2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"We will never get past the primary if sore winners choose to keep trashing Bernie Sanders."
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by LostOne4Ever (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).
Response to Miles Archer (Original post)
Post removed
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)I know that you know this, and I also know that it's more convenient to your argument to leave that detail out.
I am not talking about Clinton supporters "defending" themselves.
And there is a boatload of "sore winners" here as well.
Response to Miles Archer (Reply #3)
Post removed
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)name in and watch all the complaints.
Mika
(17,751 posts)aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)I know that's a subtle concept.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Why the fuck is 'hate' being spewed at our candidates and at other Democrats?
You tell me why that should be accepted here?
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)Every OP posted by a Sanders supporter is an attack on Clinton and her supporters.
Cloaking it in passive agressive inquiries doesnt change that fact, it just the cowardice of some supporters
Like anonymous death threats...such brave, peace loving people berners are
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)perfectly, not only with this latest post but the last two OPs of yours I read!
Continue on....June 16th is just around the corner.
So is the Convention where Hillary will accept the Dem nomination.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)be proud.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)She easily outsmarts and out classes both of the candidate now running against her.
enid602
(9,685 posts)And admitting that Hillary won is also admitting that someone else lost. That's a start. But this election is but a blip in history. Bernie's revolution, if it is lasting will continue even without him as the nominee. Unfortunately, we are witnessing a situation in which the entire Republican establishment is slowly but surely endorsing a madman. We need to get our shit together to face this imminent threat.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)I changed my name and avatar after the 2004 election because my name was specific to 2004. Who is them?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)place. Vermin can be eliminated without hesitation.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)each poster has 11 hides!! 11! I cannot wait for Skinner to enforce the rules again, people trolling this board need to be banned. Period.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)People who toss the word 'hate' causally around like a nerf ball are usually those who have had precious little confrontation with actual hate in this world so full of that toxin. Those who abuse the word tend to be straight and white and born to the Christian tradition that dominates in the US, that is to say cossetted and secure children of privilege.
I am used to such things as Westboro Baptist Church. That's some hate. Then there are the people who do violent crimes against minorities because their bigotry motivates such acts. Hate crimes we call them. People who have been beaten for existing will rarely claim that criticism of a politician is 'hate' and there are reasons for that.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Too many Clinton supporters appear to have no understanding of the idea that reasonable people might simply disagree with their candidate on substantive grounds. Instead of answering such criticism, they try to delegitimize it. Their method is this "Hillary hating" meme, which, as you explain, is totally over the top.
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)But yeah, the constant, non-stop crybaby whining over "hating" Clinton has worn paper-thin.
I don't like her.
I don't trust her.
I won't be voting for her.
And no, I do not support Trump.
"Instead of answering such criticism, they try to delegitimize it."
True...if you are not on all fours begging for a snausage from their candidate of choice, you must either:
1). Hate Clinton
2). Hate America AND Clinton
3). Want Trump to win
4). Not be a "real" Democrat + hate Clinton + hate America + want Trump to win
...and the raging, whining paranoia has rocketed way past the point of being amusing.
It's pathetic, actually. It's like the kid in grade school with the 1/2 inch penis who has to undress for gym class for the first time. These are the people throwing the monkey excrement.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)The Clinton supporters *really* need to step back and see what they're doing. They're chasing potential votes away from THEIR candidate with their nonsense. I think that's why Skinner said what he said. He doesn't want Trump to be President, and neither do I.
kerry-is-my-prez
(10,283 posts)don't represent Sanders. Just because one/several people posts crazy-ass stuff on this board shouldn't be an excuse. Personally, I think a lot of the crazy stuff is being posted by Republicans or people looking to create non-unity.
QC
(26,371 posts)The word "hate" has been used inappropriately for so long here.
Real hate is not criticizing a politician on a message board. Only the very privileged--and childish--would say so. It drags the discussion down to the level of junior high kids talking about who's dreamy and who's a poopiehead.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)But for some unity of the Party is secondary to being able to disparage others.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Gloating is ugly.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)812 bans in one candidate group is pretty hateful (not to mention thinned skinned)!
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)honest as president. We need someone that isn't beholden to Wall Street and Goldman-Sachs. We need someone that won't send our families to die for wars for corporate profits. But the hubris was too great. Now Clinton needs some Party unity. Party unity that we told you would be difficult to get with Clinton as the candidate. But again the hubris prevailed.
I think party unity to the Corporate Democrats means for the Progressive Democrats to fall in line and shut up and they will bad mouth us until we do. It was hubris and arrogance that gave us George Bush twice and it may well give us Trump. You need to find a scapegoat. Maybe Ralph Nader is available.
LonePirate
(14,367 posts)That sounds more like blackmail than unity. Sanders has lost. His supporters need to accept that.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)boston bean
(36,931 posts)I dont personally insult anyone here.
Unlike the massive abusive personal insults directed at me specifically.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)No, really, go back, read those, and tell me again with a straight face "there's no hate there."
boston bean
(36,931 posts)Unlike the personal nasty insults directed at me specifically. I dont do that.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)high likelihood of being hidden. I've seen the most awful things said about Hillary and they are left unchallenged. Then a Hillary supporter responds and their post is hidden.
