As I predicted, Trump is going after Hillary from the left on jobs

[adigal]

As I predicted, Trump is outflanking Hillary on the left with jobs. In his last speech, he said that Hillary wants to send the remaining jobs in the US overseas with trade agreements, finishing the job that her husband started with NAFTA.

As usual, no response from Hillary on this. She needs to hit back hard on this, as this is the issue which will get Trump support from the threatened middle class voters.

[tonyt53]

1. Hell, everybody knew that was coming - he has been doing ti since day one

HRC has all summer and fall to hit back on that issue.

[adigal]

2. Well, over on the daily kos there is no talk of it - in fact, they think her attack on Trump U

is going to blow him out of the water. Jobs and NAFTA are a lot more understandable to the low info voter.

[vintx]

4. How much does Trump U affect the average person?

How much do trade agreements and ever-increasing numbers of H1-B visas?

[yeoman6987]

9. Ouch. Good point.

The problem with going after trump U is that many students from traditional universities have 100 grand in debt and no good jobs or any job at all. I think Hillary should still go after trump on it but some may say but success is not a guaranree in any educational institution.

[adigal]

14. Yes, excellent point. Trump U is not something the average Joe even understands

We all talk to people from other countries when we call Help Lines.

[SpareribSP]

41. Very hard to care about Trump U.

Everyone already knows Trump is an asshole. To some, that's his charm.

Tje disconnect really is that people don't think Trump will ne an asshole to them, and that's how it's made to stick... The being predatory angle.

[tonyt53]

53. Uh, Trump U is a gift from the anybody but Trump GOP group.

Hillary has lots of other ammo for later this summer and fall. This story out now is just having fun at the expense of Trump, and he isn't handling it well.

[SpareribSP]

58. Oh, for sure.

Just making things stick with Trump is very difficult. It's definitely bad for Trump, but I think it takes some additional framing to have it be fully effective. I think I explained it poorly, need more coffee.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Fraudulent promises by a college? Say it ain't so!

This, at risk of understatement, isn't an argument which most voters will find surprising or novel.

[libdem4life]

55. Yeah...a Start Up didn't make it? Just Wow. That describes

about 80 percent of them, if not more. People mortgage their homes, pull in money from friends and family, get expensive loans...start ups are the American Dream. It's just they usually don't have the executive experience or misjudging the needed depth of financing...and I'm betting that was the case in the Vermont university start up.

Same for Trump U. Another start-up that didn't make it. Large sums of money lost.

[Carolina]

70. The flip flops are so appropriate

[mac56]

3. There's more than just one issue on which Trump can outflank her on the left.

Bernie, not so much.

[beachbum bob]

5. if you forget trump outsources his product lines overseas

and the use of low paid workers on his construction sites and fighting all attempts of his people organizing....as long as nothing in mentioned...might fool some one


long time between now and election and you don't waste your powder so early on every thing.....trumps true vulnerability is on what he considers to be his EXCEPTIONAL "business expertise"...thats the focus for next couple of months. TRUMP U...TRUMP airlines...his bankruptcies....and ALL the suppliers....shareholders and people he harmed financially.....

[hollowdweller]

39. Yeah why is that not being played up more???

[SpareribSP]

45. Because it's seen as him being a businessman.

Last edited Thu Jun 2, 2016, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Didn't stick in the Republican debates. He took the "I know all the loopholes, I used them, so I know how to fix them" line to deflect. I think that it would just meet the same response.

[libdem4life]

56. Because the politicians have Grand Trade Programs...and get the

public to fund them....and watch and often train their jobs to go away. Trump, not so much.

This is not a good argument against Trump.

[geek tragedy]

6. Trump is attacking her from the Paleocon, isolationist, xenophobic right.

His foreign policy and trade policy is that of Pat Buchanan.

[MohRokTah]

11. ^^^ This, right here

A man who outsources jobs abroad has no credibility on the issue, too.

[libdem4life]

59. Yes, but what about a government that does so on a global scale?

I'm still waiting for a good anti-Trump argument. I don't want him to win, but that won't happen when he gets attacked by the things the government does.

[adigal]

15. Sure, you know that and call it that

But what Average Joe hears is that Hillary was for NAFTA and will be for the TPP. Their jobs. Their neighbor's jobs.

