Bernie backers sue to toss out mailed in ballots in CA primary. Tossed out and re done.

[fun n serious]

Bernie backers want all mail in ballots tossed out and re done. These are mostly Hillary supporters and he knows that. How is this democratic?

The release continued, "The activists are seeking sweeping injunctive relief in their suit, including provisions to force 58 counties to segregate ballots already cast by unaffiliated voters; to allow "re-votes" by those voters for presidential primary candidates; and to extend the state's voter registration deadline -- which passed on May 23 for eligibility to vote in the June 7 primary -- until election day itself."



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-supporters-file-emergency-injunction-calif-primary/story?id=39419096

[MohRokTah]

1. HE's using right wing Republican tactics here to overturn the will of the people.

Sanders is attempting ELECTION FRAUD!!!!!!!

If' they get to scream it, I'm starting first.

[fun n serious]

2. He is so disgraceful

smh.

[floppyboo]

17. Sanders isn't doing this nt

[fun n serious]

21. This attitude has been the way his campaign has been running

all this whole time. Scream rigged while trying to rig. If it's not him but his backers.. still this sentiment comes with his campaign

[floppyboo]

36. Ya, so? I'd rather be called a democrat than a racist, homophobe, misogynist.

[imagine2015]

12. And Bernie Sanders is a gangstar leading right-wing racist communist mobs against Hillary voters!

You forgot to mention that!

[JimDandy]

55. Clinton *actually* used right wing tactics to overturn the will of the people

in Nevada. She engineered the UNPRECEDENTED last minute, new rule to throw out ALL Nevada delegate votes at every single Nevada County Convention.

Bernie, on the other hand, is trying to help Non-Party Preference voters in CA who were not provided a Democratic ballot. While Hillary voters are more likely to have declared themselves Democrats and received a Democratic ballot, some of them undoubtedly are NPP voters too, and will be the beneficiaries of Sanders' lawsuit.

[ucrdem]

65. No, that's a completely false narrative. Clinton won the vote and the delegates. The disruption

did not come from Clinton delegates.

[JimDandy]

69. Did you even read my post? That unprecedented rule to make every vote

null and void from the 2nd tier of the Democratic process was PROPOSED by the Clinton camp because they were pissed Sanders won the delegates at that level.

UNPRECEDENTED!!

And not just in NV. No Democratic state party in the entire US has ever thrown out all the legitimate delegate votes from one level in order to favor the candidate who won the initial caucus.

[ucrdem]

71. There's no excuse for what went down in Nevada and no excuse for this nuisance lawsuit. nt

[ucrdem]

66. For a long time I found the Sanders campaign tolerable if wrongheaded but once it hits home

it's a lot harder to maintain polite objectivity.

[Renew Deal]

3. It's not election fraud when Bernie does it.

[fun n serious]

5. This attempt of his is completely disgusting.

Disenfranchising voters while claiming disenfranchisement. WOWZA!!

[floppyboo]

18. He's not doing it. nt

[Iliyah]

4. Thats insane.

[geek tragedy]

6. that's not Bernie Sanders, just some looney tunes 'supporters' of his.

His campaign didn't file that suit.

Just some nutty randos in Cali.

Sanders has not issued a statement on the matter.

[JoePhilly]

13. I wonder what his DU name is?

[geek tragedy]

14. I'm sure there's more than one, including "name removed" nt

[scscholar]

7. I read here that ssome of the CA bbballllots ddidnn't have his name on themm

He should do this.

[Retrograde]

20. The Republican ones certainly don't

and neither do the non-partisan unless the voter requested a Democratic mail-in ballot. And if those voters didn't send them in already, there are ways to get them exchanged - see here. But once you cast your vote, that's it. Note that all this concerns mail ballots: people who vote in person on election day shouldn't have encountered any problems yet.

Hmm, I'm having second thought about one of my downballot votes: can I ask for a do-over too?

[gollygee]

8. The subject line is inaccurate

Bernie Sanders isn't doing this.

[Darb]

9. I've seen this before.

It isn't Bernie's campaign, it is just his "supporters" who are using right-wing tactics and talking points.

Gotta hand it to the bernies.

