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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:22 PM May 2016

Hillary's foreign policy scares me. We will be at war for another 4-8 years.

Middle East and other conflicts will expand and we will be dragged further into them.

Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan...

That is what we're looking forward to.

When do people just get tired of all the killing and demand that our own country be treated better?

A start has been made with those demands, I know. Bernie Sanders was not that much more viable on paper than Kucinich, but look at how much better he did. That is because of the changing political climate. But still... the idea of a foreign policy by someone that we already know is a war hawk with a reckless disregard for long-term effects (even short-term ones actually) just scares and pisses me off.

Big fucking sigh.

73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hillary's foreign policy scares me. We will be at war for another 4-8 years. (Original Post) Bonobo May 2016 OP
arent you glad bernie has voted to spend billions on the arms merchants like lockheed? nt msongs May 2016 #1
Bernie as president, would not bring us to needless war. Bonobo May 2016 #4
Sanders will not end the drone war. joshcryer May 2016 #18
You should read more deeply into the way he stated it. Bonobo Jun 2016 #25
I can't read minds. joshcryer Jun 2016 #33
Obama seemed like a lot of things before he entered office. Kentonio Jun 2016 #64
your opinion is not fact. bernie voting for continuous killing and MIC profits is fact nt msongs May 2016 #19
Where Is The Honesty? CorporatistNation Jun 2016 #24
Will Bernie Sanders be making foreign policy decisions? Scootaloo May 2016 #12
Do you know how sad that kind of argument is. Clinton is loved by Richard Perle and the neocons rhett o rick Jun 2016 #34
She'll just take her handy little... ReRe Jun 2016 #57
Hillary's foreign policy scares me as well. CaliforniaPeggy May 2016 #2
And arms dealer. CentralMass Jun 2016 #30
Maybe we can introduce them to fracking? chwaliszewski May 2016 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author bahrbearian Jun 2016 #28
Then she can start making speeches to military contractors AgingAmerican May 2016 #5
Doesn't have to. They gave huge donations without speeches. JudyM May 2016 #20
Are you advocating isolationism? What do you propose we do in the Middle East? YouDig May 2016 #6
Complex solutions have worked so well pscot May 2016 #17
How about we stop killing innocent people. JRLeft May 2016 #22
War is Peace. stone space Jun 2016 #60
Trump's foreign policy is what should scare you KingFlorez May 2016 #7
It does. It does. nt Bonobo May 2016 #8
They blame Hillary for Iraq CorkySt.Clair May 2016 #10
Oh we blame Bush. We just can't pretend that Clinton had no role. Scootaloo May 2016 #16
Ab-so-fucking-lutely correct. nt JEB Jun 2016 #23
I think you missed all the years here where we did just that, and tried to have him impeached Hydra Jun 2016 #36
As your fellow dead ender posted, it's about blaming Hillary now. CorkySt.Clair Jun 2016 #37
Yeah...holding her accountable for her past votes and statements... TCJ70 Jun 2016 #71
Sen Sanders foreign policy knowledge isn't as scary as Hillary's hawkish experience. But then rhett o rick Jun 2016 #35
Ooooga Boooga! Dem2 May 2016 #9
Highly sophisticated point you 'make.' elleng Jun 2016 #55
Funny how the O/P's can't answer Dem2 Jun 2016 #72
War profits down from Bush era Skink May 2016 #11
Don't forget the Ukraine-Baltics-Georgia and Plan Colombia. PufPuf23 May 2016 #13
She's simply too willing to go to the military solution Bonobo May 2016 #14
Clinton believes in the model of cooperation between BootinUp May 2016 #15
She gets into her work. CentralMass Jun 2016 #31
I guess you think that is serious discussion. BootinUp Jun 2016 #32
I can entertain some serious discussion but we both have our mind made up on the matter CentralMass Jun 2016 #38
Hillary did not support the invasion of Iraq. More non-serious discussion BootinUp Jun 2016 #39
True. Bush ordered U.N. Weapons inspector, Hans Blix and crew out of Iraq oasis Jun 2016 #40
Here is one of her speeches. CentralMass Jun 2016 #41
Here's the full 20 minutes. Not a 1 minute clip designed to distort. BootinUp Jun 2016 #42
Well thank you. I did not cherry pick mine. It came up when I searched. CentralMass Jun 2016 #43
The bottom link is worth a read anyway. nt BootinUp Jun 2016 #45
Let's not let facts get in the way treestar Jun 2016 #68
If you give it, she will come. EndElectoral May 2016 #21
Absolutely fucking vulgar! Raster Jun 2016 #27
Trump should scare you MORE MFM008 Jun 2016 #26
Both scare me the same. 840high Jun 2016 #29
Then you must be a white dude. JTFrog Jun 2016 #44
Hello - I'm a woman. 840high Jun 2016 #46
I think you just indeed did that -thanks azurnoir Jun 2016 #47
Yes, I am unapologetically calling out anyone who claims JTFrog Jun 2016 #48
she both scared her but once again your reply azurnoir Jun 2016 #49
You can repost it as many times as you want. JTFrog Jun 2016 #50
How do you feel you have the authority to tell women what we can and can not afford as you did in azurnoir Jun 2016 #51
Nope it is fact. JTFrog Jun 2016 #52
End of what? as I said what makes you think you have the authority to tell women as group azurnoir Jun 2016 #54
I also could have said "if indeed that poster is a woman" JTFrog Jun 2016 #56
what game, I do not know your gender azurnoir Jun 2016 #58
Yes we will, it's my #2 reason for opposing her. elleng Jun 2016 #53
Same reason really Depaysement Jun 2016 #61
Her foreign policy scares me too. icecreamfan Jun 2016 #59
+1 Depaysement Jun 2016 #62
4-8 more years of treasury looting by the 1% war hawks! Cobalt Violet Jun 2016 #63
It scares. And saddens me. suppression of Latin america lostnfound Jun 2016 #65
trumps message is we be nuked in 2.... beachbum bob Jun 2016 #66
But she is so experienced. Broward Jun 2016 #67
Oh right. All these years of being breathlessly assured that Obama was a Trojan Horse warmonger. betsuni Jun 2016 #69
You are already seeing "Democrats" enthusiastically shilling for wars and the TPP. djean111 Jun 2016 #70
Bernie's is worse. He says he wants the US to destroy ISIS. ucrdem Jun 2016 #73

