The Atlantic: Sanders may be damaging his own cause.. supporters may give up reform is possible.

[DCBob]

The Sanders campaign has long made the case that the political system is beholden to the rich and powerful, and no longer adequately represents the interests of the people. That message animates supporters and has become a key rationale for the campaign. So it is perhaps not surprising that after Sanders supporters protested the Nevada Democratic convention earlier this month, the candidate decried party leaders. “Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place,” Sanders declared. In the aftermath of the convention, Sanders’s campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, accused the Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz of “throwing shade on the Sanders campaign since the very beginning.”

In the short-term, accusing party elites of unfairly intervening in the political process might have a political payoff. It will likely motivate die-hard Sanders supporters to volunteer or donate money. And it could help Sanders gain leverage in the lead up to the Democratic National Convention. Fearful of the party being torn apart, party leaders may be more deferential to Sanders’s demands in the hope that he will ultimately help broker peace. There are already indications that the senator is starting to get his way. On Monday, The Washington Post reported that Sanders has been “given unprecedented say over the Democratic Party platform,” noting that party officials have permitted him to name five people to the “15-member committee that writes the platform.”

But in the long-term, the same strategy could undermine Sanders’s goal of creating a lasting political movement. If the campaign suggests the primary election has not proceeded fairly, its supporters may give up on the idea that political reform is even possible. The Boston College political science professor David Hopkins describes the risk this way: “Complaints about a rigged system may breed more apathy and cynicism than motivation to remain productively active in party politics,” he wrote in an analysis of the Nevada convention. “If the lesson drawn by Sanders and his supporters from the 2016 nomination race is ‘the fix is in’ rather than ‘good start—let’s get ’em next time,’ it will be harder to sustain momentum for their agenda within the Democratic Party and the electoral arena more broadly past the end of this campaign.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/bernie-sanders-dnc/483965/

================

I hope this is not the case as we do need reform, serious reform. Bernie needs to look at the big picture. He needs to come to grips with the fact he is not going to win and focus on what's best for the future of the country. He could play a big role by helping to motivate his followers to keep pushing to improve things in a positive way rather than just complaining and bashing and insisting the system is completely screwed up beyond all repair. That wont motivate people to work to fix the system or vote to defeat the Republicans.

There is an opportunity for real change to happen in the next few years.. will it be more liberal/progressive or will it be more authoritarian/conservative? Bernie and his followers can help push the change in the direction they want.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. My goodness mainstream media

The same MSM that missed trump and got Occupy wrong. This is much bigger than this election

[DCBob]

2. "This is much bigger than this election"

I think that is the main point of the article. Bernie seems to be focusing on this election and not looking at the big picture down the road and if he convinces many that the system is completely screwed up and "the fix is in" they may give up on politics.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. They are trying to dissemble

And this goes back to at least the Battle of Seattle. The youth are not partisans. Neither am I for the record. What this will do though...and the New Yorker is missing it as good MSM they are...lack of imagination...is that kids will be further radicalized and understand. I did already, that change does not come from the ballot booth...but the streets. Ah, I am 18 again in Mexico City

Enjoy, you have sown the wind...the whirlwind is coming. I mean it. I will cover it but kids, the youth, many of them will vote in down ballot where they know the candidates. Otherwise many of them believe the system is even more corrupt than you can imagine. Or even than I do. I mean I will vote for whoever the software decide I did...many of them don't believe it will be counted, period. The shenanigans, or what we used to call the torta factor, has to be overcome, if at all possible.

The kids know the economic collapse is coming, due to an ecological collapse. Your generation has chosen the hard landing. Trump is the hardest landing...they will not quite forgive you. Yes, in ten, max twenty years, your precious Supreme Court will not matter. Enjoy the good times...the hard ones are coming. They know it. You made your choice and the New Yorker is missing this. I wonder if they even talk to 18 year olds as well peers?

[bettyellen]

5. the "kids" already left down ballot choices unmarked when they had them in the primaries.

Your precious supreme court? What the fuckity fuck?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You are young enough...you will get it someday

I am looking forwards to people like you getting it

[bettyellen]

11. I hope you are right, but I hear and read a lot of people saying they just won't vote.

And I think it sucks. SBS campaign has heavily increased cynicism from what I have seen. YMMV.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. You might want to think why

That is a symptom of something much much bigger than a single election. To me it confirmed what I already knew. I pretend to vote, who I vote for is actually determined by who counts the vote.

