Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms

[beachbum bob]

america will never elect a man who is a declared pacifist...Our super delegates more that more than anything else...bernie can say...I changed my mind on it...but doesn't remove it from his past nor his actions...



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-applied-conscientious-objector-status-vietnam-campaign/story?id=33434041


Bernie Sanders applied for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War, his campaign confirmed to ABC News.

"As a college student in the 1960s he was a pacifist," Michael Briggs, campaign spokesman added in an email. "[He] isn't now."

Last week, the Des Moines Register ran a column from a Hillary Clinton supporter and Vietnam veteran, titled, "How can Sanders be commander in chief?"

"My question as a Vietnam veteran is: How on earth could a person claiming to be a conscientious objector become the commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world?" questioned the column author Steve Wikert. According to a profile from the Vermont Senator's hometown newspaper, the Burlington Free Press, his conscientious objector status application was eventually rejected, but by then Sanders was too old to be drafted.

[m-lekktor]

1. I don't think many right wing assholes were planning to vote for him to begin with. nt

[Arkansas Granny]

37. I don't think that all Vietnam vets are right wing assholes.

I know several who are solid Democrats.

[choie]

65. So they'd rather vote for

Clinton, who voted to enable Bush to send soldiers off to die for lies...?

[Arkansas Granny]

69. I don't like to see our vets referred to as assholes just because their choice differs from yours.

Their vote is their own, but I know that many have voted for Democrats in the past. So maybe they'd rather vote for Clinton than Trump.

[Trust Buster]

76. Thank you for pointing out his intolerance.

[Baobab]

83. That was the right thing to do then. If the draft had continued, I would have done that.

Again, Bernie shows the best way is honesty.

Compare that to all the fake hawks, who all used various scams to get out of military service.

Or Hillary who pretended she was shot at when she wasn't. (In Bosnia)

[merrily]

91. She claims she tried to joined the Marines, but the officer told her she was

female and too old.

[cliffordu]

80. Lol. I'll be an asshole for you anytime.

[tonyt53]

2. Hmmm. Bush II with his fake Air Guard Reserves time, Trump, with his multiple fake deferments,

Romney, the same, Limbaugh, the same, Nugent, the same. Bill Clinton, the same. Now Bernie.

[merrily]

26. No,Bernie did not desert or dodge the draft. He aboveboard applied for conscientious objector

status. Not because he is a pacifist--though I wish he were--but because he opposed that particular war. And he was right.

As it happens, he never got the status, but he never got drafted, either.

[tonyt53]

53. A conscientious objector is opposed to all wars and any wars. Sgt. Alvin York was one, but served.

Bernie was trying to pick and choose his war to be opposed to then. Interesting.

[2banon]

81. Oh puhleeze. give it up. Everyone I Knew with a BRAIN applied for CO

who hadn't already been drafted because:

THAT WAR WAS EFFING WRONG.

PERIOD.

And it still is a BLOODY STAIN just as the War in Iraq is.

To This Very Day.

Do you need pictures of the massacres reposted to get it?

[LeFleur1]

97. Conscientious Objectors

Conscientious Objectors sometimes served as medics in the past.

[JudyM]

68. Snopes: "By the time his number came up, Sanders was too old to be drafted. "

Rated FALSE that he was a draft dodger.
http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-dodged-draft/

Just to clarify

[tonyt53]

78. Did I say he was a draft dodger? Nope. He tried to pick and choose instead.

And that is sad. He wanted to avoid the draft anyway that he could. Some people will say that is dodging the draft.

[Baobab]

85. Faulty logic there.

Its not okay to say to somebody that because they would have fought the Nazis or Japanese in WWII (to give an example of the clearest "just war" - decades before my lifetime) that they NOW have to go kill innocent people forever in every new war the MIC thinks up when the goal is increasingly just to siphon off more money.

No way Jose.

No wonder the government is having a crisis of leadership in this situation.

With their Catch 22s they are selecting for idiocracy.

Why didn't we use our military to stop the genocide in Rwanda, BTW. Bill Clinton's behavior then was disgraceful.

[JudyM]

98. Well put, Baobab.

[Silver_Witch]

3. Another reason to love him!!

NO more war. And just FYI being an conscientious objector did not excuse you from the draft. It just meant you would get a shitty job and no weapon to defend yourself!

Swiftboat anyone!

[merrily]

23. It disappoints me, but Sanders is not a pacifist. He was against the Vietnam War, though.

[DrDan]

24. not necessarily - depends on which of his beliefs led him to this

He could object to serving, or could object to the type of service. The first, if approved, would have him possibly serving in some civilian role. In either case, it would have to be approve by the Selective Service Board.

