa
Women from across the political spectrum, who often can’t agree on basic policy, are united in their opposition to Hillary.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/23/women-female-voters-us-election-hillary-clinton
117 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'I'm not with her': why women are weary of Hillary Clinton (Original Post) insta8er May 2016 OP
All the younger women who did not go through the changes from our great grandmothers to now, Thinkingabout May 2016 #1
Young women are not as ignorant as you think cali May 2016 #5
No they are not, and my daughter is voting for Hillary still_one May 2016 #26
It has nothing to do with ignorance.... CherokeeDem May 2016 #28
I am in Hillary Clinton generation and just because she is a woman isn't enough to make me vote Seeinghope May 2016 #39
Did I say that? CherokeeDem May 2016 #42
I was taking what you said and expanding on it in a couple of ways. I am sorry if it offended you. Seeinghope May 2016 #46
Lol. You don't realise it but you just called them ignorant. cali May 2016 #57
What in the world does that have to do with voting for Clinton now? pangaia May 2016 #102
Agreed! yuiyoshida May 2016 #51
Ya got that right! Barefoot and pregnant wasn't just a running joke - it was expected. tonyt53 May 2016 #6
Hillary has done nothing for feminism farleftlib May 2016 #43
Now if you had said Sanders has done nothing for feminism you would be right. Thinkingabout May 2016 #45
Informed voters know Bernie is the true feminist Android3.14 May 2016 #52
Since I am an informed voter I know Sanders is not a feminist, a true feminist Thinkingabout May 2016 #56
Apparently, for low information voters, fiction is more important than reality Android3.14 May 2016 #76
I love your signature. Nedsdag May 2016 #82
No, Hillary is not a feminist because Sanders wrote the article, I am saying Thinkingabout May 2016 #91
A truly informed voter would know Amaril May 2016 #94
You are wasting your time with her. pangaia May 2016 #103
I suspected as much Amaril May 2016 #106
Tell this to Sanders, I did not write the article nor did I have it published. Rape may be Thinkingabout May 2016 #112
Clinton has said she would be open to additional constitutional restrictions to abortion Ash_F May 2016 #49
When you get the truth then let me know. Thinkingabout May 2016 #58
It's on video Ash_F May 2016 #60
Hillary favors constitutional restrictions of abortion. It's right here -- senz May 2016 #92
Most of the women I know are within 10 years of my age(65) and 90% are for Bernie hobbit709 May 2016 #63
This is not my experience, guess we run in different circles. In fact I only Thinkingabout May 2016 #65
I'm pretty sure Hillary had nothing to do with it arikara May 2016 #79
She lived it, while in Wal-Mart board she advocated for women to be promoted and women started Thinkingabout May 2016 #88
Hilary was never a friend of working class women senz May 2016 #93
Good RW talking point, or the people who wants to hold women back. Thinkingabout May 2016 #99
Bernie is 100% pro-choice. His supporters are to Hill's LEFT. senz May 2016 #100
Women's rights are more than abortion rights. You do not know who a republican if you are saying Thinkingabout May 2016 #109
Hillary's Wall Street speech haul did not go to charity. senz May 2016 #110
Not true, she donated it to the Clinton Foundation. Sanders per the tax summary he released, Thinkingabout May 2016 #111
You probably didn't know she worked for the CDF instead of taking a position at a well established Thinkingabout May 2016 #101
Yes I heard that a lot too when I was younger arikara May 2016 #97
Some people love attention KingFlorez May 2016 #2
Yes you do, because if you would have taken the time to read the article you would realize that your insta8er May 2016 #3
Yet, Clinton has demolished Sanders in the primary KingFlorez May 2016 #4
She hardly demolished him. Had she done so, they wouldn't, for example, be cali May 2016 #9
And what might the outcome have been if Payday Debbie hadn't had her thumb on the scale? n/t Jester Messiah May 2016 #12
She did not demolish Bernie Sanders Seeinghope May 2016 #40
Hahhaha, LOL nothing else eh? figures. Maybe time to actually read stuff before you open your? insta8er May 2016 #10
K&R!!! Peace Patriot May 2016 #7
Nor am I. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #8
I'm with you Lizzie! yuiyoshida May 2016 #53
On a related note... Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #66
Hey, guess who is following me on twitter? yuiyoshida May 2016 #72
Ha! That's cool! Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #84
Yeah noticed they were in yuiyoshida May 2016 #85
They are overestimating the # of women who will vote for Hillary. Skwmom May 2016 #11
Almost 72 and I`m not with her either. democrank May 2016 #13
77 - for Bernie 840high May 2016 #32
Another 77, for Bernie Duval May 2016 #73
Obviously she doesn't have 100% of the female vote, but she does have a significant majority Tarc May 2016 #14
