Know what amuses me about this email thing?

[bravenak]

I'll tell you. The very same people who defended Snowden and his illegal acts of theft of proprietary info are now calling for the ARREST and INCARCERATION of Hillary.

They say now that she BROKE THE LAW!!11!! Must face consequences. Needs to be put in handcuffs.

Funny. Him breaking laws while working and stealing info and taking it to other rival nations where it could be stolen or accessed by all and sundry was no problemo. Her violating rules demands she do life in the Federal Pen.

And somehow these selfsame folks claim integrity and purity. Such hypocrisy.

[w4rma]

1. What crimes did Clinton blow the whistle on with her e-mail server?

She put the server in her home, not to expose corruption, but to hide her own corruption from Freedom of Information Requests.

[rock]

9. Excellent deflection

I especially like the psychic knowledge added to juice it up!

[w4rma]

41. Hillary Clinton’s Energy Initiative Pressed Countries to Embrace Fracking, New Emails Reveal

Far from challenging fossil fuel companies, the emails obtained by The Intercept show that State Department officials worked closely with private sector oil and gas companies, pressed other agencies within the Obama administration to commit federal government resources including technical assistance for locating shale reserves, and distributed agreements with partner nations pledging to help secure investments for new fracking projects.

https://theintercept.com/2016/05/23/hillary-clinton-fracking/

[w4rma]

43. Hillary Clinton Pushes Colombia Free Trade Agreement In Latest Email Dump

Froman — a former Citigroup executive who as trade representative was lobbying for passage of the deal — responded by thanking Clinton for her "help and support.” Hormats, a former vice chairman of Goldman Sachs who subsequently was hired by Clinton at the State Department, later chimed in, telling her “terrific job” and “GREAT line on Columbian [sic] workers!!!!!”

http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clinton-pushes-colombia-free-trade-agreement-latest-email-dump-2326068

[MariaThinks]

81. what an irrelevant and predicatable response in line with the unreasoning hatred of Hillary.

[w4rma]

82. So, you believe that Hillary can do no wrong. Like a cult? (nt)

[MariaThinks]

127. there's a real difference between doing no wrong and doing wrong. I certainly don't believe hillary

does everything wrong.

[w4rma]

165. Sub sailor's photo case draws comparisons to Clinton emails

Last July, Saucier was indicted on one felony count of unlawful retention of national defense information and another felony count of obstruction of justice. He pleaded guilty Friday to the classified information charge, which is part of the Espionage Act, a prosecution spokesman confirmed. No charge of espionage was filed and no public suggestion has been made that he ever planned to disclose the photos to anyone outside the Navy.

The sailor now faces a maximum possible sentence of up to ten years in prison, but faced up to 30 years if found guilty on both charges. Federal guidelines discussed in court Friday appear to call for a sentence of about five to six-and-a-half years, although the defense has signaled it will seek a lighter sentence.
…
However, the Navy says the photos are classified “confidential,” which is the lowest tier of protection for classified information and is designated for information that could cause some damage to national security but not “serious” or “exceptionally grave” damage.

Intelligence agencies claim that Clinton’s account contained 65 messages with information considered “Secret” and 22 classified at the “Top Secret” level. Some messages contained data under an even more restrictive “special access program” designation.
…
However, Clinton’s critics and some former intelligence officials said she should have recognized the sensitivity of the information. They’ve also noted that about 32,000 messages on Clinton’s server were erased after her lawyers deemed them personal.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/kristian-saucier-investigation-hillary-clinton-223646

[treestar]

86. Transparency was the key

Since this made it easier, then it's all good. Or should be.

[w4rma]

102. It is my understanding that Clinton deleted more tha 30,000 e-mails, many of which

were related to official Secretary of State business.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-fbi-pulls-deleted-emails-from-hillary-clintons-server/

[Shemp Howard]

132. An excellent point there, w4rma! Intent matters.

Snowden and Hillary...their intentions were different, worlds apart.

I support an ambulance going over the posted speed limit in order to save a person's life. I do not support an ambulance going over the posted speed limit in order to get back to base before dark.

Each ambulance could certainly cause an accident. But they are not the same. Intent matters.

[Chasstev365]

2. This post makes NO sense!

[bravenak]

3. It makes perfect sense

They also dont care about the data theft from hillary's database

[rock]

14. Thanks Bravenak

I can't keep up with keeping the BSers straight.

