Post removed

[brooklynite]

1. Hey! Maybe if we vote for Trump, things will get really bad...

...and people will be willing to vote for a progressive NEXT time.

What could go wrong?

[Surya Gayatri]

5. The Susan Sarandon School of Political Science.

[barrow-wight]

31. She drove off that cliff on Thelma and Louise and that was all she wrote.

[Baobab]

39. Ive had this argument several times with people.

I myself am not going to vote for Hillary. I refuse to vote for Trump though.

I don't think he is a better choice, not by a long shot. He is likely to be just as bad.

If Bernie isn't the nominee, i will likely write in Bernie or vote for Jill Stein.

[Carolina]

44. Exactly

That voting for the not so lesser of two evils will get us no where. Since Reagan and the Clintons' new Democrats we have been continually tacking starboard. I am sick of it, especially since this time, we had a real choice

The Clintons need to take their money and be gone. That all their questionably begotten wealth is not enough for them tells you all need to know. They need power, power and more power. And it sure ain't to help everyday Americans. Just look at the 2-for-1 Clinton legacy of NAFTA, the Telecommunications Act, the Crime and Welfare Deform bills, and the Gramm-Bliley-Leach act which overturned FDR's Glass-Steagall Banking Act. Then look at what HRC did in the Senate and as SoS: aye votes on IWR, the Bankruptcy bill and the Patriot Acts I & II; devastating regime change in Honduras, Libya, Syria; arms deals with the Saudis that benefitted the Clinton Slush Fund (aka Foundation); worldwide promotion of fracking, and the private server to avert scrutiny of all!

As Bill said of Bush-Quayle in 1992: It's time for them to go

2016 is long past time for Bill and Hill to go

I will write in Bernie or vote for Jill Stein, too

[840high]

78. .+1

[grasswire]

130. I'm not sure they ought to take the money.

Anything that resembles a bribe or money laundering of quid pro quo ought to be confiscated, and the Foundation broken up.

Once they are out of power, no one will want to pay them speaking fees or slush money.

I want to see them really dead broke, as she said they once were.

[JimDandy]

115. I simply don't believe anyone who says they know a Bernie supporter who will vote for Trump.

It would take extreme cognitive dissonance for anyone to do that, which means their brain must be fried.

[zalinda]

123. Sorry, but I had 2 complete strangers

tell me that if Hillary gets the nod, they will vote for Trump. I was surprised, to say the least. They saw my Bernie bumper sticker and decided to tell me that if Bernie doesn't win, they'll vote for Trump.

But then I live outside of New York City, and you do realize that Hillary won only one other country in the entire New York state besides NYC. They do not like her here. This solid blue state may turn purple.

Z

[JimDandy]

125. What my post was implying is that they were never real Bernie supporters in the first place.

[still_one]

132. exactly

[amborin]

7. chaos in the Middle East, such as we have thanks to HRC's regime change in Libya?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512106237#post40

[CanadaexPat]

30. Exactly. We know we'll have more wars with Hillary.

[PufPuf23]

119. I won't vote for Trump or other GOP or third party and may or may not vote for Hillary Clinton.

I have voted straight Democratic tickets in every election since 1972 (except for a vote in the GOP primary 1980 for John Anderson to slow Reagan).

I do think the following is a valid pattern of thought and this troubles me.

Trump is a loose cannon, egomaniac, and bigot and an incompetent as a political leader; he may turn out to be a fascist if allowed. He is cunning instinctively like a fox and a spellbinder. Trump is in it for vanity not attention nor wealth nor want of power. Trump is unlikely to champion any major legislation except taking things apart. The leaders of other nations see Trump as buffoon and think what is it with the USA?

The GOP establishment is not that fond of Trump and likely would nip Trump in the bud if Trump goes too far off the rails. The GOP majorities in Congress, courts, and generals likely would keep Trump in bounds.

If Trump crashes, the GOP would readily impeach and convict the man.

Trump is likely to only want or politically survive 1 term.

Hillary Clinton is extremely smart and clever sneaky. Clinton has a large political machine at beck and call. Clinton seems to have a pathological problem regards being consistent or speaking the truth and this makes her appear worse than she probably is in fact. Clinton has a history of bad decisions, at first proud of then minimizing her role when things go south. Clinton knows the system and how to work the system.

Hillary Clinton is not that charismatic with the public or that good a communicator. Clinton does best in championing individual identity groups when dealing with the general public. Evidently Clinton has some gravitas behind closed doors with other politicians, bankers, CEOs, etc. The leaders of other nations are wary of Clinton.