People don't like liars and pandering and constant evolving to get votes EndElectoral May 2016 #15
Opportunity LOST pmorlan1 May 2016 #16
In all reality, there is real sexism on twitter. She's been called every vulgar name in the book. JRLeft May 2016 #20
On Twitter pmorlan1 May 2016 #29
Yeah, she's lied about on a lot of occasions. JRLeft May 2016 #31
This. n/t ms liberty May 2016 #61
note how it's the Valenti-Marcotte "it's the penis that's the problem" type of "feminist" MisterP May 2016 #27
very well said. thank you. Hiraeth May 2016 #70
Women vote one person at a time, just like MineralMan May 2016 #17
I should not have put the picture up, but I could have guessed that the majority of her supporters insta8er May 2016 #22
I read it. My point still stands. MineralMan May 2016 #23
You also said: One woman holding up a sign is simply one woman expressing her opinion. insta8er May 2016 #25
I'm not "with her," but I'll vote for her if she's the nominee, because I'm with "Better is good." ancianita May 2016 #18
Why? She hasn't worked any magic the past 40 years or so what is the fuel for hope now? TheKentuckian May 2016 #68
Inclusion of the progressive wing gives me hope. Yeah, you're right about Trump. No good there. ancianita May 2016 #74
What inclusion? Seems hacks like Brock and Schultz run the show and there has been nothing but TheKentuckian May 2016 #86
You're right, but now that they've got a foothold working on the party platform, they're not ancianita May 2016 #98
Not enough votes to force movement on the platform and no method to enforce it if they did. TheKentuckian May 2016 #113
Add Cummings and Lee and there's a possibility. ancianita May 2016 #115
I trust Lee, Cummings seldom actually bucks the company line even if he pretends he might for a bit. TheKentuckian May 2016 #116
Yep, one of the little reported stories of this election. Hillary is disliked by half of all women One Black Sheep May 2016 #19
I am not white either, but somehow I cannot seem to get it through to "them". I wish I was still 30 insta8er May 2016 #24
The US is 16% Hispanic and 13% Black XemaSab May 2016 #50
Obviously a lot of women are dana_b May 2016 #21
because Trumps policies are so much better MFM008 May 2016 #30
My 64 yr old wife thinks Hillary stinks! B Calm May 2016 #33
She does have a certain "air" around her...I don't know if it stinks though... LOL insta8er May 2016 #34
If it comes down to Hillary and Trump, I know I will have to pinch my nose to vote for her B Calm May 2016 #35
LOL insta8er May 2016 #36
I don't even want to be in the same room with her. nc4bo May 2016 #37
Im sure they will be finger-wagged, insulted, and told to get off the lawn Warren DeMontague May 2016 #38
63 am not, never have been and never will be with her...nt Land of Enchantment May 2016 #41
When it comes down to Hillary versus Donald "blood coming out of her wherever" Trump, Nye Bevan May 2016 #44
When a woman bashes Hillary Clinton, athena May 2016 #47
Bashes? chervilant May 2016 #62
I like what it says about these women. It says they have evolved. Maybe, you catch up. Hiraeth May 2016 #71
It's much easier being a male. Throd May 2016 #75
Your claim is that Hillary Clinton is the same as Sarah Palin? athena May 2016 #117
What complete nonsense Amaril May 2016 #95
Complete twaddle. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #105
Specifically Bash Away jamese777 May 2016 #108
I'm not weary of Clinton. I just disagree with her policies n/t eridani May 2016 #48
Yeah not really rjsquirrel May 2016 #54
No one likes to choose the lesser of two evils. Vattel May 2016 #55
#SheIsWithHerself; #BernieIsWithUs. merrily May 2016 #59
Kicked and recommended! nt Enthusiast May 2016 #64
What's the point of this thread? Soon there will be a choice, Clinton or Trump and they will have seaglass May 2016 #67
I honestly believe that, to Hillary, we are all irrelevant anyway, she just wants us to put djean111 May 2016 #78
I feel sad for you, it must really suck to believe that. n/t seaglass May 2016 #80
Oh, save your "sadness", really. Not needed in the slightest. And I suspect that is merely just djean111 May 2016 #81
voting issues, not gender. nashville_brook May 2016 #69
I am a 70 year old woman. I vote based on issues, not gender. I cannot support Hillary. djean111 May 2016 #77
interesting story on NPR this morning. white women are not supporting Hillary Exilednight May 2016 #83
Says a 34 year old who wasn't alive when the women from my mother's generation Beacool May 2016 #87
74 year old great grandmother and I have other issued to jwirr May 2016 #89
Hillary is open to constitutional restrictions on abortion senz May 2016 #90
Wife just turned 77 and won't vote for Hillary. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #96
As it looks now...I'm Anyone But Trump The empressof all May 2016 #104
There will be Trump & 3rd Party Candidates jamese777 May 2016 #107
And of course the 2nd wavers only insult millennial women davidn3600 May 2016 #114

