2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOK, listen up! I'm just gonna say this ONE time:
If you do not vote for whoever has the (D) after their name on the ballot for the presidency, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?
If you stay home because your candidate didn't get the nomination, you might as well vote for thuh Donald.
I'm 75 years old.
I've been around here since '02.
I've seen a lot of stuff, but NEVER like the bitterness between the two camps now.
Jesus, people?
Come on.
I vow that I will ardently support and work for whoever gets the Democratic nomination.
Who's with me?
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)LP2K12
(885 posts)I'm all in with ya. Bernie supporter, but will vote for whoever ends up on the ballot with a D next to his/her name.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)That is the easiest decision imaginable.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I would not work for him or give him my money.
trof
(54,255 posts)I wouldn't think I was voting for the lesser of two evils, either. While I'm big for Clinton I can find many many admirable traits and qualities about Sanders.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,267 posts)and will vote for the Democratic nominee.
I thought 2008 was worse, but the pettiness of some of the arguments turning up in GD-P is getting on my nerves. Maybe a lot of folks need to go on vacation for a bit.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)trof
(54,255 posts)If that might influence your decision.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... no matter what.
But could I have that Margarita anyway?
trof
(54,255 posts)Oh wait...did you want 'frozen' or on the rocks?
I like OTR myself.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)Just make 'em strong, and keep 'em coming!
we can do it
(12,116 posts)oasis
(49,150 posts)doc03
(35,143 posts)for like 30 years, couldn't stand the SOB 30 years ago.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)I will try to change my mind enough to vote for hillary, but honestly i don't know if i can.
trof
(54,255 posts)You know this.
Every vote that the Dem doesn't get puts Trump closer to the oval office.
Think about that.
How long would it take us to recover from that?
He would have the guy with the 'football' and the nuclear codes.
As a veteran, just the thought of him as CinC makes me want to vomit.
If for nothing else, do it for me and other current and former members of the military.
They deserve better.
Thank you.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)I imagine turnout will be way down tho
mahatmakanejeeves
(56,874 posts)Besides, what's the worst that could happen?
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)I WANT to vote FOR someone for a change
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)remember PUMA? yeah.
I think people will need a cooling off period -- between the convention and the election.
right now emotions are high...
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)trof
(54,255 posts)And I think I understand where you're coming from.
I've voted for the lesser of two evils before.
Mainly in state and local politics.
Lord knows we have a plenty of that in Alabama.
Do you vote for the racist George Wallace, or the racist John Patterson?
Yeah, I'm that old.
But I still thought it was best for my state to vote for the less evil.
(It was Patterson)
As I said in the OP, I'm 75.
This may be the last presidential race I'll see.
Who knows?
So I'll make a totally hokie emotional appeal.
Please just do me, a sad old man, a personal favor and swallow your pride and principles, and vote D.
For the greater good.
And for me.
And a Margarita.
coco77
(1,327 posts)for many it means DINO..
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Neither is Trump.
Sorry, I can't vote for a person I think is criminally corrupt and I think both Hillary and The Donald are.
Good luck.
840high
(17,196 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...but no chance I will vote for anyone but a Democrat in November.
babylonsister
(170,955 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)maybe you enjoyed Citizens United
maybe you delighted in hobby lobby
maybe you can't wait for the next Shelby County versus Holder
In that case, stay home or write in your protest vote but don't complain when the SC decides the next Bush v Gore
Response to trof (Original post)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)neoconservative foreign policy has doomed Miami to the ocean, wrecked the economy multiple times, greatly expanded income inequality, started multiple wars as "business opportunities", and created massive numbers of refugees.
I'd like to not lose more coastal cities. I'd like an economy that does not only enrich the vultures. I'd like us to stop delivering large quantities of freedom bombs, and then pretend we are surprised when the results are massively unstable.
And incrementalism, neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign policy can't deliver that. No matter what letter is after a person's name.
trof
(54,255 posts)Or is all lost?
dang
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Now, tell me again how utterly critical a letter is. Maybe this time you'll manage to make it more important than the widespread droughts and famine we'll get to enjoy.
Response to jeff47 (Reply #28)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
trof
(54,255 posts)I tried my ass off, but I just couldn't get enough others of my generation to get involved.
mea culpa
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I don't think the problem was the "others".
Of course, the establishment would give Trump 24/7 news coverage just to scare the shit out of all of us to allow Her Majesty to ascend to her rightful throne....and voila! All you guys are falling for it!