Putting our heads in the sand as to the effectiveness of this attack is dangerous.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. Remember when liberals were against NAFTA? Those were good times.

[adigal]

42. I vaguely remember that. :) nt

[JRLeft]

28. He's all over the place, he's a progressive, right wing fascist, racist,

xenophobic buffoon. He does a couple of things really well, one is marketing himself and branding his opponents. The second one is changing the narrative and staying on offense.

[adigal]

34. Yes, branding himself and picking one word or phrase to mock the other with

His specialties. Sadly, in low information America, these succeed.

[pampango]

87. He is only to the 'left' on trade if Herbert Hoover was to the 'left' of FDR on trade.

You are right. Trump is an isolationist conservative in the Herbert Hoover, Pat Buchanan mode. He is not to the 'left' of any Democrat on anything.

[ancianita]

7. Interesting. As a guy with no public office record, he can come from any fuckin' where.

[Dem2]

8. Trump is whacko insane and there's many ways to flank him

He has this one particular issue he might think he can make headway on, but he's going to be hammered as a failure, a sleaze (Trump U) and wacko on torture and nukes. Allowing him to "have" this issue is kind of funny, you give him infinitely more credit and are wearing blinders to boot. This is short-sighted IMO.

[emulatorloo]

10. He makes his clothing line in China.

He cheered for a 2008 style economic meltdown so he could make money off the suffering of others.

He can "run to the left" as much as he'd like.

[adigal]

18. OK, I hope your certainty lets you sleep at night

Because my worries about Dems never getting it keep me up at night.

[emulatorloo]

24. Nothing in life is certain.

However I am pretty sure Donald Trump's actual record and business practices will be contrasted with his empty and meaningless "Leftist" statements.

[DookDook]

80. But people think that the fact that he gamed the system means he's smart.

When I talk to people about how the fossil fuel industry receives government subsidies and how little they pay in taxes they tell me that that's how business works. Corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to make as much money for their stockholders as possible. They see it the same way that a lawyer will defend a client, even if they're guilty, because that's what they have to do.

So when I tell people about how Trump has stuff made in China, they say, "Well, isn't it cheaper to make stuff there?" and "Well, I don't want to have to spend a lot of money on t-shirts, I like spending five bucks at Wal-Mart and getting a pack of t-shirts." So when you tell them about how he was banking on shorting the economy because the deregulation of the banking industry....What did you expect him to do? Walk away from the table with all that money there that they could make? He would have been sued by his stockholders and ousted as the CEO. That's why the Government was supposed to be looking out for Main Street and us common folk and not looking for some lobbyist payday after they left public office....but that's why I'm considered a socialist, because I think that the government should be there to tell big business 'No!' when they threaten to destroy the economy or the planet, but hey, I'm a dreamer.

That's why I want Sanders as the Democratic nominee, he's the one who is willing to fight for us and to actually regulate business and get the poisons influence of money out of our election process.

[Mass]

12. Why from the left? Protectionism is not a left or right idea.

This has to do with nationalism and nationalism can be from the left or the right.

I agree with your criticism of Hillary Clinton on these issues (and jobs issues in general), but we have to be clear that Trump is not attacking from the left. His other positions relative to jobs are not left wing, far from it.

[qdouble]

13. I didn't know that isolationism, protectionism and nationalism were inherently leftist principles

[adigal]

16. That's how you see it. Many low info voters see it as protecting American jobs

God, this is why the Dems get their asses handed to them over and over. The Republicans understand the soundbite, the simple idea repeated over and over again. It has succeeded in history thousands of times.

Try telling the guy who lost his job to china that being against NAFTA is "isolationist" and "protectionism." They don't give a damn. They want a job.

[qdouble]

20. Low information voters aren't "left or right," they just don't understand what the issue is.

Republicans have ran on a platform of others "taking their jobs" for the longest. Being against free-trade simply isn't a left-wing philosophy.

I find it funny that many so called progressive think that working towards the common good should end at the border.

[adigal]

35. OK, so HIllary needs to get on this topic and explain it!!!

Otherwise, these misinformed people will continue to be misinformed.

[qdouble]

60. I agree that some people are attracted to nationalistic rhetoric and scapegoating on both sides...

the main point of objection is that it has nothing to do with running left. Being against trade isn't left or right directly. However, using foreign workers as a scapegoat is more often a right wing tactic.

