2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis Article Nails It: Bernie is about to give Democrats their 'come to Jesus' moment
Last edited Thu Jun 2, 2016, 07:12 PM - Edit history (3)
Update for those of you who are confused: Come to Jesus Moment:
An epiphany in which one realizes the truth of a matter; a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something; coming clean and admitting failures; realizing the true weight or impact of a negative situation or fact; acknowledgment that one must get back to core values; moment of realization; an aha moment; moment of decision; moment of truth; critical moment; moment of reassessment of priorities; turning point; life-changing moment.
...It started with Democratic voters in 2008; so disheartened and angered by eight years of war, recklessness, and social-Darwinism-masked-as-economic-policy, they delivered Barack Obama the White House on the belief he'd usher in a new era of capital Progressivism.
Disenchanted with Obama and 30 years of trickle-down economics and corporate America's purchase of Washington, D.C., Occupy Wall Street spread in the heart of the corruption only to ultimately fizzle.
And then there was Bernie Sanders.
For all the punditry about the Vermont Senator's historic rise (or lack thereof), a simple truth has been missing. Quite the contrary from some radical, "pie in the sky" revolutionary, Sanders is actually an FDR Democrat.
And the Democratic Party and establishment, who beginning in the 1970's decided to begin a pivot away from the working class and New Deal era in favor or wealthier suburbanites and corporatists, has fought Sanders every step of the way.
Sure, party leaders and lawmakers have delivered good lip service. Hillary Clintonwhose big-money donors from Wall Street, corporate America, K Street, and other special interests have served as her political oxygen throughout her careerlauded Sanders for challenging the Party on unaccountable money.
But she, and the Democratic establishment backing her, don't mean a damn word of it. No objective person can suggest Democrats haven't looked the other way as inequality exploded.
From the Clintons to Chuck Schumer to Harry Reid and other corporate Democratswho love uttering the words middle class before heading to fundraisers with the same folks who've decimated itthe bottom line is clear.
When party leaders, even President Obama, talk about "pragmatism" and "incremental change," they're using code words; ones that rationalize the revolving door between corporate America, Wall Street, K Street, and Washington, D.C.the one they've been complicit in swinging wide open.
But that sales pitch has been rejected by the voters the party needs to survive into the futuremillennials, young African Americans and Latinos, and the working class. And from the hundreds I've met and interviewed on the campaign trail, they are for Sanders and don't give a damn about Democratic Party unity.
After all, what has it done for them? Most are mired in a dark cloud of student loan debt, low-income jobs (if they can even get that), and living paycheck-to-paycheck. They know the same pragmatism the establishment props up has helped fuel the funneling of wealth to the top 1 percent over the last three decades.
Which leaves California as the climax of the decades-long evolution from the Party of the People to the Party of the Corporations. With a potential win, which recent polling indicates is possible, Bernie Sanders would've won the majority of the remaining statesincluding the biggest one in the country.
......Huddled in Philadelphia, the Democratic establishment will finally have its come-to-Jesus moment: stay married to corporate money or return to its first lovethe American middle class.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/02/bernie-sanders-is-about-to-give-democrats-their-come-to-jesus-moment-commentary.html
MisterP
(23,730 posts)distorted politics from what it used to be before Reagan, and it ain't the Reagans
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)surprised this ran on CNBC, too---TYT's Jordan Chariton
Duval
(4,280 posts)And it's applicable!
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)bend reality to a made-up fantasy promoted by white millennial Sanders zealots. The facts are 180 degrees away from this statement in the OP:
"that sales pitch has been rejected by the voters the party needs to survive into the futuremillennials, young African Americans and Latinos"
See, for example,
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/exit.polls
"Exit polls: Obama wins big among young, minority voters"
"The only age group where McCain prevailed was 65 and over, and that by just a 10-percentage-point margin, 54 percent to 44 percent, the exit polls showed.
And minorities went heavily into the Obama camp. Blacks, 96 percent Obama to 3 percent McCain; Latinos, 67 percent Obama to 30 percent McCain; and Asians, 63 percent Obama to 34 percent McCain."
cui bono
(19,926 posts)then.
