Whose votes have to be nullified to give Bernie the nom?

[bravenak]

I mean, she has millions more votes than him and millions of blacks and women and other assorted marginalized groups that voted for her at much much much higher percentages than for him.
Be kinda wrong to nullify the votes of millions of blacks down South to give the nomination to Bernie. Be like going back in time to when we ignored the voices of the eternally marginalized. Kinda like a New 3/5 compromise.

Just wondering how anybody in their right mind does not see the historical implications of making our black vote, our female votes, our minority votes, worth only 3/5 of a white liberal vote.

Can somebody explain why our votes should be nullified in favor of yours?

[insta8er]

1. Huuuuuuuuuuuuuugeeee, Millllliiions, Millioons, you know that it has been thoroughly debunked right?

selective counting of primaries and not the caucuses.

[bravenak]

5. Proof? Evidence?

[insta8er]

7. Even if it spit in your face you still would not believe it. So use google and find that

stuff yourself.

[bravenak]

9. I knew you had no evidence

[bravenak]

20. Just a lazy black lady, that's ME!!!

I refuse to do your work so I'M LAZY? Really?

[mcar]

40. Welcome back to DU!

Admit it, you missed all the love, didn't you?

[bravenak]

46. Ha ha ha!!

So much love, lol!

[RobertEarl]

101. How did that happen?

How does someone with so many hides get a free ride?

[NCTraveler]

106. "Free ride"

Look at the person that just told them to stuff it and lazy. Why didn't you mention it to them. Would you like for me to point to everyone with hides so you can question their participation?

I got a hide for calling the Pope a bigot. No shit. I called a bigot a bigot. The system was broken. But you are questioning Bravenak in the same conversation where she has been attacked.

[mcar]

113. And many others who had several hides are also back

Odd how just this one poster's record gets continually challenged, isn't it?

[Agschmid]

44. 4-3 Hide.

[bravenak]

45. Thanks

[floriduck]

85. I'm surprised there were only 4 voting to hide it.

[wildeyed]

115. They let the "spit in your face" post stand.

[pmorlan1]

49. Wash -Rinse & Repeat

Welcome back bravenak. I see you haven't changed a bit.

[rock]

108. Not only that, they have no logic

Their conclusions are exactly the opposite of what logic dictates.
Welcome back Bravenak! You have been missed.

[bravenak]

111. Funny that, since they deem themselves the arbiters of logic

Nice to be back, kinda. Miss you all.

[rock]

114. They're a lot lit the GOP

Hypocrites.

[bravenak]

119. And love them some Trump apparently

[Gothmog]

197. Facts are fun things to use

Some people do not like facts

[bravenak]

198. They find facts and math oppressing

Like an oligarchy

[George II]

65. So you present a "fact" and when questioned about that "fact" you tell the questioner....

...."find it yourself"?

That means only one thing.

[Gothmog]

196. Yes, Clinton is winning the popular vote — by a wide margin

Shaun King's analysis is simply wrong https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

The idea that the popular vote totals are flawed because caucuses aren't included has been floating around for a while. The point of questioning the sum is obvious: To question the extent to which Democratic voters (and independents voting in Democratic contests, who usually favor Sanders) have preferred Clinton as the party's nominee.

This has been floating around so long, in fact, The Post's fact-checkers looked at this issue at the beginning of April. Did Clinton at that point actually lead by 2.5 million votes, as she claimed? No, she didn't.

She led by 2.4 million votes.

The Post's Glenn Kessler arrived at that figure by taking estimates of how many people came out to vote in caucus contests and applying the final vote margin to that population. This is admittedly imprecise, as King notes, since in some caucuses (like Iowa's) voter preferences can and do change. Kessler's total included Washington, despite King's insistence -- and in Washington, he figured that Sanders had the support of 167,201 voters to Clinton's 62,330. Despite that, still a 2.4 million advantage for Clinton.

It's worth noting that caucuses, for which it's harder to calculate vote totals, are usually in smaller states and/or have smaller turnout. King's concern about ensuring Alaska's huge Democratic voting base is included in the tally is answered by Kessler's math.

What's more, Kessler continued updating his tally as results came in. The most recent update was after the contests on April 27, at which point her wins in New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland and other Northeastern states had extended her lead to "just over 3 million votes" -- including his estimates for the caucuses. (By my tabulation of Kessler's numbers, it's 3.03 million.)

Since then, there have been five contests.

