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Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:46 PM Jun 2016

Reminder, we won't have a nominee until the convention

Even then, it really isn't over until election day. If Clinton wins the nomination at the convention, Sanders can just keep running until election day. But wait, the electoral college doesn't vote until January 6th, 2017. Sanders could convince just 270 electors to switch their vote and back him for president instead. However, this really isn't over until Chief Justice swears in the new president. Sanders could convince the president elect to step aside and have the Chief Justice swear Sanders in instead. But actually, it isn't truly over until the new president moves into the White House. Sanders could convince the public to block all roads to the White House where the newly sworn in president is planning on traveling to get to the White House. Sanders could then slip in the back entrance and take over as the new Emperor of America.

See it isn't even close to being over. They want him to drop out almost a year before this thing is even close to being figured out. This is the height of ridiculousness! At least give him a chance! Give him another year to sort this out!

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Reminder, we won't have a nominee until the convention (Original Post) Doctor Jack Jun 2016 OP
The indictment will be handed down before any of this Skink Jun 2016 #1
Hillary Has Not One Soul To Blame Other Than Herself! CorporatistNation Jun 2016 #2
I've been hearing the charges are coming down "any day now" for 8 months Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #5
Wish in one hand ... nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #19
. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #20
I had this made just for you, lol DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #21
Awesome.....LOVE IT!!!!! beaglelover Jun 2016 #34
We will have a nominee on the evening of June 7th Tarc Jun 2016 #3
Yes we will! pandr32 Jun 2016 #29
/cheer Tarc Jun 2016 #31
Don't forget the time between November 8 and December 19 when the electoral college meets. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #4
We can rush the state conventions that certify the electors and demand they put Sanders loyalists in Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #7
pass around whatever it is you're smoking dlwickham Jun 2016 #13
Even William Weld today MFM008 Jun 2016 #6
For the purposes of this website, yes we will. As a more general statement... stevenleser Jun 2016 #8
But what if Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #10
Asking for the primaries to last until the convention is not crazy talk... Joe the Revelator Jun 2016 #9
If Sanders can start swinging superdelegates en masse in the next week or two then god speed Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #12
Chuck: She couldn't even get confirmed as AG right now Skink Jun 2016 #14
I've heard about "Clinton Panic" setting in for almost a year now Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #15
. Brickbat Jun 2016 #11
Actually, even if Hillary wins and is president for 8 years it still isn't over Happyhippychick Jun 2016 #16
Reminder LoverOfLiberty Jun 2016 #17
Well lmbradford Jun 2016 #18
The press has always counted superdelegates in declaring the presumptive nominee is past primaries Gothmog Jun 2016 #22
All true but my original post was dripping in sarcasm Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #23
K & R Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #24
I'm fine with her being the presumptive nominee on June 7. nt anotherproletariat Jun 2016 #25
This is fantastic!!! NanceGreggs Jun 2016 #26
And you can bet that all of these ideas will be pushed KingFlorez Jun 2016 #27
Oh yes we will workinclasszero Jun 2016 #28
It took till about halfway through. Eko Jun 2016 #30
LOL, Nice Work firebrand80 Jun 2016 #32
EPIC post man! LOVE IT!!!! beaglelover Jun 2016 #33

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
2. Hillary Has Not One Soul To Blame Other Than Herself!
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:56 PM
Jun 2016

e.g., Do we need more of THIS?

e.g., MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
5. I've been hearing the charges are coming down "any day now" for 8 months
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:04 PM
Jun 2016

Everyday I hear "they charges are coming", "keep an eye out next week, this could be big", "the indictment it coming before xxxx event and it will clinch it for Sanders". And yet....crickets. We are essentially saying that the angels of heaven will come down any day now and intervene on Bernie's behalf, just you wait.

It sounds a lot like that tv cliche of "I haven't seen dad since he went out to buy cigarettes 8 years ago but I'm sure he'll be home any second now." I mean if we are really waiting on some phantom indictment and fringe right wing sources predicting its imminent arrival, it might be time to just give up the ghost on this campaign.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
4. Don't forget the time between November 8 and December 19 when the electoral college meets.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:02 PM
Jun 2016

Sure, the media and nearly every person in the country will be referring to the November "winner" as President-Elect, but those electors won't actually meet until December 19. No doubt some of them...most of them...*all* of them will defy the the November results. You can take that to the piggy bank...you know, the one where the pigs fly.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
7. We can rush the state conventions that certify the electors and demand they put Sanders loyalists in
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:05 PM
Jun 2016

As long as their is a breath in my body and delusions in my brain, this thing isn't over.

MFM008

(19,808 posts)
6. Even William Weld today
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:04 PM
Jun 2016

Said there has to be INTENT before you can indict. There will be no indictments.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
8. For the purposes of this website, yes we will. As a more general statement...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:05 PM
Jun 2016

this has always been the case and yet General election season has always started in June.

There is nothing special about this year. We will know who both nominees are in June.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
10. But what if
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:07 PM
Jun 2016

The democrats find a few hundred superdelegates under the couch cushions after June 7th? Then this thing blows wide open again.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
9. Asking for the primaries to last until the convention is not crazy talk...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:06 PM
Jun 2016

...your slippery slope argument on the other hand...