DU is a small microcosm. I think we pay it too much attention and waste our time on trying to change silly, but dangerous, thought patterns.
So your hidden posts mean nothing.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I would laugh if they arrived on June 16th. All these folks making divisive threads and replies with almost a dozen hides need to go and stay gone imo.
QC
(26,371 posts)the new rules will result in all the people they don't like being banned while sparing them.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)and the sentence is rendered conditional. IF Hillary wins, and IF the winners then continue to bash Bernie supporters, it will be no great surprise but of limited value. Other than to dispense with you personal agitation at knowing so many people really doubt your hero and think she will potentially do awful things. Why? Because she's done them in the past.
It must hurt to follow someone so mistrusted and often despised. But she clearly brings it on herself. For all her good qualities, her less admirable qualities ring very loud and clear for a large part of the population, and this includes many, many Democrats and Democratic leaning peoples.
It doesn't really help her positive to go around bashing people who see things that are clearly there.
Why don't you work on your own candidate, and get her to be more positive to more of the people who make up the Democratic Party?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Being spewed by BSS.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)And the people that voted for Clinron and we won't defend ourselves. How about that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"Whenever I think of Sanders, I think about him getting off abusing women and gang raping.
Ya... Both pretty outrageous, you think? Offensive to the core. But, that is your point, right?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2115597
Vile, criminal accusations base on nothing at all aimed at a Democratic candidate. To produce such language out of your own brain and typed that and drag it to DU is a creepy choice.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)did you tell the Op how vile he was?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I do not accept that as reason for adult behavior. And why would you assume that my dealings with others are something for you to even speak of?
Let me tell you this. There are many occasions on DU where I would criticize 'my side' or even defend Hillary on some points, I used to. But what happens is I come into a thread and see things like you and others post and there is no way I will offer succor to that, nor will I appear to stand with it. Not a chance. Posting things like you did, it's not good for the community. The OP was pointed, but Hillary did vote for that war, and she does own that choice. There was actual political motive for the language. Your post was out of the gutter and totally unrelated to Bernie Sanders actions or politics. You associated him with gang rape, that's worse than saying someone is a hawk. It is. Much, much worse. It's not something that should be said of anyone who is not guilty of it. Ever. It's not politics. It's just you saying horrible things to lash out at that OP. It's not the same. Johnny did not do it first. Johnny made a political point in an over the top way. You smeared a good man with rape language. It's not the same.
You know who did this sort of thing first? Donald Trump, who claimed Mexicans are rapists.
Comments like yours ruin DU and do harm to the process of democracy itself. All of this bashing serves only yourself and your back slapping cohort. It harms Hillary Clinton. It harms Bernie Sanders. It harms the Democratic Party.
You make comments that 'Democrats voted for Hillary'. My State is very Democratic, we voted for Bernie. In 08 and 12 we voted for Obama. Texas, it voted for Not Obama. And yet you freely disparage Oregon, Washington, Hawaii for voting for Bernie. 'Democrats vote for Hillary, Sanders people aren't Democrats, huff, puff Sanders voters don't show up to vote' you say. Your State, second lowest turnout of the cycle. Democratic turnout 7.2%. But you bash at us, with two Democratic Senators and 4 out of 5 Reps, a Democratic Governor and State House as not being Democrats.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)as are the Bernie fanatics
Or this ridicuous run to the convention wouldnt be happening
The lack of emotional maturity from Bernie and his remaining zealous supporters is astounding.
Doesnt matter though
I'm glad the naive "my way or the highway crowd if zealots rose up and exposed their true colors --a minority trying a hostile take over of the Dem party.
Hillary will be the Dem nominee
and theres not a damned thing Bernies camp can do about it.
The really funny thing is they think carrying on with the temper tantrum over him after the convention is going to bring people to their side so apparently they still haven't learned it's their attitude that is the big problem
Oh well....too bad for them! Its helping HC dramatically and we thank you!
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)that you won't vote for her so why bother?
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)I said I wasn't going to vote for her...yes, repeatedly, because it just feels so damned good every time I say it.
But the cheering over how all Sanders posts will stop on June 16th was nothing more than delusion.
That's why I "bother."
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)you'll be gone from here. Suits me just fine.
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)unifying the party.
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)Because you're so special and worthy and all.

BootinUp
(51,323 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)How terrible. .
Response to Miles Archer (Original post)
Post removed
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)"We will never get past the primary if sore winners choose to keep trashing Bernie Sanders."
unc70
(6,501 posts)They seem clueless the source of the quote, or that the other thread wanted to argue with Skinner.
This thread really proves the point.
Thenewire
(130 posts)His values are selfish and irresponsible in nature and detrimental to minorities. If his supporters want to join the political discourse that is completely fine but they should do so by starting their own political party instead of hijacking the only party that gives a damn about minorities.
unc70
(6,501 posts)You were replying to Ocelot's post, the immediate antecedent is Skinner.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Maybe bring back stoning for liars too
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)If the primaries are over and Hillary has won, what are you grousing about - or are you just being a sore winner? Your statement is grotesquely false in any event but I'm tired of arguing and I'm not interested in being a sore loser.