Indiana. Sanders won with 32,152 more votes.
Guam. Clinton won with 249 more votes.
West Virginia. Sanders won with 30,509 more votes.
Kentucky. Clinton won with 1,924 more votes (per the latest AP count).
Oregon. Sanders won with 69,007 more votes (per AP).

In total, then, Clinton's lead over Sanders in the popular vote is 2.9 million. The difference isn't because the total excludes Washington. It's because it includes more recent contests from the past 14 days.

That number will continue to change. There are only two big states left -- New Jersey and California -- both of which vote June 7. Clinton leads by a wide margin in New Jersey, where more than a million people turned out in 2008. She has a smaller lead in California, where about 5 million voted in the Democratic primary eight years ago. For Sanders to pass Clinton in the popular vote, he would need turnout like 2008 in California -- and to win by 57 points.

The analysis in the articles cited is simply false

[KingFlorez]

8. Those caucuses don't add up to millions about votes

At best they were probably about 100,000 votes or maybe even less. IT WAS NOT FREAKING DEBUNKED! GET OVER IT!

[oasis]

15. Caucuses are bogus. No secret ballot and rampant bullying

from zealots.

[Chezboo]

97. As opposed to primaries where voters are purged, affiliations fraudulently changed,

votes swapped?

[oasis]

102. Voters who don't register with the Democratic Party on time

should not be allowed to vote against our nominee in the primary election. Period.

[Chezboo]

136. That has nothing to do with what I listed in my comment. nt

[George II]

17. Do you understand how caucuses work? Political analysts have estimated that....

....Sanders got maybe about 500,000* more votes than Clinton in the caucuses. Don't forget, just because Sanders won a few more caucuses than Clinton, it doesn't mean that she got zero votes in those states.

So, that brings her overall popular vote margin to about 2.5 million.

Funny thing though, in all the years I've been involved in this stuff and following the primaries and caucuses I don't recall ANY candidate's supporters complaining about "not counting caucus votes".


*this is just a wild ass guess erring on the HIGH side, probably much much lower.

[DLCWIdem]

50. well don't you know caucus votes count for double and you half to multiply by 7

That's only for Bernie of course
.

[George II]

57. And here all these years I've only been multiplying by 6.5

[Tarc]

34. Clinton leads Sanders by 3 million, give or take 100k

Sorry, but you're just going to have to deal with the cold reality; more (many, many more) prefer Hillary this election year.

[lunamagica]

36. It has NOT been debunked. Even Sanders admits it when he says he's gotten 9 million votes

Hillary has received 12.5 million votes.

See the difference?

You may want to read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107100955

[Corporate666]

84. You're wrong... you're repeating a thoroughly debunked claim

this came up just a day or two ago.

The "she is not leading by millions" trope came from Bernie sycophant Shaun King. His reasoning was that if you take the percentages and apply them to state populations, it closes the gap. But that is a really dishonest way to do it, considering that most of the population doesn't participate in primaries, so counting millions of votes that were never going to be cast is fraudulent.

The Washington post did 2 stories on this. Here is one updated as of a few days ago with the Oregon results:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

Some might say "The Washington Post!??!?! (clutch pearls)... they have had it in for Bernie forever!" - except baobob posted a biased and factually incorrect video that claimed WaPo proved the gap was closer. So the BS circulating about BS vote deficit makes claims about WaPo, so it's perfectly fair to use their *actual* stories to counter the lies that were stated in the hopes nobody would check.

Bernie is behind by ~3 million votes. Fact.

[Autumn]

2. 3/5 of a white liberal vote.

OMG Welcome back.

[bravenak]

6. I have a similar reaction to the idea of nullifying my vote

[Autumn]

13. No one is fucking nullifying anyone's vote.

But hey, have fun doing your thing.

[bravenak]

16. Of course they aren't

But they keep trying to call for it. Good Day, A!

[Autumn]

22. You ought to see some of the shit some Brockshit trolls are calling for.

[bravenak]

25. I dont know any brockshitrolls

[Autumn]

28. Okay

[hrmjustin]

18. No but several here want to as does Sanders.

[Autumn]

24. Oh the horror!!!

Paging Doctor Boudreaux !!! You would think some people here have never seen an election before.

[hrmjustin]

27. Well if you think it is ok to do that.

[Cali_Democrat]

110. Bernie is the one trying to nullify the majority of Democratic voters

Hillary is ahead of Bernie by 3 million votes. Much of her support coming from blacks and women.

Bernie wants the superdelegates to overturn the will of the people and support him at the Democratic convention.