[Herman4747]

56. Exactly!!!

He THOUGHT THROUGH whether participation in the Vietnam War was morally justified, and concluded that it was not.
I want a president who is moral and has the capacity to think deeply about issues!

[Baobab]

86. Me too, any American who cannot see and admit that Vietnam was unjust doesnt

deserve my vote.

And they won't get it, either. Its time for the endless war/militarism to stop.

[stone space]

4. Pacifists are so evil that even being a self-avowed has-been is controversial to some.

[beachbum bob]

5. trump would make hay of this as well as the media...what happens when sanders not vetted

for the national stage

[NurseJackie]

7. They certainly would!

And it would not be pretty at all.

[stone space]

67. Trump's attacks on Muslims and Mexicans aren't any prettier.

They certainly would!

And it would not be pretty at all.

I just wish that folks here at DU wouldn't try to outdo Trump at his own game.

It's a dangerous game.

Democrats don't need to join Trump in ramping up the hate against anybody, whether they be (or are perceived as!) Muslims, Mexicans, or Pacifists.

[angrychair]

73. It's a game Clinton supporters play

They post links to neo-Nazi, anti-Semetic hate sites and say "I don't believe this but people say..." to excuse it.


A Democrat attacking a Democrat for being a CO/pacifist during the Vietnam War is got to be one of the more strange things I have seen this election season.


I know, I know, "people might say..." excuse.

[Dawgs]

10. Oh noes! The military loving, fake patriot, douche bags won't vote for him.

Guess they're going to vote for Hillary instead. You know, because they love her.

[JudyM]

17. Oh yes, of course. Because tRump served with honor.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/16/draft-dodger-trump-said-sleeping-around-was-my-personal-vietnam.html

[merrily]

21. How about deserter Dimson and draft dodger Clinton? Both elected President.

[all american girl]

43. Clinton wasn't a draft dogder...

[all american girl]

60. Anddddd......he was at school, put his name in the draft, and his number was too high

do you remember that?

[karynnj]

72. No and that is not what people learned in 1992

He had to file in 1968 when he graduated from Georgetown and would have been drafted. He had interned for Senator Fullbright and used those connections to get a position in the AR National Guard. Because he was selected as a Rhodes scholar, he was allowed to defer entering the National Guard. He accepted.

While in Oxford, the government created a lottery for the draft. Clinton's number was high, so he no longer would be that vulnerable to being drafted. He then wrote a letter that explained his position and indicated that he would not join the National Guard.

Avoiding the draft post 1968 was very much the norm for anyone who could. Losing the opportunity to be a Rhodes scholar would have been a really strange thing to do - even if he favored the war - which he didn't. He wasn't a draft dodger, but he did go pretty far out of his way to avoid Vietnam.

It DOES make the Clinton supporter rather hypocritical to attack Sanders, who had FEWER ties to power, from avoiding the war.

[merrily]

88. Yes, he was.

[merrily]

18. Which rank did Trump achieve? How about deserter Dimson?

BTW, I gather you think your OP is news. It isn't. It's even been on DU before.

Sorry!

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Let him- Questions linger about Trump’s draft deferments during Vietnam War

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/questions-linger-about-trumps-draft-deferments-during-vietnam-war/2015/07/21/257677bc-2fdd-11e5-8353-1215475949f4_story.html


Trump evaded and avoided with all the skill and connections of the rich brat class.

[VulgarPoet]

6. Because Democrats like their people to be ruthless killers, right? Right? eom

[stone space]

8. It is time to denounce the Pacifists.

[merrily]

16. Bernie is not a pacifist. He was, however, against the Vietnam War--and he was correct, as usual.

[stone space]

20. I am. And Bernie was.

Bernie is not a pacifist.

[merrily]

28. Sorry, no. Not according to Bernie. He has said that he was against that particular war, but

was not a pacifist.

[stone space]

46. It hardly matters, because this OP is an attack on Pacifists and Pacifism, not on Bernie personally.

"As a college student in the 1960s he was a pacifist," Michael Briggs, campaign spokesman added in an email. "[He] isn't now."

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-dodged-draft/

When Trump attacks Muslims, his fans are as likely to bash Sikhs as Muslims.

When Trump attacks Mexicans, his fans are as likely to attack Guatemalans as Mexicans.

Whether Bernie's campaign spokesman was accurate or not, people who are perceived as Pacifists will suffer some collateral damage from those who hate us for our Pacifism.

[merrily]

82. I think the OP's intent was to attack Bernie, in the mistaken belief that this is news to us.

Your results may vary.

