News Flash for Hillary Supporters... Bernie is not why Hillary is terrible.

[retrowire]

Hillary, is why Hillary is a terrible candidate.

Her favorability ratings were on the downslide this entire time. Had Bernie Sanders not even EXISTED, the Democratic Party would be at the exact same place it is today. And that place is trying to coddle and protect a presumptive nominee that has more baggage than a bellhop at a really busy hotel.

Let's take note of the shit that everyone is saying about Hillary at this very moment.

1. Emails and FBI investigation. <-- An issue before Bernie ever came along.
2. Benghazi. <-- A bullshit issue, but an issue nonetheless that was there before Bernie came along.
3. Wall St ties. <-- Oh you know Bernie hammers on this, but it was an issue before he came along because of Occupy.
4. Clinton Foundation. <-- An issue before Bernie came along.
5. Her passive attitude towards BLM. <-- An issue she made for herself.
6. Her husband. <-- Something that I really don't think should matter, but it's baggage that hurts her, regardless of Bernie, hell he doesn't even talk about it.

And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

This meme that Bernie needs to "STOP HE'S RUINING OUR CHANCES" is bullshit. He's playing by the rules as he should. These are the rules of Democracy. Neither of our candidates have acquired the magic number of pledged delegates to become the nominee. Neither of them will. And there will be a contested convention because of this. Everytime I hear someone whine about how undemocratic it is for Bernie staying in, I remember being mocked for whining about Super Delegates and being told, "That's how our democratic process works! Don't like it? Leave it!"

Well guess what! You don't like Bernie staying in and contesting the nomination? Leave it!

We need to see that Hillary is a sinking ship candidate. All Bernie is doing is reminding us of that. Even if he weren't here, she'd STILL be in this situation, the only problem would be, we wouldn't have a plan B. And the B stands for Bernie.

Get mad at him all you want. The faults of Hillary's are her OWN, and he did not create them.

Feel free to continue supporting Hillary. But think REALLY hard about the damage she is doing to the Democratic Party by staying in the race. Sinking ships sometimes make it to their destinations, sure. But consider what that ship is up against, and whether or not it's baggage can be thrown overboard.

----

ETA: Kind of funny to see how many Hillary supporters quickly miss the point here. Got all defensive because I called Hillary a terrible candidate.

Here's the point in BOLD for those of you with the hurt ego.

Bernie cannot be blamed for Hillary's faults. The meme that is going around that Bernie should drop out because he's ruining her chances, is not his doing. Now, you may comment appropriately on the topic. Thank you.

[bravenak]

1. Newsflash! She beat Bernie TERRIBLY

[rhett o rick]

14. How sad that you must repeat that over and over trying to get yourself to believe it.

First of all we are in the 8th inning, the game is not over. Why so anxious to get him to quit? Afraid to play the whole game?
Secondly, he has exposed the lying and cheating within the Democratic Party that we are fighting against. He has exposed the DNC as the tool of the Oligarchy as is the Corp-Media. He has exposed the election system in this country for the fraud it is.

And those that choose to side with the Corporations vs. the People are not Democrats. We are the People's Party, the corporists Party is the Republicon Party.

The Oligarchy managed to give the Presidency to their candidate in 2000 and 2004 and now are trying again with Clinton.

[bravenak]

15. She beat Bernie TERRIBLY

[mindwalker_i]

18. Spank that monkey!

Hillary, along with DWS and the entire media, plus a bit of election fraud have (almost) beat Bernie.

[bravenak]

26. Blacks and women and minorities came together to beat him. Deal with it

We finally have some power when we come together, no wonder the cries of oppression are deafening from those who do not suffer our circumstances. How dare us blacks and women get together to form a bigger coalition than you all! Why that's RIGGING the vote!

[mindwalker_i]

48. Ah, the goto issue: sexism/racism

Every single argument against Hillary is because of sexism and/or racism, regardless of whether the person making the argument said anything related to either.

[bravenak]

53. Shoulda been more diverse and you all might have won

Attacking us nonstop just made us know exactly what was going on. Poor white men, blacks and women are so MEEEAAAN

[mindwalker_i]

57. The sad thing is that nobody said that

So it came directly from your backside, did not pass go, did not collect $200. And you do mare harm to both issues by labeling everything as a sexist or racist issue. It makes people roll their eyes even when issues are sexist or racist. Kind of like calling the person yakking on their cellphone Hitler - the name/term loses its meaning.

[bravenak]

60. It came from here and there and everywhere

Black writers and activists who have had the temerity to challenge Sanders’s record have been targeted by his supporters in ways that go against not just civility but even decency. I should know. I’m one of them. For having the gall to share my perspective, buoyed by polling data, that self-described socialists are pretty much unelectable to the American presidency, his supporters attempted to harass me offline

This is your problem, not Hillary

[mindwalker_i]

66. Ah, the BerneBro argument

Hillary and her supporters have cried racism/sexism so much, it's impossible to believe them any more.

Thing is, Hillary didn't have any issues to run on so she ran on being a woman. Racism was closely related so she took that on too. However, her campaign is only tooled to deal with that, so every issue has to be made into being sexist and/or racist. There's nothing else she is prepared to fight for or against.

Her supporters, taking their lead from her, are also incapable of dealing with any issues unless they can make them sexist and/or racist. And they have applied it to everything. "How will breaking up the banks solve sexism and racism?"

However, this means Hillary supporters have lost the right to be taken seriously when they "cry wolf" on sexism and racism.

[bravenak]

76. Says the oppressed white folks

[mindwalker_i]

90. Proves my point exactly

I said nothing about being oppressed, but since there was no other possibly issue, you had to make somehting up about it - pull the same, tired, overused argument out of your backside, again. Rinse, repeat.

[bravenak]

92. .

[mindwalker_i]

100. Another common tactic by Hill supporters

When you can't argue the issue, yawn, of post a sleep smilie. Sucks when people don't buy your bullshit.