[Number23]

201. Did Mr. Spock, I mean BROCK pay you to say that??!!!111

I mean, it's the 100% truth and all so you must have been paid to post it, according to some here!112

[Demsrule86]

154. If the supers

handed the nomination to Bernie that is exactly what they would be doing. But they won't do that anyway.

[HooptieWagon]

177. It must be today's poutrage over an imagined slight.

Such a drama queen.

[Autumn]

180. Yeah the team missed their favorite player but it's all good now

so expect it to go into overtime on the field now.

[Lil Missy]

3. Can you imagine the Poutrage if HRC set out to steal Bernie's delegates??

[bravenak]

4. OMG

The cries of oppression are already deafening. It would be pandemonium!

[insta8er]

11. You are so brave! and funny...more like anarchy though. See you in Philadelphia!

[bravenak]

14. I will be at home

Just moved and I'm settling in. Have fun not getting in!

[NCTraveler]

116. Hope you had a good move!!! Nt

[bravenak]

117. I did

I only moved the light boxes. Slowly so I could rest and not get tired.

[emulatorloo]

38. Be sure to bring some "Trump = Hillary" signs. Then everybody will take you very seriously.

<sarcasm>

The question is now: Which is WORSE for America - Hillary or Trump?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512029007

Try to make them original instig8tor creations, don't plagiarige this time.

[azurnoir]

23. you mean like in my state where Bernie won 62% to Clinton's 38%

yet 14 of 17 supers are going for Clinton I'd say that the ones that are elected officials are ignoring their constituents 2 did flip but they're also up for re-election this year, under the circumstances calling it stealing is a stretch

[Lil Missy]

35. The difference is - they were not Bernie's delegates to begin with. Bernie wants those that

have already voted/indicated their support for HRC. They are allowed to do that. And Hillary did not invent the current system.

As far as I'm concerned, Bernie isn't even a Democrat. He's trashing the DEMOCRATIC nominee, and wants to blow up the Party. I think his delegates should change over to Hillary now. And maybe the unpledged delegates that supported Bernie WILL decide to switch. That razor cuts both ways, ya know.

"Careful what you wish for ...."

[azurnoir]

98. so the peoples votes do not matter? I can see it with the supers that are not elected officials

but the ones that are could be a different story , especially when 2 of them only won after demanding wait for it-a vote recount

[Lil Missy]

104. I'm referring to the unpledged delegates. (that voted for HRC)

[JoePhilly]

181. Super delegates are not intended to be driven by the state proportional vote ...

... and they never were.

If those votes had to be distributed proportionally, there is no reason to have them at all. You'd just check the results, and then distribute the delegates.

Super Delegates are allowed to decide on their own terms.

Now, they've never flipped from the candidate that had the majority of pledged delegates, to some one else.

But I guess Bernie supporters can hope for that.

[joshcryer]

51. In 2008 there was serious outrage over Clinton staying in.

Even though she was less than 100 delegates from Obama for a large part of the time.

[KingFlorez]

10. If they weren't smart enough to vote for Sanders, their votes should not count

This is the logic that Sanders supporters have.

[bravenak]

12. I noticed that and it is astonishing

[SidDithers]

21. Banned troll WillyT actually once posted an article...

where the author seriously suggested that votes from Red states be cut by 40% if they hadn't gone Democratic in the previous election.

Yup, someone actually thought that counting Southern primary votes as 3/5 of real votes was a good idea. And WillyT brought it to DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511410480

Can you believe that shit?

Sid

[bravenak]

29. He seemed to love making those crazy ops huh?

So many recs on his nasty diatribes! Makes me sad to see it from 'liberals and progressives'.
Not sad to not see him here. As himself...

[Number23]

199. One of my three little hides was calling that man exactly what he was.

Actually, I was nice about it a jury still voted to hide. If I'd known I was going to get hidden anyway, I would have told him exactly how I felt.

[bravenak]

203. Ugh.

Glad to see the last of him. I swear he used to pm me links to his ops to lure me there so he could alert on me. I stopped falling for it after a few MONTHS. Shoulda had him on ignore from day one.

[MohRokTah]

55. The fact of the matter is, the delegate system already takes this sort of thing into accoount.

Red States get fewer delegates than had they been blue states with the same population.

Given size and how blue it is, you can see why California is such a delegate powerhouse when compared to Texas.

[joshcryer]

56. "voting strength of red states will be cut by 40%"

Holy fucking shit. Man that guy was a piece of work. And to think he has a following even still.

What the fuck.