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
4. Bernie as president, would not bring us to needless war.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:26 PM
May 2016

And if you're honest, you will admit it likely that Hillary will.

IF you're honest, I said.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
25. You should read more deeply into the way he stated it.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:11 AM
Jun 2016

I strongly suspect he did not want to go too much into criticism and was tacking slightly right in order to not be seen as loony (in the loony political climate we are in)

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
33. I can't read minds.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:08 AM
Jun 2016

Obama seemed awfully like an anti war candidate. It appears intelligence changed his mind.

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
24. Where Is The Honesty?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:09 AM
Jun 2016

e.g., MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
12. Will Bernie Sanders be making foreign policy decisions?
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:30 PM
May 2016

Is Clinton going ot make him Secretary of State or something?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
34. Do you know how sad that kind of argument is. Clinton is loved by Richard Perle and the neocons
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:12 AM
Jun 2016

and Sen Sanders isn't. The neocons and the MIC know that Clinton will want to show how tough she is and they love it.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
57. She'll just take her handy little...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:16 AM
Jun 2016

... PNAC flow chart out and say: "I want this one, and this one, and this one, and...." Foreign Policy will be her forte. She'll have a hotline straight to Henry. It'll be Iron Lady 2.0.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,569 posts)
2. Hillary's foreign policy scares me as well.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:24 PM
May 2016

That is a big issue for me.

I am really tired of our country being the world's policeman.

I wish we could cut the "defense" budget way back and use that money for our own problems, of which there are many.

Response to chwaliszewski (Reply #3)

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
20. Doesn't have to. They gave huge donations without speeches.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:47 PM
May 2016

Though I guess getting speeches provides cover for bigger donations.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
6. Are you advocating isolationism? What do you propose we do in the Middle East?
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:27 PM
May 2016

We're not really "at war" now. Vietnam was "at war". WW2 was big time "at war". Compared to either of those, the amount of military commitment we have is nothing.