[bravenak]

102. Wah!

[mindwalker_i]

107. Same thing here

You haven't even attempted to put forth one argument based on logic or reason, only said "You're all racist! You're oppressing meeeeeeeeee!!!1!!11!11!!" And when that didn't work, resort to smilies. That's pretty much the extent of Hillary's campaign.

[bravenak]

119. You still goin?

[mindwalker_i]

195. Yes, and the sad thing is

that you're replies with zzz's and such are the height of your intellectual arguments.

[rhett o rick]

89. There are two clear sides, the progressives (Sanders side) that historically have worked hard

to support social justice issues and the conservative side (Clinton) that have historically used race as a wedge issue. Goldman-Sachs doesn't care to fix racial injustice but exploit it. The Clintons were responsible for policies that devastated the AA communities.

“Make no mistake, Hillary Clinton's efforts to push these policies resulted in the continued destruction of Black communities and the swift growth of our mass incarceration crisis.”

BLM Ashley Williams

[mindwalker_i]

101. Yup, but it won't make a dent in the faithful

"Stop confusing the issues with facts!"

[rhett o rick]

105. Authoritarian Adulation

[all american girl]

183. It's not racist/sexist to point out a fact...Hillary won over POC and women, Bernie didn't.

[mindwalker_i]

196. It's a non-sequitur

Hillary and her supporters don't deal with any issues other than race/sex. In order to be able to talk about anything, it has to be made into a racial or sexist issue. By talking about them, she has gained a larger following of non-whites and women. Not terribly surprising. The problem is that Hillary won't actually do anything to help them.

[all american girl]

199. Just talking about who voted for her isn't racist/sexist, it is just what it is...facts

if you want to make facts into that, that's not my problem. As a woman, I voted for her because of my own reason...also my husband-a man-was for her loooong before I was...so there's that.


Here's the deal, have a conversation about things people like us want to hear..it's no more racist/sexist than Obama...

[mindwalker_i]

202. Your husband is a man?

Good to hear, I guess.

You are intentionally avoiding the point I made, that everything has to be turned into a sexist or racist issue in order for Hillary or her supporters to be able to talk about it. That completely screws up any conversations about any issues.

"How will breaking up the big banks solve sexism or racism?"

There's a good example right there.

[all american girl]

207. Yes, husband means a man...know i making it into rasist/sexist but berinie supporters not

understanding that POC and women voted for her...it is what it is...you can make it into another issue, but POC and women voted for Hillary...and my husband

[RoccoR5955]

91. They did come together

ESPECIALLY in blood red states which will NEVER EVER carry her in the general election!

[bravenak]

94. So what?

[RoccoR5955]

99. I guess that the general election does not matter.

As long as Hilliary gets the nod.
Okay. If that's your game then that's your game!

[all american girl]

184. And Idaho is sooo liberal...who won that state...or how about Nebraska or Kansas

[Buddyblazon]

111. The argument of a person without an argument...

Sad really. Everybody that doesn't agree with you a sexist or racist?

Amusingly, I had a moment with 6 women earlier today. Aged 23-43. One made a comment about Trump...one responded with, "I'm feelin the Bern.", to which all acknowledged they were Bernie supporters. I'm seeing them all tomorrow. I'll let them know they're all sexist. Oh...and the Asian and AA two...ill let them know they're racists. Lol

[bravenak]

114. Blah blah blah

[all american girl]

182. Yeah Bravenak...women are winning!!!!!!!!!!

[B Calm]

171. LOL +1

[rhett o rick]

19. LOL. Those that never wanted Sanders to run really don't believe in democracy.

They wanted Hillary to be anointed and are still trying to ridicule Sanders to quit. Not very Democratic nor democratic.

Seems that those supporting Hillary would rather she lose to Trump than Sanders. That's right isn't it? Anyone but a true progressive.

[bravenak]

22. Her got beat very badly by her

[rhett o rick]

31. She betrayed her Party and her country when she joined Bush to invade Iraq.

[bravenak]

35. He betrayed us by trying to go after Trump voters

Anything to marginalize those voting for Clinton. We noticed how he treated us and his base too. We voted accordingly. It is the fault of his campaign and his base that he lost. Deal with it. Next time be more diverse.

[rhett o rick]

49. Maybe you didn't see what BLM had to say about Hillary.

Ashley Williams said this:

“Here's the truth: the Clinton legacy has left our prisons bursting at the seams. Real lives have been destroyed as a result. It is an indisputable fact that millions of Black people were locked up for drug crimes and provided the bodies for the expansion of the prison industry.

The 1994 Crime Bill that she so vigorously defended not only expanded incarceration, but stripped funding for college education from prisoners. The Clinton legacy allowed for policies that prevented anyone convicted of a felony drug offense from receiving food stamps or income assistance. Clinton-led welfare reform fundamentally ripped apart the social safety net.”


“Make no mistake, Hillary Clinton's efforts to push these policies resulted in the continued destruction of Black communities and the swift growth of our mass incarceration crisis.”

And here's what Michelle Alexander had to say:

“Far from resisting the emergence of the new caste system, Clinton escalated the drug war beyond what conservatives had imagined possible a decade earlier. As the Justice Policy Institute has observed, “the Clinton Administration’s ‘tough on crime’ policies resulted in the largest increases in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history.”99 Clinton eventually moved beyond crime and capitulated to the conservative racial agenda on welfare. This move, like his “get tough” rhetoric and policies, was part of a grand strategy articulated by the “new Democrats” to appeal to the elusive white swing voters. In so doing, Clinton—more than any other president—created the current racial undercaste. He signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, which “ended welfare as we know it,” replacing Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) with a block grant to states called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). TANF imposed a five-year lifetime limit on welfare assistance, as well as a permanent, lifetime ban on eligibility for welfare and food stamps for anyone convicted of a felony drug offense—including simple possession of marijuana.”
― Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow

The Clintons are not and have never been friends of the AA community.