Drafting and enforcing such a rule is simple. The voting strength of red states will be cut by 40% if the state produced no electoral votes in the previous election. The previous election provides the most relevant evidence whether any potential electors are resident there. This weighted voting strength would be reduced a further 15% per election where no electors show up, for a full generation back in time. Voting strength goes to zero if a state has contributed no Democratic electoral vote in the last 20 years – more than the lifetime of the youngest born-bankrupt Millenials. The missing person statute of limitations would thus run on any continuing pretense that prospectives electors are likely to show up in a rotten borough state, therefore must be represented at the next Convention. This describes the situation with every deep red state named above that Clinton won. The DNC should stop the pretense Clinton won anything by stripping voting rights from delegates representing these rotten boroughs.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/04/blue-state-bernie-and-the-dncs-plutocratic-victory-rules/

That's absolutely insane. And it was posted here. On DU. And got 31 recs. What a pathetic state we're in.

[okasha]

78. Wunnerful.

Keep the n*****s and the s***s and the q****s and the c***s from voting AT ALL COSTS! Who the fuck do those trash think they are?



(Just in case some alert-happy doofus needs it.)

[msanthrope]

59. Click the recs. nt

[Agschmid]

161. Wow I missed that the first time around.

[PragmaticLiberal]

217. What I find even more crazy is the fact that 31 posters actually agreed with him.

[AgingAmerican]

26. I think all anti-semitic voters votes should be nullified

Don't you?

[bravenak]

31. No voters should be nullified

Not even ones that approve of calling Obama 'Niggerized' and race around to defend any racist comments about blacks. So many glass houses. So many bricks..

You are now on ignore. Cause of the defending of those terms and hypocrisy. Bye.

[AgingAmerican]

37. Oh, wait....

You're the one who........

[KingFlorez]

48. That's right, blacks didn't support Sanders because he is Jewish

[AgingAmerican]

95. Actually, one specific one here on DU did

Hence the s'posed ignore...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Welcome back, sister.

[bravenak]

33. I really really missed you

[NCTraveler]

32. K&R

[bravenak]

43. Hey!

[NCTraveler]

47. .

[oldandhappy]

39. Maybe un-nullify the votes of voters suppressed.

Provisional ballots counted.

No worries. I know clinton will get the nomination and she will win. And the movement will live on.

[bravenak]

41. Show me some evidence that only Bernie voters were suppressed or it just seems like

sour grapes. She would have probably widened her lead by another half million if not for repubs running elections in their states.

[SusanCalvin]

42. Hellooooooo Brave!

[bravenak]

54. Missed you, gurl!!

[SusanCalvin]

58. Ditto!

[guillaumeb]

52. Apparently yours and other HRC votes.

Welcome back. Your voice is sometimes uncomfortable for some here, but it is absolutely needed.


This voter nullification meme is no better than GOP tactics to make it impossible to vote. It is just as anti-democratic, just as intolerant of difference.

Recommended.

[bravenak]

60. Thank you, G

[redstateblues]

191. Glad you're back! Just in time.

I had a little vacation too.

[bravenak]

193. Waiting for the day that we can all move forward and face the real enemy.

Trump.
Buncha folks on vacation these days. Sad thing.

[SFnomad]

53. Whose votes have to be nullified? 13+ million votes would have to be

It would also be the end of the Democratic Party.

[bravenak]

64. I agree. It would kill our chances for a decade imo

[workinclasszero]

61. Hey! You are back!!!

Yay!

[bravenak]

67. Heeey!!

[msanthrope]

62. Missed you....had my daughter threatened last week. nt

[bravenak]

66. I am so sorry to hear that

I know how upsetting and angerfying it can be to have your family harassed.
It feels like somebody is picking us off one by one. Scary.

[msanthrope]

72. They can't beat us. Or make us afraid. nt

[bravenak]

73. Damn straight

This is an adult tantrum going on

[msanthrope]

76. The petulance is amusing. nt

[bravenak]

77. You Aint never lied about that

I keep snorting when I laugh at some of the strange things I keep reading. My kids have tamtrums too, but they at least come correct.

[msanthrope]

129. Mine gets sent to her room to think it over. It generally doesn't take long. nt

[bravenak]

131. We need a huge room that we can put then into to help them calm down

[Gothmog]

63. At least three million votes now and more later

[bravenak]

68. Which is a terrible plan

I think you agree

[JaneyVee]

69. Love you. K&R.

[bravenak]

74. Missed you guys

[seabeyond]

70. Abso fuckin' lutely. To listen to these people tell us our vote is not valid. To degrade us,

the voter.