I see more chance of a major hot war breaking out under Clinton than Trump. Clinton has history with Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Honduras and strong rhetoric regards Iran and Russia. Folk don't mention Colombia / Latin America and Ukraine / Baltic and former USSR border republics where Clinton was also involved and was a major influence on the neo-conservative project.

Clinton because of her intelligence is more likely than Trump to either get us into hot war or, like Bill Clinton, champion neo-liberal legislation where the impacts are not at first evident.

We have observed that Hillary Clinton could figuratively eat babies on the 6 PM news and still have unquestioned support. This troubles me. Reminds of how far off the rails GWB took the USA and many folks still defend the rat.

So how does one compare 8 years of a highly intelligent and effective POTUS with the potential to make a scary mess where there will be very little will to keep Hillary Clinton in check or to actually remove compared to 4 years of a buffoon that the GOP is likely to do the dirty work of removal should conditions go very bad?

[msongs]

2. DU is for people who vote for democratic party candidates, not advocates who want trump nt

[JonLeibowitz]

4. I don't think Yves is posting here. Are you saying otherwise? What is her handle?

[amborin]

6. DU is for people who support democratic principles

[barrow-wight]

32. And trump supports those?

[Alex4Martinez]

67. Statistically, a vote for Hillary in the Primary is a vote for Trump in the GE.

Claims to the proposition that Sanders support means Trump wins run counter to the polls and available data.

[amborin]

86. Exactly

[Doctor_J]

19. It's also for people who support progressive politics, which are at odds with Hillary

[Baobab]

48. Yup

nt

>It's also for people who support progressive politics, which are at odds with Hillary

[amborin]

62. she's the antithesis of progressive politics

[angrychair]

20. Interesting

You read that and your take away is an article advocating to elect tRump?

Interesting.

[Ghost Dog]

73. Read?

Reading (& thinking, & acting accordingly) is for losers, apparently.

[angrychair]

74. I mean seriously

No self-examination or desire for more analysis as to why people would feel that way and how that could be changed.
As is always the case, just yet another member of the "vast right wing conspiracy. Everything is great."

[Ghost Dog]

77. ... Well, come on, where's the fast buck

in that?

[Carolina]

45. Bernie is more of a real D/democrat

than HRC ever was or will be. Unlike her, he's not a lying, pandering, war-loving, self-serving, corporate owned Turd way fraud. Meanwhile, she has gone from Goldwater girl to Goldman-Sachs water carrier.

The Clintons need to take their money and be gone. That all their questionably begotten wealth is not enough for them tells you all need to know. They need power, power and more power. And it sure ain't to help everyday Americans. Just look at the 2-for-1 Clinton legacy of NAFTA, the Telecommunications Act, the Crime and Welfare Deform bills, and the Gramm-Bliley-Leach act which overturned FDR's Glass-Steagall Banking Act. Then look at what HRC did in the Senate and as SoS: aye votes on IWR, the Bankruptcy bill and the Patriot Acts I & II; devastating regime change in Honduras, Libya, Syria; arms deals with the Saudis that benefitted the Clinton Slush Fund (aka Foundation), worldwide promotion of fracking, and the private server to avert scrutiny of all!

As Bill said of Bush-Quayle in 1992: It's time for them to go

In 2016: It's time for Bill and Hill to go

[Voice for Peace]

85. I thought it was for people who believe unshakeably in democracy and democratic values

and the "Underground" part is because those who stay informed and
active are VERY OFTEN not in the Democratic Party mainstream and
are the ones who will keep pushing for progress.

An underground based on "settling" for an undesirable candidate isn't
doing much. The underground in the Civil War wasn't about how to
compromise with the slaveowners.

the underground in WW2 wasn't about finding a practical way to work
with the Hitler administration.

I thought Democratic Underground would be a place for actual progress
so I'm a little disappointed to put it mildly, that Skinner is so ready
to back someone under FBI investigation. Not pragmatic at all.

Maybe "Democratic Towtheline" would be a better name for
the site?

[azmom]

101. My vote is for democratic establishment.com. Nt

[Voice for Peace]

107. you're right, never even thought of that one.

[azmom]

110. You do know that that Skinner, or David Allen, owner of DU

used to design websites for Blue Dogs/Third Way Democrats in Washington, D.C.

[Voice for Peace]

114. I didn't know that. I wonder why he picked the wrong name, then.

I must do some underground research and see if I can grasp his reasoning.