The torta factor was there to be obvious in 2000. This election we have seen it in spades. I don't blame them, I get it. This is far more widespread than you think

[bettyellen]

19. The are cynical about the system, and decided to opt out if they don't win the biggest prize their

first time out. That no one can be bothered talking about how the GOP has been disenfranchising voters on a huge scale- that they are not in the least interested in blaming anyone but Hillary tells me all I need to know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Whoosh!!!!

Did you miss my reference to 2000. And you missed Brooklyn

[bettyellen]

22. Rude, Nadin. Very rude.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Not rude factual

Look tribal or rather partisan thinking will not change this reality. Both parties are now doing it. Yes, republicans, for the moment, are getting the gold medal. But both are doing it. Machine politics is ugly and yes, my vote will be counted as whoever wishes to count is as decides it will count. I got no say, really.

And the kids are very aware of this. The election confirmed their worst fears. The system is rotten to the core and rigged against their hopes and aspirations. Power concedes nothing. So voting, and I have heard it from kids, is a waste of time. Think about that one. I have no counter.

I am too stubborn so I will continue to pretend to vote. But think carefully what comes next when people conclude the system is rigged. Or rather they get confirmation of their worst fears

Remain being a partisan. Myself I am listening to those kids. You and I have sown the wind.

[bettyellen]

24. I don't think there is anything new to the "it's rigged" or "they are all the same" arguments.....

I also think they a wrong more often than right. But simple black and white thinking is comforting for the masses, whatever their age.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Alas this is exactly what deep partisans think

Have fun thinking it is just about the election

[bettyellen]

28. Like it or not, the youth of America have never been voters. And that is a shame.

They COULD have big impact, and choose not to. Selling them this bottomless cynicism - and lies about "they're all the same" does not help. Politics are a negotiation, and they do not come to the table.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Like it or not this goes beyond fucking elections

Which you keep missing

[bettyellen]

32. Millennials are putting all their eggs in the Bernie basket, and it is naive.

If they want to change the system, voting is a crucial part of it. Like it or not, their own communities are also awash in corruption, but that isn't as sexy to deal with. Midterms are a bore. The president will either put on a cape and save us all or make a pact with the devil and send us all to our doom. That is the level of critical thinking I often see out there.
When they are older and see things less as black and white, then they start voting. Sad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. There you go again thinking it will be over

The day of the "election."

Been going on and building since Seattle

[bettyellen]

38. I wish I believed you were right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Well since the MSM does not cover this

Just like they do not cover labor, of course you have no idea

[bettyellen]

40. Everyone is uninformed except for you, according to you or "we"

As you like to call your staff of one on your blog.
You're just an opinion like any other, despite covering local news for your own enjoyment. Don't let the press credentials go to your head.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Tell me when was the last time the msm covered in depth

The causes of things like Occupy? I shall wait

In fact, this article is a perfect example of what I speak off

[bettyellen]

42. Sanders got more coverage and interviews than Clinton.....

A whole lot more airtime.
This media blackout shit is ridiculous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. No he did not

And some of that was on purpose. When you keep the media at bay...a complaint from working media...

Points for deflection though

[Agschmid]

36. Just for the record I am also not partisan. Clearly.

[JPnoodleman]

15. The point of this article is a defense of the Clinton Dynasty. n/t

[Fumesucker]

4. It's not Bernie convincing me the "fix is in", it's the reaction to him by the establishment

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. The media is trying hard to create a narrative

That pleases the establishment

[Eric J in MN]

8. The Clinton campaign

Last edited Tue May 24, 2016, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)

...joined the Sanders campaign in suing Arizona for lack of polling places.

Maybe Clinton supporters will decide the process is rigged and never participate, again (according to the logic of that article.)

[cali]

9. Claire Foran has written piece after piece bashing Bernie and his supporters.

You can go back almost to the beginning of his campaign and see her bias.

She's been quite positive about Hillary.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. So be compliment in covering up problems with the system or Sanders is the bad guy?

What kind of logic is that?

[Gothmog]

12. Thisi s a great article

[GreatGazoo]

13. Vote counts that beat exit polls by upto 14%, voter purges in Brooklyn,

paid trolls on the internet... none of that is on Sanders.

What an ugly pretzel of logic that article is!

[Orsino]

16. MSM is right: Bernie shouldn't challenge the status quo...

...because if he does, no one might challenge the status quo.

Or something.

[virtualobserver]

61. the only way for us to win, is to give up.