[bravenak]

20. Me neither these days, lol

[melman]

134. Consider the source

[Chasstev365]

138. Ouch, is what I might have said in 5th Grade!

Get over yourself and your smug attitude

[hrmjustin]

4. Yes. It is amusing.

[bravenak]

6. I try not to laugh

But it is getting way way ridiculous

[hrmjustin]

8. I think some of it is peer pressure.

[bravenak]

12. Me too. A bubble

[seekthetruth]

5. Nothing amusing about this at all....and Snowdon was a whistleblower...

HUGE difference.....

We have millions of people who voted for someone who......

- broke the rules and lied about it
- sent classified information to a person WITHOUT a security clearance
- and supports policies that will continue to keep us at the mercy of neoliberalism (look the term up if you have to......)

.....and we're just concerned with who wins the contest vs. whose policies are what the country needs right now. I wonder how many of those people now would vote give the results of that report??

This email issue, I honestly agree, didn't matter at all to me, really, 8 or 9 months ago. But, having experience myself in handling top secret material in the military, it sickens me to think that Clinton is somehow above the rules. We're saying to every sailor, marine, airman, and soldier who has a clearance that the rules don't apply to the "higher ups".

It's just sad to see so many people on here not giving a damn about fairness when it comes to how serious everyone else who holds a clearance in government has to take their responsibilities.

[bravenak]

7. He STOLE

Not a whistleblower

[seekthetruth]

11. Then join the GOP....

...... because in the liberal sense.....you make no sense.

Oh wait, the Democratic Party is GOP-lite nowadays. Gotcha.

And I'm sure you thought getting involved in Libya was a good idea.

[bravenak]

26. A reprimand is all her violations merit

He still needs to be prosecuted for his crimes

[seekthetruth]

28. Like I said....

....if you can't tell the difference, then join the GOP.

[bravenak]

30. I am a democrat

The gop bashes Hillary and calls for her arrest

[redstateblues]

67. When BSS fails to counter a point they resort to their fave ad hom

They call us Republicans! They call lifelong Democrats that. So weak

[bravenak]

69. It is just projection

They need to get to the acceptance phase real soon here

[seekthetruth]

96. So tow the party line even when it's wrong?

No thanks.

[bravenak]

98. No. Don't burn down my own house is my thinking

[LP2K12]

55. Theft is generally allowable in the case of whistleblowing...

"But in a decision that stunned employment defense lawyers, the Labor Department’s Administrative Review Board (ARB) recently said an employee who took such information to support a whistleblower report may be protected from retaliation under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act (SOX)."

[bravenak]

56. Not when they take it out of the country and do not follow procedure!!!!

[LP2K12]

57. But wait...

Neither Clinton nor her staff followed procedure...

So we're arguing procedure now?

My intel experience tells me they were both wrong...

It also tells me she'll get away with a lot more than he did.

[bravenak]

59. She did not RUN AWAY to China abd Russia and allow access to the data purposefully!!

He RAN AWAY! Hid! Did not use national sources or proper channels to release any info. How do we know Putin did not make it a condition of his stay from him to allow access?
Hillary never took data to our enemy. It was investigated and she remained here rather than as he did which was to take flight.
We got the report and she has been properly chastised. Nothing more is happening. Yet people seem to think her evil for lax security and think NOTHING is wrong this guy who used his security clearance to get access to and steal our data to take it to poot Poot poot. They revile her who faced up to the consequences and defend him who stole and fled with our stuff! Hypocrites.

[ljm2002]

171. "We got the report and she has been properly chastised."...

..."Nothing more is happening."

First, glad you admit the report is NOT positive for Clinton. It certainly does chastise her.

Second, you say that nothing else is happening. So are you claiming there is not an ongoing FBI investigation?

We all know the IG report was not a report on the legalities of what Clinton did, it was an internal report concerning departmental processes and procedures and how they were, or were not followed and how they can be improved.

The FBI on the other hand, investigates potential criminal acts.

Who knows what they will conclude, certainly not me -- but something more definitely IS happening.

[LP2K12]

189. Thought you might enjoy this...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/30/politics/axe-files-axelrod-eric-holder/index.html

Former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder says Edward Snowden performed a "public service" by triggering a debate over surveillance techniques, but still must pay a penalty for illegally leaking a trove of classified intelligence documents.

"We can certainly argue about the way in which Snowden did what he did, but I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made," Holder told David Axelrod on "The Axe Files," a podcast produced by CNN and the University of Chicago Institute of Politics.

Illegal, but necessary. Bring him back and try him in court.

[bravenak]

190. He says he needs to be punished

[LP2K12]

191. Yes...

Hence why I said, "Illegal, but necessary. Bring him back and try him in court."