But I confess to having benefited a great deal here, and still recommend it
a lot to people who are confused by MSM spinning -- The debate and (even
when dumb bullshitty or blind) discussion, the presentation of various
sources, insight into who does what or works for whom. From this one site
alone I get more solid education on the current world than I am even able to
read, much less grasp -- but feel confident, that by the time I've downloaded it to my
brain, it's been challenged, corrected, affirmed, deemed useful. There are so many
good smart people here, each with a unique specialty they contribute, and it's
the whole that makes it work for me.

Maybe Skinner keeps the name in order to keep the site alive, to attract people
who might never vote for an establishment candate, or compromise their values
in exchange for a membership card. Without those people, it would be a boring
place I think, a circlejerk sort of forum. OK! Maybe I just answered my own question.

[azmom]

116. My understanding is, that this place came to be because

of the 2000 election. It has always been an anti-republican site.

I concur, this place is a great resource, but take it for what it's worth. The administration is establishment.

[Voice for Peace]

121. the establishment is trickly-down, makes many feel a little safer so they let its

rules and ways into their brains,
and so accept it as good, safe & sensible;
in time coming to believe it's one's own, one's
own true convictions;

on it trickles trickles a little bit here into the school system,
a little bit there into the whole foods,
a little bit here into the newpapers, a little bit into tv,
a little more, a little trickle, trickle trickle nearly everywhere
and so familar now it feels like home to some
accepting comfortably their assigned boxes
(sensible, for keeping things tidy).

many like to make their own comfy boxes,
so as to be a good contributing citizen, and allow the
trickle to carry on, and
(it especially loves to snack on fear,
and can generate it when it needs a snack)

It trickles here and there through every system in every
town trickles into us and through our brains,
an invisible river of dust leaves things just a bit more dull

Till it trickles up to an honest and fearless person
but has to find another way around, it can't go through.

The story is: there never was an honest fearless person,
that never really happened.
Not wanting to waste resources, we think about this as
little as possible, and conclude it's likely true. There never
was that person.
This is comforting to know, and more than a little boring!

[Skwmom]

3. "They can no longer abuse progressives". But they tell us this is like any other election cyle...

[Luminous Animal]

8. I'm going to rec this but I am really surprised that she knows Bernie supporters who will vote Trump

[Voice for Peace]

87. I'm not surprised a bit.

I too know people who like BErnie well enough to vote for him over Trump; but if it is Clinton, they will vote for Trump.

Their reasoning is as described in the article' and it's hard for me to disagree. Maybe one out of 10 actually likes Trump, a little, because of his fucky-you-devil-may-care, the absence of traditional boring and mealy-mouthed pandering -- but they ALL see the Clintons as infinitely more dangerous to the country. As do I.

so.. it's a thing, for real.

[Luminous Animal]

89. Well, I am a member of Bernie or Bust and their is very little strategical talk about voting for

Trump. Thankfully. Most are going Green or not voting at all. In fact, there is a movement to reregister as a Green the day after the convention if Clinton gets the nod.

Other people are joining A Brand New Congress and focusing their energy on 2018.

http://brandnewcongress.org/home

America needs an honest, accountable Congress to enact Bernie's program. But trying to win each Congressional seat one-by-one is impossible. So let's run one campaign to replace Congress all at once (except those already on board) that whips up the same enthusiasm, volunteerism and money as Bernie's presidential campaign.

We're building on the tools, tactics and networks that we developed together on Bernie's campaign. But to pull this off, the volunteer movement will have to wield more power and resources than on any campaign before. This means volunteers on the ground will run their own offices and voter contact operations, and will have access to all necessary tools and materials from the start. Get ready for the most beautiful campaign ever.

[Voice for Peace]

97. I still think Bernie is going to be President.

weird, I know.

I am a proud member of eternal hope and never give my love or support to a liar.

[Luminous Animal]

99. Good for you. I really don't think about it one way or another. A Brand New Congress

is going to exist whether or not he gets the nomination and I intend to keep working on electing a Congress that will challenge the status quo no matter who is in office.

…"and never give my love or support to a liar." Agreed.

[Voice for Peace]

108. yes, that's the boat I want to keep sailing on.. find the wind, and stay with the wind.

that's how it has been for me with Bernie. A marvelous wind. still blowing.

[Pastiche423]

127. I do too

I am normally pretty pessimistic, but I feel like Bernie is going to win.

It's not because I want it so bad, although I do. The feeling is just there.

[geek tragedy]

129. It's hard for you to disagree with voting for Trump over Clinton?

Bye.

[TwilightZone]

9. Ah, yes, burn it down to save it. One of the most useless, narcissistic concepts in modern politics

Any "progressive" who says that they're going to vote for Trump over Clinton because of some kind of patriotic duty is delusional. It's not patriotic; it's narcissistic. "But I'll feel so much better about myself! Yay me!"

