Bernie Sanders is Switching Teams

[kstewart33]

That's the headline of a post by Kevin Drum over at Mother Jones. Here's his post:

Donald Trump says he'd be delighted to debate Bernie Sanders:

Game on. I look forward to debating Donald Trump in California before the June 7 primary.

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) May 26, 2016

This is just sad. Trump is the master of modern publicity, and he knows perfectly well that a debate like this would (a) help Trump and (b) hurt Hillary. That's it. That's all it would do. And Bernie is all in.

Is Bernie really so aggrieved by losing the Democratic nomination that he's now willing to explicitly campaign on Donald Trump's behalf? Because that's all this is. What happened to the old Bernie Sanders?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum

[LexVegas]

1. Bernie is the poster child for sore losers. nt

[tonyt53]

26. Sad, ain't it

[Baobab]

77. actually, its these kinds of posts that are 'sad'

are others as sick of them as I am?

God forbid that ISSUES would be discussed. That's the real fear, it seems.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

113. Hillary is too scared to debate

she refused to participate in an already scheduled debate.

[MillennialDem]

64. Hillary voters will be come November

[LexVegas]

68. ...

[DrDan]

89. unfortunately, I have to agree . . . losing all respect for him

[The Wielding Truth]

104. He's not giving up, because we need real change. It's about this country not the man.

[DrDan]

125. yes, we need some changes - but he is not the one to bring them about

It can't be one with amendments - we need a leader . . . and Bernie is not a leader. If he was, he would have more than one endorsement from his fellow senators.

[The Wielding Truth]

145. Really, and how many have to plead for money from the wealthy to survive.What Bernie is doing takes

supreme courage and commitment to principle. He is representing you and me. He is not a flashy panderer or a power mogul. If that is what you think we need again, there will be no change.

[chwaliszewski]

126. ^^^ This ^^^

[Maru Kitteh]

148. + a gazillion

[scscholar]

2. He has certainly always been good at berning bridges (ntxt)

[Trust Buster]

3. Sanders is desperate. Time is running out for him.

[cali]

4. Kevin Drum is the second most pro Hillary a time Bernie journalist on the left

[hedda_foil]

34. California, your reply got garbled. Autocorrect striking again?

[kstewart33]

57. Cali, I don't think so.

He's taken a swing at Hillary a few times. He seems rather balanced to me.

[Vinca]

5. Absolutely ridiculous and insulting to boot.

Bernie would probably be able to show the world what a psycho Trump is and embarrass the hell out of him. Hillary is free to debate, too. In fact, she should volunteer.

[L.A.C.]

35. Exactly! How does calling Trump out in front of a national audience help Trump anyway?

Should Hillary not debate Trump before the GE because it will only help him? The only thing Bernie would be trying to do is to make people more aware of his own stance on things and how that differs from Trump. Bernie would also be trying to show that he could take Trump on in a GE. The only thing that might hurt Hillary is her fear to debate Bernie before the June 7th elections in opposition to Bernie's willingness to debate Trump before them. Not that any of this even matters, because Trump is clearly scared to debate Bernie, claiming that he was 'just joking'.

[drray23]

136. trump would run circles around him

Bernie has shown time and time again that he is unable to depart from his usual talking points. He is not a very good debater On top of it he does not take criticism very well. Trump would put him on tilt within the first 5 minutes and the debate would descend into chaos. At the end of the day it would be a net positive for Trump not Bernie.

[Jester Messiah]

138. She'd just back out again.

If she told me the sky was blue I'd find a window just to check.

[lagomorph777]

6. I thought you were going to say he's gay.

No, Trump will be reduced to an orange stain in the debate. Bernie wants to squash Trump just as much as you do.

[bunnies]

7. Its like the idea of this debate has knocked some peoples brains clear out of their head.

How could anyone be so delusional as to think such a thing. Its getting pathetic.

[Renew Deal]

8. Delete this for the love of all things holy!

Arggghhhh

At least that's what people said to me.

[Jack Bone]

9. what happened to Mother Jones?

the REAL Mother Jones is prob'ly rollin' in her grave.