You betcha. I have been having real issue the last couple days. Between Sanders and supporters telling me, our vote should be dismissed and Sanders should be cornated.

[bravenak]

75. I guess we are not full humans

[seabeyond]

93. Per them, we're corpoatists. Bullshit. That would be progressive voters, of the Democratic party. nt

[seabeyond]

94. Honestly. I feel I am about 50% more progressive. What I am progressive in, doesnt interest them. Nt

[bravenak]

105. None of our stuff is important

We are just distractions from 'real issues'.

[seabeyond]

121. Absolutely. The important stuff. White, uppermiddle class men. They say middle, but it is really

about upper middle. I mean, has he gotten along with an outspoken woman, ever? That disagreed. He is too comfortable attacking women, and I see too little of attack of say, .... Republican men. The whole peer thing.

Chip on the shoulder about mommy, about old bitch teachers.

Says something.

[bravenak]

124. Says alot

He only chose one woman for that dnc committee...

[seabeyond]

96. So, I posted on another thread. You will appreciate. I had to calculate if my last hide hit 24 hour

lol. What a fuckin' trip.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Trash thread

[George II]

79. I think they should start with the voters of the following states:

Maryland
Virginia
North Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana
Arkansas
Texas

You could even toss out Missouri and Arizona, too.

Did I miss any?

[bravenak]

86. Toss out Alaska

It's the deep south

[katsy]

80. No ones votes would be considered nullified

if super delegates changed their votes to SBS.

The DNC is a private party with its own rules. SBS didn't make the rules.

http://origins.osu.edu/history-news/superdelegates-obstacle-road-democratic-elections

Can't do anything about the nutfuckery called primaries now but maybe they'll examine the process for the future.

[bravenak]

88. They would be nullified whether you 'consider' it so or not

[katsy]

109. Wha?

What I consider is neither here nor there. And this isn't a matter of opinion. The facts are clear. The DNC made the rules.

These are DNC rules & the history I linked to above are historically correct.

If super delegates change their votes to SBS the onus is on the DNC & DNC alone.

Why would anyone think otherwise? No amount of hand wringing or wailing will make it anyone else's fault.

[bettyellen]

81. And who is suspiciously silent about voter rights when thousands go off the rolls in Florida?

And feel cheated when their registration flipping antics bite them on the ass in bluer states?

[bravenak]

89. That would be the Bernie camp, ma'am

I have not seen them rise up over hijinks in Hillary states that affect her vote totals negatively. Not once.

[bettyellen]

91. They have some awfully selective integrity- today I was accused of calling West an "angry black

man" because I said he was angry at PBO once. And Gloria Steinem is a slut-shamer now, don't you know?
Getting hot in here!

[bravenak]

100. Nobody is safe these days

'New Progressives' have decided that we don't matter and neither do vote totals or life's work. Anybody who doesn't join them is a evil evil person.

[bettyellen]

137. I am tired of people pretending they care.....

and trying to gleefully twist shit into something ugly. We see you!

[bravenak]

145. Me too

Race around pretending to defend us, from ourselves making our own decisions.

[bettyellen]

147. And they have no idea why women and POC would feel such solidarity, it's a lesson they

refuse to learn.

[bravenak]

150. It's almost like they do it on purpose to have something to be mad about

[bettyellen]

153. Welp, being the target of internet rage- especially the rage expressed as memes- that's pretty

fucking familiar for me, LOL. Rings a lot of bells.

[bravenak]

155. I'm kinda tired of getting bro'd

Really. I wish they could give it up for a while.

[bettyellen]

160. In just two weeks, it'll be over. Weird thing happened, I just alerted on a post that accused

someone discussing demographics as "racist"... and the alert went straight to the Admins. WTF? Never saw that before. I alert on every bullshit name calling bit of nastiness I see here. Never saw that before.

[bravenak]

165. Maybe it is a part of the new system?

Could be sending folks who get repeated alerts straight to admins. Good idea, imo. Might need some mods too.

[mcar]

162. This!

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Sanders is not going to be the nominee, I can say that with pretty good certainty.

So probably everyone can relax on the vote nullification front.

The ONLY conceivable scenario where Hillary is not the nominee- I'm not saying this is likely, certainly not desirable- involves some sort of extensive legal indictment clusterfuck between here and November.

In which case my hunch is we would see Biden parachute in at the last minute. So if anyone's votes would be nullified, it will be the Hillary AND Sanders people in that scenario.