"Hillary is a known evil. Trump is unknown. They'd rather bet on the unknown, since it will also send a big message to Team Dem that they can no longer abuse progressives."

Trump isn't unknown to anyone who has been paying attention. Ignorance isn't a becoming trait.

Bring on June 16th.

[Waiting For Everyman]

13. It's the "if my hut's getting burnt down so is yours"

philosophy. Lots of Progressives are done with being shafted by big money.

[cliffordu]

37. ^^^This^^^

[pacalo]

60. Exactly.

[azmom]

102. Done!

[Doctor_J]

49. More like the abused partner rationalizing, "I have to keep taking this shit because I have

nowhere else to go". Or, in your metaphor, "Burn it down because I'm screwed either way".

[floriduck]

54. The best alternative is to write-in Bernie if Hillary is the Dem candidate. As time passes there

may be more former Clinton supporters who see her in a different light and might migrate to Bernie's side.

[bvar22]

10. Why do we need change in the Democratic Party?

CHARTS: The Amazing Wealth Surge For The Top 0.1 Percent
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/the-amazing-wealth-surge-for-the-top-0-1-percent

Korean Free Trade Deal devastating for US Workers
(Prototype for the TPP)

What happened to the 70,000 jobs that the Korea Free Trade deal was supposed to create? They never materialized. Instead, U.S. workers lost 40,000 jobs in the first year of the agreement.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-cohen/koreaus-free-trade-agreem_b_4965492.html

Meet the TPP: Crony capitalism on a global scale
https://represent.us/action/tpp/

Obama selects former Monsanto lobbyist to be his TPP chief agriculture negotiator
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662210

"Obama Admin’s TPP Trade Officials Received Hefty Bonuses From Big Banks"
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/20/obama-admin%E2%80%99s-tpp-trade-officials-received-hefty-bonuses-from-big-banks/

Study: "Trade" Deal Would Mean a Pay Cut for 90% of U.S. Workers
http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2013/09/the-verdict-is-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-a-sweeping-free-trade-deal-under-negotiation-with-11-pacific-rim-coun.html

Retirement: A third have less than $1,000 put away
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/03/18/retirement-confidence-survey-savings/6432241/

95 percent of the economy’s gains have gone to the top 1 percent
http://billmoyers.com/2014/01/10/why-conservatives-old-divide-and-conquer-strategy-%E2%80%94-setting-working-class-against-the-poor-%E2%80%94-is-backfiring/

Billionaire wealth doubles since financial crisis
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/12/Billionaire-wealth-doubles-since-financial-crisis/5011384268135/?spt=hts&or=12

The Top .01 Percent Reach New Heights
http://www.demos.org/blog/9/13/13/top-01-percent-reach-new-heights

Obama Appoints Bain Capital Consultant Jeff Ziets to Top Post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662209

Obama appoints industry insider to head the FCC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024521140

The Totally Unfair And Bitterly Uneven 'Recovery,' In 12 Charts – HuffPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662029

Larry Summers Gets 'Full-Throated Defense' From Obama In Capitol Hill Meeting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014553343#post1

Wall Street will get away with massive wave of criminality of 2008 - Statute of Limitations
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/business-economy-financial-crisis/untouchables/supreme-court-ruling-a-blow-for-future-financial-crisis-cases/

Income gap widest ever: 95 Percent of Recovery Income Gains Have Gone to the Top 1 Percent
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/09/10/one_percent_recovery_95_percent_of_gains_have_gone_to_the_top_one_percent.html

Older Workers:.Set Back by Recession, and Shut Out of Rebound
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/booming/for-laid-off-older-workers-age-bias-is-pervasive.html?smid=tw-share&_r=3&

Right now, forty percent of Americans make less than the minimum wage from 1968.
http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/raise-the-minimum-wage-19/?source=search


Daily CEO Pay Now Exceeds the Average Worker's Annual Salary –
http://thecontributor.com/daily-ceo-pay-now-exceeds-us-workers-annual-salary

New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc

Why do we need real change in the Democratic Party?
Because THIS ^ does NOT happen by accident.
It is the product of deliberate 30 year NeoLiberal (Clinton) Economic Policy to enrich the already RICH, and gut the Middle/Working Class. The Party doesn't even acknowledge The the existence of the Poor anymore.


[font color=firebrick][center]The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR. [/font][/center]

[IdaBriggs]

18. ^== WOW! Great Job!

[Alex4Martinez]

61. Yes indeed!

[azmom]

103. Great job!

[trudyco]

25. Good research Bvar22

Wasn't there something passed recently that negatively impacted ERISA?
And that is why the bus drivers in the midwest are having their retirement evaporate?