[floriduck]

177. I'm afraid following procedure has proven too many times to result in retribution or prosecution.

[bravenak]

179. Of course it does

That's how the system is. Imagine he was a black guy? I can imagine that many here calling him paul revere would be doing the opposite. It irritates me.

[dflprincess]

143. Daniel Ellsberg stole as well.

Whistleblower.

[bravenak]

144. Did he flee to China and Putin's Russia, too?

[Jitter65]

193. Snowden's revelations did actual harm and damage to US operations..so say the experts. nt

[treestar]

88. But what is wrong with breaking the law

if you think it is wrong? Should that not apply to Hillary as well as Eddie S?

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. LOLfuckingOL Here's a dollar, go buy a clue with it...

Snowden put a shit-ton of information in the public square...

Hillary tried to put a shit-ton of information where Jimmy Hoffa sleeps.

See the difference?

[AtomicKitten]

21. sunlight vs. secrecy

[840high]

72. .that^

[dchill]

109. But that's LOGIC. It has no place inside the bubble of idolatry.

Snowden is the opposite of Hillary.

[bobbobbins01]

13. Dumbest shit ever posted here.

And there has been some pretty dumb shit in the past.

[AtomicKitten]

53. !!!

[840high]

73. 'aye

[treestar]

91. non responsive

what is the difference? Why is national security suddenly so important? It didn't matter when Eddie wanted to pry, so why should it matter now?

[bobbobbins01]

140. Is that the new talking point?

That Edward Snowden did it so Hillary can too? Lets see, one was a whistleblower who tried to go through proper channels but was ignored, so he went to the press, and helped inform America about some shady shit the government was doing. The other ignored the proper channels, used a private server to avoid FOIA, exposed thousands of classified documents to potential hackers, and then tried to wipe her server when the feds found out.

Yeah, same fucking thing. Jesus Christ.

[ljm2002]

172. So how the Secretary of State handles sensitive information...

...as well as classified information, that pertains to national security, is not important?

By the way, this hypocrisy charge can be turned right around. Why is it that those people, including Secretary Clinton, who wanted to string Snowden up by the balls for potentially exposing national secrets, are A-Okay when the Secretary of State chooses to conduct all of her official State business on her own private, poorly secured server, thus ... wait for it ... potentially exposing national secrets and endangering national security? Why are they okay with a SOS who, after being EXPLICITLY WARNED about the security flaws of her Blackberry device, went on using it, even when in foreign countries? Is that really okay with you?

Physician, heal yourself.

[Thinkingabout]

15. There has been a few occasions like this, one should be imprisoned when a crime isnt committed

And other whom has committed crimes should not be charged. Or though no laws was enacted to charge the bankers they still want an investigation without a reason to investigate.

[bravenak]

23. It's all about anger

No substance

[seekthetruth]

25. Not about anger at all for me....

.... it's about keeping our elected officials accountable.

[bravenak]

29. And I want our NSA workers to not steal info and take it to other nations

Her violations of rules merits nothing more than a reprimand. He should be proscuted for his willful theft of government property.

[Thinkingabout]

77. I was reminded every year about espionage, he intentionally went to work in order to collect

Information. Now is time for consequences.

[bravenak]

78. And if he came back for trial, we'd see the same folks who are so law and order today

Say 'fuck laws' once he's behind bars and start calling for his release!

[tex-wyo-dem]

83. She violated a lot more than just rules. Nt

[bravenak]

85. So did he.nt

[tex-wyo-dem]

101. Yeah he did...so what's your point?

I tend to hold higher standards towards a high ranking POTUS cabinet official when it comes to properly handling government secrets than a low ranking contractor...but, hey, that's just me.

[bravenak]

103. He had security clearance. High standard applies to him as to her.

She stayed and faced the music, he ran to Russia and China. I give her benefit of doubt, he ran like a guilty man is wont to do.

[tex-wyo-dem]

106. He ran because the laws for protecting whistleblowers...

Had been reduced to jokes during the W admin. Many had there careers and lives destroyed for whistleblowing.

Hillary hasn't run because she thinks she can get away with it.

[bravenak]

107. Any excuse is good enough so long as it aint Hillary. Mm hmm

[tex-wyo-dem]

117. I'm not defending Snowden...He did break the law and...

Should face a court of law.

Hillary needs to do the same if evidence suggests she committed civil and/or criminal acts.

