2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary has been magnanimous and offered generous concessions to Bernie ...
... in the form of major influence on the Democratic Party platform-writing body.
Bernie has accomplished all he is going to accomplish.
He is welcome to continue campaigning up to the convention, but it is now time for him to stop with the aggression and divisiveness aimed at the Democratic party and its presumptive nominee.
Kudos to the Clinton campaign for the unifying gesture.
Perogie
(687 posts)If he believes there is wrong in the Democratic Party he should shout it out for all to hear.
I support that.
You seem to support Lockstep devotion.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)You have freedom of speech, you do not have freedom to write the party platform. You're attacking someone who wasn't saying anything negative about anyone.
LuvLoogie
(6,991 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)time to admit it. He wants trump to be our next president
Armstead
(47,803 posts)or at least you should know it if you bother to pay attention to anything
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)control and he has crossed the line....as far as I care....he is no better than trump at this point...everyday he proves it
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You can try to marginalize that all you want by attributing it all to bernie's personality, but it is a fact that he is a messenger for a very large spectrum, including many Democratic loyalists.
merrily
(45,251 posts)What is the only thing Hillary cares about?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Show me the evidence of the party crumbling because of Bernie, please. Actual evidence, not "Rando on the internet says" evidence.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)You're cute.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)She is doing it because she knows millions of people will stay home if she doesn't acknowledge our demands.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Every other time, the chair just picks whoever they want.
cali
(114,904 posts)And she has no choice.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)The damage is done. Hillary not only should not but can not accept his endorcement after he has painted her crooked and evil state after state. He has nothing left. Unity? Nope. those that will, will and those that won't.. wont. She has to now rely on Obama, Biden and others to campaign with her. All he can do now is attract protesters to Philly for a few days. So what. Not worth the risk of losing your base by bargaining with him.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)that put upon the semantics and logical resources of the English language a heavier burden than it reasonably can be expected to bear.
Unifying gesture: belated realisation that even Sanders can't sway his supporters to come around to the camp that IS STILL TREATING THEM WITH CONTEMPT, when he has nothing to show in the way of concessions. The divisiveness came when camp Weathervane slung its accusations of racism, sexism, complacency, sluttiness, dupes, and general Hellboundness. And then came the praise for Nancy fucking Reagan. All that was aggression. None of it came from Bernie. Clinton deserves to go down to a most ignomineous defeat in California.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Be careful you don't cross the line into a personal attack on me. You know the TOS as well as I do.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)"Magnanimity consists in enduring tactlessness with mildness". - Democritus
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)So semantic fail.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... period.
It is not a personal attack.
oasis
(49,376 posts)would be called worse for annoying members with petty nonsense.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)Bernie is an ingrate for naming someone as divisive as Cornell West to the DNC platform committee.
See? ... not a personal attack.
Entirely factual.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But Clinton is magnanimous for having Debbie on her side.
Yes, and the "ingrate" wasn't directed at me?
I'm sorry, but I think you re confusing some of David Brock's talking points at this time.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)For what does he owe this gratitude? To who does he owe it?
You dont like west good for you
a buck and your disapproval might get a cup of mc coffee .
The belief that sanders owes the dnc for anything is central to your delusion of ungrateful.behaviour .
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)Of course not. She's ahead in votes and delegates so 6 to 5 is about right.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)yet he wants all the rules changed for him. The DNC always has had seats on the platform committee, along with the winning candidate and the runner-up.
And btw, is he even registered as a Democrat since Vermont doesn't have party registrations?
There are reports that he has already filed as an independent for his 2018 senate run talk about covering all the bases.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... 3 million or so votes.
He totally ignored Obama's 08 campaign and decided to go the least diverse route of supporters...
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I know you love to claim Bernie ignored the southern states, but... No, he didn't. He campaigned in them. He opened offices in the major southern cities. he hired people, he bought ads. Now, he didn't throw the kind of money into the south that he threw into oh, say, Michigan. But that's likely because of Clinton's already insurmountable lead in the Southern states. She was running 80%, she got 80%.
The fact is uponit, a Jewish liberal wasn't going to win southern voters. Even Democratic southern voters.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If he was a Christian liberal would he have won over southern voters?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Same as obama's race, or Clinton's gender, or Webb's being created in a laboratory out of other, smaller politicians.
(I said I'd stop poking at Webb. I LIED.)
I have no idea about what would have happened in Speculative Scenarios. I do know that not being a Christian and not beign a WASP though, certainly had some impact on the outcome.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Do you think, then, that Bernie being Jewish hurt him in particular with respect to African-American voters?
That was the demographic in the region that voted most overwhelmingly for Hillary over Bernie.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Having grown up in Alabama, I can say that the attempt to cast white and black southerners as being radically different is... kind of dumb. Really the only major difference - politically speaking of course - is that black southerners are obviously very pro-black, and white southerners are generally... ambivalent with a trend towards hostile to the concept. Take that away and you've got a fairly uniform political grouping. White and black southerners trend towards conservative ideals, are generally politically Christian, and they harbor very similar biases and attitudes towards demographics beyond the white / black divide.
Why did Sanders lose less-hard with southern whites than with southern blacks? Beats the hell out of me. Maybe because there was no massive campaign to cast Sanders as a frothing anti-white bigot the way there was to cast him as a frothing anti-black bigot?
After all, if propaganda didn't work, all our television would be commercial-free.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Again, I can only speak to the poll results as I am not from the region and have no particular insights. I just know that Hillary won with African-Americans over Bernie by extremely large margins (80-20 was not unusual) and among whites by much smaller margins. That seems statistically significant to me, though I do not know what it signifies. I don't think there was a massive campaign to cast him as a frothing anti-black bigot. Do you really think that is a reasonable claim?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... so your response on its face is bullshit.
