2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Atlantic: Sanders may be damaging his own cause.. supporters may give up reform is possible.
In the short-term, accusing party elites of unfairly intervening in the political process might have a political payoff. It will likely motivate die-hard Sanders supporters to volunteer or donate money. And it could help Sanders gain leverage in the lead up to the Democratic National Convention. Fearful of the party being torn apart, party leaders may be more deferential to Sanderss demands in the hope that he will ultimately help broker peace. There are already indications that the senator is starting to get his way. On Monday, The Washington Post reported that Sanders has been given unprecedented say over the Democratic Party platform, noting that party officials have permitted him to name five people to the 15-member committee that writes the platform.
But in the long-term, the same strategy could undermine Sanderss goal of creating a lasting political movement. If the campaign suggests the primary election has not proceeded fairly, its supporters may give up on the idea that political reform is even possible. The Boston College political science professor David Hopkins describes the risk this way: Complaints about a rigged system may breed more apathy and cynicism than motivation to remain productively active in party politics, he wrote in an analysis of the Nevada convention. If the lesson drawn by Sanders and his supporters from the 2016 nomination race is the fix is in rather than good startlets get em next time, it will be harder to sustain momentum for their agenda within the Democratic Party and the electoral arena more broadly past the end of this campaign.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/bernie-sanders-dnc/483965/
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I hope this is not the case as we do need reform, serious reform. Bernie needs to look at the big picture. He needs to come to grips with the fact he is not going to win and focus on what's best for the future of the country. He could play a big role by helping to motivate his followers to keep pushing to improve things in a positive way rather than just complaining and bashing and insisting the system is completely screwed up beyond all repair. That wont motivate people to work to fix the system or vote to defeat the Republicans.
There is an opportunity for real change to happen in the next few years.. will it be more liberal/progressive or will it be more authoritarian/conservative? Bernie and his followers can help push the change in the direction they want.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The same MSM that missed trump and got Occupy wrong. This is much bigger than this election
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I think that is the main point of the article. Bernie seems to be focusing on this election and not looking at the big picture down the road and if he convinces many that the system is completely screwed up and "the fix is in" they may give up on politics.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And this goes back to at least the Battle of Seattle. The youth are not partisans. Neither am I for the record. What this will do though...and the New Yorker is missing it as good MSM they are...lack of imagination...is that kids will be further radicalized and understand. I did already, that change does not come from the ballot booth...but the streets. Ah, I am 18 again in Mexico City
Enjoy, you have sown the wind...the whirlwind is coming. I mean it. I will cover it but kids, the youth, many of them will vote in down ballot where they know the candidates. Otherwise many of them believe the system is even more corrupt than you can imagine. Or even than I do. I mean I will vote for whoever the software decide I did...many of them don't believe it will be counted, period. The shenanigans, or what we used to call the torta factor, has to be overcome, if at all possible.
The kids know the economic collapse is coming, due to an ecological collapse. Your generation has chosen the hard landing. Trump is the hardest landing...they will not quite forgive you. Yes, in ten, max twenty years, your precious Supreme Court will not matter. Enjoy the good times...the hard ones are coming. They know it. You made your choice and the New Yorker is missing this. I wonder if they even talk to 18 year olds as well peers?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Your precious supreme court? What the fuckity fuck?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am looking forwards to people like you getting it
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And I think it sucks. SBS campaign has heavily increased cynicism from what I have seen. YMMV.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)That is a symptom of something much much bigger than a single election. To me it confirmed what I already knew. I pretend to vote, who I vote for is actually determined by who counts the vote.
The torta factor was there to be obvious in 2000. This election we have seen it in spades. I don't blame them, I get it. This is far more widespread than you think
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)first time out. That no one can be bothered talking about how the GOP has been disenfranchising voters on a huge scale- that they are not in the least interested in blaming anyone but Hillary tells me all I need to know.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Did you miss my reference to 2000. And you missed Brooklyn
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Look tribal or rather partisan thinking will not change this reality. Both parties are now doing it. Yes, republicans, for the moment, are getting the gold medal. But both are doing it. Machine politics is ugly and yes, my vote will be counted as whoever wishes to count is as decides it will count. I got no say, really.
