2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf Weaver is right, Sanders might not speak at the convention
Last night, the detestable Jeff Weaver was on Hardball. He said something truly frightening:
WEAVER: Of course, Senator Sanders should have a prominent speaking role at the convention that would be ludicrous .
MATTHEWS: Even though hes still a candidate going into Wednesday?
WEAVER: Especially because hes a candidate going into Wednesday. Hes a candidate for President of the Unites States.
According to Weaver's words, Bernie Sanders expects to be given a primetime speaking slot on Monday or Tuesday night of the convention to use as a final bludgeon to try to wrest the nomination away from Hillary Clinton.
I'm sorry, but there is no way that the DNC would, or should, ever let Bernie on that stage unless and until he has conceded that the race is over. The convention is not a place for a campaign speech. If Bernie is intent on trying to flip delegates on the floor on Wednesday, he cannot be given a speaking slot before that.
This is another example of Sanders' ego inflating to the point where it will burst. There is not much that could make the convention more of a disaster than watching Bernie on all the networks still screaming about being the better candidate 48 hours before Hillary gives her acceptance speech.
It simply can't happen.
BootinUp
(47,209 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Weaver and the lot are purposely trying to get Bernie booted from the prime time slots to incite Bernie's followers who come to the convention.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)I don't think Weaver understands how that all works.
Come to think of it, his not understanding the process explains a lot.
emulatorloo
(44,261 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and the DNC.
Weaver gets cable news.
emulatorloo
(44,261 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)"I need to be president!!!" ME !
She and her husband both love power and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)You too.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Haven't heard a peep from him in the last few weeks.
still_one
(92,492 posts)brush
(53,968 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And pathetic.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)You are attacking him personally.
The word is 'scapegoating'.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)attention to what is being discussed.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)"Weaver! Weaver! Weaver!"
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
frylock
(34,825 posts)How much is he pulling? His client started out on third base, and now she's caught in a pickle between first and second. What the fuck is he doing to earn his check?
jillan
(39,451 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)crap, anything, together to try to will into existence a freakish copy of their Brock into our campaign.
A build-a-Brock workshop, if you will.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)A jerry-rigged scapegoat
FSogol
(45,580 posts)He's lucky he doesn't get flop sweat like Reince Prebuis and Marco Rubio.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)or Elizabeth Warren unless he concedes
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That's about the only civil thing left to say.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Millions of Democrats voted for him in the primaries, millions support him.
How would that work with all the current cries for "unity"?
emulatorloo
(44,261 posts)It will be for the reasons you list.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Letting him continue running a campaign on national tv right before she accepts the nomination would be ridiculous.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Or, will he just be given a script to read?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Both of whom were "not as bad" candidates. And, they lost.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I've heard of Pres Carter spoken here with such disdain. Is there anybody in the party - past or present - that you respect? Or is anybody not genuflecting to Bernie enough just crap?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I certainly admire and respect Bernie Sanders. In fact there's a long list of Democrats I respect. These two in particular:
Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams(D)
"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson(D)
"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson(D)
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)"more of the same". So Bernie and Democrats from 200 years ago. Well, I guess that answers my question nicely.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)You asked, I answered.
I also respect FDR, Henry Wallace, Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, Bill Bradley, Edward Kennedy, Dennis Kucinich, and a host of other "modern" Democrats. The amount of respect varies with the candidates. I was unable to vote for FDR and Henry Wallace, but all the rest I did vote for and respect.
Some, however, exceeded my nose-holding abilities.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)not be representative of the U.S., ya think?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Yes. They're known as the epitome of polite society.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)challenge. Hence, the bad choice of him as President. That he could not even respectfully walk into our party convention without tantrums and fireworks surely makes him unfit to be in control dealing with world issues and leaders.
frylock
(34,825 posts)*yawn*
mythology
(9,527 posts)He joined the party when it suited his needs after years of bashing the party. Has he ever said that he regrets calling the party ideologically bankrupt or that he would be a hypocrite to run as a Democrat?
He officially joined the party to benefit his ambition to be president. He avoided the day to day work of being in the party over the long term.