We can't just sit here and pretend everything will be great if the US isn't involved. Simplistic solutions don't work.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
17. Complex solutions have worked so well
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:38 PM
May 2016

Enough is enough. Let the Arabs work it out themselves. Or not.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
7. Trump's foreign policy is what should scare you
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:27 PM
May 2016

The man is open to using nuclear weapons and wants to sit down with North Korea (who endorsed him and slammed Clinton). This idea that Clinton would start all these wars is dramatically overblown.

Also what is scary is Sanders lack of foreign policy knowledge. A lack of knowledge can get the nation dragged into a lot of trouble. More trouble than you could imagine...

 

CorkySt.Clair

(1,507 posts)
10. They blame Hillary for Iraq
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:29 PM
May 2016

Not W, the guy in charge at the time. Most are far too obtuse to see Trump for what he is.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
16. Oh we blame Bush. We just can't pretend that Clinton had no role.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:36 PM
May 2016

Or Kerry. Or Feinstein. Or the other Democrats who all supped at Bush's trough like starving pigs. They backstabbed the party, fucked over their voters - and got no small number of them killed or maimed in the process - to say nothing of the carnage wrought in the middle east.

Bush isn't running for president again. Nor is Kerry. Feinstein hasn't indicated any desire to do so, either. Nor have other pro-war democrats. Clinton however, is running for president. Do you expect a free pass on her role?

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
36. I think you missed all the years here where we did just that, and tried to have him impeached
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:14 AM
Jun 2016

Our Party leadership blocked us, and the current President gave them a virtual pardon.

And Hillary should own her stumping and vote- there was a large contingent of Dems who didn't want to go with the Bush Admin, but she did the heavy lifting needed to sway public opinion that the blank check to the Bush Admin was the right thing to do.

She and our party leadership own it. A whole mountain of tortured and dead people, a middle east in perpetual flames and trillions wasted on a 1% who cant be bothered to run the country properly.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
35. Sen Sanders foreign policy knowledge isn't as scary as Hillary's hawkish experience. But then
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:14 AM
Jun 2016

her supporters favor the MIC. Anything but helping those struggling among us.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
9. Ooooga Boooga!
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:28 PM
May 2016

You can scare errr, nobody here, because we're all informed voters, into falling for this hypothetical worst-case scenario crap.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
72. Funny how the O/P's can't answer
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:47 AM
Jun 2016

Also, your post makes no sense - lots of Trump voters endorse Bernie - what are you trying to say?

PufPuf23

(8,764 posts)
13. Don't forget the Ukraine-Baltics-Georgia and Plan Colombia.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:32 PM
May 2016

Hillary Clinton has extensive involvement (that could be termed aggressive) in Colombia and Ukraine.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
14. She's simply too willing to go to the military solution
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:34 PM
May 2016

and there is plenty of evidence to back that up.

It's not as if this is mere speculation.

BootinUp

(47,136 posts)
15. Clinton believes in the model of cooperation between
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:35 PM
May 2016

nations in solving problems. She has pledged to use the military as a last resort. I fully expect her to honor that pledge. You may or may not know this, but France and England said they were going into Libya with or without us. She was not the commander and chief, and I believe things would have been different had she been. In other words, once the decision to do something was made, she had limited input in the what. I do believe she will have the best people advising her, that she will listen to all points of view, the best diplomatic support, and she will prioritize non-military solutions first per her committment.

Edit: corrected as I typed Syria when I was thinking Libya, doh.

BootinUp

(47,136 posts)
32. I guess you think that is serious discussion.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:44 AM
Jun 2016

And I mean both the content of the video, and the fact you posted it in reply to my points.

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
38. I can entertain some serious discussion but we both have our mind made up on the matter
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:24 AM
Jun 2016

The U.S. has made some very bad decision in the mideast. One if the worst was the ill conceived and planned invasion of Iraq. A plan that the General’s who knew the region the best said was folly. They were dismissed and replaced. Their calls not to do it went unheeded as did their warnings that it would take 300k to 400k troops at the 4 points of the compass along with the right mix of civilian experts. They also said that it was critical that the non-hard line Sunni militarily (soldiers) be reconstituted as soon as possible to give them a stake in new country or you would have 150k or so armed men looking for a paycheck to feed their families.

