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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:28 PM May 2016

''Regimes become corrupt when the propertied rich manipulate the laws.'' -- Thomas Paine, 1776



Thomas certainly would understand the workings of today's Wall Street-on-the Potomac.



From Tom Paine: A Political Life by John Keane:

If, as Paine thought, regimes become corrupt when the propertied rich manipulate the laws to grind down the poor, then a young republic like America could easily suffer the same fate, especially if its citizens fell under the influence of self-interested men of property. "A rich man makes a bonny traitor," he told his friend Joseph Reed, quoting James I. If that was so, then republican principles must be extended to the sphere of economic life. Men of wealth must be tamed by public ethics. Property and its corresponding "liberal" values must be subject to the universal "civic humanist" rule of civil and political rights. That would not fully eliminate disparities of wealth. But the availability of rights to all adult, male citizens, not just to property owners, would ensure ongoing controversies about how to divide that which is divisible. Such controversies would ensure that existing patterns of wealth and inequality would never be seen as natural, as reflecting the will of God, or as a brutal fact of economic life.

SOURCE:

http://goo.gl/IUHrKR



I wonder if he would recognize the place.

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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''Regimes become corrupt when the propertied rich manipulate the laws.'' -- Thomas Paine, 1776 (Original Post) Octafish May 2016 OP
Bullseye. mmonk May 2016 #1
Freaking Nostradamus. Octafish May 2016 #3
Yep. And the beat goes on. mmonk May 2016 #14
They have taken over the "Numbers" Downwinder May 2016 #20
Just say, ''National Security.'' Octafish May 2016 #23
There it is! bobthedrummer May 2016 #28
Everybody loves Paine Mike__M May 2016 #2
On the Cause of Revolution Octafish May 2016 #4
+1, Sanders outspent Clinton 2 to 1 he spent big money on a marketing and no message uponit7771 May 2016 #5
Where is Hillary on this, though? She got more in two speeches than Sanders' net worth. Octafish May 2016 #6
Connection between $$$ and politics. Why do Americans vote to keep themselves poor? snowy owl May 2016 #15
These are the wealthiest times in human history, yet the best we can do is AUSTERITY? Octafish May 2016 #22
Few pay attn to these facts. That is our misery. Too many not feeling the pain...yet. snowy owl May 2016 #30
Your comment doesn't even make sense but if any part of it was true, so what? Peace Patriot May 2016 #10
What does make sense is he's losin by 3 million votes... everything else is bullshit uponit7771 May 2016 #13
Awesome argument the Hillarians make. Policy schmolicy; She's the presumptuous nominee! lagomorph777 May 2016 #17
Yes, democracy is a great argument to make for Sanders endorsing Clinton now and still campaigning uponit7771 May 2016 #19
Got anything to say about Tom Paine, uponit7771? Peace Patriot May 2016 #11
I do have something to say about Bugs Bunny, they're both about as relevant to the point at hand uponit7771 May 2016 #12
LOL pmorlan1 May 2016 #27
Great quote EndElectoral May 2016 #7
They had to face the Crown in 1776. Today, we have to face an Oligarchy. Octafish May 2016 #32
Plutarch - circa 100ad Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #8
So we're not the first empire to fall this way... lagomorph777 May 2016 #18
It's a time honored tradition of crumbling empires. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #21
Plutarch understood. Octafish May 2016 #35
Great quote, thanks. nt Zorra May 2016 #9
K&R silvershadow May 2016 #16
K&R n/t bobthedrummer May 2016 #24
That should be at the Philly rallies. Skwmom May 2016 #25
Well that is one way regimes become corrupt. puffy socks May 2016 #26
Thanks, great point. Voters need to remember, the course can be changed. closeupready May 2016 #29
People are like animals. They need routine and fear risk. Barely making it better than not making it snowy owl May 2016 #31
K&R for the original post and subsequent informative posts and links. JEB May 2016 #33
K&R!! felix_numinous May 2016 #34

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
3. Freaking Nostradamus.
Tue May 24, 2016, 01:58 PM
May 2016

The guy was liberal for his day. For too many, he still sounds like a revolutionary.



How Corrupt Is the American Government?

See For Yourself


Posted on January 5, 2016 by WashingtonsBlog

Government corruption has become rampant:

Senior SEC employees spent up to 8 hours a day surfing porn sites instead of cracking down on financial crimes

Nuclear Regulatory Commission workers watch porn instead of cracking down on unsafe conditions at nuclear plants

SNIP...

A high-level Federal Reserve official says quantitative easing is “the greatest backdoor Wall Street bailout of all time”

SNIP...

Congress recently told the courts that Congress can’t be investigated for insider trading

SNIP...