Do you honestly think an Admin sponsored by Goldman-Sachs will help with social justice? What do you imagine Hillary said to them to get millions and millions in "speaking fees"?

[bravenak]

51. I do not CARE what they say about it. Nobody runs me just because we both black.

Do I post things that white folks say to try to force you to think my way just because you're both white? That would be wrong.

[rhett o rick]

54. No but you try to say that Sanders supporters need to be more diverse. The bottom line is

you'd be better off with Sanders than Trump, but it appears you would rather have Trump than Sanders.

[bravenak]

56. Better off with Hillary than Sanders who just wants to bring back working class whites

Black writers and activists who have had the temerity to challenge Sanders’s record have been targeted by his supporters in ways that go against not just civility but even decency. I should know. I’m one of them. For having the gall to share my perspective, buoyed by polling data, that self-described socialists are pretty much unelectable to the American presidency, his supporters attempted to harass me offline

This was said by a black journo. This is your problem. Not Hillary. You guys failed to win us, not her fault, own up to your own flaws like we do. Maybe you all should apologize, I'm sure we will be MOST gracious compared to yourselves when recieving an apology. We won't harass you offline.

[rhett o rick]

63. Sadly you turn your back on progressives that have always been there. Hillary hasn't. She

represents Wall Street and the Wealthy that want to split the 99% up by race. Have us fighting among ourselves. But I guess you are ok with that. Put your faith in the Wealthy and turn your back on the progressives that have been fighting for social justice forever.

[bravenak]

75. You guys turned your backs on us immediately. All we saw was your badside

[rhett o rick]

79. This is a class war and Goldman-Sachs isn't on the same side as the People.

I think you've chosen the wrong side.

[bravenak]

81. Goldman sachs has not a damn thing to do with how YOU treated US.

Kinda like our own oligarchy up in here.

[rhett o rick]

95. Good grief. Good luck with Goldman-Sachs.

[RoccoR5955]

97. It's her turn damnit!

When are Bernie bros gonna understand that!?

[CorkySt.Clair]

124. You repeat a lot of things as well

To the point where it becomes cartoonish. Oligarchs, oligarchy, one percent etc.

Pro tip: Self awareness is your friend.

[bravenak]

127. Goldman sachs!!

[Bobbie Jo]

146. If you've read one

you've read them all.

Seriously...

[Chasstev365]

43. Number 1 Hillary Apologist!

[bravenak]

47. I want my damn trophy

[Hortensis]

180. You already have a club and use it so well. :)

As for the OP's list of complaints, he's really shooting in the wrooong direction. Don't like Hillary's "baggage," Retrowire? Take it up with these people.

WashPo, 9/2015: Judicial Watch, pursuing the Clintons like Inspector Javert for 2 decades

If you, like at least a quarter of the American electorate, were not born or were still in footies or watching “Barney” when the first Hillary Clinton “scandal” made the cover of Time magazine in 1994 for “clouding her image,” fret not. A conservative watchdog group called “Judicial Watch,” which was on the case then, is still on it now and is more than happy to fill you in.

Its band of expert Freedom of Information Act lawyers — and make no mistake, they are good — continue to plumb the depths of what was called in the mid-’90s the “Whitewater controversy,” the “Whitewater scandal” or the “vast right-wing conspiracy.”

In fact, just this week, Judicial Watch announced it was “asking a federal court to order the National Archives and Records Administration to release draft criminal indictments of Hillary Clinton” stemming from that probe. While others were tried and convicted after an independent counsel probe, Clinton was not charged with breaking any laws.

And if you’ve never heard of, or have long forgotten, the blazing controversy surrounding Bill Clinton’s “last-minute pardon” of then-fugitive financier Marc Rich, the husband of a big donor to Clinton’s presidential library, as he left office in 2001, Judicial Watch has a big file on that too.

The same goes for such relics as the “Travelgate” affair (vintage 1995, involving first lady Hillary Clinton and the White House travel office); the suicide of White House aide Vince Foster; all of Bill Clinton’s alleged women, of course; the “pimping out of the Lincoln Bedroom,” as Judicial Watch puts it; and everything and anything Clinton through the mist of time to the present.

When it comes to the Clintons, with thousands of FOIA requests and related lawsuits, Judicial Watch hardly needs the National Archives. It’s got its own. “Here at Judicial Watch,” its website says, we’ve had a long relationship with Bill and Hillary Clinton. …We know the Clintons well.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/30/judicial-watch-pursuing-the-clintons-like-inspector-javert-since-before-the-millennium/

Judicial Watch is a right-wing political action group founded and funded by ultraconservative billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife. Unfortunately, Scaife himself escaped justice by dying wealthy and honored of old age a couple years ago.

[Arazi]

72. Actually she's much more than that. Much more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280152392

[bravenak]

77. Stop paying attention to me then. All that searhing me all over the net has been nasty

Makes YOU guys look obsessed about me.

[Arazi]

83. Months of smearing Bernie and his supporters as racist/sexist while you had your own bigotry

I didn't out you. Go after whoever discovered the truth

[bravenak]

85. I'm not the type to doxx folks. I have an actual fucking life

[Arazi]

98. This isn't about doxxing

But you knew that

Carry on

[bravenak]

108. It damn sure is and you know it.

People need to stop obsessing over posters on a message board. I'll let you know if I run for congress so you can whip out your evidence.

[Arazi]

117. Nah, I only pay real attention on DU to those who've shown their shit

Not sure how running for Congress figures in here but whatever Im just happy youre kicking retrowires thread with his excellent post

[bravenak]

118. Yeah okay

[chwaliszewski]

59. I thought this would be appropriate

[bravenak]

61. It will be fun to look back over these threads in a few weeks

[chwaliszewski]

73. I would like your honest opinion of us diehard Bernie supporters...

don't hold back.

