2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPro-Bernie Sanders posts to be banned on DU before Democratic Party has a candidate for President?
I hope not.
So is June 16th the "magical date" when pro-Bernie Sanders democrats and independents will be prohibited from presenting their views and news on Democratic Underground? That's what Hillary Clinton DU supporters have been joyfully claiming and gloating about for weeks now! How do they know in advance what DU administrators have planned? Maybe they had a look at some e-mails not shared with most DU members. I don't know.
So I have to ask, is the June 7th cutoff date based on e-mails received from top Democratic Party officials such as Debbie Wasserman Schultz or something else such as political opposition to Bernie Sanders or personal political support for Hillary Clinton's nomination by DU administrators?
In any case, everyone knows the General Election doesn't really begin until the two major party candidates have been decided at their respective conventions.
Hillary Clinton simply does not and can not have a sufficient number of pledged delegates to secure the nomination before the convention takes place. And secondly over 160 unpledged superdelegates have not indicated a preference for the nomination and the balance of superdelegates remain unpledged and they are free to vote for a candidate other than the one they have indicated a preference for. They are "free agents" at the national convention. And there is a very good chance that collectively the convention delegates won't elect Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders as their presidential candidate. Serious talk is beginning to surface among Democratic Party leaders on selecting Joseph Biden and others for the Democratic Party presidential ticket.
Only one thing can be accomplished by prohibiting pro-Bernie Sanders posts on DU before the convention. And that is to make DU a Hillary Clinton convention tool that will only serve to weaken Bernie Sanders and his supporters at the convention.
If that's what DU adminstrators want, they have a right to turn DU into an anti-Bernie Sanders discussion board.
That would mean that most posters will have to organize or find a democratic discussion board to permits free debate and discussion before the candidates have been selected for the General Election.
I urge DU Administrators to not ban posts by supporters of Bernie Sanders that criticize Hillary Clinton's policies until after the Democratic Party has selected their presidential candidate.
That seems like a completely fair and democratic proposal to me.
Isn't it?
I look forward to receiving a frank and positive response to my proposal
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Anti-Hillary posts will not be.
Post accordingly.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)If it's done before the convention decides who to run for President?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)They are suppose to be focusing on Trump after that date.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Mr Maru
(216 posts)This isn't hard to figure out. It's not like it's MATH or anything.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)place is closing down before the process is over. I don't know which one is sadder.
merrily
(45,251 posts)riversedge
(69,708 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)A safe zone for the Clinton crew?
I suppose I'll kiss DU goodbye if that's the case.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)annavictorious
(934 posts)We found or made new homes.
You can do the same.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Cause according to your profile you're "new" here (and with 4 hides already too)
Statistics and Information
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Member since: Fri Mar 25, 2016, 03:26 PM
Number of posts: 374
Number of posts, last 90 days: 374
Favorite forum: General Discussion: Primaries, 302 posts in the last 90 days (81% of total posts)
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Last post: Tue May 31, 2016, 05:02 PM
Jury
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nilram
(2,879 posts)Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)And yet Bernie supporters are somehow casting shade on Hillary? Hillary supporters were the worst in 2008 and they are adding to their infamy in 2016.
Trump and Hillary -- NEVER. People who want to beat Trump should pray that Bernie get the nomination. It's the only chance we have.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Next we will have to send them gluten free coodies, I suspect time stories on the email sage will lead to bannings too, This has happened in the past, 2004 and 2008 to be specific.
metroins
(2,550 posts)Who eat healthy due to allergies and respect others.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)right now, since I do have those allergies... so it is quite self efacing humor, Not that I expect you to get that
metroins
(2,550 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am glad it is not celiacs, yes we tested.
metroins
(2,550 posts)She had the egd and biopsy in her teens. She is also dairy free, but not lactose intolerant.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It is not so bad that I cannot eat out, but it is bad enough that if I get gross cross contamination I am out for the day
Duval
(4,280 posts)Some restaurants have gluten-free menus, but they do warn of cross-contamination. Sometimes it's a royal pain when invited for dinner at someone's home.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)I'm thinking Sesame Street characters (for some reason) because of the typo, so I enjoyed it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I think I need to seriously talk to the doctor about that.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)My sister was once briefly an editor for Omni magazine. She shared with me a piece the legendary Isaac Asimov quickly rattled off for an even quicker check. Have no fear for what you're submitting!
Though you did misspell typing. Ha!
More seriously, because of course your writing is very important to you, think about investing in a good mechanical keyboard. (like the ones IBM used to make) These newer "chiclet" style ones making hitting the wrong key much easier to do.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/240939/mechanical_keyboards_should_you_switch_.html
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)using a macbook, and they do feel odd.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)[link:
|
Actor
(626 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)Bill USA
(6,436 posts)With only positive pro-Bernie posts, the number of posts from alleged Bernie supporters would drop off about 97%!!!
seekthetruth
(504 posts)I guess I'll have to find some other forum because that is completely undemocratic.