[Beowulf]

25. No doubt.

[QC]

41. Kevin Drum is a weird exception there, second only to David Brock

when it comes to hillarylove, but yeah, MoJo has been moving mainstream for a while.

(When Michael Moore was very briefly their editor, he wanted to do articles on things like unemployed workers, but the publisher instead pushed him to do investigative reporting on herbal teas, and that was back in the 80s.)

I started reading MoJo over 20 years ago and never imagined it would ever be like this. And yes, I also wonder what the real Mary Harris Jones would think about the magazine that bears her name.

[Bill USA]

65. as I have said before, it's hard to tell the BSers from the RWers. both declare those who disagree

with them as heretics and by definition, fiendishly immoral, driven only by nefarious motives.

just like the rabid Right...

The NeoCons preach morality but practice politics of personal destruction, viciously attacking and libeling anyone who disagrees with them rather than addressing their policy positions.

[font size="+1"]... Rabid Rightwinger or Bernie Groupie ..... more alike than they are different.[/font]

[Blanks]

102. In a lot of instances...

They are one and the same. Republicans pretending to be Bernie supporters since it gives them the opportunity to trash not only Hillary, but all democrats.

[Bill USA]

152. given that about 96% of the "pro-Bernie" posts are McCarthyist attacks of Hillary, one wonders just

what percentage of Bernie fan posts are actually from Repugnants "for"Bernie?

[ljm2002]

115. Oops, I should have read the whole thread...

...before making my post where I said the same thing!

Oh well. Great minds...

[riversedge]

10. Bernie's life long dream is deferred. His ego has taken control of his mind.

[Beowulf]

31. I seriously doubt this is Bernie's lifelong dream.

If it was he surely would have run several times by now.

[riversedge]

70. I do think the 'Revolution" is his life long dream.

[Beowulf]

83. Oh, I agree with that

and that dream will live on regardless of what happens in 2016.

[larkrake]

132. yes, or the country remains in the toilet

[Demsrule86]

100. I don't care about Bernie Sanders

I hope never to set eyes on him again after this primary...I sincerely hope we can fix the damage this person has caused and win the general. Bernie Sanders the anti-Roosevelt...he undoes all the good Roosevelt did in order to feed his supersized ego.

[Beowulf]

110. A clueless post

Bill is the one who signed the bill eliminating Aid to Families with Dependent Children, a New Deal program. Hillary has already said she's open to compromise on Social Security. The DLC, which Bill and Hillary were part of from the beginning, came into being for the expressed purpose of undoing the New Deal, to divorce the Democratic Party from the New Deal. Hence the term "New Democrats."

Eight years ago Hillary was campaigning to the bitter end, explaining that Obama couldn't get enough white working class votes to win and that Obama could get assassinated. So spare me the talk about Bernie's ego. Next time do some research and spare yourself the embarrassment of another post based on fantasy.

[chwaliszewski]

127. Boom!

[Bill USA]

67. I have asked before whether Bernie will give us a Nader moment. HE doesn't have to explicitly run

as an independent to sabotage the Democratic Party. He's gotten a big boost by pretending to be a Democrat, but he still reserves the option to go his own way anytime he wants. No matter what the cost to the country. --- i.e. a Nader moment.

[chwaliszewski]

129. OMFG!

If anyone has pretended to be a Democrat, it's Hillary. Bernie actually cares about people. If this gets flagged for a jury then I know our country is doomed. Bernie wants to help. Hillary wants to be president. That's all there is to it.

[Bill USA]

146. yeah, Hillary is the anti-Christ.... the Repugnants told me!

[imagine2015]

11. If Bernie refuses to debate Trump, the Hillaryites will say he's afraid to debate Trump!

And that Hillary, unlike Bernie, is the tough, strong candidate who is ready and able to take on Trump in a debate anytime and anywhere.

And that Bernie is just plain chicken and can't take on Trump like the powerful Hillary Clinton.