[bravenak]

74. Privileged

[chwaliszewski]

113. Some, most, or all?

I'm a 51 year old white male, married almost 17 years with two kids, served in the US Navy after high school, earned a college degree that I paid for with student loans, and have been working full time in the semiconductor industry as a technician for the last 20 years. Would you consider that privileged?

[bravenak]

115. Damn straight. Never get pulled over just because you black

I have. No criminal record but have had guns drawn on me in my truck for a broken brake light. You?

[chwaliszewski]

125. Can't say that I have. That would completely justify your attitude of thinking I'm privileged.

I moved from the suburbs in western NY back in 1977 to southeast Tx where the demographics of my school went from 99% caucasian to 60% caucasian, 30% African-American, 10% Hispanic. For a 12 year old starting the 7th grade, it was a bit of a change. Of course, me being from NY meant "Yankee this and yankee that" on top of me sounding different than everyone else. Oh, yeah...there's the issue of my last name Chwaliszewski. A hundred laughs a minute for years; I got in few fist fights over that one. And yet, I managed to not only survive but succeed because I won't let anything stop me from achieving what I want.

I remember watching a standup routine with Denis Leary and he said "Life sucks. Get a helmet." And he's right.

[bravenak]

126. I came from the hood in south central la

Moved to where it is mostly white folks, stick out like a sore thumb, which mean I am obviously a criminal, look how dark I am!
Imagine how much harder things would be if you were a black man in the same situ.

I'm sure cops harass me much more and I'm female, way less likely than you to hurt somebody or commit a crime, so why? You have white privilege. I get followed around in Nordstrom's.

The constant supervision backed up by law is fucking brutal, never at peace. Then I get told it's nothing really, people who are not harassed like that are not really privileged, I'm imagining it. Pulling the race card, if you will. They don't give a shit about the bullshit I deal with, they just wanna play 'i'm more oppressed than blacks!' It's a stupid game they play with themselves. Completely delusional here in america.

[chwaliszewski]

135. Sorry to hear about your plight...

Feel free to hate a complete stranger if it makes you feel better.

[bravenak]

136. What a silly thing to say. Plight? Thats just black life

Hate? Dont even know ya playa

[chwaliszewski]

142. Wasn't trying to be silly.

Quite frankly, I don't even know where you're going with this conversation. So far, I've learned that I'm part of the white privilege problem that is partly responsible for you having a tough life. Okay.

And Hillary is gonna fix this, how exactly?

[bravenak]

143. Neither one of them will fix it.

But one admits that it is a real problem, the other calls it a distraction from the 'real problems'- income inequality.

[chwaliszewski]

148. Well, I for one wish you nothing but good luck for the rest of your life.

And I will be voting Bernie, no matter what.

[bravenak]

149. Good fortune to yourself as well

[forjusticethunders]

181. oppression goes from something very abstract to something very real

when a cop has an automatic weapon jammed against your back just for living in the "wrong" house.

[840high]

88. Love your sig line.

[chwaliszewski]

116. Feel free to use it.

It's no different than saying "You can't spell Bernie without b e e r."

[840high]

122. Thanks.

[Duval]

188. Very appropriate! nt

[pansypoo53219]

67. NEWSFLASH, the CORPORATE MEDIA MADE IT THAT WAY ON PURPOSE.

its called manipulation for ratings. they WANT tRUMP to win. RATINGS! WEEEEEEEEEE.

[Logical]

164. Lol, yet she is still losing states to him! get a clue! Nt

[Herman4747]

185. Perhaps among Democrats. BUT NOT AMONG INDEPENDENTS:

And Independents, who are easily more numerous than Democrats, can and will vote in November.

[workinclasszero]

190. Well DUH the contest was for the DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOMINATION!!

Why do you people ALWAYS GET THAT WRONG???

[Herman4747]

193. Because we are concerned about the viability of our candidate...

in November, and we realize that to win our candidate will need to appeal to many Independents!!!

[workinclasszero]

194. If your weakass candidate can't even win his own party's nomination....(Sanders a democrat HA!)

What makes you think he could win in the general!?

[Herman4747]

198. Decent question.

Here's the answer.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders

By the way, for comparison purposes, we have:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton

Wow -- that's getting a bit too risky, don't you think?

[workinclasszero]

200. Any general election poll taken now is meaningless

Hillary is being tag teamed by Trump and Sanders for one thing.

When Sanders is finally forced to admit defeat, then GE polls come into play. Not now.

As always berners can't understand the damn primary come first!

[Herman4747]

205. It's "meaningless" because you want it to be...

...and your logic is to take the candidate who is doing worse, over the candidate who is doing better.

And it's not just general election polls; it's also favorability. Hillary's disapproval rating is at least 55%.

[workinclasszero]

206. OMG

The party nomination comes FIRST!!!!

Unbelievable that you all can't get that through your heads!

i guess its just the despair of knowing deep down in your heart that Hillary beat Sanders and in a few more days, the game is over huh?

[workinclasszero]

189. Beat the living hell out of him actually

[Time for change]

197. It took a great deal of voter suppression to get her to this point

Without it, my guess is that Bernie would be in the lead now.

Doesn't that bother you just a little bit?

[Scootaloo]

203. Good to see your contribution to the discourse is as elevated as ever n/t

[Trenzalore]

2. Bernie came in 2nd place to a terrible candidate is what you are saying I guess.

[Thinkingabout]

3. A News Flash for Bernie Supporters, Hillary nor DWS is the reason why Sanders is not a better

Candidate, Hillary nor DWS did not provide Sanders with his unrealistic agenda, this is on Sanders and his campaign team.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. Newsflash! Hillary is not terrible and the phrase "Madam President" has a nice ring to it.

[retrowire]

6. Congrats for being the only one to give a reply that is on topic.

Everyone else wants to point out that Bernie is losing and that's his fault.

Not my point though.

The point of this OP is express my opposition to the opinion that Bernie is somehow ruining everything for Hillary.