The Bush White House worked hard to smear CIA officers, bloggers and anyone else who criticized the Iraq war

CONTINUED...

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/01/corrupt-american-government.html

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
23. Just say, ''National Security.''
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:21 PM
May 2016

S'like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.



FBI saw threat of mortgage crisis

A top official warned of widening loan fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.


By Richard B. Schmitt
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

August 25, 2008

WASHINGTON — Long before the mortgage crisis began rocking Main Street and Wall Street, a top FBI official made a chilling, if little-noticed, prediction: The booming mortgage business, fueled by low interest rates and soaring home values, was starting to attract shady operators and billions in losses were possible.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic," Chris Swecker, the FBI official in charge of criminal investigations, told reporters in September 2004. But, he added reassuringly, the FBI was on the case. "We think we can prevent a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis," he said.

Today, the damage from the global mortgage meltdown has more than matched that of the savings-and-loan bailouts of the 1980s and early 1990s. By some estimates, it has made that costly debacle look like chump change. But it's also clear that the FBI failed to avert a problem it had accurately forecast.

Banks and brokerages have written down more than $300 billion of mortgage-backed securities and other risky investments in the last year or so as homeowner defaults leaped and weakness in the real estate market spread.

SNIP…

Most observers have declared the mess a gross failure of regulation. To be sure, in the run-up to the crisis, market-oriented federal regulators bragged about their hands-off treatment of banks and other savings institutions and their executives. But it wasn't just regulators who were looking the other way. The FBI and its parent agency, the Justice Department, are supposed to act as the cops on the beat for potentially illegal activities by bankers and others. But they were focused on national security and other priorities, and paid scant attention to white-collar crimes that may have contributed to the lending and securities debacle.

Now that the problems are out in the open, the government's response strikes some veteran regulators as too little, too late.

Swecker, who retired from the FBI in 2006, declined to comment for this article.

But sources familiar with the FBI budget process, who were not authorized to speak publicly about the growing fraud problem, say that he and other FBI criminal investigators sought additional assistance to take on the mortgage scoundrels.

They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.

CONTINUED…

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mortgagefraud25-2008aug25,0,6946937.story



Of course, we know who got left holding that $24 trillion bag. Same ones left holding the $1 trillions S&L I.O.Us.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. On the Cause of Revolution
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:02 PM
May 2016

O ye that love mankind! Ye that dare oppose, not only the tyranny, but the tyrant, stand forth! Every spot of the old world is overrun with oppression. Freedom hath been hunted round the globe. Asia, and Africa, have long expelled her. — Europe regards her like a stranger, and England hath given her warning to depart. O! receive the fugitive, and prepare in time an asylum for mankind.

-- Common Sense

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
6. Where is Hillary on this, though? She got more in two speeches than Sanders' net worth.
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:23 PM
May 2016


Bernie Sanders (I-Vt) ranks 84th in the Senate with an estimated net worth* of $417,515 in 2013.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/summary.php?cid=N00000528&year=2013


vs.

The Complete Breakdown Of Every Hillary And Bill Clinton Speech, And Fee, Since 2013

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-03/every-hillary-and-bill-clinton-speech-2013-fees


You ever hear how Phil Gramm and Bill Clinton, the two key figures in the repeal of Glass Seagall, now work together in Wealth Management at UBS? That's a $24 Trillion can of worms.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
15. Connection between $$$ and politics. Why do Americans vote to keep themselves poor?
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:53 PM
May 2016

Only in 1925 was the tax rate similar today's. Run up to the gilded age. The problem is clear. Why do Americans vote to keep themselves poor?

History of income tax rates adjusted for inflation (1913–2010)[69][70]
Number of First Bracket Top Bracket
Year Brackets Rate Rate Income Adj. 2015[62][71] Comment
1913 7 1% 7% $500,000 $12 million First permanent income tax
1917 21 2% 67% $2,000,000 $36.9 million World War I financing
1925 23 1.5% 25% $100,000 $1.35 million Post war reductions
1932 55 4% 63% $1,000,000 $17.3 million Depression era
1936 31 4% 79% $5,000,000 $85.3 million -
1941 32 10% 81% $5,000,000 $80.4 million World War II
1942 24 19% 88% $200,000 $2.9 million Revenue Act of 1942
1944 24 23% 94% $200,000 $2.69 million Individual Income Tax Act of 1944
1946 24 20% 91% $200,000 $2.43 million -
1964 26 16% 77% $400,000 $3.05 million Tax reduction during Vietnam war
1965 25 14% 70% $200,000 $1.5 million -
1981 16 14% 70% $215,400 $561 thousand Reagan era tax cuts
1982 14 12% 50% $85,600 $210 thousand Reagan era tax cuts
1987 5 11% 38.5% $90,000 $187 thousand Reagan era tax cuts
1988 2 15% 28% $29,750 $59.5 thousand Reagan era tax cuts