Sorry....your ad revenue from click counts will diminish a bit.....
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Last edited Tue May 31, 2016, 08:43 PM - Edit history (1)
brings in revenue for him.
www.JackpineRadicals.org, a website for Bernie supporters is making it's forum site more user friendly. It will surely get a boatload of new members soon.
edited web address
seekthetruth
(504 posts)Sorry DU....all of my progressive friends will hear about this site. BTW, it's jackpineradicals.org - not .com
For what it's worth, I hope this other site gets plenty of traffic.....!
DU is for the Democratic Sucker Party.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)So you don't want to discuss that possibility? I understand!
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)....having been through several primary cycles here, my two non-official pieces of advice to you are-
One, to not get too prematurely excited. You probably arent going to find all the banned long-time members under the xmas tree that you think you will.
And two, to not take it upon yourself to speak for the people who, unlike you, actually do run this place.
My gut feeling is, they don't much appreciate that.
you know, though, "post accordingly", lol
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)We have a really great candidate, and yet you wouldn't know it from some of his supporters here. For every pro-Bernie post I see at least 3 anti-Hillary posts and it's frustrating. Bernie is a unique and inspiring candidate and has a great message that I think gets lost here when people on our side litter the forum with anti-Hillary threads, especially the crap from right wing sources, much of which is a rerun of right wing crap from 20 years ago.
That said, I would like to know what exactly constitutes "anti-Hillary". I remember 8 years ago constructive criticism of Obama was allowed even after the switch.
For example, will it be okay to say that she is not handling the e-mail issue well, and to point out that her tendency to be secretive has hurt her a lot over the years because it makes it look like she has something to hide when she probably doesn't? Is it okay to express concern about her views on foreign policy and military engagements?
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Ever. But pro-Bernie =/= anti-Hillary. I'm pro-Bernie. I'm also pro-Hillary. The two are not mutually exclusive.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)RelativelyJones
(898 posts)still_one
(91,937 posts)advocation for third party runs or continuing the campaign against the presumptive nominee may result in an undesired result though
If someone does not want to support the presumptive Democratic nominee, as long as they keep that to themselves there will be no issues
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)In a race like this where neither candidate can win enough pledged delegates to automatically become the nominee before the convention, the race is still active until the opposition concedes to the media-declared "presumptive" nominee.
Bernie is not going to concede, so it would be totally unfair to Bernie supporters to stop the primary race here and switch to GE.
Uncle Joe
(58,107 posts)lostnfound
(16,138 posts)Should definitely be allowed unless and until a) Bernie concedes or b) the nomination process is complete
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Skinner has decided the nominee is decided by majority pledged delegates, after the final primary, even if the opposition has "not" conceded. I don't think that is fair (no matter which candidate it is), but it's his ball game here.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)not to speak of it. I am talking about absolute problems with the candidate and anyone (except some with their heads possibly in the sand) would be very concerned about the candidate. The candidate that would be running to be the most powerful person in the world and representing ALL of us in the United States.
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)Anonymous blog posts don't count.
MADem
(135,425 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,691 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Reiyuki
(96 posts)If they are, not one would admit it. The only way you could tell is by looking at public strategy changes over the next few weeks.
If they are making backup plans, you'll see things like:
* Party leaders saying the primaries are still in process and nothing is finalized until the convention, then they're priming expectations so you're not as surprised in July.
and
* Various mainstream news editorials talking about 'alternative options' and names like Biden or Elizabeth Warren pop up. Trial balloons to gauge potential support.
If I had to bet, I'd say the 'clinched nomination' bell gets loudly rung after the California primaries, but has little effect to the Sanders people and in the end gets very little traction. If that happens, June 10th-14th will be when the above starts to play out.
I'm not saying it's going to happen, but you asked for evidence, so this is the evidence to look out for.
hack89
(39,171 posts)It shouldn't be that different for you.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)One cannot undermine the official Democrat nominee or advocate for a third party. It is pretty simple really.
Sam
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Bernie Sanders says that will not be decided until the convention delegates meet and vote.
That's why he will be campaigning from now until the convention delegates vote.
He's not suspending his campaign and he shouldn't.
He can and I think will win the nomination.
The superdelegates will decide to select someone who can beat Trump and since Hillary can't I think they will vote for Bernie.
hack89
(39,171 posts)you can still post about Bernie and his campaign.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Neither candidate will have the required pledged delegates, so they both have the potential to be the nominee.
panader0
(25,816 posts)why are they continuing anti-Bernie posts? They are driving voters away from HRC. By the boatload.
