What the hell are you doing, Bernie?

[Demsrule86]

Unless Hillary Clinton is indicted (which remains unlikely), Bernie Sanders will not be the Democratic nominee. It’s a tiresome task, having to make this point over and over again. But it’s necessary. Sanders continues to campaign as though the race isn’t over, and that’s understandable. There are still votes left to be cast and he has every right to lobby for as many as possible.

His campaign has made it clear the goal at this point is to secure as many votes and delegates as possible before the convention. The more successful they are, the more leverage they’ll have. If Sanders is sincere about reshaping the party and influencing the platform, this makes perfect sense. So when he says things like, “When I’m elected president, we’re going to open the Democratic Party wide open,” as he did recently at a rally in California, that’s a candidate playing to the crowd. If you’re still asking for people’s votes, you have to feign optimism. “We can’t win the nomination but I want more leverage at the convention” lacks inspiration.

Excerpt
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/26/what_the_hell_are_you_doing_bernie_the_vermont_senator_inexplicably_agrees_to_debate_donald_trump/

[bkkyosemite]

1. The race is NOT over!

[brush]

3. Oh it's over. Can't you hear the fat lady clearing her throat?

[NWCorona]

11. And she's warming up for Hillary

[brush]

39. Nah! Hillary will beat the pants off Trump. So would Bernie, but he can't beat her.

It is what it is.

[NWCorona]

42. We will find out soon enough.

[workinclasszero]

65. Its been over since the NY primary at least

[Trust Buster]

2. He's in it for himself. Too selfish to consider the greater good. He's similar to Cruz that way.

[polly7]

7. No.

He's in it for all those millions who've already voted for him, worked so hard to get the message of THEIR movement out and to give millions more a chance to decide who they want to support. I think that's called democracy.

[Trust Buster]

8. No he isn't. It's all about his ego. He's 74 and enjoying his 15 minutes. That's all.

[polly7]

16. Oh, bullshit.

He wouldn't even have run if anyone else who he thought would fight for all those who need real change had stepped up. A 74 y/o man who's fought all his life for those things doesn't do this 'suddenly for ego'. That's just pathetic thinking. I've seen all the videos of him fighting in the senate. He's believed in all those issues from day one as a politician, which is why he's so trusted. Young people have researched him thoroughly. Middle-aged and older people know exactly what he stands for. Ego is one thing Sanders isn't even capable of.

[Demsrule86]

18. How much change are the folks he is fighting for going to get

If Bernie helps elect Trump and that is all he is doing now. The GOP packs the court...put a fork in the progressive movement...it is done...he would be the anti-Roosevelt.

[polly7]

20. How the fuck is Bernie helping elect Trump?

He's working FOR all those millions who want change. He doesn't have to abandon them because of scare tactics, though I can see how his campaign on actual issues might make another candidate look bad - but that's certainly not HIS fault.

[Demsrule86]

29. Any debate with Trump will help Trump and Trump alone

Also, every time he criticizes Clinton he helps Trump...she is the nominee. I think Bernie has behaved badly.

[polly7]

33. No, Sanders will destroy Trump.

How is revealing what a disgusting man and useless politician he will be a bad thing? I doubt very much he'll criticize Clinton in a debate with trump. Are you forgetting he protected her with his 'forget the damn emails' comment?

Bernie hasn't behaved badly. He's been treated like shit from the start .......... maybe he should have 'behaved a bit more badly' - it might have helped him.

[Demsrule86]

36. He won't ...Trump cares nothing for Sanders

He will use it to beat up on the nominee Clinton and the party...bad bad thing for Bernie to do...but he has nothing to lose...doesn't care about anyone but himself.

[AzDar]

66. The only people helping to elect Trump are those who support the candidate who CAN'T BEAT HIM.

[Glamrock]

17. In today's age

with information technology being the wonder that it is that is a remarkably ignorant statement. There are hours and hours and countless hours of video of the Senator fighting the good fight. There is a very long voting record that backs it up. There is also years of audio from the Thom Hartman show in which Bernie took calls from the audience. Do some research man! Christ! His ego. Give me a break.

[Demsrule86]

19. Bernie has changed

He now is angry and spiteful. He will hurt our chances and this election that mean for the next 30 years.

[polly7]

27. More bullshit. nt.

[Demsrule86]

31. It is the absolute truth

We have five justices over 80 and one waiting now...figure it out...Bernie is risking the entire progressive movement for his own selfish reasons...he lost but he still tears her down...he helps no one but Trump and of course himself.