1991 3 15% 31% $82,150 $143 thousand Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
1993 5 15% 39.6% $250,000 $410 thousand Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
2003 6 10% 35% $311,950 $401 thousand Bush tax cuts
2011 6 10% 35% $379,150 $399 thousand -
2013 7 10% 39.6% $400,000 $406 thousand American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
22. These are the wealthiest times in human history, yet the best we can do is AUSTERITY?
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:18 PM
May 2016
Slap-in-the-Face Wealth Gap Images

by Paul Buchheit
Published on Monday, December 01, 2014 by Common Dreams

Just 70 individuals now own as much wealth as half the world. In the U.S., the richest 40 individuals own as much as half the country, and the 16,000 American households in the top .01% have accumulated an average net worth of over a third of a billion dollars. As extreme wealth continues to grow out of control, inequality worsens for the rest of us, plaguing our country and our world, spreading like a terminal form of cancer. It should be a major news item in the mainstream media. But the well-positioned few are either oblivious to or uncaring about its effect on less fortunate people.

The data and charts (citations here) come from Forbes, Credit Suisse, and a recent study by Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman.

1. Just 70 Individuals Own As Much Wealth As Half the World



halftheworld.jpg

Less than a year ago, Oxfam reported that the richest 85 individuals owned as much wealth as half the world. But recently updated calculations reveal that the richest 70 individuals now own $1.842 trillion, more than the poorest half of the world.

We're drawing nearer to the fulfillment of Charles Koch's dream: "I want my fair share and that's all of it."


2. Just 40 Americans Own As Much Wealth As Half the United States



40americans.jpg

About a month ago it was 43, and a month before that it was 47. Now the richest 40 Americans (The Forbes 40) own a little over $1.092 trillion, about the same, according to calculations based on Credit Suisse data, as the poorest half of the country.

The national wealth that was created by all of us over many decades is quickly being redistributed to fewer and fewer incomprehensibly rich people.


One of the causes for this pathological transfer of wealth is revealed in the final image..

3. Stock/Equity Wealth of the Richest 12,000 Households Has Surpassed the Housing Wealth of 108,000,000 Households



stockequity.jpg

Just 35 years ago, the percentage of national wealth in middle-class housing (net of mortgages) was about seven times more than the percentage of national wealth in equities owned by the .01% (12,000 families). Now middle-class housing is only about half the value of those equities.

Saez and Zucman report that the total of corporate equities, bonds, and savings deposits owned by the .01% amounted to 2.2 percent of total U.S. household wealth in the mid-1980s, rising to 9.9 percent in 2012. Meanwhile, housing for the bottom 90% dropped from 15 percent of total household wealth to 5-6 percent. Since the bottom 50%, according to the authors, own almost zero wealth, the housing figures pertain to the 50-90% families, which can be described as "middle class."


Possible solutions are becoming clearer:

(1) A Financial Speculation Tax to slow down the flow of money to the takers

(2) Occupy Wall Street, Phase II


This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License

Paul Buchheit is a college teacher, an active member of US Uncut Chicago, founder and developer of social justice and educational websites (UsAgainstGreed.org, PayUpNow.org, RappingHistory.org), and the editor and main author of "American Wars: Illusions and Realities" (Clarity Press). He can be reached at paul@UsAgainstGreed.org.

SOURCE w/links to details: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/01/slap-face-wealth-gap-images

Perhaps only the propertied slavemaster can find a moral way to go along with that one.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
30. Few pay attn to these facts. That is our misery. Too many not feeling the pain...yet.
Tue May 24, 2016, 06:02 PM
May 2016

I'm set just fine. My lookout is for the common good. If these people don't care, why should I? Clinton is bullseye in a world of dark money. Tired of providing facts. Aren't you?

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
10. Your comment doesn't even make sense but if any part of it was true, so what?
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:36 PM
May 2016

Sanders' millions of small donors--including this one--trust his judgement. He has never, not even once, done anything in his career of public service that was not in the interests of the 99%. Nothing! Name one thing. Name even a little one. A 40 year career with absolute devotion to public service and the common good. So his "marketing" is not a concern. It is you Clinton supporters who have a "marketing" problem.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
17. Awesome argument the Hillarians make. Policy schmolicy; She's the presumptuous nominee!
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:08 PM
May 2016

And screw the General Election; as long she's the nominee she can make piles of cash in this campaign.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
19. Yes, democracy is a great argument to make for Sanders endorsing Clinton now and still campaigning
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:11 PM
May 2016

... for all the votes he can get instead of wasting peoples time and resources

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
32. They had to face the Crown in 1776. Today, we have to face an Oligarchy.
Tue May 24, 2016, 06:39 PM
May 2016

Either way, the connected few get the gold mine and We the People get the shaft.



