If Clinton supporters had a smidgen of sense....

[cali]

They don't.

Try being a gracious winner.

From 2008:

Maybe it's time to ratchet it back, Obama supporters.

If you're really confident that Obama will be the nominee, relax. Let
the crap flow by, and avoid nasty attacks on Clinton. I'm not talking
about reasoned criticism; that's a different story.

I really do believe that Obama is pretty much inevitable, and that the
end is in sight. And we're going to need to come together to beat
McCain.

Imagine if things were reversed. It's painful for a lot of Hillary
supporters, just as it would be for a lot of Obama supporters. By
moving away from gratuitious attacks on Hillary, we can start to
shift the dynamic.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5431076

[upaloopa]

1. Why does your side feel it can dictate to the rest of us? You intimidate people, you demand that

we make concessions. Bernie wants to tell Hillary who to pick for a VP. Bernie wants to run the convention.

You represent a small part of the November electorate. The majority of all Dems will vote for Hillary.

I don't think most people care about your threats anymore.

[JoePhilly]

3. The self-appointed high priests of liberalism get to pronounce ...

... their judgement on the rest of us as they please.

And by not accepting their judgement, it is you who have attacked them.

[Bjorn Against]

4. No one can dictate to you, you can continue to do what you do and watch Clinton lose

You need more than the majority of Democrats to win the general election, you need independents as well. If independents listen to the crap you and other Hillary supporters have been spreading it will turn them away for her.

If you don't mind chasing voters away from your candidate then keep doing what you are doing, but people with your attitude will be at fault when she loses.

[cali]

6. I'm not dictating anything. I'm contrasting my position

when I was on the winning side to people like you.

[pinebox]

11. "You represent a small part of the November electorate."

Oh? Tell me more please seeing as how I'm an indy voter who makes up a LOT more of the voting block than Dem voters do.

The majority of Dems will vote for Hillary? Too bad the majority of the electorate won't. Dem only support means a Hillary loss in a general and we've been telling you all this for ages. Hillary does NOT have the indy vote at all and cross over support is right along side with it.

Threats? I call it reality.

[Demsrule86]

32. Like your candidate

You suffer from an exaggerated sense of self-importance. The choices are Trump and Clinton...if you fail to pick Clinton then you are for Trump..that is how it goes. It is of course your choice.

[pinebox]

71. There are more than 2 running.

Sorry. My vote is my own.

[okasha]

47. In another thread,

you were having hysterics at the idea of Hillary drawing Republican voters. Stats are showing that about 20% of all R and R-leaning voters will vote for Hillary. The percentage of R :women is likely to be higher.

It really isn't going to matter that you and your buds are effectively supporting Trump. He's going to lose because "the American people almost always get it right."

[Lizzie Poppet]

52. It's because of WHY she draws Republican voters (obviously...).

That that "why" is this: she's an economic center-rightist. Need I say more?

[okasha]

60. Obviously.

That "why" is Donald Trump.

Even hardcore conservatives recognize the danger he represents. Why supposedly liberal supposed Democrats do not recognize it is a puzzle, especially since many of them were recently shouting hosannas at Sanders'supposed ability to draw in this very demographic.

But since it's Hillary who has done this , it's evil. Hypocracy, much?

[Lizzie Poppet]

61. Can't say I ever saw those "hosannas."

Anyone who ever claimed Bernie would be a better at drawing Republicans (even those elusive "moderate" ones) needs to put down the bong for a while. I've never seen such a claim. The only moderates I see Bernie doing better than Hillary with are the independent ones whose disgust with the establishment status quo is greater than their dislike for far-left policies. And I think that's a sizable segment...

But the only segment of the Republican electorate I can see considering the Democratic candidate are those who are virulently anti-Trump...and for that segment to prefer Bernie to Hillary in any significant numbers just doesn't make sense.

[okasha]

64. Of course you won't say that.

It remains a fact.

I think you might want to think your second paragraph through a little more closely.

It "doesn't make sense" for the "virulently anti-Trump" to prefer Sanders over Hillary? Perhaps you're right, and Trump's and Sanders' most vocal supporters have a lot in common.

[Lizzie Poppet]

65. I say it because it's true.

If you're implying I'm lying about that, you can go fuck yourself (go ahead and alert...I'd respond to anyone accusing me of lying in the same manner; that's an unforgivable insult). If you're saying it because you've seen such statements, then fine...I have no reason to doubt your word.

There is indeed one common thread between Trump and Sanders supporters: dissatisfaction with the status quo. I see Trump supporters as being absolutely correct in that assessment: the status quo is utterly toxic. They just have a very, very misguided take on what to do about it.