[bravenak]

119. She is already facing the music as we speak

No prosecution will occur

[tex-wyo-dem]

122. She broke laws...

If you think getting bad press is "facing the music" for crimes, then by your standards Snowden has already "paid his dues".

[bravenak]

124. She did not run away like a criminal

[tex-wyo-dem]

128. She's felt all along she will get out of it.

She didn't count on the emails that she supposedly deleted to be found again.

[HumanityExperiment]

16. ...private server thang...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-hillary-clinton-emails-private-server-20160526-story.html

[LP2K12]

17. So you don't understand...

the difference between whistle blowing for the protection of the country and breaking policy and procedure because someone didn't want her personal e-mails read?

Totally the same thing... right?

[seekthetruth]

18. Snowden isn't running for president....

.....SHE is. A huge difference.

Don't try to argue this...... please. You're going to seem foolish.

[bravenak]

22. The ones wailing for her indictment appear foolish

[seekthetruth]

24. Did you ever think the reprimand she received would ever happen either?

Or did you just trust what she was telling everyone?

[TwilightZone]

35. Actually, there's no difference.

If you're suggesting that rules and laws should be applied differently whether or not one is running for president, you should probably reconsider your position.

[treestar]

93. That one is ridiculous

the standards of obeying the law are the same for all people. You don't get to break the law just because you are not running for President. You don't end up being perfect just because you are.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. I do think if this is about FOIA and records-keeping laws, it is worth remembering

that IIRC Cheney did some shit like put all his stuff in a locked metal room that he proceeded to light on fire, or whatever.

Now, Cheney is hardly the bar I want our elected officials to aim for in terms of ethical behavior, however, it's worth remembering as this deal unfolds.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Trash thread

[George II]

31. Not only that, but perhaps if her emails were on the GOVERNMENT server, they might have...

...wound up in Beijing and Moscow.

Good thing she "broke the law"!

[bravenak]

34. She might have PREVENTED proprietary info from getting into the hands of China or Russia

I think people should thank her for her foresight

[grasswire]

38. okay, now I know that you have no intention of being honest about this.

Done here.

[bravenak]

42. Those calling her a killer are the dishonest ones as are those who want her imprisoned

[treestar]

95. you should break the law when it is the "right" thing to do

wonder why that's the standard Julian and Eddie are held to but the rest of us don't get that benefit !

[cherokeeprogressive]

112. To hear tell... NO emails were ever written or received by Hillary that were born classified.

So it's a moot point.

Apparently, Hillary did no State Department business by email. None. Nada. No trabajo via email.

[alittlelark]

32. Apples and screwdrivers....

... and I'm pretty sure rational people would see it as such.

[Sheepshank]

33. Now that you mention it...

....it is sort of hypocritical in a funny sort of way. Not funny, haa haa, but funny as in curious in a despicable sort of way.

[bravenak]

36. Funny how the GOP is also using the same info to call for her arrest

Perhaps some of our louder newer folks are not what they say they are. You know how Karl Rove is... He loves to infiltrate liberal groups to tear them apart. This arrest hillary thing is SUPER ROVIAN with a dash of Lee Atwater.

[grasswire]

37. you are hyperventilating

No one here has called for "life in the Federal Pen" for Hillary. Many have predicted that she will be pardoned, or not adjudicated.

But, Bravenak, if you believe in MLK Jr's concepts of justice and in the civil right of equal justice under the law (all of which I hold dear) you can't get away with also using weasel words to describe what she has done and paint her as untainted before evidence is presented.

For consistency, I will agree that Ed Snowden should face a FAIR trial and the consequences. The problem is that the government has prejudiced any such event. He can not get a fair trial at this time. So he's in limbo.

But Hillary should also face adjudication and consequences for what she has done.

Do you trust Obama's Justice Department?

[bravenak]

39. I am breathing fine

It is the ones screeching for her imprisonment that I suspect are out of breath. I do not believe Hillary can get a fair trial, she has already been convicted by many, even on the 'left'. Let us put her in limbo too, since he gets the benefit. He admitted his wrongs as did she. His violations were way worse. Why should she be put on the scaffold?

[annavictorious]

51. You guys need to stop playing lawyer.

Spend three years in law school, pass a bar exam, and then we'll talk.

"But Hillary should also face adjudication and consequences for what she has done."

What a profound and pious pronouncement! Ah the humanity! The hubris! The ridiculous self-importance!

What exactly has Hillary Clinton done that would cause her to be adjudicated (?), who appointed you to persecute her, and how exactly are you different from the man who wants to punish women who have had abortions?