[CorkySt.Clair]

26. Are you sure you aren't one of the low info voters yourself?

[adigal]

36. Are you sure you don't have a better response than an ad hominem attack??

Guess not. That's all you got, which is not effective with smart people.

[CorkySt.Clair]

44. and where would the smart people be exactly?

Can you point me in their direction?

[adigal]

74. No. Because you are more interested in ad hominem attacks and trying to look smart yourself

than in actual discourse.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Perhaps not, but globalization is a losing one.

It has the dual faults of being shitty politics and shitty policy.

[qdouble]

66. The fruits of left-wing nationalism is poverty and xenophobia.

Being indifferent to the vitality of workers in other nations isn't too much different than being blind to those in your own nation. It's only a mental separation based on imaginary lines.

[adigal]

75. When my neighbors can't pay their fuel bills by mid-winter, worry about those in other nations

is pretty low down on their scale of concerns. I'm sorry - many of my neighbors are barely surviving. Perhaps you live in a lovely suburb with trimmed bushes and an SUV in every driveway. We drive SUVs up here because we get 15 feet of snow a winter and we need heat because it gets to 20 to 30 below for months at at time.

Being indifferent to the suffering of your fellow Americans has been looking, sadly, like a trait of many Hillary supporters who don't have to worry about financial issues, I see.

[qdouble]

79. What you're saying is not much different than me saying...

"when other white people can't pay their fuel bills, worrying about other races is pretty low down on their scale of concerns." Nationalism is divisive. Either you care about other people or you don't. Nationalism, is tribalism. Scapegoating foreigners for American poverty is simple minded bullshit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. If you lived in a country called "white" you might have had a point.

In this country, people are suffering, including native americans whose well being is in crisis and systematically ignored.

The well being of the citizens of other countries isn't low down on the scale of concerns, they are nonexistent. The importance of global peace, health, goodwill and trade is only important to my elected officials the extent that they affect us. Citizens of other countries have elected officials who are expected to look out for them. I don't expect Justin Trudeau or Enrique Peña Nieto to waste any time at all worrying about my interests.

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. Those we elect have the responsibility for the wellbeing of US citizens. Period.

Those people on the other side of imaginary lines have very real people who are supposed to look out for them.

Tell me more about this "left wing nationalism".

[qdouble]

85. Of course the people we elect have a responsibility to American citizens...

it's a complete strawman to suggest that I said otherwise. However, we also have a moral responsibility to be concerned about the wellbeing of people worldwide. Void of that, it's a tribal movement.

Nationalism isn't progressive, and it represents movements like we saw in Cuba, China, Russia, etc. The reason why many people think communism doesn't work is that most communist movements that we can point to as being examples of failed states are nationalist. Marx was against nationalism, which is why many communist will argue we've never seen true communism.

[JVS]

63. Free trade isn't an inherently leftist principle either.

[qdouble]

64. One's free trade philosophy comes down to nationalism....there are left and right wing nationalists

I would however say that the nationalists represent the more xenophobic portion of the left. Marx would say that nationalism is about divide and conquer and that the workers of all nations should act in solidarity. Nationalists would represent more so the Cuban, Russian, xenophobic and authoritarian branch of the left.

I'd say that it's objectively less progressive to be a nationalist than an internationalist...however, I recognize that both can still represent the left.

[BootinUp]

17. Let me know when he has a fair and sane tax plan. nt

[oberliner]

19. No he's not

He is attacking her with BS like he does on every other issue.

He just makes crap up and throws it out there.

[AzDar]

21. If Hillary is the Nominee, we will lose.

[BlueStateLib]

22. You really want your kid working like this

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. 70% of those workers are now being replaced by robots

Automation will displace jobs, regardless of the cost of the labor they are displacing. The difference between economic populists and laissez faire capitalists is that the populists don't want the resulting suppression of wages.

[AgingAmerican]

23. She is to the right of Trump?

We're doomed...

[Starry Messenger]

25. She's been hitting him, the press isn't covering it.

The news broadcast his empty podium at the same time she was giving a speech to a union on his terrible labor policies and lies.

[lagomorph777]

27. She will flipflop again on TPP, so no help from her.

Her record on trade is thoroughly anti-worker.