[riderinthestorm]

23. Then don't make nice. Example #3000 why party unity this cycle will be impossible

Good luck with that tactic.

[hrmjustin]

31. Well said!

[HassleCat]

34. We already know why your side dictates to our side.

Because your side wins, and winning is all that counts, and it's been that way for 30 years, and it's ruined our party. We are now the minority party at every level of government, from Congress, to governors' offices, to county commissioners, etc. But we win the presidency sometimes, and we're happy with that. Since the presidency is all we can win, we focus on that, and pay little attention to anything else, so whoever is running for president gets to tell our party what to do. Some of us are getting a little tired of letting the tail wag the dog, but we have resigned ourselves to letting your side dictate to our side one more time. We're certainly looking forward to 2018 and 2020, though. Your ability to dictate to us is about to diminish.

[vintx]

36. This. nt

[mountain grammy]

55. +1 and thanks. Well said.

[Buzz cook]

58. Maybe you should try winning

It does have its rewards.

Heck there is a rich field of down ticket liberals that could change this election in a way that Sanders never could. You personally Hasslecat could make the difference between a liberal congress or city counsel.

Try winning for a change.

[HassleCat]

62. It would be nice.

Unfortunately, we have decided the way to win is to run a bunch of not-quite-Republicans for various offices. I am campaigning for those candidates who seem interested in being Democrats, not just winning elections. The party can do what it wants, and I will choose to participate in those activities that appear to honor Democratic values.

[jeff47]

41. And when not having our votes causes your candidate to lose

You will surely come back and say "I was wrong" instead of shouting "SANDERS!!" like you've shouted "NADER!!" for the last 16 years.

[Fawke Em]

42. No. YOUR side has been dictating Bernie's demise since before Iowa.

You're demanding that we support a lying, corrupt candidate under criminal investigation by the FBI or "Trump."

Garbage.

BTW, I don't care if "most" Democrats will vote for her. 70-80 percent of 30 percent of the electorate doesn't win elections.

[vintx]

49. "70-80 percent of 30 percent of the electorate doesn't win elections."

They're counting on republican votes.

They are convinced she'll win because republicans will vote for her.

Therefore, we're all off the hook!

So if she loses to Trump, they should be blaming the republican voters for not voting for her.

[hopemountain]

59. wrong. clinton supporters could be gracious

winners or losers - either way. it would sure go a long way to unite the working class, the youth vote, and voters like myself with the rest of the party.

bernie isn't telling hillary whom to pick as her vp - should she be the nominee. he is telling her that to unite the party behind her and to have our support, - the vp candidate must appeal to the working class electorate. the vp must be someone who will stick to the progressive platform if she expects to win votes - not just from bernie's supporters - but from trump's independent and working class voters. that's politics.

[JoePhilly]

2. Careful up on that high horse ... you'll get a nose bleed.

I must say that I'm very impressed as to how easily you can insult every single Clinton supporter on DU while simultaneously wagging your finger in their faces about how it is they who need to "ratchet it back".

Talk about a lack of self-awareness.

[NurseJackie]

9. This. Yes. Thank you!

[cali]

12. I wrote that in 2008.

[JoePhilly]

19. I don't see the same insult in the original.

But the finger wagging is definitely recognizable.

[MineralMan]

5. This is very interesting.

The attacks on Hillary Clinton and her supporters have been non-stop here and elsewhere on the Internet. And now you think that it is Hillary supporters who should scale back. I don't think that makes any sense at all.

The primaries are almost done. Soon, we will know who our nominee will be with certainty. Clinton supporters will continue to support her if, as expected, she becomes the nominee. That's what we've been doing all along. I wouldn't expect any changes in that support. Most of us who support Hillary hope that Sanders supporters will join us in helping to elect the Democratic nominee.

Some may not join in that effort. I suspect that little time will be wasted debating with them further, frankly. I know I won't be doing that, in any case. There will be an election to win. That's going to take a big, coordinated effort. I hope you will join us in working to elect a Democrat as President in 2016. I truly do.

[cali]

7. And in 2008, the attacks on Obama from Clinton supporters here

were non stop. But once I knew he had it, I backed off. Not just for strategic reasons but because I understood how painful it was for her supporters here.

It's called empathy.

[Bjorn Against]

10. Attacks on Bernie and his supporters have been nonstop

If Bernie were winning then Bernie supporters would need to put in the work to mend fences.

Unless a miracle happens however it unfortunately does not look like Bernie is going to win this so us Bernie supporters really don't need Hillary supporters.