[bravenak]

90. I would pick Sherrod Brown over Biden

But his state wants him to stay in the Senate

[Warren DeMontague]

92. Yes, Harry Reid had something to say about pulling senators from states with (R) governors

that was for the veep slot, of course.

My thinking is, great- I can think of a lot of good Senators from states with very progressive governors.

but in terms of who is high enough in the party and connected enough to pinch hit at the last minute, my guess is it's Biden or no one.

Personally, I prefer Hillary to Biden. I respect the job he's done as VP but his track record on things like the drug war is anything but laudable.

[bravenak]

103. I agree with you on that

His drug war work is my reason for not being particularly interested in having him as the nom.

[MrWendel]

107. Welcome back "B"...

make sure you thank your haters too.

[bravenak]

112. I know right

The whole squad seems a bit antsy about my return. Ha!

[wildeyed]

118. It was wrong when Clinton floated the idea in 2008

and now Sanders is wrong to suggest it too. It must be a thing that happens to a politician's brains after a long primary. They lose them or something. Too much sleep deprivation, coffee, and road food, I guess

We are a democracy. We argue, campaign and then we vote. The one with the most votes wins. This is not hard to understand.

Welcome back Looks like your fan club missed you too!

[bravenak]

120. Yep. She was dead wrong then and he is dead wrong now

Even wronger since she actually had a point about the popular vote, but with the hijinks going on then her argument failed and she looked bad.

This talk of ignoring the vote totals and delegate totals is crazy.

My fan club is on ignore so I hope they can manage without my bright shining presence.

[wildeyed]

125. They are self-immolating left and right!

Just BURSTING into flames with no provocation at all Ignore is my friend too.

The popular vote will stand. They are bitching about the superD's, but the reality is, they cannot step in and take it from the popular vote winner without a massive uprising. And I would be mad as a hornet is Sanders won, and there was talk of shenanigans at the convention from our side. I truly believe in the will of the people, even when it is not my preference.

We are almost at the end of this long primary road, so I am hoping everyone, and everything will settle down soon. I am jazzed for the GE now. I am so mad about stuff going on in my state.... I plan to kick them in the ass so hard, my foot ends up in their neck!

[bravenak]

135. I cannot wait until we all get together and start fighting republicans again

[PeaceNikki]

122. Welcome back, my strong sister.

[bravenak]

127. Thank you

[TheKentuckian]

123. Not mine. The Turd Way has had plenty of run and been over represented for decades.

[MineralMan]

126. They know better, see...

So, if you don't agree with them, your vote shouldn't really count as much as theirs. That's what I've gathered from discussions here, anyhow. Puzzling is what it is...

[bravenak]

130. I stay confused

The reasons why change by the day.

[MineralMan]

133. It's called grasping at straws.

Or denial. People have voted. Delegates have been allocated. The numbers speak for themselves, but some have their fingers in their ears so as not to hear. It's a sad state of affairs, really. Some people are simply denying the facts, in hope that they will magically change somehow.

[bravenak]

134. I Kinda knew this would happen but..

Not on such an epic scale as it has. It really is astonishing and I think it might end up being written about in future cycles. I really have not seen such widespread illusions.

[bravenak]

132. I dont know?

Show me some evidence that all of the disenfranchised were Bernie voters and I'll look into it. As it stands, many of them, more than half assumably were Hillary voters so.... I hope we can fight republicans to make them count all of our votes!
The disenfranchised are usually mostly minorities and older voters, so more that half of those should be in our collumn, I want all of our votes counted. So many older blacks tried to vote for Hillary, their candidate and were turned away. I hope you at least care about that!

[Squinch]

138. Hey! Great to see you back here!

[bravenak]

140. Glad to see you too

And I'm ready to kick some Trump ass right about now too! Cannot wait till we all come together for THAT!

[Squinch]

141. The man is terrifying, and so are his supporters. They lurk among us, but I'm pretty sure they

aren't really human.

[bravenak]

143. Oh yes.

I have noticed our own little Trump fan club. Amazing to see they get play around here.

[Squinch]

158. OMG, could you believe that? Absolutely open pandering for Trump against Hillary! Amazing!

[bravenak]

159. I was kinda shocked to see it stay up

Cannot wait until trump humping is a bannable offense. I hate Trump humping. So gross and transparent.

[Squinch]

163. Can't understand why it isn't already. It's not a Hillary vs. BS issue. It's not like anyone who

is doing it is an actual Democrat or Liberal or sane person. It's like the admins have just given up and invited all the frat boys in and ASKED them to trash the furniture and throw up on the rug.