.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)candidate" NOW, either; just an anti-Establishment sore loser.
And the stats I cited show that the Democratic Party still is doing fine with young people and with minorities. What are they going to do, vote for Trump?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)I won't bother you again.
.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience".
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)dchill
(38,462 posts)Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).
2banon
(7,321 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Sort of like "Patriot Act" or the "Clean Skies Initiative."
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)is correct about his post? Those groups have not rejected the Democrats. They went heavily for Democratic candidates in 2008 and 2012 and in the 2016 primary.
The kind of honesty and clear sight you guys claim require agreement with at least that, if not other points in the OP.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Now that was funny.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)That's the entitlement driving liberals and progressives away from the Party in droves.
sandyshoes17
(657 posts)I voted and campaigned for Bill. But I've learned a lot since then. Wasn't that their philosophy, they have to take us, what are they going to do, vote for the scary rebuplican. Same story different year. I'm tired of this game. The country is tired of this game. You have a choice get screwed slowly or hard, your choice either way your getting screwed. Now get out there and vote!
Beowulf
(761 posts)Hence the attempted shaming of Sanders' supporters to vote for Hillary. This is unprecedented push back by the left/progressive wing of the party and apparently has infuriated the Clinton wing.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)dchill
(38,462 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)just be sure you want to be with the partner of your own choice.
Me, I'll choose to be from the old man with the flaming white hair wearing his dark rimmed glasses.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Under any circumstances.
No matter how much condescending sarcasm is dripped in their direction.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Writing Bernie Sanders on my card.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Numbers never move.
Human beings vote are always the same. (Guaranteed.)
There will be no point in time in which the Republicans will win a pickup of the presidency.
It cannot happen.
There will also be no point in time in which the Democrats win back majority control of the U.S. House and U.S. Senate (same or separate election cycle).
It is just not possible.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)They're not going to vote for Trump. However, they're not going to vote against him either.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... is a loser.
Guess MLK was a loser, then.
Number23
(24,544 posts)from those who will reject anything that declares their anointed one the failure that he is.
But that sales pitch has been rejected by the voters the party needs to survive into the futuremillennials, young African Americans and Latinos, and the working class. And from the hundreds I've met and interviewed on the campaign trail, they are for Sanders and don't give a damn about Democratic Party unity.
Considering that Sanders has lost black voters of every age, income and education level, I'm not even sure why I'd be interested in anything else this person is saying.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Nor is worship of "anti-establishment" a rational position. An "anti-establishment" candidate isn't necessarily interested in replacing the establishment with something better after all.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Ever heard the old saying, the bloom is off the rose...
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)and admit into this conversation the sitution before Super Tuesay, when Bernie's campaign against Hillary still arguably was viable.
Do you have any evidence from exit polls that Bernie led among young African-Americans and Latinos?
He did seem to be succeeding among white millenials, likely because of his hare-brained, cynically opportunistic, massively wasteful proposal to make college tuition "free" for them, most of whose families can afford to pay at least a large part of the cost.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)working class individuals who are NOT for uniting behind Clinton and what she represents.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)???
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)They show that the youth vote for Bernie includes higher rates of blacks and Hispanics than it does whites.
I have not personally seen those polls and I don't have a link, but it's been mentioned before.
Try google?
You see the young white enraged male is not a real thing in the Bernie camp. While his camp does include a lot of young white enraged males, it's a much more diverse group than you imagine it to be.
It wasn't so much at the beginning of the campaign, because he was not a known entity. He is now and he's very popular with people under 30 of all ethnic groups.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)find something I don't believe for one second?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I google things all the time to prove and disprove things I doubt. I'm not afraid to find out the truth. And I'm open to changing my mind when confronted with it.
YMMV
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)you post something doubtful--TWICE!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Sorry, it's not my job to educate you. I was only confirming what the OP said about the ethnicity of Sander's supporters.
I don't really care if you are educated on this issue or not. You wouldn't change your mind if you were.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)ebayfool
(3,411 posts)snip/
Another factor helping Mr. Sanders is that nonwhite voters here tend to be younger than elsewhere in the country, and more receptive to Mr. Sanders. While Mrs. Clinton had strong support among minority voters in previous primary states, the Public Policy poll showed the two candidates splitting the nonwhite vote.