And the kids are very aware of this. The election confirmed their worst fears. The system is rotten to the core and rigged against their hopes and aspirations. Power concedes nothing. So voting, and I have heard it from kids, is a waste of time. Think about that one. I have no counter.
I am too stubborn so I will continue to pretend to vote. But think carefully what comes next when people conclude the system is rigged. Or rather they get confirmation of their worst fears
Remain being a partisan. Myself I am listening to those kids. You and I have sown the wind.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I also think they a wrong more often than right. But simple black and white thinking is comforting for the masses, whatever their age.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Have fun thinking it is just about the election
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)They COULD have big impact, and choose not to. Selling them this bottomless cynicism - and lies about "they're all the same" does not help. Politics are a negotiation, and they do not come to the table.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Which you keep missing
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)If they want to change the system, voting is a crucial part of it. Like it or not, their own communities are also awash in corruption, but that isn't as sexy to deal with. Midterms are a bore. The president will either put on a cape and save us all or make a pact with the devil and send us all to our doom. That is the level of critical thinking I often see out there.
When they are older and see things less as black and white, then they start voting. Sad.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The day of the "election."
Been going on and building since Seattle
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Just like they do not cover labor, of course you have no idea
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)As you like to call your staff of one on your blog.
You're just an opinion like any other, despite covering local news for your own enjoyment. Don't let the press credentials go to your head.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The causes of things like Occupy? I shall wait
In fact, this article is a perfect example of what I speak off
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)A whole lot more airtime.
This media blackout shit is ridiculous.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And some of that was on purpose. When you keep the media at bay...a complaint from working media...
Points for deflection though
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)That pleases the establishment
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Last edited Tue May 24, 2016, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)
...joined the Sanders campaign in suing Arizona for lack of polling places.
Maybe Clinton supporters will decide the process is rigged and never participate, again (according to the logic of that article.)
cali
(114,904 posts)You can go back almost to the beginning of his campaign and see her bias.
She's been quite positive about Hillary.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)What kind of logic is that?
Gothmog
(144,884 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)paid trolls on the internet... none of that is on Sanders.
What an ugly pretzel of logic that article is!
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...because if he does, no one might challenge the status quo.
Or something.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)that politics is only about elections and the existing political parties? Instead of just giving up the disenfranchised might decide that the only place to force any real change is in the streets and in the workplaces.
Classic Reds have seen this coming for a long time. We'd welcome disenfranchised lefties to a REAL revolution.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am not sure it will this time.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)nm
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... that sounds about right. He's doing it wrong.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)about the possibilities for positive change.
You may as well blame the canary in the coal mine with this line of reasoning.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We had a long article at Reporting San Diego tracing this to NAFTA and the Reagan years.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)It breaks my heart to see such panic in Camp Hillary. If they believed in their candidate they wouldn't be desperately begging Bernie to drop out.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)We do have a common enemy.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Some of us would like the opportunity to make that choice. It's called "democracy".
DCBob
(24,689 posts)It time to move on to the general.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Democracy means everyone gets to have a say, even those of us who happen to live in the most populous state in the nation or even the nation's capital. Calling an election before everyone has participated is undemocratic. But I guess since your preferred candidate is ahead, the rest of us and our right to vote doesn't matter to you.
Nothing to see here, just the rights of millions of Americans being swept under the rug by by those who pride themselves on being "Democrats."
DCBob
(24,689 posts)if one candidate is clearly going to win as is the case here.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)But I like your "that's the way it's always been done" thinking. The epitome of progress!
DCBob
(24,689 posts)If the result is a forgone conclusion what is the point of wasting time money and effort beating each other up? Especially when the real opponent on the other side is already been determined and relentlessly attacking.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)It's called democracy. If you don't understand democracy, I can't help you.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)It is meant to select the party's nominee then as soon as possible to rally around that nominee so there is momentum going into the general election campaign. The worst possible result would be a long drawn out contentious battle to the bitter end. That will only benefit the GOP.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Which is to give every eligible voter a say so that even if they vote for the losing side, they feel they had a choice in a fair system and can live with the results. The more people are silenced and told their votes don't matter, the more the system loses legitimacy.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Don't lose sight of that.
merrily
(45,251 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Regardless.
Frank Zappa used to like to say, "The present day composer refuses to die", roughly quoting Edgar Varèse.