[Armstead]

9. Bill Clinton reneged on a commitment to get out of the draft. Your point?

[merrily]

15. Great minds think alike. So do yours and mine! At least, this time.

[Armstead]

22. I'm of the age group that can empathize with not wanting to go to Vietnam...

I was spared by having the right birthdate in the lottery (in which the order of selection was determined by a random drawing of birthdays.)

Bernie was aboveboard about it. Clinton, not so much......And most of the "chickenhawk GOPPers" did some kind of sleazy dealing to get out of it.

[merrily]

11. America elected Bill Clinton, who dodged the draft by behind the scenes manuevering. At last

Bernie went about it aboveboard. However, Bernie is not a pacificist, though I wish he were. You can tell that from his votes. However, he was against that particular war--and, as usual, he was correct.

You should try harder to get your facts straight.

[all american girl]

44. He didn't dogde tthe draft...

[all american girl]

63. He was at school, put his name in when he was done, and his number was too high to be drafted.

[merrily]

87. Yes, he did. Do a little research.

[B Calm]

12. As a Vietnam veteran, I applaud him.

[LexVegas]

13. Doesn't matter. The guy has zero chance of being the nominee. nt

[geek tragedy]

14. who cares? long time ago, and he's not going to be the nominee nt

[stone space]

27. I care. Right wingers here at DU are using this as another opportunity to denounce pacifists.

who cares? long time ago, and he's not going to be the nominee nt

That's a little too Trump-like for my tastes.

Folks are looking for scapegoats to feed their obsessions with war.

[lakeguy]

19. good for him!

we should have never gone there.

[EndElectoral]

25. One HRC poster claims Bernie's as hawkish as HRC,and now since he was a CO, he's too much a pacifist

These guys are all over the place.

[MineralMan]

29. This was raised very early in the campaign.

It doesn't matter to me in any way, but it does matter to many people. Lots of people avoided service during the Vietnam war through many strategies and for many reasons. Others found ways to serve without being involved in combat.

Bernie took the conscientious objector route, but was turned down for that status. It was very difficult to become a CO at that time.

I enlisted in the USAF, after receiving my notice to report for the draft physical. I considered other courses of action to protest that war, but decided to simply enlist. I ended up nowhere near Vietnam, doing something I'd never anticipated ever doing.

I have no doubt that Bernie Sanders was of a mindset that would make him a conscientious objector. I can't fault him for that. But, I guarantee that many will if he is the general election nominee. More than you might suppose, and not all Republicans and conservatives.

It's one of the things that would make it difficult for him to win, despite the fact that Donald Trump was a draft avoider, himself.

[bkkyosemite]

30. If were were alive during the VN War you would know how corrupt that war was.

Many of my school mates did not come back.

[Laughing Mirror]

31. Who would expect a civil rights activist to act otherwise?

They will try to use this as another bludgeon to discredit his history, but it will only show consistency in his life's work.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. They called Bill a draft dodger too. That made me like him more. My father hated boxing, loved

Ali because he objected to that war. My father was a Veteran, a volunteer. But he did not support Viet Nam and did support those who made a stand on moral grounds like Ali.

So I was raised to see people like Bernie as heroic.

In terms of being a pacifist in the 60's, that's not today. Remember your side claims that Hillary 'used to be opposed to marriage equality three years ago' but now she's said to be a champion of those very rights. Yet here you assert that such changes are impossible.

Which is it? Is Hillary still opposed to my civil rights or did she change?

[hobbit709]

38. You keep forgetting that IOKIYAHRC.

anything she does is as pure as the new fallen snow but if Bernie does the same thing he is Satan's right hand man.

[hobbit709]

33. This vet 69-73 sees nothing wrong with that.

So what is your problem besides another Bernie bashing thread.

[Triana]

34. The REAL question is:

"How on earth could a person claiming to have a conscience become the commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world?"

And the next logical question:

What is WRONG with US?

They will never ask the first question, because they don't want to have to answer the last one.


Fuck the lot of them. Idiots.

Sanders should be President BECAUSE he applied for conscientious objector status. IF this was a sane country. But it's not. So....

[Bluenorthwest]

39. 4 April 1967 "Beyond Vietnam" Martin Luther King Jr

A link for those who care about the subject matter. Those who are bothered by the word 'revolution' should not read it as Dr King makes much use of that word, so loathed by some on DU today...


http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentsentry/doc_beyond_vietnam/

[hobbit709]

42. The acolytes don't care about facts.

[Depaysement]

40. Nonsense

John Kerry had a silver star, a bronze star and three purple hearts. He wasn't elected either. He lost to a rich kid who's Daddy got him a cushy gig in the National Guard.