And if Bernie agrees to accept Trump's challenge to a debate the Hillaryites will display fake outrage and claim that like Trump, Bernie is also a sexist who wants to keep Hillary out of debates!!!! It's for men only!

Those will be her campaign's talking points on the Trump/Bernie debate issue.

Cheap shots, but what do you expect from her?

Oh poor, poor Hillary. She just doesn't get any respect and voters don't trust her .... simply because she's a woman. That damn bigot Bernie and his rooming band of racist, sexist, hippie, communist thugs who are terrorizing Clinton supporters.

Of course, Hillary's surrogates and apologists hope the everyone forgets that it was Hillary who backed out of her commitment to debate Bernie in California.

[yodermon]

12. Still don't understand how debating somebody is "explicitly campaigning on their behalf".

And one that Bernie has called a "pathological liar".
I mean, what? Bernie will spend the entire time bashing Trump to his fucking face.
It's crazy.

[Eric J in MN]

20. Clinton supporters should be pleased at the idea

...of the 20% or whatever of Sanders supporters who are undecided about the general election watching Sanders criticize Trump to his face.

[geek tragedy]

24. Trump would bring up every bad thing Bernie has said about Clinton, and he'd talk about how Bernie

was the rightful winner.

"My friend Bernie here said that Crooked Hillary wasn't qualified to be president. I agree with Bernie, she is not qualified. And I think Bernie is obviously more qualified than her, and that the Democratic primary systems is rigged, I mean it's terrible. Crooked Hillary couldn't have beaten Bernie fairly, so she had her nasty goons rig the primary in her favor. It's a terrible shame what they did to Bernie. Just terrible."

And Bernie would shrug his shoulders.

[timmymoff]

39. Now c'mon. Hillary is the best thing since sliced bread and

has been thoroughly vetted. Their is no scandal, fake or brought on herself, that could harm her. Her experience is so vast and her policies so true and forthright that nobody, no thing, and certainly no debate of mere mortals, that could harm her. She is invincible and it's math, and she tough and all. What a group of whiners and ostriches.

[larkrake]

133. Bernie wont bait

[passiveporcupine]

150. How did I miss this yellow button?

Buh Bye

plonk

[Demsrule86]

98. This helps trump and hurts Hillary...the nominee

This is what surrogates do...so I guess he is now a Trump surrogate...after all, agrees with Trumps attacks on her...his campaign manager said so.

[PufPuf23]

14. What an idiotic claim.

Anyone that truly believes Sanders would support Trump over Clinton is not paying attention or has some sort of cognitive impairment.

More likely the idea is placed in public discourse to deliberately confuse the majority of Americans that have neither the time nor inclination to pay attention with the dedication of the average DUer.

Hard to believe that the Clinton campaign could be so tone deaf to encourage or echo that Sanders supports Trump over Clinton.

[NV Whino]

15. Had Hillary not reneged on her agreement this would not even be happening.

I thought Camp Weathervane was all for uniting and pulling together. You should be rejoicing that somebody will be wiping the floor with Donald.

[Eric J in MN]

16. Kevin Drum wouldn't claim

...that Elizabeth Warren's Twitter debates with Trump put her on Trump's side.

But Kevin Drum is so full of hatred for Bernie Sanders and his supporters that he spins the idea of a Trump-Sanders TV debate as putting Sanders on Trump's side.

[Hortensis]

19. Drum doesn't hate them, but I would

like more on why it would just hurt Hillary. I wonder if Drum is assuming Sanders would use the debate to continue his anti-Democratic rhetoric, and that would be a problem. For Sanders, too, tho; I have a hard time imagining that he and Trump heave-hoing the Democratic Party under the bus on Fox would benefit him, and he must know that at best it would be a narrow wire to walk.

But otherwise, I think the kind of people who might vote for Democrats would inevitably be more impressed with Bernie's commitment to his vision of economic change than with that silly orange gas bag.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Kevin used to be local to me, he wrote in favor of the Iraq War and touted Bush policy

until the bombs started falling, then he joined Sullivan and others in switching sides. Drum like Sullivan was not only cheer leading for the way, he was very critical of anyone who opposed that invasion, including Bernie Sanders.
So it is ironic, Drum speaking of changing sides. That describes his own history rather well. The Iraq stuff also explains why he is so opposed to Bernie, who like many of us knew that war was immoral and stupid. Drum does not like people who have been publicly correct when he was still cheering for Bush War.

