2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe General Election Won't Start Until the Democratic Party decides who to run for President.
The GE doesn't begin until the Democratic Party decides who it wants to run for President and Vice-President.
That's up in the air since neither Hillary nor Bernie can win the 2,383 pledged delegates they need to secure the nomination before the convention.
It will be a contested convention.
Any nonsense about a "presumed" Democratic nominee in the mass corporate media is pure bull shit and need not be repeated here.
Pledged delegate counts are facts and the facts prove Hillary Clinton will not become the nominee before the convention.
She might be elected the nominee at the convention and so might Bernie, but not before it!
CASE CLOSED.
hack89
(39,171 posts)And every other Dem presidential nomination race since 1984. Give us some historical context.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)But, it is interesting to note that over 200 superdelegates pledged to Hillary Clinton abandoned her and voted for Obama at the convention.
Is that the interesting fact you wanted to point out?
hack89
(39,171 posts)The SDs switched to the nominee with the most pledged delegates like every preceeding primary. The SDs have never given the nomination to the runner up - correct?
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Did you forget about that little factoid?
LOL
hack89
(39,171 posts)since super delegates were created, has there ever been a primary where the party waited until the convention to crown a presumptive nominee? Isn't what will happen in two weeks exactly what happened every other time?
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)What contested convention are you comparing it to?
In 2008 Obama secured 2,118 pledged delegates needed to clinch the nomination after primaries in South Dakota and Montana.
Hillary can't and won't secure enough pledged delegates to win the nomination.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)to secure the nomination.
Hillary's lead over Bernie is wider than Obama's lead over Hillary was.
hack89
(39,171 posts)his pledged delegate lead over Hillary was a third of Hillary's lead over Bernie.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)although Hillary may.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)It took her years to pay it off.
And it is pretty common for a winning candidate to help their former opponents to retire their campaign debts.
The claim that Hillary needed to be offered assistance in order to procure her withdrawal is unfounded and inaccurate. And it is horribly unfair to a woman who did more to help her former opponent than any other primary challenger in American history.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)other primary challenger in American history.
Maybe she did. Maybe she didn't.
Do you think she will do as much to help Bernie in the General Election?
StevieM
(10,500 posts)races and how hard I know Hillary campaigned for Obama.
I don't think she will have the opportunity to help Bernie in the GE since the best evidence is that she will be the PD winner and therefore the nominee.
But if Bernie had defeated her, then yes, I think she would have done everything possible to help him win the presidency.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)and gave all their delegates to Obama.
Bleacher Creature
(11,256 posts)Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it less accurate.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Because their claims are not based on facts.
Hillary has not been selected as the Democratic presidential candidate.
That's because she doesn't have enough pledged delegate support to clinch the nomination and may not even obtain enough additional superdelegates votes at the convention to put her over the top.
We won't know until the convention is held and all of the delegates cast their votes.
That's just a fact of life which I'm certain Skinner understands and agrees with. But, you can ask him and see if he responds.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)He has stated outright GE season begins on DU on 16 June. You can privately believe whatever you wish. But on DU, the presumptive nominee will be Hillary and all the GE seasons rules that go along with that idea go into effect.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Kind of like Chernobyl under glass.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)DU will be in general election mode because the nominee will be clear. You maintaining that he's wrong will no more change his mind than my assessment that the outcome of the race has been clear since the middle of March.
But given that your original post (and all the similar ones you've posted previously indicates that you seem to have an issue with Skinner's announcement. Perhaps you should direct your request/admonition to him directly as this is really just complain about DU's rules as far as I can tell.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)God it must piss you people off every day to see Hillary going after Trump and ignoring Sanders. HOW DARE SHE?!?!?!
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Hillary campaigning against Bernie?
Naw!
Not in your life. It's all about Trump!
Really!
Sure!
Course it is.
LOL
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)because Sanders has been attacking her and the party for several weeks now unanswered and of course its taking its toll.
Hillary will win with or without CA. Why it is so important to Sanders is a mystery to me. He cannot win without CA and he cannot win with CA.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Period.
She can only win the nomination if several hundred superdelegates decide at the convention to vote for her.
They may not.
It's hardly a sure thing.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)You pin your hopes on a scenario that will never happen. Loyal Democrats will never overturn the will of the people just because Sanders is convinced he is a better candidate against Trump.
And you know it.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)and it won't be Sanders
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)So there's that.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)that Hillary has little or no chance to beat Trump.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)After June 14, the voters will have spoken. The only decision to be made will be by the Superdelegates. If you're suggesting that they'll be influenced by the fact that the media, and pundits, and political leaders and VOTERS all consider Clinton to be the nominee, it sounds like you don't have a lot of respect for them.
In the meantime, here's a idea: Maybe Bernie Sanders could campaign against Donald Trump. Maybe make a serious policy speech. Show what kind of candidate he'll be.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Hillary's surrogates attack Bernie all the time. Wish they would say more about Trump.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Team Bernie is out of its league here.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)And any comparisons to years past should include the name of the person who was under active FBI investigation at the time of becoming "presumptive nominee".
This nonsense is just one more illegitimate advantage grabbed by that side, among a long list of the same during this Primary.
If it continues on through to nominating her, the whole mess will be invalid from start to finish.
qdouble
(891 posts)After the people have voted and it's clear that Hillary is the presumptive nominee, they want to scream down the establishment and try to steal the nomination from Hillary by convincing super-delegates (the same people that they supposedly hate). Not only do they want to continue this anti-democratic behavior, but they want to bitch and moan that they can't use this site as a platform to turn the party against itself.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Scream and holler all you want but that doesn't change the delegate math.
It will be a contested convention.
Period.
qdouble
(891 posts)Do you think that hundreds of them will be lying about voting for Hillary and magically switch to Bernie at the last minute?
Also, why do you support stealing the nomination from the candidate with the most votes and pledged delegates?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)on Democratic Underground.
CASE CLOSED.
Mark your calendar!
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Unfortunately she is currently required to fight both Primary and GE battle simultaneously. lucky for her, she can multitask
LonePirate
(13,419 posts)The shellshock and disbelief are going to be massive when Bernie concedes by June 17.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)If a Democratic primary candidate can win 59 percent of the Partys pledged (primary- and caucus-won) delegates or more, the primary is decided by pledged delegates; if a Democratic primary candidate fails to meet that threshold, they are considered by DNC electoral processes to be a weak front-runner and the nomination is finally decided, instead, by superdelegates who can express support for a candidate at any time, but cannot commit themselves to anyone (i.e., cast a binding vote for any candidate) until the Democratic National Convention in July; superdelegates are unlike pledged delegates in this regard because, while pledged delegates also do not vote until the Partys convention, they cannot change their votes from what their states voting results pledged them to be though it has been argued by some that in fact they can change their votes at the Convention, with this argument most recently having been advanced by Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2008.
All you have to do is be able to read with comprehension and it should be patently obvious that there will NOT be a Democratic nominee BEFORE the JULY convention. Any other assumption is base on NONSENSE.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)of pledged delegates and received enough commitments from super delegates to ensure a majority of all delegates to the Democratic Convention.
Hillary had to decide if she would try to wrest the nomination from the presumptive nominee by staying in through the convention. It took less than 24 hours for her to release word that she would be suspending her campaign. The formal announcement, and endorsement of Obama, took place three days later.
When Hillary is recognized at the presumptive nominee on June 7 (except by Fox News) it will be consistent with what happened in 2008 when Barack Obama was recognized as the presumptive nominee.
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)You're right, the case is closed, has been for months. Hillary Clinton will be the nominee for the Democratic Party.