They were ignored. Donald Rumsfeld laughed and said he could do it with 75k troops and that it would be a "cake walk. "We would be in and out olin a few weeks and Iraqi oil would pay for it They disbanded the Sunni Army and installed a pro Iranian Shia controlled government in a a country where the Sunni'so had been the dominate military force for century's

How many years did that war last and how many trillions did it cost. 30k men and women profoundly wounded from memory 6k dead with over half a million dead Iraqi's.

This was a monumental cluster f.ck. A human tragedy. It created the environment for ISIS to form and grow. Add Syria and Libya. Libya is a hell by any measure and the entire regions has been indiscriminately armed. It' a powder keg

We have a Congress to help prevent mistakes like these. Those who voted for the Iraq war with that plan lead by the trio of Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld and their cronies did not do their jobs.

So IMO Hillary is always on the wrong side of bad and costly military decisions.

BootinUp

(47,136 posts)
39. Hillary did not support the invasion of Iraq. More non-serious discussion
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:31 AM
Jun 2016

from you.

As long as you blame her instead of Bush who lied us into that war you are right its not possible for us to discuss this.

oasis

(49,369 posts)
40. True. Bush ordered U.N. Weapons inspector, Hans Blix and crew out of Iraq
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:45 AM
Jun 2016

to begin "Shock and Awe".

Senators were led to believe war would be a last resort.

These details seem to be conveniently forgotten by the AntiHills.

BootinUp

(47,136 posts)
42. Here's the full 20 minutes. Not a 1 minute clip designed to distort.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jun 2016






Here's a write-up further explaining the facts and her explanations for her vote:


http://www.hillaryhq.com/2015/05/hillary-clinton-never-supported.html

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
43. Well thank you. I did not cherry pick mine. It came up when I searched.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:09 AM
Jun 2016

However, it does not change my opinion or what I believe to be the facts. Hillary is a Hawk. She. IMO gets into this. She is now a connected insider. I would go so far as to day that Bill and her through the their political. Wall Street. Military. Media and Clinton Foundation contacts are global power broker's. I think it steers her decision making in a negative way.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
68. Let's not let facts get in the way
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:33 AM
Jun 2016

People want to believe Hillary is a "warmonger" and nobody should interfere with that delusion!

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
21. If you give it, she will come.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:54 PM
May 2016
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/hillary-clinton-foundation-state-arms-deals

Hillary Clinton Oversaw US Arms Deals to Clinton Foundation Donors
An investigation finds that countries that gave to the foundation saw an increase in State Department-approved arms sales.

In 2011, the State Department cleared an enormous arms deal: Led by Boeing, a consortium of American defense contractors would deliver $29 billion worth of advanced fighter jets to Saudi Arabia, despite concerns over the kingdom's troublesome human rights record. In the years before Hillary Clinton became secretary of state, Saudi Arabia had contributed $10 million to the Clinton Foundation, and just two months before the jet deal was finalized, Boeing donated $900,000 to the Clinton Foundation, according to an International Business Times investigation released Tuesday.

The Saudi transaction is just one example of nations and companies that had donated to the Clinton Foundation seeing an increase in arms deals while Hillary Clinton oversaw the State Department. IBT found that between October 2010 and September 2012, State approved $165 billion in commercial arms sales to 20 nations that had donated to the foundation, plus another $151 billion worth of Pentagon-brokered arms deals to 16 of those countries—a 143 percent increase over the same time frame under the Bush Administration. The sales boosted the military power of authoritarian regimes such as Qatar, Algeria, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, and Oman, which, like Saudi Arabia, had been criticized by the department for human rights abuses.

From the IBT investigation:

As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton also accused some of these countries of failing to marshal a serious and sustained campaign to confront terrorism. In a December 2009 State Department cable published by Wikileaks, Clinton complained of "an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority." She declared that "Qatar's overall level of CT cooperation with the U.S. is considered the worst in the region." She said the Kuwaiti government was "less inclined to take action against Kuwait-based financiers and facilitators plotting attacks." She noted that "UAE-based donors have provided financial support to a variety of terrorist groups." All of these countries donated to the Clinton Foundation and received increased weapons export authorizations from the Clinton-run State Department...

In all, governments and corporations involved in the arms deals approved by Clinton’s State Department have delivered between $54 million and $141 million to the Clinton Foundation as well as hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments to the Clinton family, according to foundation and State Department records.