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_29940896/california-poll-clinton-and-sanders-virtual-dead-heat?version=meter+at+3&module=meter-Links&pgtype=article&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
snip/
The poll, conducted May 13 to 22, showed Clinton leading among whites 47 percent to 41 percent and Latinos 52 percent to 43 percent. But Sanders is leading overall among nonwhites 47 percent to 46 percent. Baldassare chalks that up to the fact that minority voters in California tend to be younger.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I may not have actually seen a poll, it may have come from an interview with someone on Sander's campaign, like maybe Thom interview with Nina Turner. I really don't remember where I saw it.
And I agree, it's probably more the western states this is happening in, because as the primaries headed west, it was later in the season and Bernie was finally getting some media attention, so the youth were catching on.
As a matter of fact, there was a story about how the media has pushed the idea that Sander's supporters are white and only in predominantly white states can he win...and that is why after Hawaii won, and they are low percentage of white, the media was still pushing that.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Also, his tuition program is not "free," it is paid for with a small Wall Street transaction tax. It's a very rational program, and is considered normal in the rest of the developed world.
Your attempt at implying Bernie is some radical crazy loon is as transparent as it is "hair-brained."
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)msongs
(67,381 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I mean a bird landed on his podium and all.
Voters weren't impressed.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Unintelligent and snarky...full of hubris. Not befitting a serious issue such as the political experience of voters...of any stripe.
Philosophy is full of the warnings of the over-confident. This board is a mini-experiment in sociological philosophy. One-liner snark.
Again, the higher they rise, the lower they fall.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... but my vague memory recalls:
"Hubris comes before the fall."
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Oh yeah, that was how Hillarians described Obama.
SalviaBlue
(2,914 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)An epiphany in which one realizes the truth of a matter; a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something; coming clean and admitting failures; realizing the true weight or impact of a negative situation or fact; acknowledgment that one must get back to core values; moment of realization; an aha moment; moment of decision; moment of truth; critical moment; moment of reassessment of priorities; turning point; life-changing moment.
jillan
(39,451 posts)you just recycling?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)like his message or you don't. He isn't asking to be a messiah and the Left doesn't put personalities before ideology like the Corporate Democrats do. Clinton supporters agree with Clinton no matter what her position is on anything. Most don't even know where she stands today on say fracking, medical marijuana, the TPP, etc.
When you talk about a revered authoritarian leader, you are projecting.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)All ten positions for each issue, that is. With that strategy, she's right on everything!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)they might not agree with whatever her current position is. They essentially say, "I agree with Clinton no matter where she currently stands."
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)findrskeep
(713 posts)Bernie is the only one who talks about all the things he taught. The golden rule, taking care of those less than us, not idolizing money etc. Now that's a big one. You know, all that stuff it seems like a lot of us have forgotten.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)fails on the golden rule. He wants special. Special treatment, rules, laws. No criticism, coddle. No attacks or calling out.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Clinton, on the other hand, wants special rules for her Wall Street buddies. I mean she even said that we were too harsh on them. That everyone shares the blame for their shenanigans (she didn't even call their behavior what it actually is: crimes). Of course she called them out on it, something short of a sternly written letter. I guess the bar was raised (lowered, depending on perspective). I'm sure she'll "look into it" once she gets her email server back.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Matt_R
(456 posts)on the ridiculous things you might say or do... are you sure... are you sure your sure... double dog swear your sure... because you say you don't want others to be coddled... do you want others to coddle you?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Please read the description before snarking.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)Great article... let's get back to the party of the working class..
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)BTW, I'd love and welcome it - but I'm not holding my breath. The Money...
The Dark side is strong with the corporate whores.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)brooklynite
(94,452 posts)SuperPACS and high dollar contributions WILL be spent in this election. It will be spent on the Republicans. If someone wants to spend it on the Democrats, I'll take it.
The Sanders Revolution (TM) has raised an impressive $250 M in a year. There's no sign that they can raise FIVE TIMES that amount in the three months between the Convention and the election.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)brooklynite
(94,452 posts)...he'll be laughed off the phone.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)message, "help the least of these". That is what Bernie has said was his whole purpose for getting into politics -- to help the least of these.