I suspect some of the recent influx of HRC supporters will leave when their checks stop.
hack89
(39,171 posts)No more attacking Dems.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)When Hillary has the majority of pledged delegates, as was the case in 2008, she will be the presumed nominee.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)Response to imagine2015 (Reply #15)
Actor This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Doesn't that change things a little?
hack89
(39,171 posts)why not simply post positive things about Bernie and leave it at that?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Investigations, reports, analysis?
hack89
(39,171 posts)I have a hard time imagining that the most rabid Hillary haters will be able to pull it off - the venom will leak through into their posts. They can't help themselves.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Any observer of any post on this site has tacit (although never explicitly stated) permission to read any emotional overtone they wish into any text and claim that that subtext is the primary message. This is completely obvious to anyone reading the site.
panader0
(25,816 posts)He's not under FBI investigation.
hack89
(39,171 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)And you know this how?
Either way, it's all right here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910474
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I can hardly wait for the last election to fall.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)My mistake.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)this is a really mature scandal, They want a bunker, let them have it.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)"Bernie wouldn't have had this problem" or "told you so." Will those be all right?
hack89
(39,171 posts)if you start racking up the hides then you might consider toning it down. It will be a learning experience for all of us.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)There is plenty of snark and vitriol from both sides. It is what happens when everyone gives up the pretense of intellectual discussion and jumps in the mosh pit instead.
Response to hack89 (Reply #5)
Name removed Message auto-removed
hack89
(39,171 posts)It is not complicated
Response to hack89 (Reply #114)
Name removed Message auto-removed
hack89
(39,171 posts)this year the goal is to put a Dem in the White House. Why wouldn't we support Sanders? Who else are we going to support?
Response to hack89 (Reply #124)
CobaltBlue This message was self-deleted by its author.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)Or know the rules of the Democratic Party nominating process.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Criminal investigations and attack?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Certainly, if I were to describe you as being weak and having a history of poor decisions, I suspect that you would feel attacked, and while mentioning her emails isn't *necessarily* an attack on her, I've seen very few posts on the subject by Sanders supporters on DU that weren't.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)arikara
(5,562 posts)True facts have always = attacks here. It looks like business as usual except now they get to turf the Bernie people.
Response to arikara (Reply #186)
Post removed
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Hitler was a strong leader who rebuilt Germany's shattered military, reduced unemployment and build good roads.
There are more true facts out there than anyone could list in a lifetime.
"It's just true facts" is not always a sufficient defence if those facts are selectively chosen to create a misleading impression.
I think that it's very sensible that the rule is "no attacks on the nominee" rather than "no attacks on the nominee, unless you genuinely believe they're true, in which case go ahead and launch them".
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)have to "get it out of our systems " IMO that's rather condescending
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910474#post1
After the primaries on June 7 (California, New Jersey, etc.)...
...we will announce that the primaries are nearing an end, and members will have one more week to "get it out of their systems".
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I can understand how the admins might get a little cynical at the sniping we engage in here in the groundlings ring.
But many of us take the larger implications that the primary represents very seriously. And that transcends the Bernie v. Hillary round of the ongoing debate over who what what the Democratic Party represents.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)I've only been here a short time and the vitriol towards Clinton is so vicious and hateful, I'm not sure how these folks will "get it out of their systems," but I applaud the admins for being as patient as they've been.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)Not only is the perspective of many of you on her record about as skewed as it gets, the tone many of you take when you present it is hateful as it gets. All one has to do is visit that JimJonesRadicals site to see what many of you think unfettered by a jury system. It's scary as hell.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the difference between JackPineRadical and Hillary for America (a site started by DUers) is openness everything done and said @ HfA is secret and dark whereas JPR is open and anyone can access their site and view it
why is that?
barrow-wight
(744 posts)I can't imagine I'd want to if it's got the same cult of personality vibe that Jacked Up Radical has. I know this is her for some here to understand, but what I find so annoying about the Bernie movement, I would find just as annoying if her people were that way but they seem much more grounded.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)There are some things I'm just better off not knowing about.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)seeing as you find it "funny" to mock the site's name.
This knockoff site will give you a clue to the mentality of the hillary site mentionedabove, without actually having to google for it.
http://jackassradicals.com/main
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)It's the system that's misbehaving, not the models...
MisterP
(23,730 posts)it's not our fault the voters didn't go for it!"
that's been their approach: to purge, exclude, cull, prune, garden, and otherwise engineer the electorate to keep voting for people who'll make sure the gravy train keeps going: winning seats is secondary to this
sibelian
(7,804 posts)There's nothing like it anywhere else on the planet. It's BARKING FUCKING MAD.