Hillary lied about being under fire in Bosnia and probably lied about attempting to join the Marines. Trump had several student deferments and never served his country anywhere at any time.

In short, the voters don't really care.

[Autumn]

41. You don't know much about Bill Clinton do ya?

[EndElectoral]

45. Here's Bills' 1969 draft letter

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.

After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

[lagomorph777]

48. About time to elect a pacifist - how have the war-mongers been working out for us?

I do think Americans are mature enough to see the devastation that endless wars have wrought on our country.

And...did Hillary register for the draft?

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. Tell me about his opponents military service. nt

[DURHAM D]

52. Everyone was trying everything possible to avoid Vietnam.

Within my only family they got married before they should have, they had a child or two, one moved to another state and enlisted in the naval reserves because in that state they were sent to the Atlantic not the Pacific, reduced college hours so they could stay in college longer, used family connections at the draft board, everything. No one should hold his application for conscientious objector against.

Vietnam was a senseless conflict.

Note: If he had been Mormon it would not be a problem. iirc Mitt spent that period on a Mission in France.

[stopbush]

54. My older brother got CO status during the Nam draft.

He's been a raging R ever since.

I on the other hand went through the draft the next year. I lucked out and my birthday was picked way down the line. By the following year, things were winding down.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. The conscientious objector represents a proud tradition.

The rub is he or she must oppose all wars, not just the ones he or she doesn't approve of.

[Tarc]

57. I don't hold this against him, any more than I held it against Bill Clinton. This is silly.

Vietnam was a Red Scare clusterfuck, anyone who ducked that should be praised.

[bonemachine]

58. What manner of right wing bullshit is this?

Since when are we AGAINST people who recognized the Vietnam war for the mistake it was, just like they recognized the Iraq war for the mistake it was, just like... Oh... I get it now... Viva Hillary!

[Yurovsky]

59. Well he's too old for Hillary to draft him into another of her wars....

so your OP is irrelevant.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. I'm a veteran, and would love to see a pacifist as president. He did the right thing then.

[bigtree]

62. I'd rather he'd not been drafted and certainly don't wish he'd been sent to Vietnam

...this is an action/choice that needs to be defended as an honorable option, not scorned.

[panader0]

64. So did I.

The Sgt. asked me "Are you Amish?" I said no. "Are you Quaker?" I said no. He asked, "On what do
you base your application for C.O.?" I said that I didn't want to travel half way around the world to kill people I
didn't know for reasons I didn't believe in. I was denied.

[hobbit709]

66. Hit and run, then go back to your protected little group and brag about it.

how typical
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107150617

[msanthrope]

70. Who cares, He's not the nominee. nt

[One of the 99]

74. Good for him.

[Arazi]

75. Wait, I've been told over and over he's even more of a hawk than Hillary

You all can't even get your talking points straight

[Trust Buster]

77. Sanders won't be on the presidential ballot so he can't be Commander in Chief.

[cliffordu]

79. So what? I did too, then thought about

Canada. Then I went and did my tour in Vietnam.

And for my money there's a difference in guts between conscientious objector and endless college deferments.

Bernie stood for his beliefs while Trump, Cheney, Bush, Clinton (Bill) and the rest of those assholes just wanted to keep sleeping with coeds, drinking beer and fucking off in class.

(And I know dimson was in the national guard, but he was about in as much danger of going to Vietnam as his mother)

[Octafish]

84. He wasn't worried about his ''Political Viability'' was he?

Seems like a brave thing to do, considering how many people's lives were ruined for doing so.

Others, however, skated at the edge without actually, you know.

[Hiraeth]

89. your answer to your own question should be: because the man has a conscience.

[Orsino]

90. Perhaps one day you'll join us. n/t

[merrily]

92. Sanders: I'm not a pacifist (very first Dem debate)

[cynatnite]

93. It might be important in the general if he were the nominee...

Right now....I don't think it's all that important. At least he stuck with his convictions and didn't take the multiple deferments like Trump did. I do respect Bernie for that.

[Goblinmonger]

94. It's a crazy world when a democratic website uses CO status as a bad thing.

Hey, remember that asshole Jimmy Carter pardoning all the draft dodgers as his first act as President? What a dick.

for the impaired.

Unbelievable what I read on DU these days.

[bonemachine]

95. It's some serious right wing bullshit

...but considering the red-baiting that we've seen, I guess it shouldn't be surprising.

[EndElectoral]

96. We've come a long way. Devolution.

[workinclasszero]

99. One of the main ways the republicans would have destroyed Sanders if he made it to the general

They would have screamed from the rooftops 24/7 about a draft dodger wanting to become commander-in-chief of the armed forces.