[Number23]

76. Fuck all that, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell ML FUCKING K has to do with any of this!

Good God, this place is off the damn rails.

[Squinch]

99. That's the new thing: just throw MLK and oligarchs in wherever the fancy strikes you.

[annavictorious]

40. I think we're seeing the genesis of Tea Party 2.0

They've morphed ridiculous ideologues who demand idiosyncratic purity from everyone except themselves and their candidate.

[bravenak]

44. It has an almost deist vibe to it

[bjo59]

45. You know what's not amusing? The fact that so few politicians, including HRC, have anything

to say about the ongoing and outrageous corporate and colluding governmental agency exploitation of west coast farm workers. What's not amusing is the refusal to take that seriously or even acknowledge it. The only candidate who is engaging with this criminal reality is Bernie Sanders but, of course, he's only worthy of mockery and dismissiveness right?

[bravenak]

47. He is very dismissive himself and derides my party as corrupt

We reap what we sow. I get my portion of it daily, so does Hillary. If Bernie is so awesome, how come you guys can never lets a critical word against him stand? Is it that he does not stand up to criticism very well?

[laserhaas]

46. Not true...Im a Snowden aware..and his arrest

Must be based ...ONLY upon intent

Hillary was FLOTUS and knew the protocols

Thats why she circumvented

And thats intent

[bravenak]

48. You think INTENT is all that matters?

Tell that to the millions of blacks in prison.

[KingFlorez]

49. It's not about the emails

It's all about her having the nerve to get more votes than Bernie Sanders.

[bravenak]

50. Such a BOLD woman

Thinking that winning was ok. Tsk tsk tsk

[brush]

114. That's exactly it.

[TransitJohn]

52. What kind of mental contortions

do you have to go through to make this falsely equivalent in your head? Or was it simple cognitive dissonance?

[bravenak]

54. None

[TheSarcastinator]

58. your false analogy depends upon the exclusion of ethics

The difference between the Snowden situation and Clinton's complete disregard for her professional responsibilities is clear to any human being with a reasonably sensitive ethical compass: only a moral moron or bald-faced propagandist could possibly fail to disregard this fundamental question of context.

Camp Hindenburg seems more desperate by the hour. Each of them absolutely understands that this issue has legs and they will say whatever they deem necessary to distract the dialogue.

[bravenak]

60. So his professional responsibilities included using his security clearance to steal our data????

She had already been chastised for her lax security. Why call for prison for her when he never even faced the music for stealing our stuff and possibly giving it to Putin?

[laserhaas]

111. He was responsible to all of U.S. and she was irresponsible

And downright conniving

The taking in of millions..from foreigners..while Sec of State

IS criminal

[bravenak]

113. He stole and fled the nation

Which is a criminal act. Add flight from prosecution to his list of violations? Long sentence.

[laserhaas]

116. Yeah...thats bullchit..He reported on defraud of the nation

And fled from the tyranny that follows to destroy whistlblowing

[bravenak]

118. He is not Paul Revere!

He took data that did not belong to him to a foreign nation for god knows what. He needs to be investigated as he used his security clearance to obtain said data. That is a clear violation.

[laserhaas]

120. 1st of all Paul Revere wasn% Paul Revere

Israel Bissel was the real rider

[bravenak]

121. And Snowden is a glorified data thief

Who took said data to Russia where putin could get to it. Lord knows how much time they spent digging through our state secrets

[laserhaas]

145. You mean like Homeland...NSA..etc

Except they did it for personal gain

Snowden did it to expose data thieves

[bravenak]

146. He did it for attention and so he could be feted by foreign powers

[laserhaas]

148. Your just being snide..petty and hateful

With no proof of the mens rea

Just like many who claim I make chit up bout Romney n Sachs

[bravenak]

149. You have no evidence that his intentions are good

[laserhaas]

155. Correct...but the results were good..that he exposed it

You..on the other hand..claim to be able to read minds...as you've already stated ( loudly) what you believe his intent was.

Your focusing on the messenger;
but your ignoring the message.

Question is...what's your motivation...to do so?

[bravenak]

156. He needs to face the music

And return our property.

[laserhaas]

158. Says who? You mean like Manning?

Life in prison. ..ut jack chit about war crimes/ cover ups!

He's lost family ..friends...and career

Do you want...blood?

[Ash_F]

61. Snowden is a hero bravenak. Sorry.

[ucrdem]

62. He's a Libertarian hero, no question there.

Turns out they've even made a movie about him. But they make movies about Ayn Rand heros too.

