2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOn June 14, Hillary Clinton Will Still Not Have an Absolute Delegate Majority
She'll still need super delegate votes at the convention. She'll have a clear majority of pledged delegates and popular votes, of course, but not the absolute majority of all delegates she needs to clinch the nomination. That's what I keep hearing and it appears to be true. So...
Sanders supporters will need to redouble their efforts to insult and threaten super delegates so they'll switch their votes from Hillary Clinton to Bernie Sanders. They need to go after those super delegates hard on their Facebook pages and Twitter feeds, and send them nasty emails threatening to primary them in the next election. It's the only way.
That should do the trick. Yup.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)just committed to support Hillary Clinton. They're going to need to do moar attacks, moar insults and moar threats. That's obvious. They need to put the fear into the minds of those super delegates and force them to change their votes.
think
(11,641 posts)has never been about ethics has it? It's about manipulating the system as best you can in order to win.
Roberta Lange and her advisers like the guy whispering in her ear on the convention floor chose to manipulate the rules until they got the desired outcome they wanted.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)a. All delegates, alternates, and guests are entitled to attend and participate in the
convention free of harassment or intimidation. Anyone harassing or attempting to
intimidate any delegate, alternate, or guest to the convention shall be ejected from the
convention immediately and shall forfeit any fees paid for the convention or other
convention activities.
b. Any intentional disruption of any convention activities may result in immediate ejection
from the convention, including the forfeiture of any fees paid for the convention or
other convention activities.
c. Guests invited to speak to the convention shall not have their remarks or presentations
interrupted or interfered with in any manner, including auditory or visual distractions
from the floor. Violation of this rule may result in immediate ejection from the
convention, including the forfeiture of any fees paid for the convention or other
convention activities.
d. Noisemakers of any kind are prohibited at the convention.
e. Conversation on the floor should be kept to a minimum out of respect for guests,
delegates and speakers. Those delegates, alternates, and guests wishing to converse
should exit the floor.
f. The Sergeant(s) at Arms shall have the authority to enforce these rules with the
approval of the Convention Chair.
Source: http://nvdems.3cdn.net/ea5a7f0df495b0cf4c_z2m6bnqh5.pdf
think
(11,641 posts)refused to allow delegates to address being stripped of their credentials.
Lange acted like a dictator and resorted to changing dates and holding meetings in secret to add the new rules.
People get upset when the rules are fudged. Imagine that.
You post what amounts to noise ordinances and act disgusted that people spoke up after Lange chose to subvert the process. What a load of crap.
For others that want to learn about all this here is a link to a video of an interview with Erin Blibray. Erin was a Bernie supporter on the executive committee. She discusses how Lange subverted the rules to favor Clinton.
https://www.facebook.com/AdryennAshley/videos/vb.9583477694/10153761545822695/?type=2&theater
Erin's father, James Bilbray, is well known politician and Hillary supporter who was also at the convention. He was so upset by the shenanigans he tore up his ballot and left....
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Show me the video of the imaginary "melee". Can't? I didn't think so. Because hundreds of highly motivated Hillary supporters with cellphones couldn't come up with anything better than one idiot who was quickly talked out of doing anything. And in case you think anybody approves of such crap, I think that twit should've spent the night in jail, and he should be banned from any future political gathering.
dchill
(38,481 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)And almost all the super delegates...
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)'Sanders supporters will need to redouble their efforts to insult and threaten super delegates'
there's that troll bit within the post...
What about all the polls that clearly show HRC dead even with Trump whereas against Bernie he loses by a much wider margin?
but hey.. if you can't work the facts and truth into your post, run with the troll bit... that works EVERY TIME...
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I can always count on your kicks to keep my threads bumped up in the thread list.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)I don't 'like it', the 'troll-o'meter' just points to your posts more often...
I post replies in so many HRC supporters posts these days that I don't even realize whom it is that's posting due to the quantity of trollish posts from those same HRC supporters
B Calm
(28,762 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)are already printed. No matter what, those primary elections will still occur. Who is calling for them to be cancelled. That would be impossible, really.
It'll all be over on June 14. Every state and jurisdiction will have voted. The results will be known. I've never suggested that there wouldn't be more primary elections. Of course there will be.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Thanks.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a long-term (chronic) condition in which a person seems to actively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them. In the process, the person becomes increasingly hostile and angry.