No one else gives a damn, all talk and misleading bull sh*t. . but Bernie just keeps his light shining and moving forward.
For anyone with any kind of awakened spirituality, it is a joy to watch.
findrskeep
(713 posts)And you're spot on. Thanks for being awake
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)to hundreds of thousands of enthusiastic cheering supporters and many millions of dollars in small donations, has reminded me repeatedly of the parable of the mustard seed (Mat 13:3132, Mark 4:3032, and Luke 13:1819) -- a tiny thing, a lowly plant, that grows and grows and grows until it towers over everything and birds of the sky come to live in its branches.
It has been like that. Amazing to watch.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)Thanks for the thread, Skwmom.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Not sure how to pluralize Jesus, but you get the idea. One is the Jesus of the scriptures, the one who tells his followers to love others, be nice, etc. The other is the Jesus you find in the megachurch, the one who wants you to smite sinners, raise lots of money for missionary scams, etc. Yes, the decision is coming, but I have no idea which way it will go.
findrskeep
(713 posts)and the other one isn't.
elleng
(130,820 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)What are your plans about anything...concrete...demands without any method to make it happens ...sound like the green traitors to me.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)I think Obama did a good job moving the needle to the left as far as was possible. Early on I thought he was too willing to work with the GOP but as it went on I thought he did well.
Now I expect either Sanders or Hillary to move the arrow a little farther.....
I even think Bill Clinton did a great job given the prevailing paradigm of the time. Some of the things he did set the stage for problems we had later but overall if Bush or Dole had won it would have been much worse.
Right now I think the country has woke up and realized it was screwed. Before that I don't think you could have convinced them.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And Hillary sure as hell won't.
They are deep centrists/corporatists.
What leftist would actively push for the TPP? Offer up cuts to SS?
.
K&R
Aerows
(39,961 posts)How the cow ate the cabbage.
ancianita
(36,009 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Nothing will change that fact Hillary is our nominee....June 16th coming quick
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Will it be? NO. Corporate money is now the heroin of the Democratic party. There's no rehab for that. The party leaders are going to do whatever the corporations want to keep their pusher happy.
Ms. Golden Sacks is the corporate sweetheart. She'll keep the bosses happy and keep the money rolling in.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)be in another party. We are not going to play the DLC game anymore. The party is already split. We have seen that we cannot gain anything here if the corporatists win. Most of us even feel a moral need to leave if that happens.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)In case you haven't noticed, btw, Bernie Sanders still isn't Jesus.
findrskeep
(713 posts)or savior. The point is to live your life along those guidelines. Bernie represents that. WE have to be the change WE want to see. Bernie is just helping us to remember that. To remember what is possible...we have the power to change. It's up to us.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)It could be the Come to Buddha movement...means enlightenment...the realization of other truths. And that's what most world religions espouse.
Kind of like "Good Lord" doesn't refer to any religious figure, no more than the opposite pejorative starting with God.
I'm starting to wonder what the average age that posts here.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Nirvana, Heaven, whatever you want to call it, they made it up for attention.
On second thought, maybe Sanders IS a religious icon.....
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)A 'come to Jesus' moment is a common idiom that draws on that literature, it's surprising so many of you are unaware of this. Perhaps it is because you think of literary figures as something more elevated?
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Find something a substantial to complain about.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)workers anymore, they have technology and people refuse to understand that. The rest of the world also has or is getting more technology. We either have a seat at the table or stand in the corner and get wasted.
We just can't tell voters what they WANT to hear. We need to tell them what they NEED to hear. I think Hillary does a better job of telling us what we need than either Trump or Sanders. Voters want to hear that industrial jobs are coming back as well as coal miner jobs...it ain't gonna happen! People want to hear that they can have free college tuition for ALL...it ain't gonna happen. People want to hear that single-payer health insurance will solve their health insurance problem...it ain't gonna happen unless they are willing to be taxed to the teeth. It's not so much that we can't create jobs...we just can't create ENOUGH high paying jobs to meet the ever increasing eligible workforce. We don't just have Mexican immigrant workers, we have Russian, Asian, Balkan and Baltic and Slavic immigrant workers.