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
1. All the younger women who did not go through the changes from our great grandmothers to now,
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:41 PM
May 2016

be happy, at one time women did not even get the opportunity to vote, at one time women was not lawyers, doctors, engineers, we were hairdressers, school teachers, secretaries or nurses. Not that way anymore, thanks to women like Hillary.

CherokeeDem

(3,714 posts)
28. It has nothing to do with ignorance....
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:15 PM
May 2016

It has to do with enlightenment about what women of Hillary's generation and the generation before and after her had to go through to reach their goals. Goals men, and now younger women, take for granted.

While I am happy, opportunities for women have improved to the point that women can forget the fight, I am concerned. The attitudes of many men haven't changed and unless we recognize that fact and continue to fight for equality, I fear we will lose it.

 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
39. I am in Hillary Clinton generation and just because she is a woman isn't enough to make me vote
Mon May 23, 2016, 05:49 PM
May 2016

for her. That is just sexist. I am not sexist. I vote for the candidate for the issues not the sex. I vote for the candidate who I believe will follow thru on what they say that they will try to do. For those two things I will not vote for Hillary Clinton.

I believe that women are just as capable as men to be President of the United States. I also believe that this country is behind the times in it's attitude towards women's skills and leadership abilities. I hope to see a woman as President of the United States before I die.

I have a few friends that were very vocal about voting for Hillary Clinton when the Primary season started. I asked them why they were voting for her and the first thing that popped out of their mouth was that it was time for a woman to be President of the United States. I told them that isn't a qualification and that it is a sexist attitude. I also said that she is the wrong woman running. I would vote for Elizabeth Warren not Hillary Clinton. We discussed issues where I further explained why I wouldn't vote for her. They mostly did not know much about the issues but we're still steadfast on their decision. That and only that was the driving force. It was ludicrous just a ludicrous as not voting for her because she is a woman.

CherokeeDem

(3,714 posts)
42. Did I say that?
Mon May 23, 2016, 07:37 PM
May 2016

I did not and for your information, I am not supporting Hillary because she's a woman. My point is young women today are unaware of the efforts made by women like Hillary and others to make the possibility of a woman running for office, any office possible, and feasible. That's not a bad thing. I don't want them to fight like we had to for opportunities.

I am very tired of this "They are only voting for her because she is a woman" debate. The fact is, as citizens we have the right to vote for whom we choose for whatever reason and not be questioned or ridiculed or demeaned. You are right, voting for her because she's a woman or because he's a man is ludicrous.

 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
46. I was taking what you said and expanding on it in a couple of ways. I am sorry if it offended you.
Mon May 23, 2016, 09:41 PM
May 2016

You are right. Many young women do not realize what things were like decades ago. More men still don't realize it and don't want to accept it but that is just something that we cannot fix tidy. I cannot possibly know what it was like to not be able to vote, drive, get a divorce, own property....as far as men not wanting to accept change, well you can't fix dumb.

I would jus like to see a smart and informed electorate. That is just dumb of me because it just never will be.

I see Hillary Clinton and I see a person who evolves depending on the circumstances. Who doesn't want to own up to who she really is. The other day Trump was talking about the IRS auditing his tax return. He said they were doing so because he paid relatively a low amount of Federal income tax. He said " io don't want to pay anymore tax than I absolutely have to pay". At first I was appalled and angry that he would have the audacity to say that. For as much money as he is worth, he should pay his taxes and not look for every loophole possible. It then dawned on me, THAT is the difference between Hillary Clinton and Trump, she would never be so bold and forthcoming. She would skirt around things as much as possible because she is most definetly not a straight forward person that really says what she means. You cannot count on her. Just study video's over the years .... even months. She is either evolving or embellishing. Bosnia was one of the best examples. Just like the e-mails on her personal server. She is not a stupid woman. She knew that she was doing something that was not normal for a Secretary of State who handles sensitive material on a daily basis. She continued her advisory relationship her close friend when she was told not to. Then all of the e-mails were supposedly handed over.....but they were not. Transparency is not one of her strong suits...neither is consistency or honesty. She would not be a shining example for the first woman President of the United States. She would set women back as a matter of fact.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
43. Hillary has done nothing for feminism
Mon May 23, 2016, 08:07 PM
May 2016

In fact, she's a perfect example of the Peter Principle.

If suffrage was still an issue, she'd just say she'd have to look into whether she could support it or not.

Speeches are not actions.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
45. Now if you had said Sanders has done nothing for feminism you would be right.
Mon May 23, 2016, 08:30 PM
May 2016

Hillary lived the stay back you women, Sanders has never lived this. Hillary has been trying to get women's pay equal for a long time, she has advocated for women for a long time.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
52. Informed voters know Bernie is the true feminist
Tue May 24, 2016, 05:29 AM
May 2016

From Huffington Post

In looking at Sanders’ commitment to women’s issues, from an unwavering commitment to reproductive rights, to the $15 minimum wage, to single-payer healthcare, or a dozen other issues — it’s clear ordinary women stand to gain greatly from what Bernie is campaigning for.