Psychiatrists no longer recognize this condition as an official diagnosis. However, the symptoms are problematic to many people and may be helped by professional attention.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Thanks for the thread kick.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Thanks, any with a lick of sense knew that
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)the super delegates into changing their votes. That's exactly the point I made in my OP.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But we got the point. It is not over. As to coerce. I think polls, and a few other things might. You know the function of SD and so do I.
But I prefer the process to play out.
By the way, are these new shiny talking points? They are a tad more sophisticated than the usual
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I have no idea. I just start typing and they come off my fingertips. But shiny? I don't know.
PufPuf23
(8,771 posts)Why do you think that Hillary Clinton will do better in the general election then Sanders against Trump?
If you think Clinton will not do as well as Sanders but still win POTUS over Trump, why is the increased risk of a loss to Trump worthwhile?
Which of Clinton or Sanders do you think will help the down ticket Democrats more?
I think obvious that Sanders is better for down ticket than Clinton.
Why?
Sanders will bring out more Democratic voters (including non-party liberals and progressives, independents, new voters, and the young.
Clinton will bring out less Democratic voters and a much higher GOP turnout to attempt to block her becoming POTUS.
Can you define and contrast the terms socialism as compared to social democratic in economic and political philosophy?
Can you define and contrast the terms liberal and neo-liberal as the common 21st century usage regards to economic, political, and foreign policies?
Do you agree that the roles of the Democratic party super-delegates include to temper ill-advised grassroots or to adjust for change of gravitas that has occurred during the primary competition?
Thank you in advance.
Note I think that Clinton will likely win the Democratic party nomination and likely win the general POTUS but think Sanders or another Democratic candidate would be better suited as POTUS.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)If so, I hope you go and vote in it, as you prefer.
PufPuf23
(8,771 posts)I would be interested for you to answer my questions, I bet others here at DU would as well.
I read and take into account and sometimes learn things from your many posts.
The answers would make your posts easier to understand.
Folks would be less concerned that you are playing games.
Note that my posts to you are straight forward and the only agenda is for you to clarify yourself.
Thank you.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)As for your questions, they are off-topic in this thread, so I'm not going to post an answer to them. Sorry.
PufPuf23
(8,771 posts)Copied identical to other post:
Do you agree that the roles of the Democratic party super-delegates include to temper ill-advised grassroots or to adjust for change of gravitas that has occurred during the primary competition?
Thank you in advance.
Note I think that Clinton will likely win the Democratic party nomination and likely win the general POTUS but think Sanders or another Democratic candidate would be better suited as POTUS.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)They are an embarrassment to the party. And they simply reinforce the contention that the system is rigged in favor of the insiders and monied interests.
Hillary may well have gotten an absolute majority and enough to win outright without the supers. But the party bigwigs don't want the voters to have the final say...
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Time to get to work to scare them into switching their votes. That's clear, isn't it?
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)Many of them are suckling from the same corporate tweet as your gal Hillary. And that will be the death of the Democratic Party - courting favor with the powerful instead of the people.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)What's the hashtag?
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)Nm
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)That is a right wing fantasy.
RKP5637
(67,107 posts)wonder why many did not vote and some of the reasons become clearer all the time.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/05/clintons-closing-argument-to-superdelegates/53314/
"Dear ___________,
The stakes in this election are so high: with two wars abroad, our economy in crisis here at home, and so many families struggling across America, the need for new leadership has never been greater.
At this point, we do not yet have a nominee and when the last votes are cast on June 3, neither Senator Obama nor I will have secured the nomination. It will be up to automatic delegates like you to help choose our partys nominee, and I would like to tell you why I believe I am the stronger candidate against Senator McCain and would be the best President and Commander in Chief.
Voters in every state have made it clear that they want to be heard and counted as part of this historic race. And as we reach the end of the primary season, more than 17 million people have supported me in my effort to become the Democratic nominee more people than have ever voted for a potential nominee in the history of our party. In the past two weeks alone, record numbers of voters participated in the West Virginia and Kentucky primaries. And with 40 and 35 point margins of victory, it is clear that even when voters are repeatedly told this race is over, theyre not giving up on me and I am not giving up on them either.