[Glamrock]

35. If pointing out a voting record

and which powerful industries are donating to her campaign is tearing her down, then I'm the flying spaghetti monster.

[Demsrule86]

43. Exactly

like it or not...we have United in large part thanks to the first spoiler...Nader...people need money to run...and Hillary has never been in anyone's pocket...but Bernie by lies and innuendo made it seem true...and it is particularly bad now when he can't win...as for debating Trump...he just shows how he cares nothing or for anyone but Bernie...he helps Trump everyday now anyway...and now the bromance brothers can help each other.

[Glamrock]

48. Good Christ!

You actually agree that pointing out her voting record and contributors is tearing her down? If pointing out things in the public record are hurting her chances, it's not Bernie that's the problem. Christ, open your eyes man.

[Demsrule86]

51. The way he does it yes

He criticizes it...her voting record is actually better than his save for the Iraq war which Kerry voted for too...by criticizing her helps Trump...he can not win and is now on Trumps team.

[Glamrock]

53. We'll have to just agree to disagree

You'll never convince me discussing someones public record could damage someone. It's the public record that's damaging. Period.

[TimPlo]

56. See you need to step back and look at type of person

you are arguing with. They seem to place party over values. That type person has a "team bias" they have issues that cause them to want to be the winning side no matter what. The same thing happens on GOP side. They have a large number of people that will defend a party member no matter what. Claiming Clinton never took any money from large donors is about as blind a bias as they can get.

[Glamrock]

62. I know man, I know

Tis why I don't post that much. Pointless sometimes. But I'm driving from S. Dakota to Indiana and I'm bored. Plus, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around that idea. I mean, we're supposedly liberals here right? We're supposed to be the logical ones. I mean, surely a fellow liberal should see said logic in my argument right? Not so much this campaign season. But tanks fer d advice bradda. Peace on ya!

[Glamrock]

54. And

Just curious, was Hillary on McCaine's team back in 08? Because she was certainly not going after Obama's public record. Surely you rember how nasty that campaign season was...."I'm not sure if he's a Muslim"

[TheFarseer]

61. Bernie has had to pull his punches so much

Just because dem on dem violence is frowned upon. Trump won't pull any punches. Expect corruption charges with specifics to be front and center in his campaign and its going to be ugly. Of course there is plenty to attack Trump about but man this is going to be the ugliest campaign ever.

[dchill]

9. That is just SO much projection.

You've just described Hillary to a "T".

[Trust Buster]

14. No she won. She's not playing with FOX and Trump. He's always been in it for himself.

[muntrv]

4. Hillary didn't quit until June, during the 2008 campaign.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

30. Hillary wasn't 766 delegates behind in June 2008

Compare the Politico Delegate Tracker, at
http://politico.com/2016-election/results/delegate-count-tracker

[FSogol]

44. Sanders vs Trump will never happen. Trump is punking Sanders and Sanders fell for it.

You'll kick the football next time Charlie Brown.

[Demsrule86]

47. I doubt it.

The supers will never overturn the delegate count. All that happens is Bernie further hurts our GE chances...which he is doing every day he stays in and attacks our nominee.

[hellofromreddit]

5. Bernie was advocating inter-party debates months ago

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Letter-to-DNC.pdf

That is why I believe we should be open to a less traditional form of debating by welcoming the opportunity to debate not only amongst members of the Democratic Party but also having debates between Democratic and Republican candidates during the primary process. I believe that these inter-party debates would put in dramatic focus the shallow and at times ridiculous policies and proposals being advocated by the Republican candidates and by their party’s platform.

There ya go. That's what the hell he's doing.

[Demsrule86]

22. Yeah and it is bull shit

It hurts Dems and helps Trump...shame on Sanders..showing his true character or lack thereof.

[hellofromreddit]

26. How does it hurt Democrats?

[Demsrule86]

32. It gives Trump the chance to beat up on Clinton who will be the nominee

And what will Sanders do? He will agree with him most likely and that hurts Democrats...and helps Trump...Bernie is the worst person in the world. When I think of all the people Bernie will harm if he throws the election to Trump, I feel sick.

[hellofromreddit]

37. Trump beats up on Clinton anyway and the media repeat it for free anyway

So that's not specific to this debate.

What makes you think Bernie will agree? Bernie has been extremely critical of Hillary's policy positions, and he's been pretty critical of her campaign, but he has never gotten personal. Trump's attacks on Clinton are all personal so far, so what is it that makes you think Bernie will suddenly decide to echo them?