Hillary’s own political history reveals the hollowness of her expressed oneness with ordinary women. She helped champion Bill Clinton’s gutting of welfare funding in the 1990s, which plunged hundreds of thousands of women (particularly black women), into a deadly spiral of intergenerational poverty.


And this

As Secretary of State, Clinton was stunningly silent on the widespread abuse of women’s rights in U.S. supported regimes like Saudi Arabia, and put U.S. corporate interests squarely ahead of questions of women’s and human rights.


Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
56. Since I am an informed voter I know Sanders is not a feminist, a true feminist
Tue May 24, 2016, 06:22 AM
May 2016

Would not write an article about women's fantasies of being raped by three men at the same time and publish it. The mere fact of mentioning rape of women, a violent crime against women, again Clinton has advocated against violence against women worldwide

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
76. Apparently, for low information voters, fiction is more important than reality
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:06 PM
May 2016

It is a fallacy to argue that Clinton has supported women's rights, because Sanders wrote a short story. Her support has nothing to do with his fantasy. This is known as an Hillogical argument.

If you wish to make a real argument, please try again. I'll even start the first sentence for you, "Hillary has supported women's rights better than Sanders because..." and then you fill in the missing part with some evidence or logic.

The record shows that Sanders has consistently supported women's rights whereas Hillary Clinton is on record stating it's okay to put limits on abortion. Her decisions and support of corporate interests and pro-imprisonment policies have unduly burdened women, especially women minorities, single mothers, and and women with low incomes.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
91. No, Hillary is not a feminist because Sanders wrote the article, I am saying
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:44 PM
May 2016

Sanders is not a feminist and because he wrote an article talking about rape does not show he cares about violence against women.
Hillary is a feminist in her own right, has advocated for women for a long time, before she was first lady of Arkansas, what was Sanders doing, writing about women's fantasies being raped by three men at once, unacceptable.

Amaril

(1,267 posts)
94. A truly informed voter would know
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:14 PM
May 2016

that it was a satirical commentary on gender stereotypes in sexual relationships in the freaking 1970's.

But, go ahead. Please keep parroting the tired meme that Sanders is a sexual deviant.........or supports sexual deviants......or whatever the fuck the point is.

Buh-bye.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
103. You are wasting your time with her.
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:29 PM
May 2016

I tried months ago to discuss things... finally just gave up.

She has no idea what Bernie was even writing about. Ziltschh

Amaril

(1,267 posts)
106. I suspected as much
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:38 PM
May 2016

........which is why I invited her to my ignore list immediately after posting that response, but thanks for the head's up!

Most of the Hillary camp recognizes that meme for the steaming pile of nonsense it is and they've left it alone. There are a few; however, that refuse to let it go, even though it has been pointed out numerous times that it isn't what they think / claim it is.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
112. Tell this to Sanders, I did not write the article nor did I have it published. Rape may be
Tue May 24, 2016, 05:58 PM
May 2016

satirical commentary, in my book rape is an act of violence.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
49. Clinton has said she would be open to additional constitutional restrictions to abortion
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:20 AM
May 2016

We already have constitutional restrictions. It is called Roe v Wade

What if Sanders had taken this position?

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
92. Hillary favors constitutional restrictions of abortion. It's right here --
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:47 PM
May 2016
Again, I am where I have been, which is that if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that. But I have yet to see the Republicans willing to actually do that, and that would be an area, where if they included health, you could see constitutional action.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

Bernie is 100% prochoice. Always has been.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/hillary-clinton-late-term-abortions

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
65. This is not my experience, guess we run in different circles. In fact I only
Tue May 24, 2016, 09:30 AM
May 2016

Know one person who is for Bernie and I know many.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
79. I'm pretty sure Hillary had nothing to do with it
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:23 PM
May 2016

It was the women who decided not to listen to the "no you can't" bs and did what they wanted to do anyhow often with great opposition and difficulty. The ones who fought for and are still fighting for equal and decent wages, rights and consideration.

Hillary sat on the board of Walmart, a company still notorious decades later for treating women worse than men. She was first lady who went along to get along and made concessions she admits she didn't want to make such as giving up her name and wearing contacts. She was in a twofer presidency who did things that actually hurt women. The "its her turn" has nothing to do with feminism, it has to do with that Bill had his turn and now its hers.