Not a big fan. He lacks discernment and like Sullivan, gained no humility or introspection from his experience as a proponent of elective wars.

[bvar22]

61. You said:

[font color=red]"Sanders would use the debate to continue his anti-Democratic rhetoric..."[/font]

I have watched every debate, and followed this primary election closely. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Would you please elaborate on what you call Sanders' "anti-Democratic rhetoric".

Please be specific and include quotes of "anti-Democratic rhetoric",
or I will be forced to call BULLSHIT.

[Hortensis]

63. I said "if Drum was assuming," and you bald-faced lied

about what I said. That is inexcusable. Neither of us is running for president and this kind of shabby behavior gains nothing except perhaps personal satisfaction in silly imaginings of points scored.

Don't bother to answer. You're about to take your place on my "ignore" list with all the others who think democracy is all about attacking "the other teams."

[bvar22]

74. You said:

Last edited Fri May 27, 2016, 12:30 PM - Edit history (1)

[font color=red] I wonder if Trump is assuming Sanders would use the debate to continue his anti-Democratic rhetoric,[/font]

The clause "I wonder if Trump is assuming" doesn't change the meaning of the next clause which is the one that I objected to, "Sanders would use the debate to continue his anti-Democratic rhetoric." That is a clear statement about Bernie with no qualifiers.

The VERY BEST you can say at this point is:
"Yes. I was unclear. I didn't mean to state or even imply that Sanders uses Anti-Democratic rhetoric,
and I understand how one could read it the way you did."

This confusing construction of that sentence on your part is NOT grounds for accusing me of being a "Bald Faced Liar".

We can clear this up right now if you wish.
Do YOU believe Sanders has ever used "Anti-Democratic rhetoric" ?
This is a fair question.

[SwampG8r]

86. Crickets

[bvar22]

144. Naturally.

*

[yurbud]

17. We should save time and just make thread of Hillary campaign talking points, number them, and...

her supporters could just post the numbers.

This is probably the top one for a while: "If Bernie does _______________ it only helps Trump!"

For example, "If Bernie combs his hair and cleans his glasses, it only helps Trump!"

[Carni]

44. Definitely.

I get the same crap in emails from Hillary surrogates daily... VERBATIM talking points to what I see parroted here.

Maybe she should join in the debate with Bernie and Trump?

Oh wait, I forgot, she doesn't want to debate Sanders.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. What a pant load, an intelllectually dishonest diaper full.

This OP is deserving only of vulgar responses, references to steaming piles and that sort of thing.

[Howler]

21. I am so glad

That I let my subscription to mother Jones lapse a couple years ago. Tsk tsk.

[NCTraveler]

23. I honestly don't think it would go down like that.

Sanders would savage Trump. While Sanders is currently at the mercy of the bottom feeder Weaver, Trump is flat out Sanders enemy, and Sanders would rake Trump over the coals.

Unfortunately, Trump is just trolling them and they don't realize it.

[bkkyosemite]

27. It it happens Sanders is very smart in doing it.

[Seeinghope]

111. I agree.i am not sure why he is doing it but I have a few ideas.

Bernie Sanders has been screwed out of media time in a big way. Hillary Clinton along with DWS have controlled the debates (scheduled them on days when they would have the smallest audience) using this DNC to fully support Hillary Clinton and discourage Bernie Sanders. The Primaries, in general, were run like shit.........
Hillary Clinton and many of the Democrat minions as well as the media and DWS are leaning even more heavily on Bernie Sanders by ignoring him, blatantly saying that he needs to drop out.

So what does Bernie Sanders do? He challenges the star presumptive Republican Candidate to a debate. He will get a lot of media coverage for this. Donald will get record views. This event should be a huge event. This also takes the spotlight off of Hillary Clinton for a couple of days or so..possibly.