If the nomination vote is being "contested" (no matter how futilely) neither should speak before that vote.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)You should take that stupid meme and ...
brush
(53,968 posts)And bye, he's filed papers as an independent for re-election to the senate in 2018'
Talk about covering all the bases. Is he really a Democrat, or just playing one on the campaign trail?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Isn't Hillary running as a Democrat to "benefit" her ambition to be president?
lostnfound
(16,195 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)then he should not be part of the convention.
It is Clinton's celebration, not Sanders tantrum time.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)IMO.
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)speak about challenging the status quo.
I know HRC supporters are sensitive about this, but lots of convention speakers take an aspiration tone about achieving our highest ideals
But even if the only topic from Bernie was about how he is a better candidate to be the party's nominee, we would be be achieving something great by allowing that to happen. The votes will happen and HRC will most likely be the nominee. Bernie will endorse HRC just as he endorsed Obama twice.
Have confidence in the party. One speech couldn't possibly destroyor undermine all that the Clintons have built.
Its always a mistake to suppress discussion if you are a capable and confident leader.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Bernie giving a speech at the convention about how he's the better candidate is "something great", and at the same time it's an endorsement of Hillary? How in the world does that work?
If Bernie gives a speech about how he should be the nominee, it undercuts Hillary. No, it won't be lasting damage that can't be undone, but there's no reason to let it happen.
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)got it?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Let me see if I understand this:
Bernie gives a speech Tuesday night telling everyone that he's better than Hillary, and they're dopes for picking her.
Wednesday night, the votes are cast and Hillary is officially nominated.
Thursday night, now that he's a loser, Bernie endorses Hillary, just 48 hours after saying she shouldn't be the nominee.
How is that helpful to anyone?
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)Bernie is going to get up there and rip the party or HRC. Even for the last few months his criticisms have been tame.
I suspect you want the convention to be a HRC lovefest instead of an actual convention of ideas and discussion and ultimately a vote followed by the nominees address to the convention and nation.
Again, trying to suppress discussion is a bad way to go.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Everyone except for Bernie knows the race is over, and that Hillary is going to be nominated. Fighting it out on primetime tv can only hurt.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Please, explain how saying it one more time at the convention would be anymore hurtful.
Thanks in advance for your answer.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)Jesus, the argumentation on display here!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)her defeat Trump.
anyone who doesn't share that goal probably doesn't have a constructive role to play at the convention.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)neither is Bernie Sanders.
Robbie Mook and the Clinton campaign are.
Weaver was his usual delusional self, which isn't cause for alarm.
frylock
(34,825 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)It's obvious that Weaver has no idea how a convention is organized or what its purpose is.
I can only hope that Devine is more experienced, and that he will be a more reasonable voice in the Berning One's inner sanctum.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)of course, maybe DNC has done that already.
frylock
(34,825 posts)chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)so either Bernie admits he lost, or he gets to give a 1992 Jerry Brown style mini-speech.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)This is what conventions are for and how they work. You seem to be suggesting that delegates pledged to Sanders shouldn't vote for him, since they're only supposed to be there for the winner. This is an amazing argument.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)That is how conventions actually do work. They're a coronation, an inauguration.
Trump will be running the Republican convention to maximize his own benefit, and Clinton will be running to maximize her own benefit.
His delegates get to vote for him, but he doesn't get to set the speaking schedule. The winner does.
Winning the primary vote means running the convention, as well as being the nominee.
Obama's people ran the 2008 convention, and Hillary will be running the 2016 convention.
if Bernie wanted a speaking slot to promote his own candidacy, he should have won the voting.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)What was 1968? 1980?
"For me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end. For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." - Ted Kennedy.
Did you tell Ted Kennedy to fuck off like you're telling Sanders to, geek tragedy?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)disasters.
The winner of the primary voting runs the convention. That's how things have worked for the past quarter century.
Bernie can always self-nominate like Jerry Brown did.
hack89
(39,171 posts)the convention will formalize that choice but they will not over turn it. The SDs will not steal the nomination for Bernie.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sanders is able to speak as a member of the team determined to defeat as many Republicans and Libertatians and elect as many Democrats to office as possible. It may take a little more negotiating, but hopefully it will happen.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I wouldn't even let him in the door.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MattP
(3,304 posts)Bernie gave his word
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)His true character is turning off many of his supporters....no class....no grace
He lost...grow up
Tarc
(10,478 posts)Edit - And happy 7,000th post to me!