Well the modern day Progressive Movement and Progressive Solution refuses to die also, especially since so many ordinary Americans, from Democrat to Independent and yes, even some Republicans are just calling out for it.
If the Democratic Party would just harness this energy, it would be unstoppable, especially in this election.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)That's how I figured out that Cheney-Rumsfeld's plan to nuke Iran had been foiled. But you do have to be able to read between the lines a bit. They don't just come out and tell you that they will force Rumsfeld to resign or curtail Cheney in the final two years of the Bush junta, and that they will make talk of nuking Iran go away pretty much instantly at the end of 2006 (such talk was quite big in '06 if you'll recall). But when you read how stupid nuking Iran would be, in the Atlantic, by former military brass, and you see the CIA going after Cheney for outing its WMD counter-proliferation agents (via the Fitzgerald investigation), and you see Bush Sr. convening an "old CIA" commission (including Leon Panetta) on the clusterfuck in Iraq (read Iran), then you are able to start adding things up. The Atlantic is quite useful in this respect. Its rumblings come from the Deep.
So, the word from the MIC is that Bernie Sanders had better start LYING about how rigged the system is, and ought to convince his supporters to settle for less than real reform. Or else.
I don't know what the "or else" is in this case. The "or else" to Cheney was, I surmise, that he had better fucking forget about nuking Iran or he, too, would be forced to resign, and if he continues fucking with the CIA, they will ping his pacemaker. I have no doubt that "or else's" are attached to Atlantic articles. But this particular article is so flabby and blathery about how revolution-minded young people ought to achieve their "agenda," that they don't give much clue to what will happen otherwise. It may be enough for us to know that it is rigged (no question about it, if The Atlantic is advising Sanders not to say so); they want Hillary, the cipher for all MIC desires, all bought and paid for, and we had better get used to it...or else.
What will they do if Sanders supporters won't "get used to it" but, say, challenge the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines (and the voter registration software), and foment a REAL "Boston Tea Party."
Seattle '99 might be the template. Militarized police riots. (Do read the Seattle City Council report on the firing of their police chief.) I dunno. If we're nice, we get $12/hr, and Social Security for another decade or so. If we're not nice....
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)clue
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)He will continue to misstep being at the least consistent. By the time he blows up the convention, like he is laying down the plans, the grown up will simply look at the tantrum and move on to do the work where we need to.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)These people get paid to write.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)the Iraq War Resolution and hers for it.
Bernie should follow his conscience. He does not need advice from those who would pamper the corrupt bunch leading in D.C. right now.
I'm with Bernie. I volunteer and canvass, and Hillary needs to be aware of the fact that out here on the street, we hear people say they won't vote for Hillary no matter what.
She is going to have to be much nicer than she has been so far if she wants to win the votes of Bernie supporters.
Rahm Emmanuel's insult about those of us who are progressives has not been forgotten.
I registered voters on college campuses, and the youth of America are behind Bernie in huuuuge numbers.
Hillary is the one who needs to compromise if she wants to bring Bernie voters to the polls in November.
Progressives have other alternatives that were not available in earlier years or that, when Obama was the nominee, were not so popular. Hillary should not be overconfident and smug. Huuuuuuge mistake!
DCBob
(24,689 posts)He has a narrow vision of the nation's and the world's problem hence his simplistic and nearly identical solutions to almost everything... economics.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)"...This was a pointed reference to the group of supporters of Bernie Sanders commonly known as "Berniebros," in the evocative formulation coined by the Atlantic's Rob Meyer. "Berniebros," as a concept, refers to presumably young, presumably white and most-definitely male backers of Sanders who launch the sorts of attacks to which Bill Clinton was referring and the sorts of attacks that have become part of the everyday life of women online: harassing, offensive, vituperative. ..."
My theory is first they astroturffed the attack gang then thought up the clever name, naturally they have the right to name their own creation.
The quote is from here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/08/are-the-berniebros-a-problem-of-politics-or-one-of-internet-culture/
merrily
(45,251 posts)the bullshit propaganda, though. Remembering which ones did that for future reference is a good thing. Thanks.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)He tried to hijack the party, but now that it's evident that he won't be the nominee, he doesn't give a hoot about bringing the party down and its prospective nominee too. nasty and bitter man!!!!