Bernie Sanders is winning big. He has DWS on the fence fighting for her job now and her seat pretty soon. He has thrown his support and money behind her competitor. He has gained a voice at the Democratic Convention by getting more representation.. He will get at least a few concessions. He has shown other candidates how you can run a successful campaign without having to sell your soul. He raised enormous support in a short amount of time and out raised Hillary Clinton during many months of this Primary. All of this folks and more are what a revolution looks like. The start of a real life revolution..

[MFM008]

28. JUNE 14

[CrowCityDem]

29. Two hours of both attacking Hillary. Yeah, that's going to help in November.

[Beowulf]

33. I rather doubt Bernie will attack Hillary in that forum.

But he will really go after Trump.

[L.A.C.]

40. Agreed. How would ganging up on Hillary benefit Sanders?

If anything it would make him look like a weak candidate for taking Trump on in a GE.

[CrowCityDem]

48. Would he defend her when Trump spews out lies? I seriously have doubts about that.

[Fawke Em]

54. But what Camp Weathervane considers lies and what really isn't are two different things.

[CrowCityDem]

55. So you're saying Bernie will let Trump attack her with no pushback. Yeah, really helpful there.

[sturnz0r]

94. A simple, passive agressive,

"Well, I don't think your supporters really believe that, but..." would do, but that's not really Bern's style.

[Beowulf]

85. If Trump lies about her

it wouldn't surprise me if he defended her. If Trump criticizes her on something that is factually true, that would be different. Bernie will try to make the debate entirely about Trump.

[larkrake]

134. he will stay on positions no matter the question

[mac56]

37. Feeling threatened, are we?

[timmymoff]

43. Poor hillary always the victim

the most vetted as we've been told, the most experienced, as we've been told, can not take the heat from a 74 year old socialist or one of her former campaign donors... Hope she can handle Putin, hell even Palin for that matter.

[jillan]

46. It's not even about Hillary. This would be a debate between 2 outsiders in what is best for the

working class people.

Hillary's name might come up but its not about her.

[Demsrule86]

108. I shows what a terrible person

Bernie has become or perhaps always been...he was never well liked after all...he risks the general and will help Trump attack Hillary...Bernie is on Trump's team.

[jillan]

109. Omg. Bernie is a terrible person now? Seriously?

This man has been fighting for progressive causes his whole life. If that is terrible to you, I am speechless.

[oberliner]

117. Everything you have written here is wrong

It will definitely be all about Hillary. That is the entire reason why Trump would even do this.

Trump is also not an outsider and couldn't care less about working class people.

[jillan]

120. Trump would do this because he thinks he can win over Bernie supporters and vice versa.

It has nothing to do with Hillary.

[oberliner]

130. He wins over Bernie supporters by talking about Hillary

Pretty much the only thing many of them have in common is disdain for Hillary.

[Demsrule86]

99. I can not believe a person

who cared anything about the progressive movement would do this. Bernie should truly be ashamed for helping Trump.

[JackRiddler]

30. Oh, thanks. I'd forgotten to put you on ignore.

[kstewart33]

59. Jack, please keep up.

See my thread earlier today, where as a Hillary supporter, I thought Bernie debating Trump was a good idea.

What's wrong with my posting a view that disagrees with me?

[JackRiddler]

122. Ah, I forgot again.

This OP is simplistic nonsense.

Sanders is gambling, he absolutely is. But odds are he will destroy Trump in a debate.

Clinton can still avoid this by keeping her promise (months ago) to have a California debate.

[kstewart33]

149. Bernie might win that debate.

But Trump knows that Bernie has a thin skin and is known for having an itchy temper. Trump will do all he can to trigger that temper.

Bernie is going hard for this debate. But I wonder if Trump will back away from it. The best that Trump can do is win the debate against the man who will not be in the GE.

I think he'd like to do it if he can get Bernie to sling hash at Clinton. But that's not a given. And Trump could end up looking like an idiot.

So who knows? Regardless, it would be great political theatre.