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
12. If Sanders can start swinging superdelegates en masse in the next week or two then god speed
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:13 PM
Jun 2016

But I have seen zero evidence that he is even going to have 1 or 2 switch from clinton to him, let alone hundreds. Unless he has some secret, foolproof plan to unleash the floodgates of endorsements and snatch the nomination from Clinton, after she reaches the magic number, his odds of somehow winning the nomination would probably be around 0.000000000000000001%. That just seems like a textbook definition of grandstanding at that point.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
15. I've heard about "Clinton Panic" setting in for almost a year now
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:31 PM
Jun 2016

Here's a good video on the subject...from October.



And yet she is cruising to the nomination, ahead by millions of votes, hundreds of pledged delegates and nearly 800 delegates overall. If you say Clinton is in panic mode then I can't even fathom the pit of despair that Sanders must be in right now.


And who the fuck is "Chuck"? Chuck Todd? Why should I give two shits what that little wiener thinks?

Happyhippychick

(8,379 posts)
16. Actually, even if Hillary wins and is president for 8 years it still isn't over
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:33 PM
Jun 2016

Because it's rigged. 😀

In fact I'm not even sure Bill Clinton was actually elected fairly.

lmbradford

(517 posts)
18. Well
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:09 PM
Jun 2016

Bernie could still win big and end up with more pledged delegates, in which case Supers will switch. They did for Obama. The Supers will not want to thwart the will of the people. Long shot I know but still a mathmatical possibility. His whole campaign has been a long shot, so we will see.

Gothmog

(145,168 posts)
22. The press has always counted superdelegates in declaring the presumptive nominee is past primaries
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:28 PM
Jun 2016

You are ignoring history and want special rules just for Sanders. In every primary contest since the creation of super delegates, the winner was declared the presumptive nominee based on the inclusion of super delegates. That fact that this is not favorable to Sandes does not matter http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/29/1532358/-What-Does-It-Mean-to-Clinch-the-Nomination-When-Superdelegates-Are-Involved

?1464557557

After reading a number of impassioned defenses of why the Democratic presidential nomination should not be called next week on June 7th, I got curious. What’s the history here, since the superdelegates were added to the process? When a Democratic candidate hits the magic number of pledged delegates plus superdelegates, are they the nominee?

The answer: history says the first person to get to the magic number is the presumptive nominee, and says it unambiguously, even if the losers often disagree.

Here’s how it has gone since the superdelegates were added to the process.....

Summary

Anyway, I started this research 12 hours ago to answer a question for myself, so that as everyone on TV is spinning things this way and that on June 7th I have some context. What, if anything, have I learned?

First, most non-incumbent candidates have needed superdelegates to win, and the history of superdelegates has been that once a Democrat hits the magic number and becomes the nominee, superdelegates are more likely to flow to the nominee than from them.

Also, in the history of the superdelegates, they have always ended up supporting the decision of the pledged delegates, and their most important contribution has been to amplify leads of the pledged delegate winner so that they can be assured success on a first ballot, and avoid the sort of messy convention that harms a general campaign.

The major thing I’ve learned is that the press declares, and has always declared, the winner after they hit the magic number, and has done so in far more nebulous circumstances than this. Even in 1984, in which Hart won by a number of other metrics, in which the delegate count was the arbiter, and Mondale announced himself as the nominee, even with 38 percent of the popular vote to Hart’s 36 percent—even then, Hart may have claimed he still had a cunning plan, but no one begrudged Mondale the fact he was, for all intents and purposes, the nominee.

When you think about it, that simply has to happen. Things need to get done, and they need the nominee to do them. Except for Reagan in 1976, who chose a running mate after Gerald Ford was made the nominee, there aren’t a whole lot of non-nominee candidates going to the convention with their own vice president picked out. You get to do that because the numbers say you’re the nominee.

Meeting this number also allows the nominee to do the work of campaigning before the convention, establishing a message, building capacity on the ground, etc.

The press, for its part, has always understood this, from 1984 onward, and has named the nominee (or the “presumptive nominee”) the minute the candidate crosses the line with their combination of pledged and supers, and usually said something to the effect that they had “clinched” the nomination. They did that when Mondale had won far fewer states than Hart. They did that when Dukakis did not have 50 percent of the pledged delegates. They did that when Obama had not won the popular vote (yes, I know, Michigan—I hope we’re still not fighting this?).

This is a well researched article and confirms that the nomination process will be over on Tuesday June 7, 2016 when the results of the New Jersey primary are announced.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
23. All true but my original post was dripping in sarcasm
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:36 PM
Jun 2016

But all valid points against someone that actually believes the superdelegates don't matter this time around.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
28. Oh yes we will
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:30 AM
Jun 2016

The news media is gonna call it for Hillary on the 7th before the polls close in California.

Eko

(7,282 posts)
30. It took till about halfway through.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:32 AM
Jun 2016

My wtf meter kept getting higher and higher and then I laughed. Still am. Great job.

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