[socialist_n_TN]

17. Why do people in the punditry class always assume......

that politics is only about elections and the existing political parties? Instead of just giving up the disenfranchised might decide that the only place to force any real change is in the streets and in the workplaces.

Classic Reds have seen this coming for a long time. We'd welcome disenfranchised lefties to a REAL revolution.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Because it has worked so far

I am not sure it will this time.

[socialist_n_TN]

48. True. Generals always begin a new war with the tactics of the old........

nm

[NurseJackie]

18. Short-term gains at the expense of long-term losses ...

... that sounds about right. He's doing it wrong.

[TheKentuckian]

20. Sanders is not the cause of the discontent, the broken/bought political system, or the lack of faith

about the possibilities for positive change.

You may as well blame the canary in the coal mine with this line of reasoning.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yup

We had a long article at Reporting San Diego tracing this to NAFTA and the Reagan years.

[B Calm]

29. Trashing Thread

[lagomorph777]

31. Resistance is futile! Give up now!

It breaks my heart to see such panic in Camp Hillary. If they believed in their candidate they wouldn't be desperately begging Bernie to drop out.

[bettyellen]

33. I love that pic! So silly, and so awesome because it. Ahhh, memes.

[Agschmid]

37. Most of us aren't.

[DCBob]

46. Is their something wrong with "begging" Bernie to work with us instead against us?

We do have a common enemy.

[arcane1]

52. That's what primaries are for: to choose the best candidate.

Some of us would like the opportunity to make that choice. It's called "democracy".

[DCBob]

55. Yes, but its over. There is essentially no way Bernie can catch up. Hillary will be our nominee.

It time to move on to the general.

[arcane1]

56. Copy/paste/repeat n/t

[DCBob]

58. Its remarkable its needs to be repeated for something so obvious.

[OrwellwasRight]

65. Democracy for all of us isn't consistent with "it's over"

Democracy means everyone gets to have a say, even those of us who happen to live in the most populous state in the nation or even the nation's capital. Calling an election before everyone has participated is undemocratic. But I guess since your preferred candidate is ahead, the rest of us and our right to vote doesn't matter to you.

Nothing to see here, just the rights of millions of Americans being swept under the rug by by those who pride themselves on being "Democrats."

[DCBob]

67. Almost every primary in history is called long before the final votes are cast...

if one candidate is clearly going to win as is the case here.

[OrwellwasRight]

68. And it has never been OK.

But I like your "that's the way it's always been done" thinking. The epitome of progress!

[DCBob]

69. Why is it not ok?

If the result is a forgone conclusion what is the point of wasting time money and effort beating each other up? Especially when the real opponent on the other side is already been determined and relentlessly attacking.

[OrwellwasRight]

70. I already explained above.

It's called democracy. If you don't understand democracy, I can't help you.

[DCBob]

71. I dont think you understand the purpose of a primary.

It is meant to select the party's nominee then as soon as possible to rally around that nominee so there is momentum going into the general election campaign. The worst possible result would be a long drawn out contentious battle to the bitter end. That will only benefit the GOP.

[OrwellwasRight]

72. I don't think you understand the purpose of an election.

Which is to give every eligible voter a say so that even if they vote for the losing side, they feel they had a choice in a fair system and can live with the results. The more people are silenced and told their votes don't matter, the more the system loses legitimacy.

[DCBob]

73. Winning the general is the main goal.

Don't lose sight of that.

[merrily]

63. Bashing is not begging. Not even close.

[highprincipleswork]

34. Yeah, and monkeys may fly out of the Atlantic's butt also. We're not stopping. We're not giving up.

Regardless.

Frank Zappa used to like to say, "The present day composer refuses to die", roughly quoting Edgar Varèse.

Well the modern day Progressive Movement and Progressive Solution refuses to die also, especially since so many ordinary Americans, from Democrat to Independent and yes, even some Republicans are just calling out for it.

If the Democratic Party would just harness this energy, it would be unstoppable, especially in this election.

[Peace Patriot]

44. Lol! I go to the Atlantic to find out what the military brass and the CIA are thinking.

That's how I figured out that Cheney-Rumsfeld's plan to nuke Iran had been foiled. But you do have to be able to read between the lines a bit. They don't just come out and tell you that they will force Rumsfeld to resign or curtail Cheney in the final two years of the Bush junta, and that they will make talk of nuking Iran go away pretty much instantly at the end of 2006 (such talk was quite big in '06 if you'll recall). But when you read how stupid nuking Iran would be, in the Atlantic, by former military brass, and you see the CIA going after Cheney for outing its WMD counter-proliferation agents (via the Fitzgerald investigation), and you see Bush Sr. convening an "old CIA" commission (including Leon Panetta) on the clusterfuck in Iraq (read Iran), then you are able to start adding things up. The Atlantic is quite useful in this respect. Its rumblings come from the Deep.