I agree, it would be wonderful to see a woman president. Just please, not her.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
88. She lived it, while in Wal-Mart board she advocated for women to be promoted and women started
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:34 PM
May 2016

Getting promotions. Have you ever been told "these jobs are for men because they have to provide for their families", I have. I lived the transition also, I know what it is like to remain on positions which paid less so the men could have the higher paying jobs, or women needs to be home barefoot and pregnant.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
93. Hilary was never a friend of working class women
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:59 PM
May 2016

The only women she champions are upper middle class.

https://www.liberationnews.org/hillary-clinton-die-hard-enemy-poor/

While she pushed the company to hire women as top-level executives, a hollow approach to equality that leaves behind the overwhelming majority of poor and working women, she never spoke out on workers’ rights. John E. Tate, Clinton’s colleague on the Wal-Mart board for four years, has gone on record recalling that “She was not an outspoken person on labor…”
 

senz

(11,945 posts)
100. Bernie is 100% pro-choice. His supporters are to Hill's LEFT.
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:16 PM
May 2016

I don't trust Hillary to protect women's rights any more than I'd trust her to protect anyone but herself and her Wall Street donors. She looks very Republican to me.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
109. Women's rights are more than abortion rights. You do not know who a republican if you are saying
Tue May 24, 2016, 05:10 PM
May 2016

Hillary looks like a republican to you. Sanders is too far left for me. Sanders is with the RW and the NRA. I will go with the Wall Street speeches when the money is going to charity. What is Sanders doing for charity? A Democrat is charitable.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
110. Hillary's Wall Street speech haul did not go to charity.
Tue May 24, 2016, 05:42 PM
May 2016

Bernie isn't wealthy with ill-gotten corrupt money, but he has spent his entire life working for the rights of oppressed people and he didn't get a tax write-off for it, either.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
111. Not true, she donated it to the Clinton Foundation. Sanders per the tax summary he released,
Tue May 24, 2016, 05:56 PM
May 2016

Sanders is in the top 6% of wage earners, donated very little to Sanders, according to his tax return, is Sanders lying? BTW, does Sanders have a foundation which is charity and gives to others who are in need?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
101. You probably didn't know she worked for the CDF instead of taking a position at a well established
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:21 PM
May 2016

Law firm. RW talking points do not change the facts of her life, maybe you only heard about her speeches, no lots between her birth and the speeches.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
97. Yes I heard that a lot too when I was younger
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:38 PM
May 2016

I was a single mother with no support from the father and I had to fight twice as hard for a career in a male dominated profession so I could provide a decent life for my daughter. But I did it. Yes I know all about inequality and having to buck the system beginning when I was a small girl as my own father was a big chauvinist. Thankfully he was a good man and evolved, and he was proud of what I did but that's another story.

As for Walmort, if she was instrumental for getting a few women promotions that's well and good but on the whole they have not changed, its still a male dominated structure and they still treat women like second class citizens.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
2. Some people love attention
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:43 PM
May 2016

Just because she isn't voting for Clinton doesn't mean she deserves some kind of damn prize.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
3. Yes you do, because if you would have taken the time to read the article you would realize that your
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:46 PM
May 2016

comment doesn't make any sense.

Millennial women, for example, prefer Sanders to Clinton and 49% of American women give the secretary of state an unfavorable rating.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
9. She hardly demolished him. Had she done so, they wouldn't, for example, be
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:59 PM
May 2016

be making concessions to him regarding the the convention.

Bernie started out with 3% and no money against a candidate with all the institutional advantages of an incumbent president. What he's done is extraordinary according to everyone but a few Hillary supporters who can't see reality through their hill tinted glasses.

She certainly beat him, but it's ludicrous to claim she demolished him.

And you say Bernie supporters live in a fantasy world.

 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
40. She did not demolish Bernie Sanders
Mon May 23, 2016, 05:58 PM
May 2016

There are barely a few hundred delegates separating them. She has 26 states won, he has 21 states won. There at least 2 of those states that are most like Bernie Sanders wins but the shenanigans during the primaries gave her at least 2 states. Her one win was 1/2% another win was a coin toss? So how do you come up with demolish when you have a candidate that is overwhelmingly known around the world against a candidate who nobody had even really heard of? Hillary Clinton is still sweating this Primary for more than one reason. Oh and forget about the Super delegates count .. That number become valid during the convention since they can change their mind at any time.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
7. K&R!!!
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:58 PM
May 2016

I'm not with her either!

71 year old California Democratic woman here! I don't buy Clinton's faux feminism. She's a war hawk with a very cold heart, indeed, for the women of Honduras, the women of Libya and for poor women here and everywhere.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
8. Nor am I.
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:59 PM
May 2016

"Because vagina" doesn't work on me; I've got one, too...and so fucking what? Both candidates are more than trustworthy on feminist issues, and all that vacuous "first woman president" prattle doesn't mean a damn thing to me if that woman has massive downsides to this progressive feminist.

yuiyoshida

(42,075 posts)
72. Hey, guess who is following me on twitter?
Tue May 24, 2016, 11:36 AM
May 2016
@bandmaid
Oh... and @theSLANTS too... they got some great stuff
 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
84. Ha! That's cool!
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:10 PM
May 2016

I'm followed by Mitsuru (Bridear), which surprised me a lot (I play music...but I'm a violinist, not a guitarist!). But we've had some nice exchanges.