The following tables created by the International Business Times show the flow of money and arms deals involving 20 nations, the Clinton Foundation, and the State Department: (see at link)

Raster

(20,998 posts)
27. Absolutely fucking vulgar!
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:16 AM
Jun 2016

There is far more to this...far more.

In all, governments and corporations involved in the arms deals approved by Clinton’s State Department have delivered between $54 million and $141 million to the Clinton Foundation as well as hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments to the Clinton family, according to foundation and State Department records.
 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
44. Then you must be a white dude.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:11 AM
Jun 2016

Women and minorities cannot afford a Trump presidency. But, yeah, go ahead and show your true colors.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
47. I think you just indeed did that -thanks
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:27 AM
Jun 2016
JTFrog
44. Then you must be a white dude.
View profile
Women and minorities cannot afford a Trump presidency. But, yeah, go ahead and show your true colors.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512098949#post44
 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
48. Yes, I am unapologetically calling out anyone who claims
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:51 AM
Jun 2016

there is no difference between Clinton and Trump. It is an absurd statement reflecting irrational hatred and callous disregard of what women and minorities will face with Trump. To claim Clinton is the same is beyond ignorant.

Welcome to my true colors.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
49. she both scared her but once again your reply
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:54 AM
Jun 2016
Star Member JTFrog (12,201 posts)
44. Then you must be a white dude.

Women and minorities cannot afford a Trump presidency. But, yeah, go ahead and show your true colors.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2099553

how do you feel you're qualified to tell women as a group what we can and can not afford? IF you yourself are a woman you have your own as to what you can and can not afford , but opinions may differ
 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
50. You can repost it as many times as you want.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:56 AM
Jun 2016

She said both scared her the "same".

I wouldn't hesitate to post that reply again to anyone who makes that claim.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
51. How do you feel you have the authority to tell women what we can and can not afford as you did in
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:59 AM
Jun 2016

that comment? Even if you yourself are a woman it is your own opinion and nothing more

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
54. End of what? as I said what makes you think you have the authority to tell women as group
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:03 AM
Jun 2016

what we can and can not afford? IF indeed you are a woman then you can only make that judgement for yourself

Star Member JTFrog (12,201 posts)
44. Then you must be a white dude.

Women and minorities cannot afford a Trump presidency. But, yeah, go ahead and show your true colors.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2099553
 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
56. I also could have said "if indeed that poster is a woman"
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:14 AM
Jun 2016

after she said so, just like the little game you are playing with me, but that would just be downright nasty. I don't need any authority to point out the obvious effects of a Trump presidency for women and minorities. I also have no authority to keep people from posting such ignorant sentiments. I do, however, currently have the right to call that shit out until the admins tell me I can't or ban me.



icecreamfan

(115 posts)
59. Her foreign policy scares me too.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:20 AM
Jun 2016

Also, it's always very sad to see "democrats" get on board with these reckless and counterproductive regime change efforts that always end up making us less safe and leaving the other countries worse off than they were.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
66. trumps message is we be nuked in 2....
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:15 AM
Jun 2016

I'll take what we got if the other choice is full out nuclear war

betsuni

(25,449 posts)
69. Oh right. All these years of being breathlessly assured that Obama was a Trojan Horse warmonger.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:03 AM
Jun 2016

Secret kill lists, indefinite detention, chuckling at drone hits, itching to start World War 3. And now the same story with Clinton. Crying wolf for years and years makes people tired.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
70. You are already seeing "Democrats" enthusiastically shilling for wars and the TPP.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:21 AM
Jun 2016

With Hillary as president, you will see "Democrats" enthusiastically embracing cuts to Social Security and Medicare and safety nets and further corporate giveaways like the ACA and even more of our money given to Wall Street.

Yeah, I am scared, too, and filled with revulsion. Well done, Third Way and PNAC! Well done!

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
73. Bernie's is worse. He says he wants the US to destroy ISIS.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:49 AM
Jun 2016
Together, leading the world, this country will rid our planet of this barbarous organization called ISIS.


http://time.com/4113434/transcript-read-the-full-text-of-the-second-democratic-debate/

That's a lot of war right there.
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