You do need us if you want to win however, and with the bridges that have been burned by Brock and his minions it is going to be very difficult to win us over.

If you have no interest in at least making an effort to mend fences that is your choice, but don't try to blame anyone else when she loses.

[MineralMan]

15. I assume that all thinking people will understand that

defeating Donald Trump will be the primary priority. I suppose there may be some people who won't recognize that. Nothing I can do will have any effect on them, so I'm not going to waste my time.

I'll be working along with everyone else to defeat Trump. I'll never look back at anything anyone has said previously, it they're willing to join in that fight. Common goals will mend any fences that may need mending, I'm sure. Those who don't share those goals are not my concern. Simple thought processes will be sufficient to bring most into the shared battle.

What we need is a simple majority in enough states to get past the 270 elector hurdle. I think we can do that just fine with the combined forces of people who recognize who the better candidate will be.

My goal has always been the same - electing the democratic nominee in November. As I've said dozens of times, I'll be working hard for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is. I can't imagine any other course of action that makes any sense.

I hope you'll join the campaign to elect a Democrat as President. More than that I cannot offer.

[Bjorn Against]

21. I will vote for a candidate who I can trust

I don't trust either Trump or Clinton and the actions of the Clinton campaign continue to erode my trust further.

I know that I am not alone in this, the majority of Americans do not trust her. The only reason she has any chance of winning at all is that Trump is even less trustworthy.

Many people are realizing however that Trump and Clinton are not the only names on the ballot, people don't have to choose between two terrible candidates if they don't want to.

[MineralMan]

25. OK. Then you will probably not play a role in the November decision, really.

So, I'm afraid I'll have little to say to you after the nominee is known. Regardless of votes for third party candidates, the Presidency will be decided by the majority of those who vote for either the Democrat or the Republican. We each have one vote. I plan to use mine to make sure Donald Trump does not move into the White House.

You will do as you think best. However, if you advocate for voting for a third party candidate, I'm afraid you won't be able to do it here, so I won't be replying to your posts after the final primary election.

A number of people will no longer be here on DU. Some will be those who advocating that people vote for other than the Democratic nominee. Some may well be people who took advantage of the admin's amnesty and continued to post things that got their posts hidden. There are some on both sides who now have hidden posts exposed in their transparency in double digits. I don't know the admins' plans for those people.

There are others who have made a habit of looking for and posting any negative information they could find, regardless of source, against one or the other candidate. If they continue to do that, they, too will also probably lose their posting privileges.

In the end, DU will return to a website that seeks to promote the election of Democrats to office. That's its stated goal. I will be here doing that. I will be here to fight the election of one of the worst possible Republican choices I can remember, and I remember all of them since my first presidential election in 1968.

My goal is electing Democrats to all levels of government. That has not, and will not change.

Do what you think best. Whether we exchange comments, however, may depend on you. I'll be here.

[Bjorn Against]

37. Yes, I am aware that people like you are looking forward to tearing the party in half

I have voted Democratic in many elections, but now I know that a number of Democrats want to push me away completely and ban me from participating on this site because there is one candidate who I can not vote for.

I recognize that myself and many others may be banned from this site soon. I just hope the people who advocate this banning realize that they are damaging the party.

I may not march in blind loyalty and support 100% of the Democratic nominees, but I do support Democrats over 90% of the time.

If 90% support is not good enough for you then go ahead and cheer when people like me get banned, just realize that you are cheering the loss of Democratic votes. If the party shows me that they don't want me then I will give the Greens an opportunity to win my support and I suspect they won't push me away like the Democrats are currently doing.

[vintx]

50. The New Dems have been triangulating this party towards the right for decades now.

If the DNC succeeds in handing this election to another Clinton, they are basically inviting us on the left to shut up or get the fuck out, and should that happen I will be only too happy to change my registration immediately.

[yallerdawg]

51. You won't get banned if you end the indiscriminate Hillary Hate.

Surely you can find something to hate about Trump?

[Bjorn Against]

63. Accusing me of "indiscriminate Hillary hate" proves you don't want my vote

If you are unwilling to listen to my concerns about Hillary and dismiss them as hate you are not going to win my vote. When your candidate loses because too many people are alienated from the party I hope you recognize how attitudes like yours contributed to her loss.

[yallerdawg]

68. The thing is...

when Hillary is the Democratic nominee, DU comes together for one purpose - to elect Hillary!

You are more than welcome to any other alternative opinion - just not promoting another candidate or bashing the only one we have HERE.

After Hillary defeats Trump - if Obama and Bill Clinton are any kind of DU example - apparently you can spend the next 8 years happily bashing Hillary!