So, the word from the MIC is that Bernie Sanders had better start LYING about how rigged the system is, and ought to convince his supporters to settle for less than real reform. Or else.

I don't know what the "or else" is in this case. The "or else" to Cheney was, I surmise, that he had better fucking forget about nuking Iran or he, too, would be forced to resign, and if he continues fucking with the CIA, they will ping his pacemaker. I have no doubt that "or else's" are attached to Atlantic articles. But this particular article is so flabby and blathery about how revolution-minded young people ought to achieve their "agenda," that they don't give much clue to what will happen otherwise. It may be enough for us to know that it is rigged (no question about it, if The Atlantic is advising Sanders not to say so); they want Hillary, the cipher for all MIC desires, all bought and paid for, and we had better get used to it...or else.

What will they do if Sanders supporters won't "get used to it" but, say, challenge the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines (and the voter registration software), and foment a REAL "Boston Tea Party."

Seattle '99 might be the template. Militarized police riots. (Do read the Seattle City Council report on the firing of their police chief.) I dunno. If we're nice, we get $12/hr, and Social Security for another decade or so. If we're not nice....

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I keep making references to Seattle but I suspect most here, especially of certain bent, have no

clue

[Skwmom]

45. Somebody wants a bonus in their corporate paycheck.

[snowy owl]

51. Totally.

[seabeyond]

49. He has misstepped every step of the way in his dogmatic narrow, chip on the shoulder thinking.

He will continue to misstep being at the least consistent. By the time he blows up the convention, like he is laying down the plans, the grown up will simply look at the tantrum and move on to do the work where we need to.

[snowy owl]

53. No hate here, huh? Think maybe you are a little emotional?

[seabeyond]

54. Nope. Think you ought to give up defining others?

[snowy owl]

66. Just call it like I read it.

[seabeyond]

74. You really aren't gifted at it.

[snowy owl]

50. Self-serving and improbable. Progressives came back after Obama. There's no there there.

These people get paid to write.

[JDPriestly]

57. Bernie looks at the big picture far better than does Hillary, hence is vote against

the Iraq War Resolution and hers for it.

Bernie should follow his conscience. He does not need advice from those who would pamper the corrupt bunch leading in D.C. right now.


I'm with Bernie. I volunteer and canvass, and Hillary needs to be aware of the fact that out here on the street, we hear people say they won't vote for Hillary no matter what.

She is going to have to be much nicer than she has been so far if she wants to win the votes of Bernie supporters.

Rahm Emmanuel's insult about those of us who are progressives has not been forgotten.

I registered voters on college campuses, and the youth of America are behind Bernie in huuuuge numbers.

Hillary is the one who needs to compromise if she wants to bring Bernie voters to the polls in November.

Progressives have other alternatives that were not available in earlier years or that, when Obama was the nominee, were not so popular. Hillary should not be overconfident and smug. Huuuuuuge mistake!

[DCBob]

62. I dont think so.

He has a narrow vision of the nation's and the world's problem hence his simplistic and nearly identical solutions to almost everything... economics.

[Todays_Illusion]

59. This is a pro-Hillary publication and this one gave us the "BernieBros."

"...This was a pointed reference to the group of supporters of Bernie Sanders commonly known as "Berniebros," in the evocative formulation coined by the Atlantic's Rob Meyer. "Berniebros," as a concept, refers to presumably young, presumably white and most-definitely male backers of Sanders who launch the sorts of attacks to which Bill Clinton was referring and the sorts of attacks that have become part of the everyday life of women online: harassing, offensive, vituperative. ..."


My theory is first they astroturffed the attack gang then thought up the clever name, naturally they have the right to name their own creation.



The quote is from here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/08/are-the-berniebros-a-problem-of-politics-or-one-of-internet-culture/

[merrily]

64. The Hillary campaign gave us "Bernie Bros," just like it gave it us "Obama boys." MSM did catapult

the bullshit propaganda, though. Remembering which ones did that for future reference is a good thing. Thanks.

[Beacool]

60. He joined the party to tear it up, not to build it.

He tried to hijack the party, but now that it's evident that he won't be the nominee, he doesn't give a hoot about bringing the party down and its prospective nominee too. nasty and bitter man!!!!