Instead of addressing the need for training and building the education systems we need for the 21st century and preparing our public servants for the global issues they will be facing we continue to raise the issues people are angry about and respond with the solutions the want to hear. Hillary more than any other candidate out there understands this and tries to address it not with a vision to just destroy the systems we have or a vision to take us back to what we had. Her vision is about what we need.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
trudyco
(1,258 posts)Seems weird. But nice.
rock
(13,218 posts)Is a particularly poor choice for an analogy, in general, and specifically even more, is insulting to me, an atheist. It also has the opposite effect from where the writer wants to take me.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Did you know that when comics they 'I killed them' they don't mean they murdered the audience but that they made them laugh? It's an idiom. Acting as if you don't understand that makes you seem either vapid or intentionally coy.
rock
(13,218 posts)I think a lot of people would have been upset if you had used "nailed to the cross", which I would find offensive (even though I am an atheist).
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)Jesus speaks highly of you.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)but the world is too full of tired idioms to be offended by all of them.
For example, Why is "killing two birds with one stone" something good? We supposedly hate birds?! Is there a shortage of stones?
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)I also like the term Catharsis in this context...
rock
(13,218 posts)Literal meanings, no silly analogies, no underlying insults.
randome
(34,845 posts)I don't feel that from Sanders. I have to think that some are latching onto him because it's 'cute' to see an old guy waving his arms around or something? I really, honestly, don't get any special vibes from him.
And the fact that virtually none of his coworkers want to endorse him make me think I have him pegged right, as someone who really doesn't have much follow-through and doesn't think beyond the next stump speech.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)I don't particularly like her but I'll support her when she gets the nomination. But Sanders has been in the Senate for 25 years and hasn't been able to get his message out (how often have we heard that people just need to get to know him?) and his coworkers by and large have ignored him. So no chills and thrills from him, either.
He just never seemed like superstar material to me and I'm a little mystified why so many (not enough, obviously) think he's the next best thing to sliced bread.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)We are not looking for a superstar. We are looking for a person with integrity who will fight for the people. Considering how much politicians LIE people are flocking to Bernie because his long record backs up his words. It's not just words provided by a speechwriter.
randome
(34,845 posts)After 25 years, Sanders hasn't done anything to promote himself as that leader. That's why no one really knew who he was at first. A leader has to be seen, has to build coalitions, shake hands, be sociable with the people you want to lead. Sanders doesn't seem to have many friends in Congress.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)"Come to Jesus moment"
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)K & R x 100000000000000
Scuba
(53,475 posts)The Democratic Party knows this, the Republican Party knows this, the Ruling Class knows this- and they've been astonishingly successful at making sure the Working Class never learns this.
The status quo was rolling along just fine, until Bernie Sanders came along and mucked it up with his crazy ideas about democracy, equality and justice." ~ Anonymous
pinebox
(5,761 posts)I couldn't help myself.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)they will fight like HELL to stay married to corporate cash. The Democratic party has long since moved away from "it's all about us" to "I got mine, so get off your lazy ass and get yours too or quit your bitching".
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Great read. Thanks for posting!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)(as always)
aidbo
(2,328 posts)..quit nit-picking figures of speech?
TYT aficionados will know who I'm talking about. The Chief Justice of TYT Supreme Court Jesus Godoy.
Come to Rock & Roll Jesus
https://mobile.twitter.com/rocknroll_jesus
Paulie
(8,462 posts)It was brutally repressed by armed and armored government lackeys. As I recall.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)"Huddled in Philadelphia, the Democratic establishment will finally have its come-to-Jesus moment: stay married to corporate money or return to its first lovethe American middle class."
Hillary will be the nominee. Voters have spoken and more of them have voted for her than for Sanders. Funny how this so called "revolution" is so quick to run over democracy and try to force on the party the losing candidate.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,172 posts)After all, many people are just chomping at the bit to see post after post of suitably obsequious comments where never is heard a discouraging word and the hills are alive with the sound of Clinton!