I've seen The Slants a bunch of times (I'm a Portlander...). Love 'em...

yuiyoshida

(42,075 posts)
85. Yeah noticed they were in
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:13 PM
May 2016

Portland,....I am sure they have played San Francisco a number of times, their name totally was something I would remember!

link to some more of their music: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018868353

democrank

(11,125 posts)
13. Almost 72 and I`m not with her either.
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:13 PM
May 2016

And neither are any of my feminist friends. All of us vote issues, not gender.

Tarc

(10,491 posts)
14. Obviously she doesn't have 100% of the female vote, but she does have a significant majority
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:16 PM
May 2016

6% of African-Americans voted for Romney in 2012. Anomalies happen...

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
16. Opportunity LOST
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:20 PM
May 2016

They have been ham-handed in trying to guilt women into voting for her. I'm a strong feminist and I don't take to having people try to guilt me into voting for someone especially when it's a bad candidate. In addition, the worst thing they've done is all of their faux cries of sexism that have turned a lot of people off - me included. As a feminist I'm a fierce defender against sexism (real sexism) but the Clinton campaign supporters are like the boy who cried wolf one too many times. They've called everything sexism and because of that they have done great damage to those who are fighting against real sexism. Due to their mindless hurling of the word sexism it's now seen more as a punchline than what it really represents. For that I will never forgive them.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
20. In all reality, there is real sexism on twitter. She's been called every vulgar name in the book.
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:39 PM
May 2016

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
29. On Twitter
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:40 PM
May 2016

there is most certainly a lot of sexism even for those of us who don't support Hillary so I hear you. I agree with you.

Here at DU, however, what bothered me was seeing a lot of her supporters call almost any criticism of her sexism. It's really angered me when I've seen it and I've said so on several occasions. Sadly, when you wield claims of sexism like a weapon just to shut down criticism of your candidate you offend a lot of people who are not sexist. It's dumb, it's counterproductive and what's more it's damaging to women who suffer from real sexism.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
27. note how it's the Valenti-Marcotte "it's the penis that's the problem" type of "feminist"
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:10 PM
May 2016

small wonder they all excuse Bill

MineralMan

(146,538 posts)
17. Women vote one person at a time, just like
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:20 PM
May 2016

everyone else. One woman holding up a sign is simply one woman expressing her opinion. We'll see how women's votes line up in November. I'm especially interested in Democratic women's votes in November.

I'll bet that some women vote for Donald Trump, too. One at a time. Everyone votes, one person at a time.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
22. I should not have put the picture up, but I could have guessed that the majority of her supporters
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:57 PM
May 2016

would not take the time to read the whole article.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
25. You also said: One woman holding up a sign is simply one woman expressing her opinion.
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:04 PM
May 2016

making it look like this was just about one woman's opinion. While the article talks about 49% unfavorability ratings among ALL women regarding your candidate.

ancianita

(36,996 posts)
18. I'm not "with her," but I'll vote for her if she's the nominee, because I'm with "Better is good."
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:27 PM
May 2016

And "good" isn't about women uniting in opposition to Hillary.

This isn't about the "lesser of two evils" argument, either.

This is about the better of two goods, and her good is THE "better of two goods" that a binary election choice forces upon us. Women and all their Bernie allies had better realize it.

We might well be surprised at how she keeps her old school hubz on a leash as she runs this country. I don't think she's gonna let him waltz into the Oval and have her ear daily.

I still have much hope that Hillary's toughness will show that horndog some new tricks.

TheKentuckian

(25,299 posts)
68. Why? She hasn't worked any magic the past 40 years or so what is the fuel for hope now?
Tue May 24, 2016, 10:11 AM
May 2016

How did Trump become a good for her to be the better of the two goods?

ancianita

(36,996 posts)
74. Inclusion of the progressive wing gives me hope. Yeah, you're right about Trump. No good there.
Tue May 24, 2016, 11:55 AM
May 2016

The fact that she's going to be a smart president, get Obama's advice anytime she needs it, also gives me hope.

Let's just shift into making this a campaign that will drive Trump back to the WWE where he belongs.

TheKentuckian

(25,299 posts)
86. What inclusion? Seems hacks like Brock and Schultz run the show and there has been nothing but
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:16 PM
May 2016

cutting off the left at the knees and telling lies to discredit anything left of the old DLC to me.

If inclusion now means strident and continuous efforts to hobble and silence then maybe so.

ancianita

(36,996 posts)
98. You're right, but now that they've got a foothold working on the party platform, they're not
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:57 PM
May 2016

going away. Brockies may ignore them but they're not having it.

TheKentuckian

(25,299 posts)
113. Not enough votes to force movement on the platform and no method to enforce it if they did.
Tue May 24, 2016, 07:37 PM
May 2016

It is a cost free bone to be tossed to act as a pacifier and evidence of reaching out that doesn't translate to anything of substance.

You're right though there is no going away but power never surrenders so sharp elbows will have to be thrown and power taken by any means necessary including culling the herd.

TheKentuckian

(25,299 posts)
116. I trust Lee, Cummings seldom actually bucks the company line even if he pretends he might for a bit.
Tue May 24, 2016, 09:25 PM
May 2016

Either way, there is now way to enforce it.