If you feel that she's not a terribly candidate and you like the sound of "Madam President" then that's cool with me.

Just take it from this Bernie supporter, I disagree with anyone who says Bernie is ruining Hillary's chances.

[rhett o rick]

16. She is clearly a friend of the Oligarchy and not the 99%. Why not choose a friend of

the 99%?

[Arkansas Granny]

40. I'm not choosing friends. I don't dislike Bernie, but I think Hillary is the best candidate.

It appears that the majority of Democratic voters agree with me.

[rhett o rick]

58. After the Rich and Powerful manipulated the election system Hillary is ahead. Funny how people that

agreed that the Oligarchy manipulated the system to get Bush in the Presidency in 2000 and 2004 don't recognize they are doing it again. Clinton represents the billionaires that don't believe in democracy.

[TrueDemVA]

64. Too bad it's not only Democrats that vote in a election

Almost half of the Democratic voters allowed to vote, key word is "allowed," don't like her. Come election time, many democrats and independents will not be voting for her. But yeah, what the heck, let's celebrate the fact she couldn't even get the number of pledged delegates to secure the nomination.

That's even while running against someone people only heard about a few months ago. It's not man vs woman like so many people want to make this about. It is ideas and their record people are concerned with and that is why she is going to need all the help she can get from her lobbyist buddies, wait, I mean elected officials (super delagates)

[Maedhros]

65. Democrats have established themselves as the Party that goes along to get along.

I think it's time to stop going along with the belligerent neocon foreign policy and destructive neoliberal economic policy. You disagree.

[timmymoff]

24. Like the ring of steel jail doors slamming

[rhett o rick]

52. There are a lot of people that don't believe she is honest. Her lies in 2002 about WMD in

Iraq probably didn't help. She has an integrity problem.

[JudyM]

5. HRC's substantial flaws are neither Bernie's fault nor do they warrant his supporters' overlooking

them. Those flaws (as well as her positions) justify our aversion.

We want to beat tRump just as much; we just have a superior candidate.

[SFnomad]

7. And yet, BS is being beaten in the Primaries by Secretary Clinton ... that must be embarrassing n/t

[Tal Vez]

8. If the nomination should become worthless to Clinton,

then maybe she should direct that her delegates vote to nominate Biden. That's the best way of making sure that future candidates in the position of Sanders don't try to assist in rendering a nomination worthless to the winning candidate.

[MADem]

9. Hillary is great. She has a wonderful platform, she has

great, workable ideas, and no one cares about the crap you keep dragging up.

She also has millions more "actual" voters--not bullying caucus attendees. Example:



Fitzmas ain't coming. Resorting to right wing memes to make your case, too, fails to impress.

You'd be better off worrying about the federal investigators looking into Jane Sanders' deals up in Burlington. She's certainly made herself scarce after she promised (where are they, Jane?) those tax returns, and that college she shepherded into ruin closed its doors.

As for Wall Street, there's a reason, many feel, that Bernie won't release his tax returns. Maybe two....like, he's getting some of those "Wall Street breaks" that he decries, and his tax rate doesn't match his income. We won't know unless he does what every other successful POTUS candidate has done for the last half century--and that's release several years of returns.

But see, this is not a "news flash." We've known this all along. Sanders talks a great game, but he is unable to deliver. The voters have spoken, and they'll continue to speak until he sees how pointless and divisive his quest is becoming.

Oh...and if you think Trump is going to debate Sanders, it turns out it's not "Game on!" like Bernie crowed...it's "You've been played." Trump said he was "only kidding."

Seriously-why would the GOP nominee debate the loser of the Democratic contest? Makes no sense. Trump is an idiot, but he's a canny idiot. That was never going to happen, and the only people who thought otherwise were those who hope so hard in the absence of facts that they begin to believe their own wishes. The media flogs it, because it puts eyes on small screens, and Trump loves a good shit-stir.

[Herman4747]

186. MISLEADING AS HELL.

That 26,000 number is the number of "precinct delegates" awarded -- NOT THE NUMBER OF CAUCUS PARTICIPANTS.

Over 230,000 Washington voters participated in Washington State's Democratic caucus. http://www.wa-democrats.org/page/2016-democratic-caucuses

So taking the caucus results and the primary results together -- Bernie still easily got more votes in Washington.

[immoderate]

208. You say maintaining the status quo is a "workable idea?"

We are not going in a good direction.

--imm

[seabeyond]

10. News Flash Sanders supporters. Clinton is not terrible, hence her win.

[rock]

11. Yep, what a terrible candidate

Hillary can only beat Bernie by 3 million votes (out of 23 million). Tsk, tsk. Truly terrible. Wait -- which one are we talking about?

[rhett o rick]

23. 3 million is another Clinton lie. That excludes the caucus states. Just another Clinton lie.

Gloating is so typical. Choose the side with the Rich and Powerful, the Corp-media and the corrupted DNC that lie, cheat and still elections, and then gloat.

We warned that a true progressive was needed to defeat Trump but the Corporatist Wing (Clinton) of our Party would much rather Clinton lose to Trump than a true progressive. The Oligarchy hates progressives.

[retrowire]

30. Yep, that's what they all chose to do in this thread

Except for Arkansas Granny of course. She simply disagreed. I'm cool with that.

But everyone else just wanted to clutch their pearls and scream about the results of this primary.

That's not even the fucking point of the OP lmao.

I'm simply pointing out that it's not Bernie's fault that Hillary has baggage. Her negatives are not his responsibility. And she's got to carry all that to the general? That's what I'm pointing out with the "sinking ship" phrase. We can either try and make it to port with that, or we can jump it because we DO HAVE ANOTHER OPTION. An option that has WAY LESS baggage.

[rock]

39. Hi rhett

The point about caucus numbers has been explained many times here on DU. Short version: competent mathematicians have estimated what those numbers are. The rest of your points are just mumblings.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

12. Hillary is not terrible; Bernie is the reason many liberals wrongly claim she is. N.T.

[retrowire]

13. either you didnt read my OP or...