After seven years of feeling invisible to the Bush administration, Americans are seeking a President who is strong, experienced, and ready to take on our toughest challenges, from serving as Commander in Chief and ending the war in Iraq to turning our economy around. They want a President who shares their core beliefs about our country and its future and gets what they go through every day to care for their families, pay the bills and try to put something away for the future.
We simply cannot afford another four or eight years in the wilderness. That is why, everywhere I go, people come up to me, grip my hand or arm, and urge me to keep on running. That is why I continue in this race: because I believe I am best prepared to lead this country as President and best prepared to put together a broad coalition of voters to break the lock Republicans have had on the electoral map and beat Senator McCain in November.
Recent polls and election results show a clear trend: I am ahead in states that have been critical to victory in the past two elections. From Ohio, to Pennsylvania, to West Virginia and beyond, the results of recent primaries in battleground states show that I have strong support from the regions and demographics Democrats need to take back the White House. I am also currently ahead of Senator McCain in Gallup national tracking polls, while Senator Obama is behind him. And nearly all independent analyses show that I am in a stronger position to win the Electoral College, primarily because I lead Senator McCain in Florida and Ohio. Ive enclosed a detailed analysis of recent electoral and polling information, and I hope you will take some time to review it carefully.
In addition, when the primaries are finished, I expect to lead in the popular vote and in delegates earned through primaries. Ultimately, the point of our primary process is to pick our strongest nominee the one who would be the best President and Commander in Chief, who has the greatest support from members of our party, and who is most likely to win in November. So I hope you will consider not just the strength of the coalition backing me, but also that more people will have cast their votes for me.
I am in this race for them -- for all the men and women I meet who wake up every day and work hard to make a difference for their families. People who deserve a shot at the American dream the chance to save for college, a home and retirement; to afford quality health care for their families; to fill the gas tank and buy the groceries with a little left over each month.
I am in this race for all the women in their nineties whove told me they were born before women could vote, and they want to live to see a woman in the White House. For all the women who are energized for the first time, and voting for the first time. For the little girls and little boys whose parents lift them onto their shoulders at our rallies, and whisper in their ears, See, you can be anything you want to be. As the first woman ever to be in this position, I believe I have a responsibility to them.
Finally, I am in this race because I believe staying in this race will help unite the Democratic Party. I believe that if Senator Obama and I both make our case and all Democrats have the chance to make their voices heard everyone will be more likely to rally around the nominee.
In the end, I am committed to unifying this party. What Senator Obama and I share is so much greater than our differences; and no matter who wins this nomination, I will do everything I can to bring us together and move us forward.
But at this point, neither of us has crossed the finish line. I hope that in the time remaining, you will think hard about which candidate has the best chance to lead our party to victory in November. I hope you will consider the results of the recent primaries and what they tell us about the mindset of voters in the key battleground states. I hope you will think about the broad and winning coalition of voters I have built. And most important, I hope you will think about who is ready to stand on that stage with Senator McCain, fight for the deepest principles of our party, and lead our country forward into this new century. "
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)She called for Obama's nomination by acclamation, remember? When it was clear that she would not win, due to a non-majority of pledged delegates, she conceded.
I'm sure Bernie will do the same after all the primaries have been held. His followers, though, I'm not so sure about. They may take things into their own hands and put the fear into those super delegates. That'll do it, for sure.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)I see... pivot from the actual 'redouble their efforts to insult and threaten super delegates' bit / angle of the purpose of HRC letter, which 'answers' your original posts point, I get it...
Odd you don't want to see the parallel there...
It's the same song and dance troll tune you want to cling to MM, I get it
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Was the goal to have them sleep through the convention?
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)it falls into MM's 'redouble their efforts' bit... except 'redoubling' HRC's lack of appeal just intensifies the 'Zzzzz' factor
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)Might be a short visit... not many brains to feed off of over in the HRC camp....
j/k...
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Of course, it may be hard to overturn millions of votes ...many of them women and minority voters...but it is really really important because after all it is the Bern we are talking about... I know way less people voted for him but but there are polls...yeah important polls to...I mean polls trump votes right? Well in Bernie land they do anyway. Good luck with that...the supers who have been insulted and belittled by Bernie and his supporters will laugh their butt off and then as they always do go with the candidate with the most pledged delegates...there were polls showing Romney beating Obama in California in 08 at the end of the primary...they are completely meaningless especially when you consider such polls have Clinton supporters too.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)GD: P will be so quiet