Look, I think it is important symbolism and I'd surely be even more pissed being locked out of crafting it but in the end symbolism is what it is.

It's a bone but a meager one. Like being able to input on the interior design but not the house or the actual decor purchases.

One Black Sheep

(458 posts)
19. Yep, one of the little reported stories of this election. Hillary is disliked by half of all women
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:35 PM
May 2016

even, she even loses many women voters...it's a recipe for disaster. There are simply not enough minorities to make up for this, since Hillary also loses men in vast numbers according to polls, and plus all the white voters who also seem to dislike Hillary (whites are still over 60% majority in the US, some reports put them at a 70% majority)

That is why its so puzzling to hear Hillary supporters disparage Bernie's support among whites, as if it is a bad thing, because its kind of important to do well with the majority population, DUH. Its simple math.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
24. I am not white either, but somehow I cannot seem to get it through to "them". I wish I was still 30
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:59 PM
May 2016

but that was almost 20 years ago.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
50. The US is 16% Hispanic and 13% Black
Tue May 24, 2016, 05:02 AM
May 2016

Even if every single Hispanic and Black voter goes for Hillary, that's not even 30% of the vote.

#Hillarymath

dana_b

(11,546 posts)
21. Obviously a lot of women are
Mon May 23, 2016, 03:52 PM
May 2016

Making these decisions based on more than gender. Gender issues are definitely important to me however so are lots of other issues and overall I think that Bernie is better on most issues. I do understand that some women really want to see a woman in charge for a change. I am just not sure why they want THIS woman.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
35. If it comes down to Hillary and Trump, I know I will have to pinch my nose to vote for her
Mon May 23, 2016, 05:28 PM
May 2016

in November.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
44. When it comes down to Hillary versus Donald "blood coming out of her wherever" Trump,
Mon May 23, 2016, 08:12 PM
May 2016

who wants "some form of punishment" for women who have abortions and has a binder full of anti-choice SCOTUS nominees, the vast majority of even somewhat ambivalent women will do the right thing in November.

athena

(4,187 posts)
47. When a woman bashes Hillary Clinton,
Mon May 23, 2016, 10:45 PM
May 2016

that says more about her than it does about Hillary Clinton. In fact, it says absolutely nothing -- nothing whatsoever -- about Hillary Clinton.

So go ahead. "Brag" about how you're a woman voting against her, or about how you're a man whose wife claims she is voting against her. The point you're making is not what you think it is.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
62. Bashes?
Tue May 24, 2016, 07:37 AM
May 2016

Brag?!?

I find your response both offensive and condescending.

Hi11ary is solely responsible for her actions and attitudes. She is not presidential timber, and no amount of condescension will change that.

#NotMeUs

#DropOutHillary

Throd

(7,208 posts)
75. It's much easier being a male.
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:02 PM
May 2016

I can bash (or speak the truth as it were) about any amount of males all day long and I won't get a ration of crap from other men that I'm betraying the brotherhood.

How do you fell about Sarah Palin?

athena

(4,187 posts)
117. Your claim is that Hillary Clinton is the same as Sarah Palin?
Tue May 24, 2016, 10:58 PM
May 2016

Really? Seriously?

You might as well say that President Obama is like Donald Trump, and that supporting one means supporting the other.

I stand by my statement. Those who claim to be on the left and yet oppose Hillary Clinton say more about themselves than they do about Hillary Clinton. The responses to my post demonstrate my point beautifully.

ETA: It's very interesting that all the Bernie supporters thought I was saying women should support women. I said no such thing. I do not support Michele Bachmann. I do not support Sarah Palin. I do not support Condaleeza Rice. I support Hillary Clinton. When a woman supports a man who has stated that women's issues are a distraction from the important issues and has zero women among his top ten highest-paid campaign staff over a woman who has focused on women's issues her whole life and has six women among her top ten highest-paid campaign staff, that woman is making a statement about her own belief system, not about Hillary.

Amaril

(1,267 posts)
95. What complete nonsense
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:29 PM
May 2016

Being a feminist does not mean that we swear a blood oath to give each other a pass when we're doing something that may / will cause harm, and Hillary has had her hands in many harmful / potentially harmful things.........War is harmful. Limiting a woman's access to abortion is harmful. Refusing to work toward single payer is harmful. Welfare reform (under Bill) was harmful. Failing to safeguard classified documents is harmful.........and my saying so is NOT misogyny nor does it diminish my feminist cred.

You know what does smack of misogyny? Demanding that Hillary receive special treatment or consideration because she is a woman.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
105. Complete twaddle.
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:33 PM
May 2016

When I bash Hillary Clinton, it is for very specific reasons relating directly to her actions, her statements, and my estimation of her character. It means no more (and no less) than what I specifically write or say. Those things are very demonstrably about Hillary Clinton...bullshit amateur tele-psychoanalysis notwithstanding.

jamese777

(546 posts)
108. Specifically Bash Away
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:48 PM
May 2016

but obviously there are a lot of folks who disagree with you.