[bravenak]

170. And run everbody off so they can love on Trump

Really, I think it will be the right move to just call it the second she gets to 2383. I would have done it months ago, it was over. In March.

[Squinch]

172. It was never really close enough for him to have a real chance. Never.

[bravenak]

175. Nope! Only for five seconds after Iowa

Which he SHOULD have won...

[inchhigh]

139. I think the better question is

Whose votes are being nullified by giving the nomination to her now? North and South dakota dont count? Too many indigenous people there to count?

[bravenak]

142. Those delegates, even if All went to him

Are not enough to make up the deficit. He is behind in Cali and NJ, places with mor delegates and stands to lose those state by ten point margins. How can he make up the deficit at this point? He cannot.
Besides, I am not saying to not count those votes, just to not discount the votes of those if us who already voted, even if those votes come from us pesky black deep south confederate conservative stockhom syndrome voters.

[inchhigh]

204. I apologize

I didn't realize the polls were open and they had already started voting there. How many votes do they each have in those two places?

[bravenak]

206. I know my family in Cali sent out their ballots already

Voting sometimes starts early. They count the votes in the night of. Hillary will have her 2383 before cali.

[Ken Burch]

144. Nobody's votes are going to be nullified. n/t.

[bravenak]

146. I know that. Tell the ones thinking that it will happen. They need support.nt

[tarheelsunc]

148. Great question. Notice that none of the Berners have formulated a valid response. eom

[bravenak]

151. I expected that

It really is hard to come up with a valid reason. So they get mad.

[mcar]

149. My white southern woman vote, apparently

Cause we all know the south don't count. But red states elsewhere too, because Bernie Math!!11

[bravenak]

152. Those red states are not the 'confederacy'

Too many Southern Black Conservative Confederates where you live.

[mcar]

168. I guess so

[lostnfound]

156. You're right; democracy matters...so I'm resigning myself to

the inevitability of Donald trump. Because he made news today for raising money for vets and Hillary is tanking and Americans are so dumb.

[bravenak]

157. He won't win

[lostnfound]

169. I thought that, but today he got Sheldon Addison, plus the veteran donation PR

And for the first time I thought, you know, he just might pull it off.

[bravenak]

171. But he also has women and monorities hating him to death

We will turn out in force. Last election proved that you cannot just win with white men, need women and minorities to win the nation. We come out in high numbers, and stand in those long lines. We wont stand in them for Trump. We will for Hillary and ourselves.

[GulfCoast66]

190. There are also

Some southern, middle class white men that would walk over coals to vote against that SOB. But sadly too few. I am a fairly new member here and it was only a couple of years ago that I had my 'road to Damascus' moment and I joined the party of the people. But trust me, I am not the only one. The grace and courage that our President has shown over the last 8 years has changed hearts, including my sorry one.

And welcome back. I have been lurking for a couple of years before finally joining and have enjoyed reading your comments.

[bravenak]

192. Thank you

[99Forever]

164. Always the victim. ALWAYS.

[bravenak]

166. Of course they are playing the victim over Hillary winning

Expected no less.

[99Forever]

178. Ahhh... isn't that special?

The Peewee Herman gambit.

About the level of intelligence I expected.

[bravenak]

183. Umm. Sure. Whatevs.

[99Forever]

185. Could I get a translator here?

Sorry, I speak, write and read English. I thought that was the default language here.

[bravenak]

187. Rilly doe!

I'm finna check an cee if ainglish is r nationol langwage. Nope. S'not.

[bigtree]

167. because, revolution.

[bravenak]

174. Such a bland revolution

Missing the usual groups that fight for freedom in the Sanders rev-rev.

[forjusticethunders]

208. And that's the thing

There's no revolution here. Revolution without black and brown people in the driver's seat is a farce. Just like Seattle and OWS.

[bravenak]

210. Yep

[lovemydog]

173. That's a great question.

I've considered it too.

Now I'll read the rest of the thread. I'm sure there are some 'interesting' replies.

[bravenak]

176. Skip the bad replies

Might make you sick to look

[lovemydog]

188. I just read them all.

I don't have anyone on ignore but I enjoy speed reading.

There's some great replies too. Most understand your question is an excellent one, and can't be answered adequately without discounting those who voted for Clinton fair and square. I try and focus on the good replies. Keeps me relaxed.

Glad seeing you back bravenak. Love you & missed you.