Come on with us - it's only a couple months of ratcheting down.

[geek tragedy]

29. So you're going Nader. Enjoy your purity

But don't expect your refusal to help defeat Donald Trump to be treated with respect, as it deserves none.

[Demsrule86]

33. Really?

You mean like with Nader in 2000? I would think the Nader crowd would have learned something...you vote for anyone other than Hilary and you are on Trump's team...helping him...that includes Jill Stein (greens are dead to me after they gave us Bush in 2000. You skip voting for president ....same thing. You purity types never gain anything but just act as spoilers..so here is hoping we won't need you...because you talk about trust... but you certainly can't be trusted.

[Bjorn Against]

38. My vote is my vote, it is not your vote

I trust myself to vote for the candidate I think is best, I don't care if you don't trust me to vote for your candidate because you don't own my vote and I never promised my vote to you.

[Fawke Em]

43. Thinking people realize that both are horrible for the average American.

Trump is an egotistical bigoted buffoon who will cut taxes to the wealthy, further destroying the Middle Class, but he'll do it quickly.

Clinton is a corporate-owned war hawk who will gut Social Security so it can be handed to Wall Street while taking us to war with Iran. Her "pragmatism" will take longer, but will end up the same.

Sorry. I will NOT vote to kill myself.

[mythology]

53. A no true scotsman argument and massive over the top hyperbole

No, voting in the election, even voting for Trump, isn't the same as suicide. Actually making the comparison between the top is pretty offensive in my opinion.

[Hortensis]

44. +1000, MineralMan

Goal: Elect as many Democrats to office as possible so we can continue the start we made when we elected Obama in reversing the damage hard-core conservatism has done to our nation.

[hopemountain]

56. oops. sorry bjorn - reply to wrong poster....

[pinebox]

13. It's a 2 way street MM

I have seen Hillary supporters on DU scream catch phrases like "free stuff", "communist", "socialist" and I have seen disparaging remarks about too about how certain high profile BLM activist should be "whipped", how the Patriot Act was "a good thing" because Hillary voted for it and I have seen Bernie supporters being pushed in the mud about how they are "kids", "live in their parents basements", "have OCD", and how Bernie supporters "are terrorists".

I don't see a coming together because the ideologies are to far apart. Many Bernie supporters flat out don't trust Hillary.

[MineralMan]

18. You've not seen me saying any of those things.

I would not do so. I've supported one candidate for the nomination. Others have supported another. But my goal is to elect a Democrat as President and work to make the nominee's coattails bring along a majority of the Senate, increase our influence in the house and elect Democratic state legislators and other partisan electees.

After the primaries, the general election is the goal. That is what I have said, again and again.

[pinebox]

22. No I know you wouldn't

[Bluenorthwest]

16. DMX, chairs and bottles thrown and those photos? Not Bernie!

And did you know that Ronald Reagan was the first American with the courage to speak out about AIDS? That's what Hillary said. And her boosters were very comfortable with all of that.

No DMX, no chairs nor bottles, the photos were of Bernie and Reagan was the ultimate villain of the AIDS crisis.

[MineralMan]

20. Look back. Did I say anything about chairs?

Did I say anything in support of Ronald Reagan? Hillary Clinton walked that one back, anyhow. I know who Ronald Reagan was, with regard to AIDs and many, many other issues.

I did comment on bad behavior at the Nevada Convention, and I will not take that back. Calling Barbara Boxer a 'bitch' and trying to prevent speakers from speaking and disrupting the business of the Convention was enough of a violation of the rules of Decorum for me. According to those official rules of the Convention, all who participated should have been ejected. They were not, due to a hesitance to add flames to the fire.

I've been a Clinton supporter, but I've done none of those things. Instead, I have continually declared my plans to support the Democratic nominee, regardless of who prevailed at the convention. My intent has never changed in that regard.

Defeating Trump and electing a Democrat is my goal. It will continue to be. I hope you'll join with me in that. If you cannot, or will not, then we're not going to have anything to say to each other.

[BeyondGeography]

8. It's up to the candidates; the fan base on both sides follows their lead

at the end of the day; all but the dead-enders. Hillary in 2008 was IMHO more antagonistic than Bernie has been, but that changed fairly quickly and very dramatically leading up to the convention. He'll do it his way, which means he will be alternatively more irritating and more sincere. But most everyone who's worried about moving forward to the GE will be able to with more ease than they might presently imagine.