[LenaBaby61]

22. Okay ....

I was saying this would have been ridiculous if it had come from Bernie Sanders. Good to know that these people filing this emergency injunction are "fringe" voters

In that case, this injunction should be thrown out.

[lagomorph777]

10. Turns out the city attorney is lying about the nature of the suit.

Of course, you'd have seen that if you'd read the whole article.

Bill Simpich, one of the San Francisco-based lawyers representing the group, said, "The main relief we are asking for is for the independent voters -- non-party preference or NPP -- to be able to vote for president on June 7 without tying up the voting lines and avoiding a situation of mass confusion.”

“We are asking the judge for an order that the poll workers be trained to inform voters that NPP voters have a separate presidential ballot rather than the voter having to ask for one, and that PSAs be sent out to all voters about how to vote NPP given the incorrect mandatory notices mailed out by government officials across the state, and to ensure that there are enough ballots for everyone to vote,” he told ABC News.

"We believe the City Attorney is confused about what the problems are: 50 percent of the NPP voters want to vote Democratic. As of May 24, only 14 percent of them have received their ballots. Half to 2/3 of the whole state votes by mail. Hundreds of thousands of votes at stake. The deadline to have the elections officials mail your ballot to you is May 31."

[fun n serious]

11. He is not confused.

This is election fraud. To toss out ballots that have already voted?!

[lagomorph777]

37. That's the lie part

The suit is not asking for that.

[riversedge]

63. This law suit is out of bounds and any sane judge will toss it. IMHO

[LenaBaby61]

15. I've already voted by mail...

MANY Californians like myself have voted by mail already, and now our votes aren't supposed to count--we need to do a vote-over: Per Sanders/his supporters? So, the laws and rules of the state should be changed in the middle of the stream just to accommodate Bernie and his supporters?

This ridiculous emergency injunction should be thrown out, and doesn't waste more tax-payer monies.

[fun n serious]

16. Yep

They yell the system is rigged and want to cheat! This attitude has been part of the campaign all season.

[floppyboo]

19. Read the link. You are not affected.

[fun n serious]

27. The link says they want a RE DO

[floppyboo]

34. I read 'segregate' the NPP write ins. Can you cut and paste what you are reading?

[floppyboo]

35. from the article:

The release continued, "The activists are seeking sweeping injunctive relief in their suit, including provisions to force 58 counties to segregate ballots already cast by unaffiliated voters; to allow "re-votes" by those voters for presidential primary candidates; and to extend the state's voter registration deadline -- which passed on May 23 for eligibility to vote in the June 7 primary -- until election day itself."
snip
“We are asking the judge for an order that the poll workers be trained to inform voters that NPP voters have a separate presidential ballot rather than the voter having to ask for one, and that PSAs be sent out to all voters about how to vote NPP given the incorrect mandatory notices mailed out by government officials across the state, and to ensure that there are enough ballots for everyone to vote,” he told ABC News.

"We believe the City Attorney is confused about what the problems are: 50 percent of the NPP voters want to vote Democratic. As of May 24, only 14 percent of them have received their ballots. Half to 2/3 of the whole state votes by mail. Hundreds of thousands of votes at stake. The deadline to have the elections officials mail your ballot to you is May 31."

Sanders has not issued a statement on the matter.


I can't find what you're complaining about.

[brooklynite]

23. If fairness, this is not Sanders campaign's doing...

...what IS the Sanders campaign's doing is allowing their supporters to pretty much do whatever they want in support of the campaign, which they then have to clean up the mess of (see: calling up and harassing Superdelegates)

[fun n serious]

25. The attitude of this suit is what we have seen in the campaign all this time.

[JonLeibowitz]

28. It would be convenient for HRC supporters to file this suit then, to feed your talking points more

[fun n serious]

29. What?

[KingFlorez]

24. This is nothing but undemocratic trickery

What is the justification for throwing out votes? I'd love to see this explained away.

[Nye Bevan]

26. Lots of replies saying it's not Sanders doing this.

But has he disavowed these tactics?

[fun n serious]

30. No he has not.

[Brother Buzz]

33. Not yet. But if the Nevada 'dust up' is a valid indicator

He'll wait three or four news cycles before he responds.

[forjusticethunders]

31. It may not be Sanders doing it

But as usual he'll dodge any kind of responsibility for the nuts who act in his name. "Revolution" I guess. He may not be a socialist, but he sure seems to like Stalinist tactics.