[bravenak]

189. Love you and missed you too

[tandot]

179. We live in CA and all we wanted is a Democrat to win

We liked both of our candidates ... but once it got to the conspiracy level (e.g. Clinton rigged the system and is as bad as Trump) and Sanders pushing the narrative of Clinton being the lesser of two evils, he lost us. The Bernie thugs at the Nevada Convention and the excuses of Bernie supporters here on DU were horrendous. The whole family is voting for Clinton because we are not wasting our vote on someone who just joined the Democratic Party because otherwise he wouldn't have had a chance

[bravenak]

182. My family down there is doing the same

Even my Berner cousin has changed his mind and moved on. It was the gauntlet thingy they did protesting Hillary. That looked really really bad.

[forjusticethunders]

184. first off welcome back, second of all

I'm pretty convinced that a lot of white progressives are just flat out racists. Where else could the smugness, the sense of superiority, the condescension be coming from? What else produces the idea of Donald Trump as even somewhat of an acceptable alternative to Hillary?

I really get the feeling that being progressive/liberal or identifying as such is kind of a white (cis straight?) man's burden kind of thing where they derive moral satisfaction from "uplifting the benighted darkies", at least until we don't play along with their self-indulgent fantasies because we're real people with real opinions and real political insight, which causes them to rage because they don't get to play white savior.

Honestly my support for Hillary is critical and I don't like much of her political history or her overall hawkishness (though she had to do a lot of things I don't like to survive the conservative wave of 1980-2008 but at least she at least attempts to acknowledge that the thoughts, feelings and votes of people other than white emoprogs matter.

[bravenak]

186. +1

Thank you

[Gothmog]

194. Sanders will be telling many key demographic groups in Democratic base that their votes do not count

Sanders being the nominee will be telling many key demographic groups that their votes do not count because they are not white http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/24/bernie-sanders-is-crushing-donald-trump-head-to-head-and-it-doesn-t-mean-a-thing.html

But I don’t know a single person whose opinions I really value, and I include here Sanders supporters I know, who takes these polls seriously. There’s one simple reason Sanders polls better against Trump than Clinton does, which is that no one (yet) knows anything negative about him. He’s gotten the freest ride a top-tier presidential candidate has ever gotten. The freest, bar none....

Bah, you say. Bernie can handle all these things. Plus, he’s going to get all those white working-class votes that Clinton will never get. It’s true, he will get some of those. But every yin has a yang. How is Sanders going to do with black and Latino voters? They won’t vote for Trump, obviously, but surely some percentage will just stay home. This will matter in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, maybe Michigan—all states were a depressed turnout from unenthused voters of color might make the difference. The media find discussing this a lot less interesting than they do nattering on about the white working class, but it’s real, and Trump is smart enough to get out there and say, “Remember, black people, Bernie said your votes weren’t legitimate.”

Sanders has not been vetted and would be a horrible general election candidate

[bravenak]

195. Lots of disenfranchised voters will stay out and stay home if the convention nullified their votes

[Gothmog]

200. As a voter in the south, I would not be happy to see the votes of my state disregarded

In addition, no democrat can win without strong support from Latino and African American voters and so the concept that super delegates will disregard these voters is simply unrealistic

[bravenak]

205. It would be a slap in our faces

[forjusticethunders]

207. I disagree, stopping trump is too important so POC would come out

But the midterms? 2020 and beyond? Oh boooooooy.

[bravenak]

209. You're right

[HassleCat]

202. Should not and will not

The delegates selected by voting or caucuses will not be lost or gained by any candidate. This is not even an issue.

[Cha]

211. Good news is.. they aren't gonna be. Just a horrible fantasy.

Wonder whose brilliant idea that was.. to dismiss the Votes in the South? It went over like the proverbial lead balloon.

[bravenak]

212. So many folks had no idea they were confederates and conservative until his camp told us so

I guess Cali will be the deep south too once we win that. NJ too. DC too.

[Cha]

213. All us Hill Voters are Deep South!

Clinton cruises to big win over Sanders in South Carolina

Strong turnout among black voters helped propel Clinton to victory over rival Sen. Bernie Sanders.

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/02/27/clinton-cruises-to-big-win-over-sanders-in-south-carolina/

So Happy!

[Dawgs]

215. Wow. That image is incredibly ignorant.

You should be ashamed.

[Dawgs]

214. They shouldn't. But Hillary has ZERO chance of beating Trump.

Many of us are just trying to figure out how to prevent him from winning.

You have any good ideas?

[LexVegas]

216. Minorities of course. The "low information" voters with Stockholm Syndrome.