Is there any other human system anywhere in the world where a model for explaining human behaviour fails repeatedly and somehow it's the fault of the people it's trying to model? WHAAAT the FUUUUUUCK? What's happened inside their heads? What's happening to their BRAINS? Has some kind of weird alien virus got in?
WHO arrives at conclusions like this? What do they think ordinary people ARE?
"HI EVERYONE! We've decided to construct our behaviour in a way that is TOTALLY all about giving ourselves maximal leverage over you without your having any say in the matter whatsoever and if you don't like it, well there's pretty obviously something VERY weird about YOU!!! MY GOODNESS, what strange emotional reactions you have to everything!"
I cannot understand how they've managed to end up like this. They go off and invent whatever heroic fantasies they need to (featuring themselves as protagonists) to make them feel good about themselves, populating said fantasies with the rest of us as secondary characters and open their mouths and start talking as if it's all to be taken as read. Then they blink and fluster when real people turn out not to be things on the inside of their heads. And then they get angry! They start throwing toys out of the pram because it's "not fair"!
I think we're dealing with levels of emotional underdevelopment that can't be mitigated against. They've placed so much emotional investment in being able to outsmart people that they're supposed to be cooperating with that they can't be communicated with any more.
I don't see a way of recovering it.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)them as flipping easily to Pubs rather than disaffected because what 70-90% of the country wants has been blocked
2. they are all certain that they're lefties and progressives--in fact the leftmost fringe possible under the current system; now there's some people who gave up on the party and want to take it back after being indies? nuh-uh
2a. any attacks on them are either originated in the GOP or, by weakening the party, serve the GOP's purposes
3. they're also "pragmatic": they "get things done" while the critics can never be satisfied--why appeal to them?
3a. that's also why they are so close to the megadonors, since you can't win without their millions--
3b. --ironically erasing a lot of the DNC's need to win since the amounts are the same regardless of what happens in the provinces ...
3c. ... so they can punt on a few elections if it'd mean winning with a Dem who'd upset the gravy train
sibelian
(7,804 posts)It's a bunch of debating tactics that have emerged reflexively through previous lost battles instead of establishing a functional ideology through any observation of realpolitik, it's completely eclipsed anything that resembles a desire to relate cause to effect prosaically.
The most profoundly head-cracking thing about it is that they absorb wholesale the assumptions they need to make the debating tactics look reasonable to themselves AS IF THEY ARRIVED AT THEM THROUGH AN ANALYSIS OF EXTERNAL REALITY even when said assumptions contradict each other.
"Excuse me? Sir? Did you notice that thing you just did where you completely re-wrote what you believe just so you get to carry on arguing with your opponent, sir? Uh, sir? Sir? The irony of your implied insistence on principle is lost on no-one but you."
blaming the voters is just easy, especially when you see
I'll go through your stuff
Your list is excellent. I'd add:
Beacool
(30,244 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and she was awarded the SoS position
musicblind
(4,484 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)"BernieBros", ffs...
haikugal
(6,476 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)can anyone tell me in what positive way I can report that Clinton has been indicted?
mmonk
(52,589 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)if they want a bunker, let them have it. (Though the place will be fun to watch, like Free Republic, for the same reasons actually)
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Makes sense I suppose, since you say you're not a Democrat and constantly tell us how much you hate this place.
Oh well, DU will try to soldier on...
beaglelover
(3,435 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)To hypocrisy, right?
They have plans and are gathering resources as we speak.
There is also this: http://www.brandnewcongress.org because the movement will not end until the 99% are treated fairly.
Take my hand.......let's keep it moving.
trudyco
(1,258 posts)I signed up for my local area. So glad some people are organizing.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)There is literally no chance of that happening.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)JSup
(740 posts)...and anti-Hillary are synonymous you are basing this opinion on a false premise.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)the "centrist" antipathy to the idea that the Democratic Party should actually be as strong a Liberal/Progressive Populist (in a good sense) Counterweight to clearly oppose the GOP as the Party of Big Money and Big Power and Narrow-Minded Right Wing Bigotry.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Second, this is the same policy as in 2008 and 2004. It's not some anti-Sanders plot.
Third this is kind of the general point of the board, to support Democratic candidates.
Fourth, the posts that will be banned are the ones attacking the Democratic nominee for President. If you can't avoid that, that's on you.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)I see it two ways. Skinner can spell out his expectations or he can just start shitcanning people. It's his Website, he can do whatever he wants.
But it has been my experience that every time DU goes through a major change, he does spell them out, and quite clearly.
So that's what I asked.
My suggestion is that anyone who has concerns about this should go to ATA and look for his response.