[Ash_F]

63. Watch this when you have some time. It's amazing

[laserhaas]

159. Thanks for this

[bravenak]

68. He sure is

[bravenak]

65. Nope

[brush]

115. He's only a hero to those who disregard his revealing details of his own country's . . .

international covert operations.

If had limited his revelations to domestic spying on US citizens he would in fact be a hero, but he didn't. He stole classified info and ran to China and Russia. If you don't think they both now have that information I have a bridge to sell you.

He's defector who is guilty of sedition against his country.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. So just to be clear on the analogy...

you do understand that the support for Snowden is not *because he broke the law*, it is because he revealed *massive governmental malfeasance*. If he could have done that without breaking the law that would have been fine, but he couldn't. Snowden did not reveal anything that the Russians or the Chinese did not already know. It was only the peasants - you and me - who were in the dark regarding just how vast and pervasive our surveillance state had become. Those of us like myself who support whistle blowers like Snowden or Manning or Ellsberg do so because of the benefit to society they perform, we do so because we believe that the people have the right to know what their state is doing in their name.

Now remind me again what purpose was served by Clinton's use of a private email server for her official government business? What benefit to society was obtained?

By the way I thought you posed here as some sort of progressive, as somebody on the left. Odd that you would be regurgitating the standard authoritarian security state booster talking points about Snowden. Or perhaps not so odd.

[bravenak]

66. I am showing you the double standard against Hillary

[Warren Stupidity]

70. well there you go, not one point addressed, what a shock.

Yes sure that's it, the problem is that Clinton is a women and Daniel Ellsberg isn't. The problem is that Clinton has hit the glass ceiling on whistleblowers. Is that really your point?

Tell me again what benefit to society was derived from Clinton's DUMB FUCKING STUNT of using a private email server for her official business?

[bravenak]

71. My pount is that he is defended for crimes that are way worse than hers because of fee fees

[Warren Stupidity]

74. and an excellent pount it is.

"My pount is that he is defended for crimes that are way worse than hers because of fee fees"

I feel like I am debating a 12 year old. Let's try this one more time: what benefit to society was obtained from Clinton's idiotic assemblage of poorly maintained and insecure tech equipment which she stupidly used for official business?

[bravenak]

75. Benefit to society is not anything to worry about

We are taliking about Hillary going to prison for bad data protection while he should be free when he was an actual THEIF!! Your idea of benefit to society is not the same as mine. Neither benefitted society one whit! One was lax protections and rule breaking and one violated statutes and ran from prosecution. The ordeal actually cost our government money and did not tell us anything we did not already know.

He kept saying he was going to release some brilliant NEW stuff that would SHOCK US! Then he'd say he was going to do it ina few months, then again, again, nothing new ever came of it besides Paul Revere memes and dumb conversations. He needs to be put to trial and investigated. She has already been chastised and investigated.

[Warren Stupidity]

79. Er no, if she committed any felonies it wasn't for "bad data protection"

it would be for violating various secrecy laws, the same ones, more or less, that Snowden violated. The difference is that Clinton did so for her own personal reasons and that we, the public, obtained no benefit - unless you can manage to cough one up - from her idiocy. She also might be in trouble for not being honest about stuff during the investigation, you know, the whole cover up thing. Or she might not be in trouble at all - a more likely scenario. The boot falls on the common people, not the elites.

We are back to square one, I can point to why whistle blowers like Snowden and Manning and Ellsberg ought to be celebrated rather than persecuted - they keep us an informed citizenry, they perform an essential function in a democracy. So, Bravenak, one more time, WHAT BENEFIT DID WE OBTAIN FROM CLINTON"S NONSENSE?

[bravenak]

80. He did it for the attention and free trip around the world

[treestar]

84. It is a major inconsistency

after all transparency was so important. So making it easier, allegedly, should not be a problem. We have a right to know all that stuff anyway, right?

[bravenak]

87. I would think they might go easy on her in hope she might go easy on him later

[kpola12]

89. Snowden exposes government and corporate arrogance and hypocrisy.

Hilary's server seemed to be set up to do something quite different.

[bravenak]

90. Nope. He stole our data.

[Logical]

92. Lets just say I didn't miss your posts when you were on vacation. nt

[bravenak]

94. I do not believe you

[karynnj]

97. You are right, but you forget the other inconsistency

It was Hillary Clinton herself and many supporting her that called for the need for consequences.

There are also some who are consistent - calling for both to be held responsible for what they did. (Here, it is less clear that HRC actually violated any laws - no matter how much she flouted rules.)