[vintx]

27. Thank you.

[Agony]

36. Right on the mark.

Thomas Frank writes about this very lucidly in "Listen, Liberal"

We have a serious fight for the Democratic Party on our hands… sad and hard not to be depressed about it.

Nicely done!

Cheers,
Agony

[cliffordu]

38. Awesome! Should be its own OP.

[Carolina]

46. K&R, double WOW, bvar22

This is a superb post

[dchill]

55. We're not worthy!

Excellent post.

[amborin]

65. yes, just a few of the reasons why the 99% has had it with being shafted

[840high]

79. .that^

[deathrind]

109. Excellent post.

Lots of good information.

Your post clearly and concisely points out why the transcripts of HRC's speeches to the banks is relavent. Had 2008 not happened they would be irrelevant but 2008 did happen many, many, many people lost everything. People who had nothing todo with causing the collapse while those that caused it got richer and bigger in its aftermath. IMO this is President Obama's second biggest mistake. Not holding those accountable for their actions that brought the global economy to its knees ensures that it will happen again.

In case you are wondering what IMO his first biggest mistake was ... "We tortured some people"...but we are not going to hold them accountable either.

[Seeinghope]

111. Thank you this is wonderful work!

[Raster]

113. Excellent post!

[PufPuf23]

120. Thanks Bvar22. We need change in the Democratic party. Time is growing late eom.

[Hiraeth]

11. One thing I can promise you, I will Not vote for Trump.

[TransitJohn]

23. Me neither. Not in a million years.

Not ever.

[Jarqui]

12. No doubt, Hillary has huge problems

I'm have real trouble contemplating that supporting Trump is the solution.

I was a bit amused by this part:

“I don’t want to vote for Trump. I want to vote for Bernie. But I have reached the point where I feel like voting for Trump against Clinton would be doing my patriotic duty. … If the only way to escape a trap is to gnaw off my leg, I’d like to think I’d have the guts to do it.”

But gnawing my leg off to vote for Trump is too much for me when I can't even conceive of puling the lever for him..

[pdsimdars]

14. Most important line for me

" the Democratic Party in the Clinton and Obama administrations has consistently embraced and implemented policies that strip workers of economic and legal rights to benefit investors and the elite professionals that serve them."



That is the real killer that no one likes to talk about. Clinton AND Obama were against the workers and for the investors. THAT is the UGLY truth.

[vintx]

29. And I can just hear trump now...

'sure I took advantage of regulations that allowed me to profit at the expense of workers, that's my job! But our politicians shouldn't make it profitable for companies to hurt American workers!'

Do I believe he'll change anything? Hell no.

Do I expect lots of voters to think they may as well try their luck with someone from outside the establishment?

[Voice for Peace]

91. I imagine him blathering wildly for 4 years while the rest of the govt focuses on keeping him happy

Busting their balls so Trump will like them, not make fun of them,
while at the same time trying to keep the 3-branch-function functional.
But not changing much for the little people.

Hillary, I think, would change her email security setup, but I don't feel
confident much else, at least not for the good of the little people.
Clinton Foundation likely to thrive, though, and probably a few questionable
leaders of oil rich nations will appear to become increasingly dangerous,
so under HRC the MIC will need lots and lots of money bombs planes jets
and clusterbombs in order to kill them and wreck the country then once
that's done the CLinton Foundation will need lots and lots of money for
humanitarian aid to the wartorn land.

[840high]

80. ...!100++++

[amborin]

88. TPP, TTIP, horrible for workers, and for everyone who reads the fine print

[azmom]

104. +1

[Dr Hobbitstein]

15. The "smartest progressives" she knows are fucking morons.

Anyone who claims to be a progressive but would vote for Trump is neither intelligent nor progressive.

[Baobab]

40. She isn't advicating voting for him, just explaining how many Democrats are so sick of the neolibera

that they want to send them a message by voting for their opponents.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

50. I didn't say she was advocating for him, just that her progressive friends are NOT smart. nt

[Baobab]

64. You think its wise to endorse the WTO scheme that seems to frame the US as having a huge debt to

developing countries they expect to be paid in high perceived value jobs? (If they can just be the winning lowest qualified bidders, which it is likely they can)

[Baobab]

69. IS it "Their turn" ? (The developing countries) to have those jobs?

Coincidentally, they also will be paid a lot less.

Do you even have the foggiest idea of what I am talking about?

[Voice for Peace]

96. I guess you know that's merely a subjective opinion, even if lots of people find it bewildering

I know progressives who are really really smart and on that account they will never vote for a Clinton.