[randome]

29. What GOP rep DOESN'T say they will supercharge the economy?

With unemployment at 5%, and Trump's own finances coming under increased scrutiny (hint: he's not even a billionaire), I don't think even low information voters will fall for his spiel.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[adigal]

38. OK. I hope you are right. But that 5% is many underemployed people, at least where I live

The good jobs are far and few between.

[randome]

54. It could always be better. Fairer. Easier to access.

But I bet Clinton's chances of freeing up infrastructure money from the GOP's greedy hands are greater than they would be with Trump. And once this country stops living a fantasy of austerity (look at what's happening to Kansas), the better we will all be.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. That's not what people are hearing.

They're hearing something which is true: globalization has harmed the US working class, and made billionnaires richer.

Whether this is something Trump is actually saying is a different question.

[B Calm]

30. How in the hell can Hillary fight back on this? She's a flawed candidate

the DNC crammed down our throats.

[adigal]

40. Her reluctance to go against the TPP is the kind of thing that will hurt her

I know people here want to pretend she's this teflon candidate, but only one person has been proven to be teflon this election season, and it's Trump.

[Orsino]

31. He's attacking her from a position of no knowledge. Not from the left. n/t

[Mr Maru]

32. All of Trump's crappola (except for the hats) is made NOT in the USA

The hats are made in SoCal with primarily immigrant labor; so good material could be mined there as well. He also imports employees to his resorts.

I don't want to see Hillary chasing Trump's tail or playing Polo! to his Marco! on issues. I'd rather she keep on busting him over the head as she sees fit and let him answer her. She'll address this when the timing is best. I trust that.

[Yavin4]

33. Republicans support trade agreements. Is he going to attack his own party as well?

Is the Republican party going to go along with re-negotiating all trade deals? Are other Republican candidates going to go along with this?

[hollowdweller]

43. The GOP is being driven to the left on economics like we were driven to the right in 80's and 90's

Trump is sort of the Bill Clinton of the GOP in that way.

[Yavin4]

65. We'll see.

He cannot re-negotiate any trade deal without congressional support.

[Joe the Revelator]

46. The problem with nominating a idelogically moderate republican like Hillary....

is that a mad man with no ideology will be able to take the left when he needs to.

[redstateblues]

57. First-use spell check. Secong-Your desperation is showing. Ask some Republicans

if they think Hillary is a Republican. I thought all you BSS contend Republicans hate Hillary. You can't have it both ways. What a ridiculous smear on someone who was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress. Get it all out of your system for the next few days. I figured you'd be in a better mood after Freddie's walk off last night.

[Joe the Revelator]

61. first if you're going to tell me to use spellcheck, you better make sure your post is pristine.

Before you edit your post: First-use spell check. Secong-Your desperation is showing. Ask some Republicans

SECOND of all: rank and file republicans hate Hillary because they have been taught too. Establishment republicans and establishment democrats are not mortal enemies and to think they are is naive.

[realmirage]

62. Bernie lost because he doesn't understand that

you don't win people over with negativity and you don't get legislation through Congress without some compromise and without trying to get along with the party that controls it. That's why the big players, like the Clintons, know their shit and Senators from Vermont yell from the sidelines.

[redstateblues]

94. The idea that Republicans and Democrats are all chummy is ridiculous.

So you want to call her a Republican but also say she's hated by Republicans. Cmon Joe. You can do better than that. They used to be collegial but not any more. They don't all hang out together. This whole BSS idea that they are all the same is just something you guys made up to fit into Bernie's stump speech about the "establishment". That's from a guy who has been pulling down six figures in Washington for a quarter century.

[adigal]

76. Irony - "First - use spell check. Secong - Your desperation is showing." nt

[NCTraveler]

49. You have no idea what the left is if you think he is outflanking her to her left.

He is a fucking xenophobe isolationist by day, and a sweat shop lover by night. If you understood that you would know his comments fall right in line with Paul and the rest of the absolute craziest of people in this country.

[adigal]

77. So why don't you come up where I live and tell those who lost their jobs overseas

what Hillary is saying, exactly, about NAFTA and the TPP and how she is going to protect their jobs. Because Obama certainly hasn't done it for them.

[NCTraveler]

81. You are now flat out promoting Trumps verbiage.

Maybe you think a xenophobic isolationist is our best option. I know better.