You've got reasons that ONLY BERNIE caused the world to dislike about Hillary.

Go on, tell me some reasons that people dislike Hillary SOLELY because of Bernie.

[timmymoff]

27. One thing no liberal claims

is that she is a liberal.

[Betty Karlson]

17. Praise for Nancy Reagan

followed by two flimsy twitterlines and then...

let me just link what I wrote about it, back we she irrevocably lost me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511483223

[retrowire]

25. And there's so many here that don't seem to care.

I'm just...

There's so many DINO's running amok.

[Califonz]

38. For example

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

Pretty shocking stuff for a supposedly liberal blog.

[Betty Karlson]

45. Pretty shocking indeed. Truly DINO-territory. eom

[retrowire]

46. eww wow. nt

[Tarc]

20. 3,033,824 votes, 270 pledged delegates

[retrowire]

21. Grats on being the ninth poster to be insecure and miss the point of the OP.

It's really hilarious how many Hillary supporters came in here to clutch their pearls and scream, "Bernie's losing so haha!"

XD

Oh Hillary supporters, you make me laugh.

[Tarc]

28. As Herm Edwards said,

I thoroughly enjoy watching you piddle into the breeze, though; nothing you do or say at this point can get Hillary out of the nomination and Bernie into it.

[retrowire]

32. Still clutching those pearls eh? XD

Hey, if she makes the general, just don't forget everything I said here okay? No blaming Bernie.

That's the point of the OP btw, since you missed that... obviously. lol

[Tarc]

69. And yet you still have no answer to the question of "what is the point" ?

Ok, Bernieboi, we get it; you think the terrible, awful, no-good Hillary will be unable to defeat Trump in the fall. There must be some point or goal in posting this sort of thing over and over (and over and over and...) ? Are you one of those who think Sanders can carry California at ~70% ? That the superdelegates will make an 11th-hour save?

I find it hard to believe that a supposed adult would post a sing-songy "you're gonna be so-RRY!" just for the sake of it.

[retrowire]

71. Oh the point was in the op.

Plan B. I said it up there.

[Tarc]

78. Ahh, you're one of those who doesn't actually know the definition of "contested".

Gotcha.



Hillary will enter the convention with somewhere around 2,200 pledged delegates. The superdelegates vote with their respective state's pledged delegates; there is no 2nd round or tier. Somewhere along the line, probably with some finagling, a symbolic-for-her state like New York will be the one to put her over the 2,384 mark.

There isn't going to be a point where Sanders can step up and make a dramatic pitch to the supers, they don't vote en masse. You're in serious denial if you actually think Hillary will not be the nominee at this point.

[bravenak]

82. Has never actually voted in a presidential election. Of course he cannot know!

[retrowire]

86. Hmmm...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/a-contested-democratic-convention_b_9672328.html

Seems to me that you're the one with wishful thinking if you think the brokered process will just swing her way that easily.

If it does then, what the hey.

But a contested convention is happening.

[Tarc]

96. Seth Abramson, #3 Bernie shill behind Goodman and Shaun King ?

Yep, you're both in the same boat; not really understanding the process.

[retrowire]

104. Hmmm, he explained the math did he not?

Here, this can help too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention

[redstateblues]

50. Insecure? How about all you BSS being in denial

Bitter pill to lose.

[retrowire]

55. I'm not in denial? I understand that a contested convention will happen.

And that anything can happen from that....

I'm also just trying to tell all you Hillary supporters to not blame Bernie for any of Hillary's shortcomings.

That's literally all I'm saying. No denial about anything here.

[stevenleser]

29. Newsflash for Bernie supporters, we don't care about Bernie as a candidate. It's over. nt

[retrowire]

34. Mkay darling, that's not the point of the OP but mkay. XD nt

[stevenleser]

87. Sure it is and that's why you mention Bernie. He's irrelevant as a candidate now. nt

[retrowire]

103. Hey are you going to inexplicably support Bernie if he gives a concession speech?

Like when you inexplicably suddenly trusted and loved Hillary after she conceded to Obama? I mean it makes no sense, but that's how you roll I guess.

XD

"Hillary can't be trusted! Aww she lost to Obama! She's the greatest now!"

Oh the journey's of stevenleser...

Your opinion is irrelevant.

[ms liberty]

133. Newsflash to Fox pundit: The OP'S point is not about Bernie.

It's about Hillary being unacceptable to many democrats as a candidate, regardless of who else was running.

[amborin]

33. reckless neocon regime change Libya, double-crossing voters on Colombia FTA, Honduras, UBS, TPP,

passing legislation that helped WS investors, transcripts, abortion concessions, quid pro quo at State, etc.....

[redstateblues]

44. Bernie voted for regime change in Libya, voted against the Brady Bill

[Dem2]

36. Growl

Nobody reads these screeds, FYI.

[retrowire]

42. They clearly aren't lmao. nt

[redstateblues]

37. That makes Bernie more horrible. She is beating him by a significant margin

[retrowire]

41. Don't care. You missed the point. Here's your cookie. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

62. And Nixon won the presidency. twice. Greatest president!!!

[redstateblues]

161. and Bernie can't even win the Democratic nomination?

Bernie is a one issue candidate

[Uncle Joe]

68. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, retrowire.

[jwirr]

70. Bernie had nothing to do with welfare reform, tough on crime

laws or the repeal of Glass-Steagall but Hillary did.

[MFM008]

80. JUNE 14

[vi5]

84. Their tunnel vision is just amazing...

Last edited Fri May 27, 2016, 08:19 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm not a Bernie supporter. I like him more than her but that's not saying much at all. She may be very accomplished but she's a horribly unlikeable person, and those accomplishments all have the air of just being stepping stones for her to achieve her goal of becoming the first woman president. Even the positions that she holds that I technically agree with, I don't for one minute have even the slightest bit of confidence that she wouldn't completely sell it out if it was politically expedient for her and her career.