[Demsrule86]

46. And Bernie will stand there and agree with him

That hurts our nominee...and you know it. Bad...idea shows who Bernie is.

[hellofromreddit]

49. You're not doing much to support your assertions. Ellipses don't help either.

We do not have a nominee yet.

[Demsrule86]

50. We do have a nominee

Hillary has an insurmountable delegate count. That is how we choose our nominee...not by polls ...the only way Sanders could win is to overturn the vote...and there would be hell to pay...the supers won't do it. Now, I say Bernie beats up on Hillary with Trump or why do it? Jeffie says...they agree with Trumps criticisms of Hillary. Bernie has done no good in this campaign...not even a little bit. We had a pretty easy election coming up...it favored the Dems...now Bernie has destroyed that by attacking our nominee and our party. I sincerely hope we don't lose the progressive movement for a generation thanks to Bernie...we lose the courts and it is over. Any debate only helps Trump...hasn't Bernie helped Trump enough?

[hellofromreddit]

55. You're arguing that we have a candidate that's highly likely to be the nominee.

I'll agree with that. But the primary is not over and Hillary does not actually have an insurmountable lead. Getting beyond 2383 pledged delegates is the moment where the lead actually becomes insurmountable, and she has not reached it.

[Broward]

41. Worse even than the architects of a bullshit war and those that voted for it for political reasons?

[Demsrule86]

45. Yeah well we don't debate anyone but the nominee...

because it is a stupid thing to do.

[Matt_in_STL]

6. I love all the sad sack deflection threads today. I only wish I could bottle the tears.

The spin on the email revelations and the lies that have been told isn't working, so now it's time to hammer Bernie for debating Trump, which he is only doing because Hillary lied and backed out of holding a promised debate. Which, is great, because it just points out again how much Hillary lies. Even the deflection needs a deflection.

[vintx]

12. lol yep

Just another consequence of yet another bad decision by Clinton II

[QC]

23. Nothing refreshes quite like a Hillbully Tears Martini! Would you like one?

[Matt_in_STL]

25. I think I would. I'll be sure to drink it slowly and savor every drop of sadness and naivety.

[Cobalt Violet]

10. so she can move to the general but he can't?

He has every right to keep running and debate anyone he wants. It will be good for the party. At least someone in the Dem party has courage.

[Demsrule86]

21. It will not be good for the party

of which clearly Bernie does not belong to or give a damn about...it will be good for Trump and Trump alone.

[Demsrule86]

34. He lost

He is not in the general.

[Cobalt Violet]

40. The primary isn't over. He hasn't lost. She hasn't won.

Glad I don't live in your alternate reality.

[AgingAmerican]

13. Democracy scares the bejesus out of Hillary supporters

[LexVegas]

15. He's losing sorely. nt

[Samantha]

67. He is 271 pledged delegates behind Hillary Clinton

She has been up 300 plus a couple of times. Once after a winning streak, he brought the lead down to 197. She did manage to get the lead back up somewhat, but she has not gotten back to her previous high of 300 plus.

She needs 612 more pledged delegates to hit the magic number and become the nominee before the convention. Among the remaining states to vote are a total of 781 available delegates. These numbers were supplied by Steve Kornacki on MSNBC a couple of days ago. I watched his presentation and noted his numbers.

Superdelegates are not included since they do not vote until the convention.

Sam

[bigwillq]

24. Bernie won't be nominee, but so many still talking about him.

It's probably best to build up Hillary and criticize Donald Dump, but go ahead and keep talking about Bernie!

[mmonk]

28. An attempt at change doesn't have to impress a party of money changers.

[jpmonk91]

52. I agree dad

They live in a bubble. They are to obsessed with HRC to be able to see her flaws

[Armstead]

57. Campaigning /nt

[Mike__M]

59. WTF? Why you making sense

in a thread like this!

[randome]

58. I don't think he's accustomed to being aggressive, campaign or otherwise.

So he does it awkwardly.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[grossproffit]

64. Really? Aggression seems to come naturally to him.

[TheFarseer]

60. Your first paragraph has the answer

So why ask the question? She could be indicted. Lots of people are going to be pissed if they donated and went to the rally and he suddenly quits when mathematically it is possible for him to overtake her in elected delegates. Why should he drop out just to make Chris Matthews happy? Fuck Chris Matthews.