[Shadowflash]

32. I think it's a great idea.

Considering Hillary was so chicken to debate Sanders that she broke her promise to do so.

He'll put Trump in his place.

[jillan]

47. Yep. She brought this on herself

[leftinportland]

36. This is the dumbest comment

about this subject I've heard...but Drum also believes Hillary is honest to a fault when discussing policy...enough said

[mindwalker_i]

38. ...

/revision/latest?cb=20150206140125

Mmmmm, the crack is strong with this one.

[MyNameGoesHere]

42. He has switched parties before for convenience

I said this before mother Jones

[timmymoff]

45. Hillary switched teams 25 years ago

when they convinced democrats running on a republican platform was a great idea.

[RoccoR5955]

49. This actually helps the Democratic Party candidate whoever it is.

Because it will show the public that Drumpf has about as much a handle on the issues as a mass of bovine fecal matter, and Bernie and the Democratic candidates have better handle on the issues of the time.

I want to see this debate.

This is another hit piece by a rag that has endorsed Hilliary.

[Actor]

50. Opposite is true, of course. Bernie wouldnt mention or hurt Hillary and would tear that

asshole, narcissist sociopath, Drumpf, apart at the seams.

[cloudythescribbler]

51. By reneging on her promise of a CA debate w/Bernie, Hillary created the current mess nt

[Fawke Em]

52. Kevin Drum needs to get out of someone's posterior.

He's beginning to reek.

[liberalnarb]

53. The most preposterous thing I've read this whole eleciton cycle.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280202436

What a disgusting attempt at a hit piece.

[hobbit709]

56. you might want to put on some clean clothes after this pile of fecal matter.

[valerief]

58. I would LOVE to see Fox viewers exposed to Bernie!!!! nt

[Mnpaul]

82. Here you go

Interesting comment from O'Reilly at 2:45

[Bill USA]

60. all acts can be rationalized if you are a True Believer!!

[SwampG8r]

87. Spoken like a true hillarian

[danimich1]

62. I don't see how

This would hurt Hillary. Whatever.

[seabeyond]

66. Sanders has been much less critical of Repug Party, less head to head with Trump, less volitile

than he is with Clinton. Yes, one has to ask why.

[Armstead]

69. Disappointing coming from you...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512058083

[GreatGazoo]

71. Homophobic dog whistle in the headline ?

they keep claiming victory even as they stoop to lower and more desperate attacks

It is an absurd piece but use of the double entendre headline is disgusting.

[SharonClark]

84. You need to work on your outrage, it's not working for you

[GreatGazoo]

90. you excuse bigotry?

[baldguy]

72. He switched teams weeks ago.

He had the chance to bow out gracefully & retain his much-vaunted integrity - he chose to stay in & double-down on his attacks on Democrats.

[barrow-wight]

73. This whole primary has become a reality show.

Trump's contribution to all this should surprise no one. Bernie's, however, that kinda surprises me. I never thought he was a great candidate but now he just repulses me. I almost think the two of them should debate. At least then, while Trump is debating against the craziest of Bernie's "principles," America (and the world) can see just how extreme they both are. In such a scenario, Hillary becomes the sensible choice.

[smiley]

75. This will hurt Hillary?

Goddamn right it would. But it doesn't take much these days.

[Autumn]

76. Kevin Drum is a fucking idiot, Bernie is not switching sides.

[Betty Karlson]

78. Kevin, all Clinton has to do is honour her promise and debate Bernie:

problem solved. Don't break promises and expect to get away with it.

[Ken Burch]

79. How does debating Trump equate to ENDORSING Trump?

Last edited Thu May 26, 2016, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

HRC is going to be debating Trump in the fall(she can't be elected if she refuses to debate the guy)and Bernie will be able to more effectively attack Trump, since unlike HRC Bernie has never been aligned with the or agreed with him on major issues(HRC and Trump were pretty much in lockstep with each other on NY state politics in the Nineties and early Zeros).

[Demsrule86]

97. By hurting our nominee

He has now joined Trump and in effect endorsed him...I have disliked Bernie for some time...but I underestimated how awful he truly is.