Common sense only goes so far, and there are going to be a shit load of "gray areas," like the one you suggested (criticism of Clinton from anyone, Sanders or not, no matter how it's presented).
I don't know.
Skinner knows.
And I asked him.
Best I can do, folks.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I don't think the powers that be in DU are stupid, so it's a non issue.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Hillary Clinton campaign website even before the Democratic Party delegates decide who they want to run for President.
Response to imagine2015 (Reply #26)
Post removed
onenote
(42,373 posts)Why have you stuck around?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)It certainly has been implied by various factions over the years. I just know that there is a family connection to the Clinton camp.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)...and he expects DUers to unite behind the Democratic Party nominee to combat that threat.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)And that happens at the national convention, not before it is held.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Not at DU and not in the media. There is another thread on the recent history of presumptive nominees. You should check it out.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)perhaps you could provide a link? I'm wondering how many of those recent presumptive nominees were under FBI investigation and had scathing reports issued by IGs.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Most others shrugged it off; noted that Powell and Rice were also cited for wrongdoing; and concluded that little rises to the level of criminality. Sandy Berger stole classified documents from the NARA and ditched them in a construction trailer until he could pick them up. He only got charged with a misdemeanor. I think if the FBI was charging people, they'd have done it by now.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I borrowed the description from what I read.
The IG report is about FOIA and record keeping. The FBI investigation is separate and about handling national defense information and public corruption. The FBI won't be charging anybody because that is not their jurisdiction. The make recommendations; Justice either brings charges or doesn't.
Powell, Rice and Berger were not and are not running for president. None of them claimed they didn't have any classified or marked classified information on their private server, only to have thousands of classified documents turnup. None of them had single email instructing aides to strip classified headings from documents and email unsecure. None of them confirmed by email that they understood not to use a blackberry in SE Asia due to security risks and then turned around and used an unsecured blackberry in SW Asia. None of them claimed for a year that they looked forward to talking to the FBI and then refused to cooperate. None of them had aides pleading the 5th. None of them had aides admitting intent to evade FOIA.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Someone will be the Democratic nominee. I will support that person, and I hope you will too.
However, I have to be totally honest: I'm in an Applebees, and it's Karaoke night. I would vote for Trump if he'd pass an edict outlawing Karaoke for all time in public. Seriously, they should use this to make the terrorists talk.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)There will be a presumptive candidate on June 8th.
Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #40)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)I don't have any pull around here
barrow-wight
(744 posts)The anti-Hillary bashing will not be allowed after the DC Primary. He's going to give you a warning on June 7th so you have a week to get it out of your system.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910474
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)Do you think because you've been on this site longer that you automatically have more interest in political campaigns?
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)...who'd been here much longer than me. My political interest was the same, but I had some manners. That's all. If you're content being the way you are, don't be surprised when you get some backlash.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Already obsessed with the Stockholm Syndrome thread, Willy, "Bernie Bros" and Bernies "racism", "being followed around" (snort), and AAs getting unfair hides amongst other obvious clues to their real alter ego here.
Same writing style too ("whatevs" and rudeness.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)After reading stuff that is clearly provocative; you know, the kind of stuff that if a person said it face to face with someone, it could probably end in a physical confrontation; I ask myself, "Is that the kind of thing an asshole would say?" If the answer is yes, more often than not, I just put the person on full ignore. As you may have guessed, I've got a lot of people on full ignore here. I've been here since Dean was the front runner back in 2004 and I've never seen it like this. This is what happens when the conservative corporatists take over the party.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The nastiness is outsized now. Without any checks there's tremendous hatred. I know I'll never see some longtime posters in the same way again, many I used to call friends.
The admins clearly hold Bernie supporters in contempt ("letting" us "get it out of our systems" .
The alt-DailyKos site is thriving. Despite the current design JPR is growing and with the launch of their new friendlier layout, I suspect it will see big influx after the hammer lands here.
Peace!
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)The convention is not where the nominee is selected, it's a mere formality unless the results are deadlocked enough where a contested convention is necessary. However, that is not the case as Clinton will cross the pledged delegate threshold next week and that will be the end of the primary. In 2008 the same thing happened here, so it's not a new rule.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)That's just a fact of life no matter how much you may protest it.
You could put up the number of pledged delegates she has now and how many more pledged delegates she needs to secure the nomination.
You could do that. I hope you do! That will prove she can only capture the nomination if enough unpledged superdelegates vote for her.
So go ahead, put up the pledged delegate totals!
So do you think pro-Bernie posts should be banned before the convention decides who to run for President?
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)He indicates he will call it when the voting (read: the DC primary) is over.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)still running to win the nomination?