Like the old The Who song says, I'm not getting fooled again......
jeff47 is hitting the nail on the head!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)"an economy that does not only enrich the vultures, stop delivering large quantities of freedom bombs"
If not incrementalism then what? A violent coup?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The people terrified of trying are gradually "leaving the voting pool". They are being replaced by younger voters not constantly trembling about losses 50 years ago, and so are not nearly as terrified.
And much more importantly, those new voters have little more to lose.
Unfortunately, time means we already will have a great deal of devastation. But incrementalism can not undo that either.
Throd
(7,208 posts)I live in a solidly blue state. She'll win here anyway.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)Obviously she needs their money more than progressive votes.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)If it's Sanders, I will hold my nose and hope for the country, but Trump is truly a no go for me.
Martin Eden
(12,801 posts)Beyond that, I do not have the stomach to work for the Clinton campaign.
I'm a youthful 58, but already fed up with lesser evils.
madaboutharry
(40,148 posts)During the primaries in 2008, Democratic Underground was Ground Zero for the Primary Wars. It was awful. The bitterness and well, the venom, was impossible. But somehow as we rolled toward election day and President Obama took office, things calmed down. For years, everyone around here was on the "We hate George W. Bush" page and there was a common enemy. Almost overnight members were fighting and longtime DU friends were blocking each other. It was kind of sad. This doesn't surprise me. People get passionate about candidates. It is a lot like religion. Everyone thinks they're right. Hopefully, once the primaries end, people will come together and understand that the goal is to make sure Trump isn't elected. I hope we are all grown up enough to understand this.
Bleacher Creature
(11,235 posts)I will vote for anyone with a legitimate chance to beat him. In a two party system, that only means the Democratic nominee. Period.
seekthetruth
(504 posts)Well, nowadays just because someone has a "D" beside their name doesn't mean their views or policies are in line with mine. Sorry.....I'll probably vote Green this time around.
I know, I know, all you guys are going to say that I'm basically voting for Trump. But, in my view, Trump or Clinton, it'll all the same fucked up machine.
840high
(17,196 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Laffy Kat
(16,354 posts)Regardless of the nominee, because I love my country. It's simple.
intheozone
(1,102 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)abuse to go on.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)It will not matter and my concience will be clean
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Donald Trump wants to eliminate the Dept of Education. He wants to eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency. He wants to eliminate Affordable Healthcare and put everyone's health into the hands of the "free market system". He wants to privatize Social Security. He wants to increase production of fossil fuels in the US. He wants to "bomb" ISIS. He wants to build a wall between the US and Mexico. He wants to deport 11 million people. He wants to ban muslims from entering the country. He wants to reinstitute waterboarding and torture not just for suspected terrorists but their families, too. He is against abortion and wants to punish women if they have one. He is a proud racist, xenophobe and sexist. He has promised to put conservatives on the Supreme Court. He thinks the minimum wage is already too high. He wants to get much tougher on crime and drugs, especially in cities. He wants to expand gun rights so people can have pretty much any kind of gun they want.
Trump is the red meat the conservatives have been waiting for.
I am a Hillary supporter but if Bernie were to win the nomination, I would work my heart out to get him elected. I will do everything I can to prevent Trump from ever getting close to the White House and the chance to ruin the lives of generations of people here and abroad.
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... then the Supreme Court, POC, women, children, this country, and the earth itself take a backseat to flawed ideology driven by selfish ego.
DEMOCRAT 2016!!!
840high
(17,196 posts)Hillary. She has a selfish attitude.
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... you gotta be shittin me!!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Doubtful
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)But, I'm sure the copycats will pick up the Loyalty Oath demand for you.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Whether Hillary or Bernie. D!
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)-most likely has taken hundreds of millions in bribes (ostensibly "giving speeches" . At *best* she used her position of power and connections to make sick amounts of money.
-has shown willingness to blow up countries like Iraq and Libya, causing mass death and chaos. I see her doing this on a larger scale if achieving POTUS.
-switches positions constantly on (what I believe are) critical issues, like LGBT, trade, the environment, gun policy, and others.
-has shown no inent to stop our disasterous drug war, most likely due to being beholden to prison, pharmaceutical, and millitary corporations. These catastrophic policies are still locking people (disproportionlly minorities) up at historical rates, causing harm not only to inmates, but chain reaction on their spouses, children, etc.
-just comes across as a fake, phoney person, her fake accent when talking in black churches, for example, makes me want to vomit.
I hate Trump too, but dont have the visceral reaction to him that I do with Hillary. I think probably because Hillary represents herself as someone good, someone on my side, as a progressive.
mac56
(17,561 posts)She will get my vote.
