I really want to be nice and supportive of the Clintons and be enthused about this election...

[Armstead]

...But I can't. Just can't. They've done too much cumulative damage to the things I believe in over the years.

I know, I know. She'll be the nominee. Trump is awful. Yeah, I'll punch my anti-Trump ticket for her in November.

But I just can't ride the Hillary Railroad. Been there done that. Had enough of them.

I don't wish she and Bill badly. Would just prefer to see them enjoying a prosperous retirement from politics, and let the Democratic Party (and the nation) move on from being locked in the 80's and 90's and the grip of Corporate Centrism.

Oh I wish the third term allowance could be used by Obama instead of them. Even though he's too much to the centrist side for my taste, i trust him, agree with him on a lot, and believe he has the right instincts. And I like his style.

I guess once it has become official that once again it's the DemocratiClinton Party my DU involvement will be limited to politically correct things to dislike about the Republicans ...or fun little posts in the Lounge.

[democrattotheend]

1. I'm with you on one thing

As you can probably tell from my signature, I wish we could give Obama a third term. I haven't always felt that way but I do now. It is sad that he has really hit his stride as president and now it's almost time for him to go home.

I am not quite as jaded on Hillary as you are, but I obviously am not nearly as excited about her as I am about Bernie, or as I was about Obama.

[virtualobserver]

2. I believe that there are twists and turns yet ahead.

I don't believe that a straightforward Trump vs. Clinton race is in the cards.

I can't shake that feeling.

[TheProgressive]

4. I share your belief... Sanders may win/get the nomination...

Does the DLC/Clinton 'Democratic' party really want Trump as president? If they
don't, then Sanders is the only one who can will the Presidency...

[Cobalt Violet]

30. I believe it too.

It's not over yet.

[geek tragedy]

3. She's pretty much Al Gore.

Think of the complaints about Gore, compare them to what's said about her. Not likable, technocratic, phony legal scandal, etc.

And everyone at DU would have given a limb to have him in the WH instead of Bush.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Al Gore is a completely different political animal.

I can't imagine Al Gore would play so fast and loose with FOIA record-keeping and disclosure requirements.

[geek tragedy]

8. "No controlling legal authority"

There's always some stupid shit like that for which Democrats get crucified.

But Bush's plundering of the DOJ? Meh.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. I fear this deal runs a little deeper than that.

But honestly, I hope you guys are right that it's a giant nothingburger. I really do. In which case, hopefully it wraps up sooner rather than later.

I'll add, though, she's gonna have one hell of a time selling her big, expensive "manhattan project" to break the encryption on the American Public's iphones, after she went to all these lengths to keep her own shit private.

[geek tragedy]

13. My reaction to your last paragraph is

"Good."

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Same with the people in Silicon Valley who make their living selling secure products to consumers

and enterprise customers.

It's only the authoritarians who want to use "terror" as an excuse to go after more drug users, again, sort of like they did with the patriot act, who seem to be pushing that idea.

[geek tragedy]

16. As far as the relative levels of seriousness:

http://www.salon.com/2000/06/24/gore_34/

The biggest challenge for Vice President Al Gore this campaign season will not be stepping out of Bill Clinton’s shadow, but shedding the image of scandal that surrounds the Clinton-Gore administration. Those efforts were hampered again this week, when Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Penn., revealed that top officials within the Justice Department are urging Attorney General Janet Reno again to appoint an independent counsel to investigate the possibility that Gore misled DOJ officials about his fundraising activities in 1996.

Time is a flat circle.


There were probably people who refused to vote for Gore because of that stupid bullshit.

[Armstead]

9. Not a good comparison

Gore has gone through an evolution from being a DLC Clinton clone in the 90's to what he is today.

I remember when he was nominated he gave a great speech that was very liberal/progressive populism. But then he went back into the shell later in the election.

I think losing the election liberated him.

[geek tragedy]

12. I'm talking 2000 Al Gore.

Shockingly, Democrats become more liberal when the electorate becomes more liberal, or when they don't need to chase votes.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. I agree.

He had some gobsmackingly crappy advice that election.