The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Report by researchers from Princeton and Northwestern universities suggests that US political system serves special interest organisations, instead of voters


By Zachary Davies Boren
The Telegraph (London) 16 Apr 2014

The US government does not represent the interests of the majority of the country's citizens, but is instead ruled by those of the rich and powerful, a new study from Princeton and Northwestern Universities has concluded.

The report, entitled Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens, used extensive policy data collected from between the years of 1981 and 2002 to empirically determine the state of the US political system.

After sifting through nearly 1,800 US policies enacted in that period and comparing them to the expressed preferences of average Americans (50th percentile of income), affluent Americans (90th percentile) and large special interests groups, researchers concluded that the United States is dominated by its economic elite.

The peer-reviewed study, which will be taught at these universities in September, says: "The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."

Researchers concluded that US government policies rarely align with the the preferences of the majority of Americans, but do favour special interests and lobbying organisations: "When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organised interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favour policy change, they generally do not get it."

CONTINUED...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html



Gee. For some reason, this story did not get much coverage in the USA.
 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
8. Plutarch - circa 100ad
Tue May 24, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016
“The abuse of buying and selling votes crept in and money began to play an important part in etermining elections. Later on, this process of corruption spread in the law courts and to the army, and finally, when even the sword became enslaved by the power of gold, the republic was subjected to the rule of emperors.” —Plutarch
 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
21. It's a time honored tradition of crumbling empires.
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

They make a lot of enemies with their rapaciousness, try to defend themselves with a "strong military" (not to mention expensive), and then fail.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
35. Plutarch understood.
Wed May 25, 2016, 11:47 PM
May 2016

Michael Parenti explains its meaning for our time:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/21/what-bradley-manning-revealed/



"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."
 – United States founding father Patrick Henry (1775)
 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
26. Well that is one way regimes become corrupt.
Tue May 24, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

la Terreur is the another way from the bottom up revolutionary types.

The Reign of Terror (6 September 1793 – 28 July 1794),[1] also known as The Terror (French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution". The death toll ranged in the tens of thousands, with 16,594 executed by guillotine (2,639 in Paris),[2] and another 25,000 in summary executions across France.[3]

The guillotine (called the "National Razor&quot became the symbol of the revolutionary cause, strengthened by a string of executions: King Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, the Girondins, Philippe Égalité (Louis Philippe II, Duke of Orléans), and Madame Roland, and others such as pioneering chemist Antoine Lavoisier, lost their lives under its blade. During 1794, revolutionary France was beset with conspiracies by internal and foreign enemies. Within France, the revolution was opposed by the French nobility, which had lost its inherited privileges. The Roman Catholic Church opposed the revolution, which had turned the clergy into employees of the state and required they take an oath of loyalty to the nation (through the Civil Constitution of the Clergy). In addition, the French First Republic was engaged in a series of wars with neighboring powers, and parts of France were engaging in civil war against the republican regime.

The extension of civil war and the advance of foreign armies on national territory produced a political crisis and increased the already present rivalry between the Girondins and the more radical Jacobins. The latter were eventually grouped in the parliamentary faction called the Mountain, and they had the support of the Parisian population. The French government established the Committee of Public Safety, which took its final form on 6 September 1793, in order to suppress internal counter-revolutionary activities and raise additional French military forces.

Through the Revolutionary Tribunal, the Terror's leaders exercised broad powers and used them to eliminate the internal and external enemies of the republic. The repression accelerated in June and July 1794, a period called la Grande Terreur (the Great Terror), and ended in the coup of 9 Thermidor Year II (27 July 1794), leading to the Thermidorian Reaction, in which several instigators of the Reign of Terror were executed, including Saint-Just and Robespierre.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
29. Thanks, great point. Voters need to remember, the course can be changed.
Tue May 24, 2016, 04:20 PM
May 2016

And, yes, it can be changed non-violently. People do not need to be passive witnesses in the rape of their nation by elected crooks.

They can get involved, vote, demonstrate, and even yell their displeasure at the appropriate time and place. Part of what this website was about, once.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
31. People are like animals. They need routine and fear risk. Barely making it better than not making it
Tue May 24, 2016, 06:06 PM
May 2016

That's all I can figure. Biggest wealth grab in history -2008 - didn't make a dent with so, so many.

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