Ardent support? I'm not there yet, and I may not get there this time. My dime and my time will go for downticket races. There's where my ardent support will be.
I am not convinced that she is a superior candidate to Bernie. I'd prefer to vote for the candidate I think will best lead our country.
I hate to cast my vote out of fear (what if Trump wins?) or shame (what if Hillary loses? It's all you damn Bernie people's fault).
It's like praying I don't get sick, when I could be improving my habits instead.
But she will get my vote, IF she gets the nomination.
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)But then there is the other side of the argument.
Allow me, if you will, to be "flowery" in my assessment:
There are only 2 places to eat. Everyday you eat at place #1. You love the place, although recently you've been getting a slight stomach ache from eating there. Nothing horrible, just a bit of heartburn. You've asked them to change the way they prepare the food, they say they will, but the changes they make don't stop the stomach ache, in fact it stays around longer.
place #2 is just too foul to eat at. Eating there gives you 3 days of retching and dysentery, so hell no, not gonna eat there
If you don't eat at #1 for just 1 day, there is a very good chance they will FINALLY get it and make the necessary changes needed to stop the slight queasiness you get from ingesting their food.
What to do? Do you:
A) keep eating at #1, keep trying to tell them to change and hope for the best?
B) try finding a #3. You've seen the signs in the window "coming soon" but the place never opens up
C) choke down the meal at #2. Deal with the sickness it causes the best you can and force #1 to pay attention
tularetom
(23,664 posts)My grandparents had a photograph of FDR hanging in their kitchen and they loved the man because he brought electricity to their farm and kept the bank off their butt during the depth of the depression. Friends of my granddad founded the electric cooperative that established service in their area of rural Tennessee after the passage of the Rural Electrification Act in 1935.
My mom and her two brothers were raised as yellow dog democrats and they stayed that way until Johnson pushed through the civl rights and voting rights acts during the 60's. They're all dead now and I'm the oldest of the next generation. Out of seven living grandchildren, only two of us are still Democrats - myself and my cousin who is a college professor in Kentucky. (By the way - my brother and I are the only members of our generation who have served in the military).
I will never vote for a republican in a national election. I would not vote for Donald Trump for dog catcher. But Hillary Clinton gives me the willies.
I make no promises, no commitments. I will have to proceed with caution and play it by ear.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)progressoid
(49,824 posts)This isn't the first time I've checked to box for someone I don't support.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)Have never, and will never vote for anything with an (R) attached to it.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)FSogol
(45,355 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)If Bernie would have won the nomination I would have voted for him vs Trump without the slightest hesitation.
I mean cmon Trump is an outright damned FASCIST people!
If anyone has to think about Hillary vs Trump they sure as hell ain't no democrat and they are a piss poor american to boot! IMO.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)so I won't have to make that decision.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Faux pas
(14,580 posts)works for me!
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Go Hillary!!
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Voting blue no matter who.
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)First, I'm still working for Bernie to earn as many votes and dekeagtes as possible.
Second, I will not donate money to the DNC or Hillary or her PACs.
Third, I'll be following my conscience when I walk into the voting booth.
Fourth, I may end up voting for HRC but I will never support her. I won't even tell anybody I voted for her because of the shame of it.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)She exemplifies nothing I believe in. From where I stand, she and her husband both are the exact reason money should have been kept out of politics, the entirety of why I believe congresspeople and senators both need term limits, the exact reason I believe being in government should not be as lucrative a moneymaker as it is, because these people stop caring about the common man. When you can look down on everyone else, and literally say "we came, we saw, he died", and then laugh about it-- even after a goddamn human being got literally sodomized with a goddamn bayonet, there are problems.
I mean, yeah, Gaddafi was a dictator, but under his rule, Libya was shockingly peaceful, and shockingly prosperous! And then a human being gets assraped with a knife and people here are there like "oh so you're defending a dictator now" fuck off with that noise. I don't care if you're a King or Queen, a Dictator or a President-- that was still a human fucking being.
Money has made our politicians into sociopaths. The Clintons are my enemy. But Trump is worse.
icecreamfan
(115 posts)I'm thinking I'd like a candidate who will actually take aggressive steps to combat global warming and keep a good amount of the remaining carbon fuels in the ground. I'm thinking I'd like a candidate who doesn't use a corporate backed super pac. I'm thinking I'm sick of the US getting involved in civil wars around the world. I want someone who is honest and trustworthy too, and my vote will reflect that.