I also know Republicans who are really really smart and " " " " " " " " " "

We often only think people are smart if they agree with our current best assessments.

But a TRULY really smart person knows how to look and consider what other people see.
How else to make progress -- blind?

in order to expand one's understanding, and weigh all the factors, not just the loudest or most popular. The smartest people I know don't commit themselves to people or causes without looking far ahead, and close up, and long term, and between the lines, and then make choices according to their own Conscience -- an inviolable, invaluable advisor.

[Ghost Dog]

75. So, to remain 'trapped' is smart?

... Your "fucking morons" remark is uncivil, btw.

[geek tragedy]

128. Anyone who calls themselves liberals/progressives

but vote for that racist, fascist pig Donald Trump are fucking morons. Not uncivil, just fact.

They are also considered malicious intruders under DU rules.

[tokenlib]

83. After over twenty years of DLC/Third Way/New Dem policy betrayals....

...I can see some people ready to take drastic measures. If the DNC/Third Way/New Dems were to suffer a large enough election disaster..some might thing their grip on power might be weakened. Especially as the Clintons are the ones who brought them into power some two decades ago..

[Skwmom]

16. If my readers are representative, Clinton and the Democratic Party are about to have a long-overdue

day of reckoning.

Oh, his readers are representative.

[Uncle Joe]

17. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, amborin.

[Jitter65]

21. Look, Hillary can't make them love her if they won't. There is a song for this. So, vote your

preference and live with the consequences. I am tired of trying to reason with people who are set to destroy the Democratic party over pure bs and BS.

If the passion of hate of Hillary is all they have, so be it.

The same people hate our government, and many hate our country for being inclusive. Just like ISIS hates us. They have spent the last two or three decades tearing us down and turning us against each other. We will just have to live with the consequences.

I'm ready for it.

[TransitJohn]

24. Bernie supporters are the same as ISIS?

The fuck did I just read?

[Agony]

34. Yeah that is literally the kind of shit Rush Limbaugh pulls out of his ass.

telling.

[jeff47]

56. Feel the unity. (nt)

[geek tragedy]

133. Those that would vote for Trump, there's a fair argument there.

The vast majority of Sanders supporters aren't morally depraved morons so of course comparing them to ISIS would be vile.

[Seeinghope]

118. Living in a bubble must be nice because if you haven't been aware of the degradation of the

Democratic Party you must be young or looking at the Party thru rose coloured glasses. The Democratic Party does not stand for what it used to stand for. It is not a Party of the working people. It is not a Party leading in Civil rights, human rights, workers rights......people that say you have to vote for Hillary Clinton because she is a Democrat and that we have to vote the Democratic candidate - I say O.K. I will vote the Democratic Candidate and it isn't Hillary Clinton, not by a long shot. It is Bernie Sanders. Human rights, civil rights, workers rights, veterans rights, Gay people's rights, women's rights, taking the profit out of our prison system, improving educational opportunities for people, making healthcare accessible for all. Those are the types of values that the Democratic Party had stood for and that made the Democratic Party strong. As those values have weakened so has the Democratic Party weakened.

It is overwhelming insane that so many people can look past the lies of Hillary Clinton. You don't have to try to research looking for some example from years ago on one statement that she made to prove lies. All you have to do is watch and listen to her speeches. Anybody can watch the lies pour out of her mouth! How does ANYBODY stand here with a straight face and say that it is O.K. to put a person who is a habitual liar in the White House? A person that isn't even a clever liar? A person that either thinks that they are above the law or that people are so stupid that it doesn't really matter if she lies................and you know what.........she may actually be right on both counts, but I can actually say I am not in that group. I have seen her lie way too many times, even about inconsequential things.

She is sneaky to the point of hiding the transcript contents under tighter security than she did top secret information while she was Secretary of State using her own personal server without permission. She lied about the e-mail situation in so many ways....deleting over 30,000 e-mails..... The list just goes on and on. Who cares right? Just lies, deceit on our national security, our economy, foreign policy......

I sickeningly laughed at the Republicans for getting stuck with Donald Trump. I thought that it served them right. Now I look at the Democratic Party and I am sickened by the loss of moral fibre and values. The corruption that I witness in the DNC and in Hillary Clinton has made me ill. The supporters of Hillary Clinton don't care about her lies and will vote for whatever the DNC feeds them.

Then last but not least there is the never ending smugness. Like a person should be proud supporting a possible President of the United States under investigation by the FBI for not handling national security, some top secret e-mails within the rules and regulations of the Government and instead used a private server that was vulnerable to be hacked and top secret information lost. Then erasing over 31,000 e-mails and lying about it trying to destroy Government property.