[Sheepshank]

32. Sanders has fostered an environment of litigating almost every election result.

what difference does it make when it's the Sanders team that does it later, or a surrogate that does it now?

[Mnpaul]

38. California does have a problem

and they should fix it

At issue is whether voters understand the rules for the presidential primary, which differ from those governing other elections in California.

Unlike statewide primaries — where voters now choose any candidate, no matter the political party — the presidential contests are controlled by the parties themselves. Democrats have opened up their primary between Hillary Clinton and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders to voters that have no political affiliation, known in California as having "no party preference."

The suit focuses on whether "no party preference" voters who intend to cast ballots by mail understand they can ask for a ballot from one of the three parties that allow them to cross over and participate in the race for president: the Democratic Party, the Libertarian Party, and California's American Independent Party.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-bernie-sanders-supporters-lawsuit-california-voter-confusion-20160522-snap-story.html

One set of ballot rules for state elections and another for the Presidency?

[Retrograde]

39. It's what the voters wanted

the current system of open primaries for everything other than president was put in place via a ballot proposition in 2010 election, so it's not exactly new. It's had the unintended (unintended because the proposition was pushed as a sop to get the GOP to approve a state budget) of sometimes having 2 candidates from the same party running for a seat in November - and we may see Kamala Harris and Loretta Sanchez both running for senate in November.

The notion of parties deciding who can vote in their primaries goes back even further, and has differed by election: sometimes the GOP let NPP voters participate, sometimes the Democrats (each of the 6 recognized parties gets to decide for each election). The same process for NPP voters was used in 2012 and 2008 and IIRC 2004, which no one complaining now seems to remember.

[calm_thinker]

68. looking at a NPP Mail in ballot right now....

and according to the current mail in ballot received yesterday, I could not mail in and vote for any presidential candidate in the California primary. Its not on the ballot at all. No Hillary, No Bernie, No write in, No nuthin....

From the actual insert with the NPP ballot.

As a nonpartisan voter, you have received an official ballot with just the nonpartisan contests. You will not find the contest for U.S. President. However, State law permits you to request and vote the ballot for any party that allows it

For this election, you may request one of the following party's ballots:
American Independent Party (you can vote all (AIP) Presidential candidates)
Democratic Party (you can vote all (DEM) Presidential candidates)
Libertarian Party (you can vote all (LIB) Presidential candidates)

If you wish to vote the enclosed nonpartisan ballot, please follow the instructions for marking and returning your ballot.

If you wish to select one of the three party ballots:
You may return your non partisan ballot to the Registrar of Voters office and request one of the three party ballots;
You may surrender your nonpartisan ballot and mail ballot envelope at the polls on Election Day and request one of the three party ballots;
You may indicate your choice of party ballot on the application located on the back cover of your nonpartisan sample ballot and information pamphlet and mail the application to <snip>, email to rovmail@<snip> or fax to <snip>

I could see where this has potential to cause issues for folks normally used to mail in.

[SpareribSP]

40. Pretty sure you got this completely wrong.

Nothing is getting tossed out, he's trying to make sure that independents get a chance to vote because it seems the current system confused a lot of voters. Read what you wrote - it's literally just trying to make it easier for people to vote. It also affects NPP voters, not Hillary voters, and you're wrong about mail-ins in Calfornia - it's the generally preferred method to vote there.

They're trying to fight disenfranchisement (as he always has done) and you accuse him of disenfranchisement. Astounding, hateful propaganda.

[ucrdem]

41. Nothing they can do at this point would "avoid confusion" or help anyone vote.

California is a big state and the election is well under way. This is ridiculous.

[SpareribSP]

46. They are literally suing

To provide more training to help avoid confusion, because a lot of people don't know you have to request a crossover ballot.

I'll agree the mail-in revote is probably going too far, but do you really want to have NPP voters unable to vote because the rules aren't clear? Don't argue to me that they are - the numbers show that a large chunk of people don't understand them, so they haven't been communicated properly.

[ucrdem]

47. Voting in California has always been complicated.

But there's always been a very healthy Voter Information guide sent out well in advance of every election I've voted in. This year, it's in color! I don't think the SoS can be faulted for not making the procedures as transparent as they're going to get. The website is also helpful. This lawsuit is pure bullshit and frankly sounds like a RW stunt.