StevieM
(10,500 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)And of course it makes a lot of sense to piss off Bernie supporters more.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Obama will speak in prime time (10 PM) on Monday night.
Sanders will speak on Tuesday night.
The VP nominee will speak on Wednesday night.
Hillary will speak on Thursday night.
Bill Clinton, Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren will give the warm-up speeches. Meaning they will speak at 9:30 right before the prime time speakers. I am not sure who the fourth warm-up speaker will be. Maybe Kirsten Gillibrand.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Gee. What do you call someone who takes millions and millions from Wall Street and makes war on Muslims all day?
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)Convention. Why is this different?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)The problem isn't with Bernie speaking. It's with what Weaver said, which is that he wants to use that as a campaign speech to convince the superdelegates to overturn the election right before they nominate Hillary like everyone knows they will.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Only be allowed to sweep up the convention center after all the winners have left. If he needs it televised so be it.
frylock
(34,825 posts)brooklynite
(94,919 posts)I think you'll agree that his Administration was one for the history books...
frylock
(34,825 posts)The fucking NERVE!
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But I get that you guys don't understand that. You've never understood what he was about. Or why we back him.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)(I think that will be done one-on-one). I think it will be a speech to change the direction of the party, while he's still in a position to be on that stage, representing us...those of us who want to see a change in the direction of the party.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I think he was saying that while Bernie is still in the race, he has a right to be up on the stage, giving a speech.
Actually, even if he conceded, I think, due to his popularity and support, he has a right to be up on that stage giving a speech, but I doubt the establishment party will see it that way.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I get that. That's what all of the arguments about bernie math and everything here lately have been about. You fear the power he has by having over 10 million votes. You fear that maybe half the democratic party (maybe more, maybe less) might not want the same thing you do.
Well, we are afraid too. We are afraid there will be no movement left of the party once the nominee is chosen. We are far more afraid than you are, and for very good reason.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)You would not want to hear how I feel about Hillary. I'm not even going there, because I thought we were discussing real issues...not personalities. I should have known better.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)he just did not get it even though asked several times
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)The convention is to close to November to allow the spectacle of Bernie attacking our nominee at our convention. He needs to concede and endorse...if not then take the vote on Weds...and out he goes...he only needs to be there for the vote...and out he goes. He is not helping to unify anyway and just makes trouble.
trudyco
(1,258 posts)So anything goes. It could very well be that during the convention Bernie will still be fighting for the people who support him. There's a heck of a lot of us, more than Hillary fans if you count independents, but I know DUers backing Hillary choose to ignore that.
It may be that Hillary will be Indicted or Implicated in a criminal scandal. There are hints of that for both the emails and the Clinton Foundation and in several areas. People may want to rethink things even if she has the Delegates at the time of the convention.
Iit's possible that the convention will be about Bernie versus another candidate put in by the DNC to replace Hillary, who takes a plea deal to drop out of the race in exchange for not getting a criminal charge. That's unprecedented as far as I know. Certainly worth hearing both sides before making a decision.
I don't know why it would be wrong if Bernie decides to make one last pitch for why his progressive stance is what is best for representing the party and best for the world. You'd think that's what a National Convention should be. Lots of possibilities this year. One that shouldn't be is making people or candidates lock step behind a nominee just because the DNC says so... sounds so ... Republican. Democrats are much more open minded. Sometimes that makes things messy but oh well. We like open mindedness.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)and would ruin the convention...we probably would not even get a bounce or generate any good feelings...he either gets out or no convention for him...vote and escort him out if he has not endorsed...we salvage the convention while the sore losers riot no doubt...time to stop coddling a guy who is now helping Trump. The election is what is important...Bernie can either climb aboard the Democratic train and beat the crap out of Trump or get out of the way...makes little difference to me what he does.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)Sanders will concede.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Got it?
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)It's like you don't even really know what a convention is.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Weaver is almost always wrong.