Smug......hummmmmm. Audaciious? I'd say those who think that this is a good choice for President of the United States.......................

This country is just so screwed.

[ybbor]

122. This ^^^

[Blue Meany]

22. This is well-written and well thought-out, and it does reflect the thinking on

Naked Capitalism (of which I am a regular reader) over time. The quandary I have is this: we currently are facing a nexus of unprecedented environmental, economic, and geo-political crises that can only be addressed by coordinated international action--and I think these are considerably more acute than is suggested by the discourse on NC.

Neither of the leading candidates has a record suggesting that they would offer the leadership we need: Trump is a crude, narcissistic, spoiled brat whose potential policies are impossible to determine from his erratic rhetoric; and Clinton, whatever her rhetoric, has a record of pushing the neoliberal policies, enforced by military action that are making things worse. Given that the absence of constructive action on issues like climate change, wealth inequality and neo-colonial economic relationships is going to result in enormous pain, destruction, and social chaos in some places, maybe even in the US, how can I use my vote to make things better?

[BillZBubb]

28. Good point. How does choosing between two evils offer an opportunity to do good?

The only outcome is "less worse". And by voting for one of them, you are de facto endorsing that one no matter how unpalatable you find their character and positions.

[pansypoo53219]

26. drumpf s unknown? his slimy bizness has a slime trail.

[onenote]

33. Oxymoron: smart progressive voting for Trump

Sorry, but someone who votes for Trump, and thereby votes against protecting the rights and interests of racial, ethnic, and religious minorities, women, the disabled and other vulnerable groups -- groups that in many cases true progressives have been willing to die for -- is neither smart nor a progressive.

[TwilightZone]

42. Agreed.

[Tarc]

35. Another "people I know" anecdotal OpEd...

[reformist2]

41. Do you want a list of real-life people? Because I know many that will do exactly this.

[Tarc]

43. Another "people I know" anecdotal DU Post...

[840high]

81. So do I.

[Tarc]

98. I wouldn't trust it as far as I can throw it

These sort of heartstring-pulling tales are a little too well-timed...

[Demsrule86]

93. This person writes for Naked Capitalism

She wants to reduce workers wages...boy the company Bernie types keep.

[Beacool]

47. "Some of the Smartest Progressives" he knows sound dumb as f*ck if they would rather have Trump.

Stupid, selfish and shortsighted is no way to go through life.

[MFM008]

51. That is RIDICULOUS

NO good progressive
no good democrat
no sane person
would vote for Trump.
garbage.

[tandot]

52. Sure

[madamesilverspurs]

53. Some of the "smartest" progressives . . .

Time to get a dictionary with a realistic definition of smart...

[2banon]

57. it's what we've been saying for years...

This just about sums it up:

Over time, the “neoliberal” economic order—which sees only good, never bad, in the relentless untrammeling of capital and the deregulation of markets—has created an unacceptable level of economic insecurity and distress for those outside the 1 percent and the elite professionals who serve them.

[Starry Messenger]

58. Correction: he's surrounded by stupid people

[Agschmid]

59. ...

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. So jerry brown is NOT a progressive because he backs fracking, but somebody who votes for Trump

might be a progressive. OK, then.



Sandersism in smithereens.

[amborin]

66. there's much more about Jerry Brown that's anti-progressive besides fracking

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. But somebody who votes for Trump might be a progressive?

Good lord.

[Baobab]

71. Its out of his hands because of those damn back room deals, so hes covering the ass of the #$%&*

Democratic and Republican parties.

by creating a cover story, in the grand tradition of such things.

[Baobab]

72. Brown is cover -story creating for the dishonest

Democratic and Republican parties.

creating a cover story, in the grand tradition of such things.

Sanders is simply pretending the (secretive) T deals don't exist, rather than lying to cover them up.

Also, he's not going to re-create them either (the 3 new T deals)

[joshcryer]

68. Jesus Fucking Christ, 57 recs to vote Trump over Clinton.

[Ghost Dog]

82. A demonstration of profound

reading comprehension and critical analysis on your part here.

Way to go, Josh?

[joshcryer]

95. Yeah, OK.

I'll rebut this trash article later.

[ebayfool]

84. The recs are not for Trump. They are for the article's explanation of how people feel @ the party ..

and it's treating Democrats as cogs to do as they are told, among many points. The old shut up and sit down. If that's all you take away from reading the entire thing, I have no idea how to make it clear to you.