[bravenak]

100. He did flee from prosecution rather than actually blowing the whistle nationally

And our state department has a history of such lax behaviour. She deserved a reprimand but not prison. Had he remained and published with a national paper and had attempted to alert members of the House or Senate, I'd feel like he deserved the benefit of doubt.

[Lil Missy]

104. Bernie Logic.

[bravenak]

110. Soon we wont have any subject untouched

[elias7]

105. I find you tend to generalize a lot and lump people together

You have set up a straw man and a false equivalency here which I know you will choose to counter rather than consider if I elucidate. So I won't.

FWIW, I totally defend Snowden, as if I were in his shoes, I could imagine myself going down the same path. I don't give a shit about Clinton's emails. i see no intent of anything in her case.

What box do you want to put me in?

[bravenak]

108. Find your own box to get into

I am not interested in doing anything to you

[insta8er]

129. But you are so good at putting people in boxes, let me see so far we have seen

people claiming integrity, purity and hypocrisy..just in this post alone. Those were all words
you used to describe or condemn those that don't hold your viewpoints.
You have called people stalkers,unserious trolls,Losers, dumb in some of your other posts.
And then there are the "not real Bernie supporters" because according to you "The real Bernie supporters I know have all said they will support Clinton in the general"

You proclaim all of this with a certain air of arrogance and totalitarianism that would make a 3rd world dictator blush.
Meanwhile you suggest that you are a Democrat, I believe this not to be compatible with your viewpoints and the type of condemnation you use for those that don't agree with you.
The argument you are bringing up in this post alone are so contradictory, but I would need a separate post to show why your observations are not in line with the facts and your simplistic approach of these 2 totally different subjects and the exercise to somehow link them together.

[bravenak]

130. Whatever

[insta8er]

133. You are welcome, thank you for the rebuttal it was quite uplifting.

[elias7]

173. I don't get in to boxes

That's my point. Your claim is "The very same people who defended Snowden and his illegal acts of theft of proprietary info are now calling for the ARREST and INCARCERATION". Then you go from that faulty premise to construct an anger filled rant about hypocrisy.

What few people do imagine you are pointing your finger at? MOST people are not interested in the email thing. I would hope most that are interested are waiting for results of a fair investigation. Some close minded people and some anti-Hillary folks may get your goat, but you'll never get into a reasonable discussion with them anyway.

I think people think about Snowden in a completely different way than people think about the Hillary email thing, because they are completely and utterly different things. But with the one tiny thread of commonality (proprietary info), you are tying the two issues together, tying groups of people together, and binding them with a pointing finger of condemnation that is really your own imagined construct. That's a lot of work for one tiny thread to do.

[bravenak]

187. I'm not angry. They are the one frothing with bitter rage against Hillary

I am amused

[Skid Rogue]

123. This one is simple...

If you're "actually" concerned about national security and you're afraid that Clinton compromised national security by having a secure private email server -- then, if you're consistent in your beliefs, what Snowden did would horrify you. The OP is 100% on target.

[bravenak]

125. Absolutely. Thank you.

[pandr32]

126. Excellent point!

[bravenak]

131. Ha!

[SpareribSP]

135. I guess the pentagon papers were equivalent to

Geraldo drawing maps in the sand as well.

Hillary probably shouldn't be arrested, but what she did was stupid.

[lumberjack_jeff]

136. Snowden knows what he leaked, and he knows why.

Clinton has no idea what, through paranoia and a desire to hide from the public her activities as a public employee, she allowed to be leaked.

Maybe Putin will release her Goldman Sachs transcripts.

Nothing about this amuses me.

[bravenak]

137. Oh we should just trust the thief who stole the data to be doing the right thing?

Wow. But she needs arresting?

[barrow-wight]

139. Well said.

[Arazi]

141. It's going to suck for you when the FBI and Intelligence Agency's reports come out

You're in for a world of hurt when everyone learns the full scale of HRC's problems. Snowden comparisons? Unbelievable

I feel sorry for you and the rest desperately trying to spin this

Its either willful delusion or a determined band of propagandists. Quite the show

[bravenak]

142. Yeah yeah yeah

My feelings are not involved with any politician that I could ever be in a 'world of hurt' if they go down. That said, this is not going anywhere.

[laserhaas]

147. Clinton's charity took in millions..from foreigners

While Sec. Of State.

How Hillarians can be so obtuse to the lack of ethics

Is beyond mindboggling

[polly7]

150. LMFAO. nt.

[underthematrix]

151. Yes yes yes great analysis

Snowden is a traitor and did commit crimes against the US but they have turned into a hero.