But Team Sanders has a response. Her grasp now on the nomination is almost entirely on the basis of victories where Bernie Sanders did not compete, said senior strategist Tad Devine in a March conference call with reporters, listing eight states in the South: Texas, Alabama, Virginia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, and Arkansas. Clinton, Devine continued, has emerged as a weak frontrunner.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/bernie_sanders_deep_south_excuse_doesn_t_hold_up.html
The fact is uponit, a Jewish liberal wasn't going to win southern voters. Even Democratic southern voters.
More whiny bullshit, the long shot black guy won with damn near the same system Sanders is losing with right now...
Nothing was 'rigged' nothing was anti Jewish (shit, somehow that's harder than being anti black) and nothing was anti Sanders...
Sanders ran a piss poor campaign... PERIOD
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Plenty of campaign stops. Plenty of campaign offices. A fair amount of ads.
And pointing out that a Jewish liberal wasn't going to win over southern Democrats isn't "whiny," it's simple acknowledgement of facts. Barack obama ain't got anything to do with that, so I dunno what you're trying to get out of that.
And considering Sanders came out of nowhere, started at 3% with no name recognition and his "official" non-membership of the party, coming out with 40% of the vote ain't too shabby.
If anyone is whining, it's you and your straw-grasping to explain why a nobody from nowhere did so damn well.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Odds are Mr. Devine is simply meaning that Sanders was not competitive in those states. 'Cause he very certainly opened offices, held his rallies, bought ads, etc.
I'm sorry that you were too busy trying to imagine new fig leaves for the obvious reason you hate the man so much that you entirely missed this stuff.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"Waiter, the soup is awful and you didn't bring me enough of it!"
I already addressed this before. Clinton's lead in the south was already pretty damned overwhelming as to be insurmountable. Bernie's campaign decided to not shovel their entire budget into the south, since it would have been a Clinton blowout anyway. The campaign allocated funds to make sure there was a Bernie presence, to make sure he was more than just "the other guy in the ballot" at least, and chose to focus on more competitive states.
See, Sanders doesn't have infinite money. It might be an hard thing for a Clinton supporter to try to fathom, but, that's how it is.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... and backed that up with words about not competing for those states.
Sanders said he'd fight for every vote... except the "southern" ones hunh?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)No? I didn't think so.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)The Party has gotten away from "We the People" and Bernie's platform is helping to move it back in that direction. The Primary process is a good thing.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Maybe she should be trying to get concessions from him since she may still yet lose.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)I don't get the kerfuffle about this. It's not unprecedented.
polly7
(20,582 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)pressbox69
(2,252 posts)indeed she will.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)not sure how to describe Bernie's bitter, vindictive, crusty, angry, lying, inflammatory rhetoric. Oh wait, I just did.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Or pretend that Sanders is its author.
The Establishment still has an uncomfortable future ahead, to the precise extent that they live in denial.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)Take a look at the crowd at a Sanders event. Average age? Probably 30. You have young and old and everywhere in between, but a lot of youthful faces.
Take a look at one of Hillary's events. Many of the 40 or 50 faces are folks that probably won't be alive by the next election, or for certain will be chilling with the FSM by 2024. They are going the way of the dodo bird.
3rd Way politics might win the battle but they will lose the war.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... so with that concession are you willing to acknowledge that it would be better to protect the progress Obama has made, and having that as a starting point for your revolution, as opposed to taking several hundred huge steps backward?
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)And Bernie has shown you don't need dirty corporate cash to fund a campaign.
She could still win over much of the progressive vote, but the DWS playbook needs to be abandoned immediately.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)She's already tried to co-opt Bernie's progressive campaign issues so, she owes his quite a bit this primary cycle
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... and, at this point Bernie has wrung just about every bit of political capital from the process.
He'd be wise to pocket those gains and look forward to where he can best steer his movement outside of the nomination process.
He needs to start thinking about his legacy or he won't have one.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)progressive / liberal ideology doesn't have ego... you assume too much as it pertains to Bernie, this is why HRC and her supporters don't get it, never will
this isn't about political capital, this is about ideology and the heart of what the DEM party should stand for
pressbox69
(2,252 posts)but it could be very unpleasant.
ancianita
(36,023 posts)He's not been divisive. He simply calls out unfair treatment by the party, not Hillary, to whom he's been respectful in debates, when he's only debated pro-corporate ideas. He has not attacked her personally.
His differences, well articulated, are what primary politics are all about.
Hillary's "gesture" means more than the party acknowledges, which is the fact that she can't win without Bernie's constituents and she knows it.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)They are fortunate that Bernie committed to not running as a third party. He could win it all.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Look it up.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... the presumptive nominee?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)She went to Obama in an extremely powerful spot and used it to enrich herself.
Bernie getting 5 spots on the platform committee is laughable as a "magnanimous" gesture. I suspect if he's in Hillary's 2008 spot pre-convention Hillary should meet with him and similarly negotiate.
She won't tho, she's notoriously viciously vindictive. Bernie is now a huge enemy.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... but she warmly and wisely chose unity.
Because she is a Democrat.
Response to salinsky (Original post)
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DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Hillary's health could fail her and there is the potential indictment to consider. Both look likely to prevent Hillary being the nominee at this point.
It's bad karma to wish ill health on others. If I were you I would get a physical examination immediately just to make sure.
Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #77)
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DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Nasty... I would say a lot more but my post would be hidden. You can infer what I would say if I felt no such constraints.
Nasty...
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)Response to Renew Deal (Reply #79)
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Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)Sanders lost. The voters picked someone else. He has no more or less right to the nomination than Biden. Sanders shouldn't get it just because he happened to run this cycle.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)Cornel West is pure poison for this party.
Response to ericson00 (Reply #78)
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