[Ken Burch]

106. debating is the opposite of endorsing.

And you would have been hostile Bernie no matter what, because he committed the crime of running for the presidency as a progressive.

[Demsrule86]

141. double teaming with the Republican nominee against the Democratic nominee

is wrong period... he can not win and will officially be done on June 7ths when she has the majority of all pledged delegates...by 8:00 PM. I am not 'hostile' to Bernie Sanders...I out and out despise him. He has risked my kid's future and for what his giant ego?

[Tal Vez]

80. "What happened to the old Bernie Sanders?"

The old Bernie Sanders was a politician. So, is the new Bernie Sanders. His primary concern is his own best interests and there is a conflict between his best interests and the best interests of the Democratic Party.

[senz]

88. Bernie is taking on the 1% for the 99%.

His interests are the interests of the American people. He is doing it for US.

[Tal Vez]

91. "He is doing it for US."

Ralph Nader made the same claim in 2000. Then he helped turn the country over to George W Bush.

Bernie's criticisms of Clinton have become gratuitous. They serve no one but Bernie and Trump.

[Demsrule86]

107. No he is not

His antics could cost us the GE...and that would mean courts packed for a generation...Bernie is a selfish person who cares for Bernie.

[senz]

81. Hill Folk were sneering that it might not happen. Now they're all pissed.

Calm down, Hill Folk. Your candidate didn't want to debate Bernie.

No problem. Right?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

92. A lot of people will be eating their words (that said, this isn't going to happen)

But it's got people throwing their poop, so that's all good.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

93. Dems debating Rs was a good idea when Bernie suggested it before they began and it remains so.

The world doesn't revolve around Hills.

[JCanete]

95. wtf with calling trump a master at anything. He may somehow, despite his glaring deficits

win the presidency, but that says only that the American populace has lost its goddamned mind, or that and too many of us are tired of giving our vote to the DNC's darlings and letting it get used as evidence of directional consent. Such an embarrassing event for our nation will say nothing about Trump being a master at anything. He's just spouting a kind of crazy that resonates with a subset of our population, and that comes naturally to him, because he is that crazy. He's no maniacal manipulator.

Posts that give him this kind of credit, as if he's somehow playing Sanders, are absurd. Trump is not going to fare well in this or any other exchange. He's going to get bludgeoned on his hypocrisies, his off the cuff declarations, his own shady business practices and his horrible understanding of any level of policy, whether domestic or foreign, and if he doesn't know that, then no he's no master, and no genius.

[Demsrule86]

96. this is who he is

He was never the guy we thought he was...and Now he is dead to me. I don't believe a word he says...he talks about Hillary...his judgement is not good. Honestly, I don't believe this person could win a general...and I state here and now this is it...I will not vote for him if he somehow managed to steal the election.

[JCanete]

103. who is he? the person that "talks about hillary?" the person who will tear trump up in a debate?

The person who has poor judgement about ...what? I get that you have an opinion, I just don't know what you're saying here. What exactly are you objecting to? Who did you think he was? How did he betray your vision?

[basselope]

112. This is EXACTLY who he is...

And the reason we support him.

Someone not beholden to religio... I mean "party"

[Demsrule86]

140. I would never support someone like him

He put everything I deem important at risk...LGBT rights, abortion rights , social welfare programs, 15 dollar minimum wage, health care etc...by lining up with Trump...he is on Trump's team now. He helps Trump win which is what he seems to be doing...everything we worked for ...for 60 years and more gone.

[basselope]

143. And all those things you state is why I would never support someone like her.

Because those things get shoved off the table and put on the floor where the corporations can walk all over them.

[pangaia]

101. Is Hillary too afraid to show up to a debate to which she agreed ? OR to debate trump now?

It's on her.

Too many to(o)s in that post...

[Demsrule86]

105. I have to wonder about some of you

Trump has clinched the nomination ...since Bernie is still pretending he has a chance...Hillary has not...thus Trump debates from a position of strength, Hillary could not ...based on Bernie's shenanigans...when a presidential debate happens there are two candidates for the parties...Bernie has caused so much trouble...honestly, I can't even believe how he is now in effect supporting Trump.