But Hillary supporters refuse to admit any faults with her. Hillary can never fail, she can only be failed or betrayed. Once Bernie is out of the picture they believe that she will suddenly become this beloved political figure. It's not happening. People don't like her now, and they aren't going to like her when it's her and Trump. The best she can hope for from those outside of her little circle of ardent supporters is that people hate her slightly less than Trump. I'm from a family of lifelong Democrats and every single person in my family hates her. Including and especially the women. They'll all vote for her but it's the least enthusiastic I"ve seen each and every one of them (including myself) for a Democratic presidential candidate in my entire life.

[retrowire]

93. Very well said.

So many people seem to want Bernie out of the picture as if he's the only thing holding her back. It's true, she will NOT look like roses in the general if she gets there.

Not only should her campaign hope that people hate her less, but also that they fear Trump more.

I fear Trump certainly... But I'm astonished at the amount of Americans that see him as a hero.

[snowy owl]

110. Wish my friends were your friends. Mine can't be bothered to care. Depressing.

Most of my women friends are Clinton supporters. Unfortunately, I just bore them with details. They don't care. They have the loyalty, the gender issue, and to a lesser degree party affiliation. Just facts.
Reading so many posts back and forth, I finally realize we are in the bubble. We care. I wish everyone had the intelligence to care about issues but they don't. As long as the poverty and misery doesn't touch them or the environment keeps its distance from their health and recreational opportunities, they just don't care. Richest country in world with a standard of living lower than many others because it all went to the upper crust. Bernie can't say it any more clearly than that. Still so many people do not hear the message.

I think it will have to get much, much worse before these middle Americans who do vote really care.

Yes, I'm depressed about it.

[retrowire]

112. Well if it makes you feel any better...

I have no friends other than my wife.

And all of the Bernie supporters on DU.

And that's about it.

My social life is TINY. But I make due. The few folk I do talk to, don't talk politics.

All we can do is continue the political revolution beyond these primaries, it was always meant to go further than just the 2016 election.

[Duval]

191. I am sure the political revolution will continue.

The "younger generation" like my 23 yo grandkids are very enthused over Bernie's policies. This cannot be anything but good for our country.

[TCJ70]

129. The attitude of infallibility I see from Hillary supporters makes me nervous...

...for a potential future of her in the White House. Will she be critique-able? Or are we expected to maintain the idea that every criticism is some RW conspiracy?

[vi5]

175. Are you kidding me?

We aren't even allowed to criticize Obama and his core supporters where nowhere near as obnoxious in the primary as Hillary's are now.

Also the key to your sentence is "potential" future in the white house. I'm fairly certain she's going to lose badly.

[Lil Missy]

106. And Bernie came in BEHIND HER!

[smiley]

109. K&R

What you said exactly!

[seabeyond]

120. Clinton is not in trouble. As soon as we can kick Sanders to the curb, she can get on it and will do

fine

[retrowire]

121. See post #84.

And then explain to me... PLEASE explain to me how that makes any damn sense.

How Bernie being out of the picture, will suddenly turn Hillary into gold?

Bernie has nothing to do with Hillary's shortcomings.

[seabeyond]

123. "See post #84." No thank you.

[retrowire]

130. Typical! hands over eyes lalalalalala. oh well. nt

[seabeyond]

134. Nu uh.

[chwaliszewski]

150. That Sanders is one resilient opponent, no?

Anyone else and Hillary would've been done with them months ago.

[seabeyond]

158. No, he is not. He lost. He is an inept and childish loser.

[chwaliszewski]

162. How come the primary is still going if he lost?

Perhaps you wish for the remaining states' voices to not be heard? Perhaps you should learn some patience and some tact. Or, do you wish to continue being bitter and insulting?

[Logical]

165. Lol, she is doing a terrible job of wrapping this up. Nt

[Nyan]

128. I agree with everything you said, except,

her attitude towards BLM was at best passive aggressive, and downright aggressive when she was confronted by an activist at a closed-door meeting.
I'll always remember her, a privileged white woman, leaning in, getting in the face of a black activist, and pointing finger at her. Her attitude couldn't have been more domineering.
From then on, I don't believe a single word she says about racial justice. POC only matter when they serve her votes. Not when they challenge her.

[retrowire]

131. that sounded like you agreed with me

That's what I meant anyway

[Phlem]

132. K&R!!!!

Amen!

[Recursion]

137. We have two terrible candidates, neither of whom is to blame for the other, but both of whom

seem to bring out the worst in each other, and both of whom are stuck in the party's past rather than trying to build its future. Alas.

[retrowire]

139. Theres a novel opinion. hmm... nt

[Recursion]

140. I feel it strongly. This is the literal two worst candidates we could have narrowed down to

And this isn't just O'Malley sour grapes: Tester, Schweizer, Bullock, McRaven, Beshear, Napolitano, Warren, Sebelius, Wolf, Gregoire, Hassan, Gutiérrez, Locke: any one of these would have been better.

[retrowire]

141. It helps to see opinions like these.

It's a refreshing perspective and I respect that.

[bravenak]

144. Any of them but Schweitzer

He really turned me off. Did not feel drawn to him at all.

[LenaBaby61]

138. One more day....

Closer to June 14th.

[ms liberty]

145. Well said, and I agree

In a thread a couple of years ago, one of those early 2016 election threads that started popping up around the mid terms, I said that my preference was that Hillary would decline to run. This was before Bernie had announced he was even thinking about running, and Hillary had not announced, either. I am still of that opinion: I wish she had declined to run.