That wouldn't be exhibiting impartiality in the election contest for the party nomination if that's actually true.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Skinner expects a presumptive nominee 6/7 and is shutting down GD: P debate as of 6/15.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Even a tie in California would get here around 240 delegates and when you consider New Jersey, she's going to definitely clinch next week.
senz
(11,945 posts)Not that it matters within DU (which is, after all, only a website), but ...
Hillary has 1771 pledged delegates. Bernie has 1487 pledged delegates (284 fewer than Hill).
Hillary needs 612 more pledged delegates to get to 2383.
There are only 781 pledged delegates left in the remaining nine primaries:
Virgin Islands, PR, CA Mont NJ, NM, ND SD, DC
Even if Hill does well in several states, she will not be able to reach 2383.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)They can presume the winner will be Hillary, but that's all it is a presumption. I just pray the administrators will also ban anti Bernie posts too during this time frame up until the convention.
senz
(11,945 posts)DU is not the center of the Democratic universe -- much less the electoral universe. It's just a website.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)when a candidate reaches the "magic number" -- that is, the majority of the combination of pledged and superdelegates. And the superdelegates ARE included in that count.
Hillary was slightly ahead of Obama in the popular vote and yet the race was called -- ahead of the convention -- based on Obama's lead in the delegate count (a much smaller lead than Hillary has now). That's the way it's always been done and it won't change this year.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,384 posts)Democrats hold the white house - and at the time had both the senate and the house. We certainly weren't the "underground" at that point.
CountAllVotes
(20,854 posts)Stupid me. I thought we lived in a democracy. Perhaps not.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)Neither democracy nor free speech apply here, nor should they.
senz
(11,945 posts)onenote
(42,373 posts)Free world.
senz
(11,945 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)...once people are able to get that straight, come to an understanding, a lot of angst would disappear.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)No? I thought this was a democracy!
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Contribute 1.00 or more to DU; become a * member; ask Skinner. He owns the joint.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)and start banning people because they didn't support the guy who won...
CountAllVotes
(20,854 posts)No kidding! is going on around here anyway?
Should those that don't agree with all that is said related to someone's name that begins with an H and wears a pantsuit most of the time just go away?
Just say the word and I too shall be a distant memory of the past.
Sad really, very.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)When the outrageous venomous attacks startled occurring against the presumptive Democratic nominee.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Let's see what your standard for that claim is.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)But you knew that
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)You said it was easy.
Prove it.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They may be "easy to find" but I'm not you, so I don't know what you consider such. Show me, pelase.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Giving a paranoid personality cult the keys seems like a bad idea.
senz
(11,945 posts)I don't know if you're familiar with the "Ask the Administrators" Group, but lots of people have been using it to inquire about this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1259
So that's a good place to check first. I think the administrator chooses his words pretty carefully. I would be cautious about taking anyone else's word for it.
As I've understood it so far, if "Hillary" is determined to the the nominee or even the "presumptive" nominee, they won't allow any posts that seem to prefer her Republican opponent to her. I'm not sure if information about her that is not total adulation will be disallowed, but probably posts that completely trash her won't be allowed.
However, if the replies in the group don't answer a specific question, you could always write your own question, as others are probably wondering about it also.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)They will have made a leap into an imagined future in which Hillary has already been nominated and is not under investigation by the FBI. At that point, DU will exist in that particular imaginary world, and those who prefer reality-based internet communications will have to go elsewhere.
blm
(112,919 posts)I think you are misreading the course of action.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)Mark this OP post for future ref...
'DU Administrators to not ban posts by supporters of Bernie Sanders that criticize Hillary Clinton's policies until after the Democratic Party has selected their presidential candidate.'
Any and all 'rabid' HRC supporters will push the limits of 'enforcement' of what pertains to 'criticism' of HRC...
DU will become an echo chamber unparalleled this election cycle
HRC is so feckless of a candidate that she's running even against TRUMP... any other candidate should be so far ahead of TRUMP at this moment it's stunning that HRC isn't able to beat the monstrosity that's TRUMP and GOP party
DU will be a become a joke trying to keep HRC on life support through this election cycle with the depth of her unfavorables that she can't clear or get past, that's on her, nobody else can take the blame for that... and every HRC supporter here knows that...
But with the transition from primary to GE fully expect HRC supporters here to push banning and censor to the fullest extent
Tortmaster
(382 posts)What you have is a dead parrot campaign pining for the Fjords.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)when he takes his campaign to the convention floor.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Go ahead - make my day.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)need to get your head out of the mud.
senz
(11,945 posts)DU is not the Democratic Party. DU is merely a website. A privately owned website. That's all.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)still_one
(91,937 posts)Campaigning against the presumptive nominee will not be tolerated.