[Demsrule86]

35. And that makes you on Trumps team

If you prevail in your tantrum...hope you don't starve. Although you and the sort that act as you do certainly deserve it more than the rest of us.You do understand the GOP would have all three branches of government and the courts for a generation? We would have a trigger happy cretin (Trump) with his finger on the nuclear buttons...he has said it is just fine to use nukes by the way. I actually blame Bernie for much of this ...he knows he can't win and his insistence to pretend otherwise has lead to this nonsense. Bernie truly was the worst thing to happen to this election and if we win and I think we can...we do so in spite of his actions which were mostly deplorable.

[Hortensis]

45. The Kochtopus and Heritage Foundation team that

hopes to use Trump to further their goals.

Would Trump honor his promise to let the Heritage Foundation stack SCOTUS with hard-core conservatives? Let's never know.

[asuhornets]

17. What is up with the Sanders campaign self-righteousness? nt

[seabeyond]

24. You sure do spend a lot of time lecturing Clinton supports.

[oldandhappy]

26. Wanting participation and representation is sort of where we started in 1492.

[Trust Buster]

27. After constant vicious attacks, the losing candidate's supporters must lay down digital arms first.

[geek tragedy]

28. Be the change you want to see nt

[vintx]

30. Relax, cali, she's got this!

Hasn't it been expressed enough that she doesn't need our votes?

Well I believe her! She's not chasing my lefty vote, she's going after Republican donors, now. And you fucking know if she gets the nod, she'll start moving right to try to get conservative votes.

Oh this is going to be one hell of a campaign season!

[George II]

39. Here we go, digging way back to 2008 to try to prove a point (whatever it is) here in 2016.

cali, I AM a Clinton supporter and I have more than a smidgen of sense. For you to make that blanket (and false) statement takes TONS of chutzpah. You have no right to judge what amount of sense Clinton supporters have.

Why don't you address the Sanders supporters here the same way, you think they've been "gracious" since it became obvious that Sanders isn't going to win the nomination? Do you think the Sanders campaign has been "gracious" recently? Suing to get election laws in California changed a week or two before their primary? Insisting that co-chairs (yes, CO-chairs, Sanders has a chair, too!) on two Democratic committees be dismissed? Wasting money in Kentucky for a re-canvass that would only have made a difference of one delegate? And it goes on and on.

So, before we start getting lectures on being "gracious", let's see some "graciousness" from the Sanders side.

Thank you.

[Metric System]

40. Will Sanders be a gracious loser like Hillary was in 2008? His supporters sure are out of control.

[woolldog]

46. some hillarious posts by me on that thread.

Thanks for that link.

[NCTraveler]

48. You're stupid. Be nice.

Sums up nicely.

[grasswire]

54. they aren't that confident.

They've been hateful from the getgo.

[bravenak]

57. Nope Cali

The constant cries for her to be hauled off to prison are just way over the damn top. Calling her a killer with blood on her hands. Shillary. All the constant attack make it impossible to remain gracious. Time for you to tell your side to stop being sore losers. We will respond to attacks, noone has to suffer in silence with this must nastiness being lobbed.

I can try to be reasonable and attemp to shut down nonsense where I can, but you have to do your part and jump in when you see your side getting bitter and going off the rails.
These are politicians not romantic partners. The can do not wrong shit is stupid as fuck and you know this. Bernie aint perfect and neither is Hillary, in fact, I dont see much difference in their actual positions, they have a different idea of how to approach the same questions.

Once the deification of bernie subsides and people learn to let a slight against an imperfect human man go, and the complete demonization of Hillary ends, we will find that we can all get behind beating Donald. As long as one side wont stop calling for the worst of things to happen to an older woman, you know, like prison time, we WILL not STFU.

I can get my side to work together and we can make a deal to stop vetting Bernie, but your side would never commit so it is what it is.

Will only get worse until he concedes. I can try to help poo poo and extra stupid shit but are you guys gonna help get it through folks heads that calling for hillarys indictment is just helping Trump and that it is a dumb idea to think she will be arrested?

[Garrett78]

66. It's clear that the Clinton bashing *far* outweighs the Sanders bashing.

Any objective observer can see that. Not to mention all of the silly conspiracy theories and straw man arguments. It stands to reason that there's going to be pushback from Clinton supporters.

[bravenak]

70. Agreed

[Lizzie Poppet]

67. ...they wouldn't be Clinton supporters.

[jamese777]

69. Its just "primary election talk"

American primaries are for the most politically active and dedicated and with that comes passion.

The average voter could care less about 90% of what is discussed here. 40 million people or so will vote in primaries and caucuses. 135 million or so will vote in the general election.

In the election of 1800, the Thomas Jefferson campaign called John Adams someone who had a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

John Adams' campaign called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

And so it goes...