BTW. I have rec'd OP's like the gorilla/kid story and the takeover of the Wildlife Preserve. Doesn't mean I'm pro killing endandered species, letting kids die to save them nor cheering frickin' militia groups storming the gates. It means I'm rec'ing to let others know it's a worthwhile read, or salient writing, or a train wreck in real time! As has been a fixture on DU for years. But I'm certain you know that, and are being disingenuous by saying otherwise. And youbetcherass I rec'd this OP. It has a lot of merit for discussion.



snip/

What they also object to is that the larger bloc of Sanders voters has been treated with abuse and contempt by the Clinton camp, despite the fact that their positions—such as strengthening Social Security and Medicare, stronger educational funding and higher minimum wages—have for decades polled by solid majorities or, at worst, ample pluralities in the electorate at large.
By contrast, the Democratic Party in the Clinton and Obama administrations has consistently embraced and implemented policies that strip workers of economic and legal rights to benefit investors and the elite professionals that serve them. Over time, the “neoliberal” economic order—which sees only good, never bad, in the relentless untrammeling of capital and the deregulation of markets—has created an unacceptable level of economic insecurity and distress for those outside the 1 percent and the elite professionals who serve them.

The result is that the U.S. economy is becoming lethal to the less fortunate, according to the New York Times, which reported this week that U.S. death rates have risen for the first time in a decade. The increase in death rates among less educated whites since 2001 is roughly the size of the AIDS epidemic. One cause, the opioid epidemic, resulted from Purdue Pharma overselling the effectiveness of reformulated OxyContin, then recommending higher dosages when it failed to work properly, which experts deemed a prescription for creating addicts, according to a number of lawsuits. This was permitted by the U.S. government, leading to thousands of unnecessary deaths. Despite President Barack Obama’s Panglossian claim that the economy is doing well, the spike in suicides to levels over those during the financial crisis belies that.

[joshcryer]

94. The article is full of shit.

[ebayfool]

100. In YOUR opinion. Others do not agree. But no response to the issue of conflating recs to...

supporting Trump over Clinton, I take it?

Again. I have rec'd OP's like the gorilla/kid story and the takeover of the Wildlife Preserve. Doesn't mean I'm pro killing endandered species, letting kids die to save them nor cheering frickin' militia groups storming the gates. It means I'm rec'ing to let others know it's a worthwhile read, or salient writing, or a train wreck in real time! As has been a fixture on DU for years. But I'm certain you know that, and are being disingenuous by saying otherwise. And youbetcherass I rec'd this OP. It has a lot of merit for discussion.

[joshcryer]

105. No, the article is objectively wrong.

You cannot call yourself progressive and vote Trump.

[ebayfool]

112. That's all you got out of that?

Nothin' else? If so, I dunno what to tell you. We are obviously working on different wavelengths here. Too bad, though. It could have been an opportunity to maybe make some discoveries about each side and where they are coming from.


Proceed, guvnah!

[geek tragedy]

134. 94 have decloaked thus far (jury results)

Splendid case being made here for the Sanders movement.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
On Thu Jun 2, 2016, 10:41 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

When Yves Smith Writes This in Politico, You Know Hillary Has Huge Problems
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512110140

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Fuck Donald Trump and anyone who would vote for him.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jun 2, 2016, 11:28 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Note to the Democratic establishment: You ignored the warnings, then you made your bed, now sleep in it.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: bullshit
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the blog post ("the larger bloc of Sanders voters has been treated with abuse and contempt by the Clinton camp&quot and I completely agree with the alerter.

Thank you.

[Hoyt]

76. No true "progressive" is going to vote for the racist Trump. I guess Berners are a different breed.

[Number23]

124. Pretty much

[Demsrule86]

90. She writes for naked Capitalism

not my go to place for progressive thought...do you ever check anyone out? Down with workers is now a Bernie value?


"Naked Capitalism is an American financial news and analysis blog that claims to "chronicle the large scale, concerted campaign to reduce the bargaining power and pay of ordinary workers relative to investors and elite technocrats."

[Eric J in MN]

131. It's a liberal blog about exploitation of workers and students. NT

NT

[dreamnightwind]

92. Rec'd for the term "Vichy Left"

Voting for Trump is going too far, but short of that, we DO have to find a way to break free from the corporate capture of the Democratic Party. I want no part of the Vichy Left.

[Jack Bone]

106. Gnawin' on it...

"If the only way to escape a trap is to gnaw off my leg...."

[struggle4progress]

117. Oh yay! Rightwing outlet Politico publishes opinion of lady from Goldman-Sachs

that "the smartest progressives will vote for Trump"

[geek tragedy]

126. No intelligent progressive would vote for Trump over Clinton

Only a profoundly stupid fake progressive would.