[jack_krass]

18. Al Gore, though maybe a little wooden, was genuine. I knew where he stood

I dont feel I know who HRC is. Her airs, fake accents, changing positions with the political winds...

Gore would not have perpetrated Iraq, shown restraint in Libya. While wealthy, he didnt use his political connnections to make millions.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. I hope she didn't screw us all with this email deal. And no, you don't need a basement server

just to keep your own email address.

Leaders with paranoia, circle-the-wagons mentalities and reflexive penchants for non-disclosure and coverups...

we've seen this movie, it doesn't end well.

[StevieM]

7. If she wins the election I suspect that you will be pleasantly surprised, especially if

the Democrats can take back the Congress.

[Armstead]

10. I would prefer that....

But we'll only know in four years.

[panader0]

17. You speak for many of us.

[lmbradford]

19. I, too, have a conscience.

I cannot vote for her because I do. I want to. I keep trying to convince myself that that would be ok, but I KNOW it won't. So no vote for me. I will write Bernie in and stay true to my Democratic principles.

[Betty Karlson]

22. and mine.

[Armstead]

23. I'm trying to be polite and conciliatory but honest

My actual thoughts and feelings are not as diplomatic

[vintx]

26. +1

[aikoaiko]

24. I'm in the same boat, but neither HRC or her supporters give a hoot.

We are just fodder for the machine.

[MissB]

25. I appreciate both your honesty and civility.

I understand stepping away during the election. I'm sure you won't be the only one. Hopefully after November you'll wade back into the thick of things. Until then, enjoy the break (and the Lounge.)

[Demsrule86]

32. Well let's hope such

people are few and far between our kiss the progressive movement goodbye. The courts gone for 30 years would mean that we lose everything probably from the time of Roosevelt...and three branches of government under GOP control means and they can rig the vote...yeah we are finished then...but do toy around the edges and all- I am sure it will soothe your anger and hatred...sort of like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[MissB]

41. I think that being appreciative of the folks like the OP

will go a long ways towards healing the division of the primary race. The OP clearly stated they will vote for Clinton if she is the nominee.

I am a Clinton supporter, so I'm thrilled that I will be able to vote for her again in November. But I also really appreciate the content and tone of the OP and wanted to acknowledge that.

I feel that may be a better method than the anger you show in your post. It appears that you think that I'm some angry Bernie Sanders supporter. Not even the OP comes off as an angry Bernie Sanders supporter.

So, once again, I thank the OP for their honesty and civility.

[Faux pas]

27. Write In

is my solution.

[Armstead]

28. Unfortunately, the very last thing I want to see is President Trump

Lesser of....and all that.

[Demsrule86]

33. Why?

A' write in' is a vote for Trump.

[Faux pas]

37. That's

one person's opinion. Either way we're screwed. With my write in I get to vote for my choice, and it ain't hrc.

[NCTraveler]

29. K&R

You will not be left without. I think we(myself included) often focus all of our thought on the Presidency. I truly believe that to be one of the greatest failures of the party itself. It seems as if its almost promoted even though so much of the work is done at the local level. Republicans get that very well. There are a ton of races where Clinton is not on the ticket. Lots for you to do for people outside of the corporate side of the party.

[Demsrule86]

31. No you don't

You reek of hatred and are willing to see the country destroyed by Trump...and lose the courts for a generation...now that is a powerful hate. But I do look forward to the day when you will be posting this crap somewhere else.

[pinebox]

34. Calm down

He has a right to his opinion and how he feels and don't be mad if many of us feel the same way because a lot of us do.
In the end, we see it as getting screwed, be it Hillary or be it Trump.

[KoKo]

38. "Kindness and Love"...speaks of Reek of Hatred?

Quite a contrast...

[Armstead]

40. Speaking of reeking of hatred....

Kindness and Love, eh?

[randome]

36. The moments when politics is exciting have always been few and far between.

Live your life. Find something else to get excited about. Whatever you do, don't get depressed. It isn't worth it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

39. I do...I can frequently tune it out

But I'm still a political junkie. Can't shake that gut level connection with current events.