[bravenak]

153. It really is silly the way people like him are built up

[Skid Rogue]

152. IMO, this analysis...

isn't about heroes, it's about hypocrites.

[bravenak]

154. Pretty much

[cpwm17]

157. The Hillary supporters mostly were pro-prosecution for Snowden

who did the American people a big favor by exposing major violations to our privacy.

Hillary is running for US President, and the very same people that want to prosecute Snowden, think Hillary makes a good candidate for US President. Hillary exposed US secrets and violated FOIA rules for strictly selfish reasons.

It's clear who the hypocrites are.

[betsuni]

160. I know! I think about that too.

In paranoid libertarian world, Snowden good, Snowden hero, government bad, law bad. Now government good, law good, Hillary bad, Hillary criminal.

[bravenak]

161. It gives me the spins

[cpwm17]

166. In the hypocritical world (and authoritarian world)

those that supported prosecution for Snowden, when he exposed major violations to American privacy, think Hillary would make a great president.

I guess powerful people exposing secrets for selfish reasons isn't such a big deal.

[ContinentalOp]

162. We need a candidate who respects TRANSPARENCY...

and also respects ABSOLUTE SECRECY!

[Cha]

163. Yeah, they're nothing if not hypocrites.

poor eddie had to high tail it to Russia.. OTOH..

Hillary's going to be POTUS #45..

Mahalo brave~

[bravenak]

164. History is being made with or without them!

[baldguy]

167. I think you're missing their primary motivation:

Which is "Can this issue be made to paint Democrats as corrupt, criminal or incompetent?". Hence the breathless repetition Trey Gowdy's talking points, and the total dismissal of the fact that Snowden was perfectly happy with the NSAs activities until That Black Guy got into the Oval Office.

[bravenak]

180. It's so fucinkg gross how Trump Trolls run around infiltrating our spaces

[workinclasszero]

168. So true

The hypocrisy...it BERNS!

[Scuba]

169. Snowden's intent: Expose war crimes. Hillary's intent: Hide crimes and other wrongdoing.

If you can't see the difference, perhaps you should open your mind.

[Sheepshank]

174. So you get to decide which ends justify the means?

No, that is a recipe for the unbridled hypocrisy pointed out in the OP

[thesquanderer]

170. Equivalents?

It is simplistic to say that anyone who thinks person X should be punished to the maximum extent possible should logically think the same of person Y, because it doesn't take into account that the circumstances may differ. To take an extreme example, not everyone who kills someone deserves the same punishment, as there can be all kinds of things that distinguish one such case from another. I do think the two circumstances here are different... even IF both broke the law (and it is not clear that Hillary has), one is using as his defense that it was in service of a greater good, the other offers no such rationale for her actions.

On a side note, re: "The very same people who defended Snowden...are now calling for the ARREST and INCARCERATION"

The very same people? Can you point to any such person? So often here, it seems people are eager to accuse "the other side" of hypocrisy without taking into account that neither side is homogenous, and you can't take all the opinions of different people and assign them all to everyone in the group. Personally, I have not seen any messages calling for Hillary to be arrested, and few specifically calling for incarceration. At an rate, to whatever extent there are such people, if you're going to talk about "these selfsame folks," it seems to me that you'd have to ask those individuals what they think of Snowden, rather than presume what view they hold there, unless the same person has posted about both Clinton and Snowden.

[bravenak]

183. The VERY SAME PEOPLE

Selfsame means exactly the same. I watched them then as now.

[mcar]

175. But Snowden is a hero!!!!

Hillary is eeeevil. See, it all makes perfect sense.

[bravenak]

185. Woman bad, man good

[mcar]

188. Just so simple

[uponit7771]

192. +1

[highprincipleswork]

176. Snowden was not trying to be my representative for the presidency of the United States!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cloud hanging over her head on this is not going away anytime soon, and is a canker on Democratic chances up and down ticket as long as she is anything close to "the presumptive nominee".

[bravenak]

181. Same laws apply no matter who ya are

[basselope]

178. Great comparison. I agree neither Snowden nor Clinton are qualified to be President.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

182. I don't think that either of them should be arrested or incarcerated.

Though I do think the whistle blower should should be welcomed back and Hillary should seek a different job than the one she's now seeking.

[bravenak]

184. I think I'm fine with neither being arrested but he can stay there

She can move to 1600 penn

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

186. We certainly disagree on her possible future address.