[pangaia]

116. Yup.You are so right. Bernie has caused trouble.

Good for him. All the liars and cheats and greedy destroyers are gradually being exposed..and they do not like it one bit. They never do.

[Demsrule86]

139. What good has he done?

None...he has taken an election where we would have won the Senate...and put it at risk...he is paying to primary Democratic safe seats...and of course he hurt our nominee...Bernie Sanders is dead to me.

[GulfCoast66]

118. You do not debate

Once the contest is over. You can use whatever Math you want that Hillary has this. Debating him now only hurts the general election prospects.

[pangaia]

119. Math math math math math math

Math math math math math math
Math math math math math math
Math math math math math math
Math math math math math math
Math math math math math math
MathMath math math math math math
Math math math math math math
Math math math math math math
math math math math math

[GulfCoast66]

121. How mature.

I take it that math is not your favorite subject. Because it does not lie nor care that it hurts your feelings.

Do not forget that many of here do not love nor hate either candidate and would happily support either. But we have been through this many times and know how it works.

So throw your little fit. And type math a whole lot more. But that does not change the fact that Clinton will be the nominee.

Is this the first time your preferred candidate has lost?

[pangaia]

123. Ah, as I expected might happen...

the entire tenor of my writings went past you like so many smoke rings...

Speaking of smoke, my mind now is so tired from 5 hours of video and music editing, my head feels like it has been stuffed in a smoke-filled niche.

So I shall retire.. but only after reading another chapter of "Beethoven for A Later Age," an almost wonderful book, but still quite good, written by the first violinist of the Takacs Quartet and dealing with Beethoven's string quartets.

In fact, I learned that Alexander took part in the Congress of Vienna in 1815. I should have know that. I mean, there IS the Alexander Hotel, after all.

[B Calm]

142. She's hoping the national security e-mail problem will go away and she is trying to hide.

[ljm2002]

114. Mother Jones herself...

...must be turning over in her grave.

She would so be a Bernie supporter in this election, IMO.

In any case, the article in question is 100% unadulterated hogwash. Bernie expected to be debating Hillary, who has chosen to renege on the deal. So if he accepts a challenge to debate Trump, I don't see that Hillary or her supporters have any cause to get on their high horse about it. Hillary could have debated Bernie but she chose not to. That's on her.

[ThinkCritically]

124. Last time I checked there hasn't been a convention yet.

And neither has won the nomination yet. Interesting that Bernie Sanders might want to fight for the nomination so he went another route to get his message out there. That is what this is about afterall. Hillary had her chance but she backed out. Maybe because she would be asked about the email investigation currently in the news.

[DrDan]

128. he is out to hurt the Democratic party for not lining up behind him,

hurt Hillary because she is soundly beating him,
hurt his colleagues for not endorsing him, and
hurt the SDs for not planning to vote for him

Angry, bitter, and lashing out

[Android3.14]

131. My-my, the Clinton's are in such a tizzy

They still fail to realize that this is a populist election...and she is as popular as an audit.

[merrily]

135. I'd bet this is right off a Hillary campaign message to her supporters in media.

In reality, neither the Hillary campaign nor Kevin Drum know what Sanders knows or what Sanders' motives are or what the effect of a Trump Sanders debate would be. The only thing I've ever heard Sanders do when speaking about Republicans is blame them for the country's problems. The only thing I've heard him say about Trump is that he (Sanders) will do his best to make sure Trump is never President.

But, there is no shortage of totally made up stuff about Sanders in media or on DU.

[Jester Messiah]

137. Pfft. More like he's reclaiming this one. n/t

[Bill USA]

147. the "Nader maneuver" cometh.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512069235

[Jester Messiah]

151. Bernie's willing to go smack Trump around... so he's on Trump's team?

That's some epic-level cognitive dissonance right there. I mean, that's in the running for the most bass-ackwards pants-on-head stupid thing I've heard this week, and it's been one of those weeks!