[retrowire]

147. Might I ask why that was your opinion so early on? nt

[ms liberty]

159. More or less what was in the OP, plus some other things.

Although this whole email thing wasn't a story when I said it. Her 08 run disgusted me and sealed her fate for me as unacceptable; her campaign used race and religion, in a most reprehensible way. I was already not a fan though, even in 08. She has terrible judgement, and has few of the qualities or character traits I want in a POTUS.
I could probably be more detailed and coherent, but I'm tired; I have a partially torn rotator cuff and am having surgery on Tuesday. It was just decided day before yesterday, so I've been scrambling all week trying to prepare the 3 people who are going to be collectively doing my work while I'm out for the next while...anywhere from 4 to 8 or 12 weeks, depending on how much has to be fixed in there. I've been dealing with it for several weeks now; not sleeping enough, and hurting too much. It is taking a toll on me, and I'm ready to have it fixed and get better!

[retrowire]

160. You get some sleep then! :)

I see what you mean about Hillary's demeanor in 08. I wasn't politically activated then, so I wasn't paying attention. But I have heard things.

Good luck with your surgery on Tuesday! You'll be back to throwing fast balls in no time!

[Demsrule86]

151. Bernie is a whiny sore loser who cares only for himself.

He lost the election...and is now throwing a temper tantrum. I despise him and sincerely hope he is paid back for playing on Trumps team against our nominee. Hopefully people in the remaining races will be so horrified at his behavior that he will be trounced and slink back to the Senate...first thing the Dems do is take away any concessions at the convention...one vote she goes in and he goes out...escorted out by security.

[retrowire]

152. Hmmm....

Member since: Wed Jul 13, 2011, 08:37 AM
Number of posts: 2,772
Number of posts, last 90 days: 2622

Mkay then. Sleeper account confirmed.

[ucrdem]

153. Stay away from RW media.

Problem solved.

[retrowire]

156. Literally the most close minded response to this thread. nt

[libdem4life]

204. Funny how we pretty much agree the MSM

is self- censured then excoriate ... Kill the Messenger. .. those not censored.

[Juicy_Bellows]

154. KICK

They will never find fault or admit she deserves some blame - perpetual victim-hood and blind adoration are what's for dinner.

And they will lay the blame on thicker than day old oatmeal on Bernie and his supporters if/when she loses.

[retrowire]

155. They're already blaming Bernie.

And yet in this OP, they seem to be avoiding my point about that. Hmmmm.... lol

[laserhaas]

157. Possibly worse...anyone else..but Bernie..would be all over

This chit...spreading it like it should be

[JoePhilly]

163. You can try to rearrange things as much as you want.

Bernie is not going to win. Period.

You can hope and pray that Hillary loses to Trump as much as you want.

I hope Bernie stays in until he's lost so completely, that even his angriest DU supporters know it.

Its the only way some of them will be able to move on with their lives.

[retrowire]

169. WOOOOSH lmao. nt

[Duval]

192. Wow! Where did that come from?

No one is hoping and praying that Hillary loses to Trump.

[mhatrw]

166. CLINTON FOUNDATION and CLINTONIAN $100+ million in speaking fees.

These have NOTHING to do with Sanders.

[Live and Learn]

167. Exactly, Hillary lost me long before she even announced her candidacy. Bernie running was

just icing on the cake.

[noiretextatique]

168. Amen eom

[oberliner]

170. The meme is not that Bernie should drop out, just that he should focus his attacks on Trump

Like Hillary is doing.

[retrowire]

172. but hes still in the primary so thats not logical.

He can play offense with both.

[oberliner]

173. It is somewhat logical

In the sense that the top priority for both Democratic candidates is to defeat Trump. And since Bernie has himself repeatedly said that his pathway to getting the nomination is extremely narrow, he recognizes that Hillary is likely to be the nominee. I think he can focus on his signature issues without specifically directing too much fire on Hillary.

[retrowire]

174. I understand what youre saying

But as it is, there are still many of us that are in it until the end. We have our reasons and I understand if you don't agree with them but that's what it is. Whatever the outcome, we will see it soon.

In the general, there will be plenty of time for the Democratic party to pull itself together. I have faith in that no matter who we nominate.

But I don't have much faith in our nation to understand how important it is to say no to Trump.

[oberliner]

179. I mostly agree with you

I certainly support Bernie staying in it to the end and raising the important issues that he has been raising since day one related to economic inequality, climate change, and his other signature points. It is great for the party and the country to have his voice discussing these topics that are of critical importance to the people of this country (and are often ignored or downplayed by the MSM). I just don't like when he seems to be directing so much hostility towards Hillary, who, on her worst day is infinitely better than the Republicans, as Bernie has said in the past.

[apcalc]

176. She is a great candidate!

The smartest, most knowledgeable, most qualified out there!

[retrowire]

177. And everyone agrees with you. /:) nt

[MaeScott]

178. Kicked and rec'd.

[Duval]

187. All of this is true.

Wish I could rec 10 times, retrowire. Hillary, herself, has caused these problems! She will lose to Trump, but Bernie will not.

[TeacherB87]

201. Newsflash

Bernie wants her to be less popular regardless of whether it's working, this is antithetical to his entire movement.
Bernie would look no better if he were receiving the kind of attention and criticism Hillary has gotten for the past several decades.

[beltanefauve]

209. I don't think Bernie

could lessen her popularity any more than she has already lessened it all by herself. If anything, Bernie has declined to go after her over her "damn emails ", and character attacks on Bill seem to be off-limits too. With Hillary's low trustworthy ratings, which are self-inflicted, I really don't see how people are going to suddenly trust her in time for the General Election.

[TeacherB87]

210. All she has to do is come off as more reliable than Trump.

Besides, Bernies comparative advantage in general election polls exists because he has received virtually no attention including criticism in the media. His numbers reflect a ceiling that will surely fall after he gets attacked for Socialism or whatever. Even aside from that, he has no chance of getting the nom. so discussions about his general election viability only serve to promote bitterness and strife where we should be concentrating on other things. Namely, how do we take the candidate we have and make sure she beats Trump. The vast majority of all progressives want to beat Trump in the end. Tell me how you think we can make that happen.