No one needs to express a loyalty oath, just no undermining of the presumptive nominee after the primaries are finished
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)Third Way Underground, not as spiffy a name though.
randome
(34,845 posts)You'll need to find a big, fluffy pillow to punch if you think trash-talking our leading candidate is something you need to do. Maybe print out a picture of Clinton so you can get your hate on.
Or maybe, you know, like I said, talk about issues. Remember those? They were what the Sanders campaign was all about...a long, long time ago.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
senz
(11,945 posts)But of course, Hill didn't know what her issues were until aides wrote them up for her. And her supporters have never been interested in issues. They want exactly what she wants: to get her into the WH by hook or by crook. Period. Nothing more. Nothing else matters.
Lodestar
(2,388 posts)then it might be wise to find another site to do that on. Just saying....
senz
(11,945 posts)Response to imagine2015 (Original post)
Autumn Colors This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)At this point, only two things matter: 1) influencing the voting public. 2) a place to strategize.
These will not be in the same location.
1) Influencing the voting public -- means known, visible websites. It probably means being around Republicans, but after a year of Hill's Bros, Republicans aren't any big deal.
It's not going to last forever, just a few months.
We are part of the media.
2) Strategizing -- means smaller more private sites for fellow progressives. These are also where we would go for socializing and comfort.
On the bright, bright, bright side: certain unpleasantries will no longer be a factor. Think of what's on your ignore list.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)revenue. I'm not even sure I will come back after the GE. If Hillary wins the GE and that is a big if, we will be harassed for criticizing her policies just as we have been harassed for criticizing Obama. The only time dissent is allowed is if there is a Republican president. As you mentioned there are better places on the internet, places where discussion on actual policy is allowed and not just useless cheer leading and cult of personality.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)"Hillary is a flawed candidate but vastly better than Trump" = fine
"Everyone shoukd stay home in November instead of voting for that corporatist Third Way warmonger" = not fine.
This stuff is really not that complicated.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)His supporters aren't that in to promoting him.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)They can presume the winner will be Hillary, but that's all it is a presumption.
I just pray the administrators will also ban anti Bernie posts too during the time frame up until the convention, unless Bernie drops out of the race before then. After all we're suppose to be focusing on Trump, right?
libodem
(19,288 posts)Personally requesting, Skinner, to just finally declare her the winner, after California. They'd like to shut us up now.
They have their cave, to plot snark in, at that other site. They could stop doing it here. Mean girls.
PufPuf23
(8,687 posts)Skinner has been up front about his intentions at DU.
Skinner has been up front about personal support for Hillary Clinton yet has allowed much criticism (which IMO is valid and I have posted my share).
I don't think DU has been 100% fair regards Clinton vs Sanders.
In general, the Clinton supporters have been allowed to abuse Sanders supporters with little consequence.
Skinner says that the jury system is broken and I agree, but also that the jury system has been biased in favor of Clinton supporters.
I have my own personal experience. I have had two posts hidden at DU.
(1) "Hillary Clinton is a psychopath". Title to a post that contained the infamous video of Hillary Clinton "We came ... He Died" I am OK with this.
(2) "Who cares what you think? nt" Response to a long thread started by Bravnak. There was probably a dozen or more posts by Bravnak in the thread more worthy of a hide and ultimately Bravnak was locked out of their own thread by a hide.
I seldom use the alert function, don't lock or otherwise limit other posters, and was on a jury nearly every day
I have used the alert function now 4X but when this occurred 3X - one hide, one non-hide, and two someone else beat you with an alert.
The one hide ended up the subject of a long and mocking post in the Hillary Clinton group. The alert was presented as alert stalking and conspiracy to "hide" against the poster. The poster said they were going to Admins to get my jury ability removed. Nothing happened then.
About two weeks later I had a neutral interaction with the poster my alert caused the hidden post that resulted in the long Hillary Clinton group thread. I seldom PM but PMed the poster in a respectful and collegial manner and told them the OP and thread in the Hillary Clinton group was a flight of fantasy (or similar words) as it was only my 3rd alert and I did not alert stalk nor work as a team ever and strived to be fair when I was on a jury, maybe on that time and day I was somewhat thin skinned in the moment. The poster thanked me and asked for links to the threads which I provided. Evidently the poster went to Admin as from that moment on April 27 I have never had a jury notification after 100s before. I admit I have hid more posts from Clinton supporters than Sanders supporters but only because the Clinton supporters generated more alerts. Other than that I have been fair and adhere to TOS; I did read threads when on jury and sometimes did vary some in context of the give and take of posts. Point is that I was not guilty of being an unfair and biased juror but an Admin thought I was not a qualified juror. There was no notification, just that I have never since received a jury summons.
So I have an experience to note that DU is not always fair (and admittedly DU does not have to be fair). DU is just another place in the USA and life where some are more equal than others.