[adigal]

90. I'm saying his rhetoric is effective...I teach rhetoric

And he's excellent at it. All of it.

[NCTraveler]

91. I disagree with your assessment.

"Yes, women who have an abortion should be punished." Trump

His verbiage isn't as stellar as you think. The guy has never been in government and his favorability numbers look like Clintons.

That is not from "excellent" or "effective" verbiage.

[Ino]

52. She can't hit back at all...

It's well-documented that she loves trade agreements and H1B visas.

I guess she could hit back by telling more whoppers. There will always be fools who believe her.

[Yavin4]

67. Yes, she can.

First, it's a myth that NAFTA is responsible for jobs moving overseas. Second, the Republican party is on record as supporting these trade deals. Trump is at odds with his party which hurts other Republican office seekers.

[Teamster Jeff]

82. Yep. Hillary/ Dems lose on all trade issues to Trump' BS

[Skwmom]

68. I know a young voter, going to college for IT and will NOT vote for Clinton in the GE because of her

love of H-1B visas.

It is not just trade deals.

[whatthehey]

69. Again what DU thinks is "left" is skewed

Democrats support free trade far more than they oppose it, and Clinton/Sanders makes little difference. It's the Trumpenright and DU fringes who hate it.

[Rex]

72. Trump supports free trade and Dems support fair trade.

People here get liberal and libertarian mixed up, because they overlap in a few key areas.

[whatthehey]

73. Well the survey just asked about free trade agreements

Trump supporters think they are bad for America by large margins, Clinton and Sanmders supporters think they are good by large margins. It's that simple, regardless of what people here insist "real" Democrats must necessarily think. I can't read minds but I suspect Trump himself is fine with them when not campaigning, but that's just a guess. In any event he's clearly not attacking from the left but to attract and bolster the prejudices of his base.

[pampango]

93. Nice graphic showing Democratic support for trade agreements and republican opposition.

Our base and their base have such opposite views on this. Makes one wonder if Trump and his base are 'to the left' of a majority of the supporters of both Bernie and Hillary.

[whatthehey]

95. Only if you think Repoublicans in general are more to the left of Dems

It's clear which way the support is. Basic sense and Occam's razor would suggest that support for free trade is more left than right, rather than positing that the most right wing support base (Trump's followers) have staked out one issue on which they are overwhelmingly more "left" than the most left wing support base (Sanders' followers). It's just simpler to acknowledge that the very furthest kneejerk left where anything which is good for businesspeople must by definition be evil have adopted a generally right wing position. The only difference is in motivation, with Trumpians hating anything which even tangentially embraces damn brown furriners except as targets and the Comrades hating anything which might help people in mahogany row even if it also helps the truly global poor.

That free trade has mainstream left and center support makes sense. It is a pragmatic utilitarian win where both partners in any given trade can leverage comparative advantage. It allows growth in the global store of real wealth and creates employment opportunities for those who lack even America's social safety net. It eases barriers to open commerce. The more narrowly focused pressure groups who look only at jobs in factory X or members in union Y will grumble of course, but a wider viewpoint prevails in this political segment by its very nature. That's why support is broad but not universal.

That it has right wing opposition also makes sense. A coalition where the mass of support reacts best to jingoistic uber-patriotism sees the rest of the world as a continuum that starts at vassalage and ends at prey, with no space for partnership. The minority support there comes from the Chamber types who understand the commercial gains but are Republicans because they hate taxes and regulations more than anything, hence opposition which is broad but not universal.

[Rex]

71. People need to remember, he is not attacking from the left. Trump is a libertarian.

Trump is a neoliberal, he is just using the jobs issue to get more vote and doesn't give one shit about the working class. There is documented proof that he doesn't.

[adigal]

78. My point is that my unemployed and underemployed neighbors don't care what you call it

They see Hillary as in support of NAFTA and the TPP and sending more jobs overseas.

[Rex]

92. I understand that, however how exactly do they see Trump fixing everything?

Had this conversation with my aunt, it went nowhere because she could not explain why Trump is going to make everything great again.

[Attorney in Texas]

86. It's not hard - she's left a lot of room on her left flank.

[ecstatic]

88. And tomorrow, he'll attack from the right.

He's an empty suit and those that believe him probably deserve him.

[Blue_Tires]

89. It's not like Trump has any jobs plan of his own if asked, so I'm not worried.