[SpareribSP]

48. Many of the new NPP voters

Are younger, and may not have gotten that guide, or not understood. Excuses or no, a very large number of people seem to have screwed up their ballot. Please don't call trying to help people vote a right wing stunt.

[ucrdem]

49. If they wanted to "help" the time was before the election. Not during. nt

[SpareribSP]

50. The statistics came out as people got their ballots, though.

Agreed that they should have been anticipated beforehand, it could have been handled better.

[ucrdem]

53. Where would this group get these figures? This is a pure nuisance suit

per the description at the ABC link. Oddly enough I've seen this tactic used before but I won't say by whom so as to avoid a hide. Fortunately the SF DA says he's going to vigorously fight it.

[SpareribSP]

56. It's not really shocking

http://capitolweekly.net/ca120-confusion-lurks-primary-california/

Did a survey for instance where only 42% of people correctly identified how the system works, and the comment section seems full of confused Californians. With numbers of people voting by mail more than tripling since 2008, it seems like a recipe for disaster that overwhelming seems to target groups like young Latinos. Democrats want these people in the party and want them to vote

[ucrdem]

58. It is ridiculous. So Team Bernie found some rule that doesn't favor him

and decides to go to law instead of just getting the word out to his alleged armies of fans? What kind of leadership is that?

[SpareribSP]

61. This isn't Bernie doing it, it's some supporters

And the fact we're talking here right now does mean word is getting out, because it already reached out this far. It's very unlikely that they'll get a ruling in their favor, but despite that, it still might help people learn how to fix their ballot. If the result is more people who are eligible to vote voting, can you really argue against it?

[ucrdem]

62. Bernie was asked to comment for the ABC piece and did not. At the very least he's aware of it. nt

[ucrdem]

64. p.s. you ask can I argue against it. YES. I resent it and hope the electorate repays the favor. nt

[Retrograde]

42. I'm a California NPP voter

and I can assure you that there are NPP voters who are also Hillary voters. Moreover, I've been an NPP voter since moving to this address in 1986, and the process has not greatly changed over the years. Whether to let NPP voters vote in a party primary is decided by each party for each election, as it was in 2012 and before (we didn't have party-specific elections for state-wide offices in 2014).

I think this lawsuit is more about someone deciding that some newly registered voters who didn't read the information at the SoS website, or in the sample ballots sent to all voters, or who were recently signed up by the Sanders campaign didn't realize what they were doing and that Sanders is now in danger of not getting some votes in what has become a much closer election than expected.

Some things being overlooked:
-NPP voters who vote by mail and have not sent back their ballots and who want one for a different party can get one, if that party allows it. See the SoS website for more information
-NPP voters who want to vote in person can do so on June 7, or go down to their county's early voting location[s]. They can request a Democratic, AIP or Libertarian ballot then.
-this doesn't apply at all to voters who registered with a party
-if voters don't read the voting materials provided by the state and counties, how are they going to make an informed decision on the other items on the ballot? The California primary covers more than just president.

What galls me the most about this lawsuit is the notion that some voters should be allowed a second ballot.

[SpareribSP]

45. I'm not arguing that.

There are absolutely NPP Hillary voters, and I agree the second ballot is a bit strange. However, that characterization that this is a ploy to disenfranchise Hillary voters is flat out wrong. It's to give people who didn't read the rules closely a second chance (which seems like a large number) which you can argue at its own merits.

[KingFlorez]

57. Changing the rules a week before the election is nuts

That would put county clerks in an impossible position. If votes are set aside and re-votes ordered, there is no way to get new ballots out to those who have already voted before June 7th. The counties have already authorized the funding for the primary and a re-vote would require each county Board of Supervisors to release funds to print up more ballots and send them out to voters. If there are people who did not register in time to vote or request the ballot of their choice, then that is too bad, because the window was big enough for everyone to get their registration worked out.

No judge is ever going to rule in favor of this, because it is crazy.

[SpareribSP]

59. Yeah, the re-vote isn't happening

But at least it's bringing attention to the problem, and hopefully some people will see this and learn there options of how to get a proper ballot.