Gallup Poll Most Admired Woman
1990: Margaret Thatcher
1991: Barbara Bush
1992: Barbara Bush
1993: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1994: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1995: Mother Teresa
1996: Mother Teresa
1997: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1998: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1999: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2000: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2001: Laura Bush
2002: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2003: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2004: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2005: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2006: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2007: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2008: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2009: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2010: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2011: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2012: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2013: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2014: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2015: Hillary Rodham Clinton

seaglass

(8,173 posts)
67. What's the point of this thread? Soon there will be a choice, Clinton or Trump and they will have
Tue May 24, 2016, 09:53 AM
May 2016

to choose or be irrelevant.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
78. I honestly believe that, to Hillary, we are all irrelevant anyway, she just wants us to put
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:11 PM
May 2016

her in the White House. After that, the Third Way and neocon and MIC and corporate wish lists will be the only things relevant to her. What someone on a message board thinks is the irrelevant thing.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
81. Oh, save your "sadness", really. Not needed in the slightest. And I suspect that is merely just
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:32 PM
May 2016

a condescending attempt at a put-down. Missed your mark, really!

And "really suck" is SUCH a subjective thing, n'cest-ce pas?

For me, finding out that the Democratic Party is championing someone who is a Third Way neocon prevaricating hawk really sucks. Big time.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
77. I am a 70 year old woman. I vote based on issues, not gender. I cannot support Hillary.
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:08 PM
May 2016

The assumption that I would disregard the issues and vote based on gender is insulting. So is the effort to portray Hillary as a victim of sexism because of twitter feeds. BFD. Does not override the fact that I hate war and the TPP and cluster bombs and the Third Way, and Hillary is FOR all of those things. Again, that is insulting, and not what feminism is about.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
83. interesting story on NPR this morning. white women are not supporting Hillary
Tue May 24, 2016, 12:35 PM
May 2016

According to current polls. The one demographic that Hillary needs to win.

Beacool

(30,262 posts)
87. Says a 34 year old who wasn't alive when the women from my mother's generation
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:27 PM
May 2016

were on the front lines of the women's movement. My mother remembered the era where women suffered botched abortions that left many sterile, or worse, dead. She remembered the employment ads in the 60s that said that women need not apply.

It's easy for these young self entitled women to reject Hillary. I hope that they are not stupid enough to stay home or vote for Trump in the general election.




jwirr

(39,215 posts)
89. 74 year old great grandmother and I have other issued to
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:41 PM
May 2016

vote for that greatly effect the future of my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

When I support Bernie I can trust that he supports most of the women's issues that I am concerned about - sometimes he supports women's issues better than she does. Poor women's issues.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
90. Hillary is open to constitutional restrictions on abortion
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:44 PM
May 2016

with an exception for the life and health of the woman.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

Again, I am where I have been, which is that if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that. But I have yet to see the Republicans willing to actually do that, and that would be an area, where if they included health, you could see constitutional action.


Bernie has always been completely prochoice. A woman controls her own body.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/hillary-clinton-late-term-abortions
 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
96. Wife just turned 77 and won't vote for Hillary.
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:35 PM
May 2016

But, she will probably vote for another woman running for president.

The empressof all

(29,098 posts)
104. As it looks now...I'm Anyone But Trump
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:32 PM
May 2016

But that doesn't mean I'm with her....Just sayin....

I will use my vote in the best way to keep that maniac out of office

And honest to goodness.....I've never been so disgusted to vote in an election in my life

jamese777

(546 posts)
107. There will be Trump & 3rd Party Candidates
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:42 PM
May 2016

on the General Election ballot. No one HAS to vote for Hillary Clinton. Let's see what enfolds in the Fall.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
114. And of course the 2nd wavers only insult millennial women
Tue May 24, 2016, 09:03 PM
May 2016

Gloria Steinem claiming young women are only with Bernie in order to "be with the boys." Meanwhile these same feminists say supporting Hillary has nothing to do with gender.....yeah right. "There's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." -Madeline Albright.

Young women see Hillary and other 2nd wave feminists as still fighting battles of the 1960s and 1970s. Millennial women aren't fighting that so much anymore. These young women grew up in an environment of reproductive rights, sexual revolution, birth control, "girl power," etc.. They no longer see the barriers their grandmothers saw. Instead, these women are more interested in the barriers that they do see in front of them. And many of those barriers are not only applied to women. They are applied to different races, different sexual orientations/identities. Different economic classes. Even men.

Because of this, these women are wanting to fight different battles that apply to today and tomorrow. They care far more about social-economic equality. They are far more into the idea of intersectionality.

The youth generation as a whole is far more egalitarian. And they are far less loyal to political establishments than their parents and grandparents. Even right wing millennials don't really identify with the Republican establishment at all. Those youths are more libertarian and socially more open-minded.

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