I don't intend to leave DU unless I am banned but will probably post less (more like my history at DU) and somewhat walk the edge, accustomed to being loyal opposition.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)Will stating facts about her own past policy positions be alerted?
smiley
(1,432 posts)The truth will not be permitted.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)This place is getting nutty. I guess centrist/moderate underground is on the way. Too bad. I really enjoyed reading post on here for the past 7, going on 8 years. This has been my go to.
smiley
(1,432 posts)Love this site.... but if it goes full on pro-Hillary mode, then count me out. I can't support a corrupt and dishonest politician.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)It saddens me, but progessives aren't welcome anymore
Hydra
(14,459 posts)But this place has gotten progressively more nutty over the years. I can't believe I'm watching the place that was built against Bushco swear fealty to it an its policies.
But as a political science experiment, DU was amazing.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)liberals and progressives I've witnessed here over the years I have to agree that it was a political science experiment for the third way.
tritsofme
(17,320 posts)You should thank him.
jcgoldie
(11,582 posts)Good grief that mathematically ignorant argument is so damn tired. Are you the kid that kept insisting Santa was real until he was 12?
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Authoritarian RW are very frightened and controlling creatures.
That's what is rearing it's ugly head here
Renew Deal
(81,801 posts)It's nothing new and the same rules would have applied if Bernie won.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)Hillary's pledged delegate advantage, and even her large popular vote advantage, make her the prospective nominee. Therefore, it's about time that after the last vote has been counted, we pivot to Trump.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)PufPuf23
(8,687 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)You won't be able to bash Hillary anymore after 5-16-16
bravenak
(34,648 posts)How hard can that be?
basselope
(2,565 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)The admin said the 16th is the day. That's it and that's all. Arguing with me has absolutely no effect on how things will go. It's done. Deal.
basselope
(2,565 posts)critical of a potential candidate.
Why do people feel threatened by it? Is the candidate THAT weak on the issues??
bravenak
(34,648 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Robbins
(5,066 posts)I know then when it's time for me to leave.that is when it becomes clinton underground.me and all other bernie supporters can
leave and never return.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)will make this site worthless IMO.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)... There are very few Pro Bernie threads. There are however a plethora of anti-Hillary threads. Try not to confuse the two.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)...for confirming my opinion concerning some Bernie supporter's priorities.
Bernie: " I'M NUMBER TWO!! I'M NUMBER TWO!!!!"🙌🙌🙌
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)The grand conspiracies keep getting grander.
The vast majority of people have never even heard of DU, but it's a potential convention tool? M'kay.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)It makes much more sense for everyone to just pretend that we don't know what the outcome of the Convention will be.
That way, we can all act surprised when Hillary is declared the nominee - much more fun that way, no?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Sounds a little silly to me.
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)shit up and the stirring shit up is what I think skinner is referring to not being allowed.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)and he will be busy with daily house cleaning as so many don't believe the rules apply to them
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Most of DU's Bernie supporters gave that up long ago and switched to an "all anti-Hillary all the time" OP format.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)they will post it to let us know where we can go to get freedom of speech back.
Thanks in advance.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)sanders can go back to vermont then
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I hear he's a comparatively enlightened and tolerant sort.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Campaigns involve contrast. Candidate B's actions are not under FBI investigation while Candidate C's are under investigation. Etc.
The facts, even the ones from editorials from The New York Times editorials, have an anti-Clinton agenda and must no longer be mentioned. Maybe if we use acronyms? The Goldman Sachs speeches transcripts can be referred to as TGSST. So maybe we'll be allowed to say we agree with The New York Times about releasing TGSST?
I doubt it though.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)...but you think it's your place to question the DU admins motives? Denigrate them for exercising their right to vote as they see fit, rather than how you demand?
The Democratic Party has already selected its nominee by voting. The convention is a formality.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)It appears you just don't understand the Democratic Party primary and convention rules and nominating process.
That's unfortunate.
Perhaps someone can explain the delegate rules and procedures to you but I don't really have enough time to take on that task.
Case Closed.
still_one
(91,937 posts)primaries
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)We're not going to play pretend, that we don't have a presumptive nominee, after June 14th, per Skinner.
Don't like it? Simple solution - go somewhere else. You haven't been here for even a year yet so I'm sure you can adjust.
PS - we don't have "pretend delegates" that don't count yet. That's another Bernie edict that he has no authority to make true.
rurallib
(62,342 posts)rurallib
(62,342 posts)Strongly suggest you reread and repost.
But I will not see it. My ignore list now has nearly as many Berners as Hillaryites.
Welcome aboard.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)But it lives forever no matter how many times it's shown to be completely bogus.