I'm more just frustrated at people trying to paint this as disenfranchisement, which it obviously isn't.

[ucrdem]

60. It sets up the narrative that the system is rigged and gets people riled up for Philly.

As a Californian I really, really resent this kind of disruption.

[beachbumbob]

43. Appalling sense of entitlement and rules don't apply to us by sanders and his

followers....total self absorb...embarrasses democrats and America...

[okasha]

44. This sure does send a message.

"Sanders voters want a do-over that disenfranchises the whole state because they couldn't be bothered to check out the rules and procedures for the election."

That should send the remaining SDs stampeding into Hillary's camp. Between this idiocy and the will he/won't he Sanders/Trump debate, the Sanders campaign has descended ftom soap opera to farce.

Hit the damn gong, somebody.

[Mz Pip]

51. I mailed in my ballot last week.

I don't see why I should be required to do it over.

[Agnosticsherbet]

52. So they are going to disenfranchise voters. That's so

Republican.

There is no way this should be approved by a judge.

[AtomicKitten]

54. I'll just leave this here for you.

McAuliffe veto opens polls for Hillary Clinton ‘ghost voters’
http://watchdog.org/209092/hillary-ghost-voters/

RICHMOND, Va. — Plowing the ground for Hillary Clinton’s presidential bid, Gov. Terry McAuliffe vetoed an election-reform bill that leaves a gaping hole for absentee-ballot abuse in Virginia.

<snip>

Vote-by-Mail and Absentee Ballots Disproportionately Favor Hillary Clinton by Almost 3 to 1
http://sweetremedy.tv/electionnightmares/archives/322

One consistent, unsettling outcome among recent state Democratic primaries is the vote-by-mail or absentee ballots that favor Hillary Clinton by 3 to 1. Absentee or vote-by-mail ballots (often referred to as early voting) have been difficult to monitor and are conducive to ballot harvesting or ballot stuffing. Elections researcher John Brakey of AUDIT AZ has compiled data he had requested from key voting precincts in Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Missouri and Massachusetts. All of these states show roughly the same early ballots ratio of 3 to 1 in favor of candidate Hillary Clinton over rival Bernie Sanders, who even won Michigan despite this advantage.

<snip>

Like the disparity between machine counted ballots and hand counted ballots, this anomaly by itself doesn’t prove actual fraud, but it does warrant hand counted audits of early ballots separated by precinct, especially when exit polls, which include early ballots, indicate that Bernie Sanders should have won Massachusetts..

Change Urged for Nursing-Home Voters
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/15/politics/campaign/change-urged-for-nursinghome-voters.html?_r=0

<snip>

Many elderly people, especially those in long-term care, use absentee ballots, which -- unless supervised by election officials -- are the type of voting most susceptible to fraud.

The recommendations have two purposes, the authors say. The first is to prevent fraud by political groups that would take advantage of patients with dementia by completing their absentee ballots, telling them what to fill in or accompanying them into the voting booth and casting votes for them.

Workers for a party or a candidate who show up at a nursing home to "assist" with voting can accomplish "wholesale fraud," essentially stealing a bloc of votes, said Pamela S. Karlan, a law professor at Stanford University and an author of the journal article. That kind of fraud can have a big impact on small local elections where voter turnout is low, Ms. Karlan said.

<snip>

In 1998, a former Democratic congressman from Pennsylvania, Austin Mruphy, was convicted of absentee ballot fraud in a nursing home, where residents' failing mental capacities make them an easy mark.

http://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990525murphy6.asp

Hillary is Targeting Nursing Homes With Absentee Ballots
http://rebrn.com/re/hilary-is-targeting-nursing-homes-with-absentee-ballot-papers-we-2540795/

JAbsentee ballot fraud centered in nursing homes, ALFs
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/julien-absentee-ballot-fraud-centered-nursing-homes-alfs

[Tavarious Jackson]

72. It looks like he want to disenfranchise people

[Tarc]

67. So this is yet another "I can't figure out the rules so make it easy for me" lawsuit?

[GulfCoast66]

70. Who are the low information voters?

Seems like Clinton voters have all the info they need to vote.

Perhaps if so many of your supporters were not kids who have always had mom or dad's help it would not be an issue.

[beaglelover]

73. Fuck you Bernie!