Thenewire
(130 posts)just conspiracy theorists and a persecution complex. And even if he were to bring anything good those two things alone undo all of it.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)mac56
(17,821 posts)
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)But look at what Black Lives Matters Ashley Williams had to say:
The 1994 Crime Bill that she so vigorously defended not only expanded incarceration, but stripped funding for college education from prisoners. The Clinton legacy allowed for policies that prevented anyone convicted of a felony drug offense from receiving food stamps or income assistance. Clinton-led welfare reform fundamentally ripped apart the social safety net.
Make no mistake, Hillary Clinton's efforts to push these policies resulted in the continued destruction of Black communities and the swift growth of our mass incarceration crisis.
While the Elite of our Party have been bought by the Big Corporations, Sen Sanders brings a return to Democratic Values.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Response to Thenewire (Reply #21)
Marr This message was self-deleted by its author.
djean111
(14,255 posts)if Bernie is not the nominee.
If the Democratic Party is being represented by a warmongering Third Way candidate, then it is not the Democratic Party I have belonged to all of my long life, and I would be ashamed to be associated with it. Posts by Hillary's supporters are irrelevant.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)think about it, she never was a democrat.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)This is Skinner's living room. Keep trashing it at you own peril.
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Just a guess.
Thenewire
(130 posts)And why should the Democratic party bow down to a bully whose supporters use intimidation and violence and believe that Sanders deserves to shape the Democratic platform after losing by well over 3 million votes. Sanders is the one who is calling the Democratic party corrupt.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I've noticed when bullies are confronted they always become the victim. The Clinton Campaign has the Billionaires, the Banksters, Wall Street, even the Koch Bros, Richard Perle and the neocons, Henry Kissinger, the Corp-Media, Super-Pacs, and the DNC trying to push the People around. Sen Sanders has shown that he has the support of the People. The 3 million vote lead is a lie, typical of the sad attempt to push the agenda of corporate America. It completely disregards those states where Sanders won caucuses.
Why do I think you would have called our Founders bullies?
unc70
(6,501 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)
I needed the laugh. People should read and think before posting.
I'm waiting for the alert on this OP. Or an alert on this post.
ETA Miles, you've done a service to DU. Skinner probably got a laugh out of this.
ETA2 Should be "read the link" in the first line.
Response to unc70 (Reply #15)
Miles Archer This message was self-deleted by its author.
unc70
(6,501 posts)My post should have read "read the link" rather than just "read". See if my post makes more sense with that.
I was being very appreciative of your OP and the laughs were from watching certain of the posters attack Skinner's quote. I was almost hoping someone would alert on your OP to see the jury results.
Sorry for making a hash of things. I sent a PM since I'm probably now on your Ignores.
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)Thank you for this, and the PM. I definitely misunderstood where you were coming from and deleted my original response to you. No harm, no foul. And no, you are not on my ignore list.
Response to Miles Archer (Original post)
Marr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)Once the most politically active members of the left are all locked up in the same football stadium, the enthusiasm for infighting might decline a bit. People should wake up.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Brought up yet again the fact that Hillary joined with John Kerry and Joe Biden in voting for the IWR.
If Bernie started focusing his attacks on Trump, Hillary supporters would respect him a lot more.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)It's part of her record, and completely fair game to use in an election. I guess she's not as thoroughly 'vetted' as Hillarians are wishing.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I take it the same way I take criticism from Republicans.
My distaste for Hillary's policies and past actions has nothing to do with attacks by her surrogates, for whom I have no respect anyway.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)anonymous posters on the internet to sway their vote is a complete imbecile.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)All of us, on both sides, have just been farting in a whirlwind. This is just an internet message board, after all, and it's merely entertainment. I do recall one poster who made a BFD about how mean the Sanders supporters on DU were, and although he had previously supported Sanders he was now switching to Hillary. He had every right to do so, of course, but that's a seriously dumb reason. On the other hand, being repeatedly insulted by strangers certainly will not influence me to support their favored candidate.
WhiteTara
(31,260 posts)bashing Hillary. It would go a long way to heal the party. He needs to turn his attacks to Trump.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)And since there are no attacks on Bernie already, the only people who will have to change their behavior are the anti-Hillary people.
And in a week Bernie will become irrelevant, so there wouldn't be any reason to attack him, even if people were doing it now which they aren't.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
rock
(13,218 posts)and we have a lot of ground to cover, we've actually got to rev up our trashing.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)TDale313
(7,822 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 4, 2016, 01:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Trashing Sanders and his supporters when your candidate is already likely to be the nominee and will need the votes is not smart. And yeah, supporters' tone matters too. I see a whole lot of Hillary supporters who never learned how to win graciously. But keep it up. Make it that much harder for those of us not Bernie or Bust to get past the ugliness.
ecstatic
(35,075 posts)Act like a sore loser and you'll be treated like one.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)and her aces were up the sleeve
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)Your concept of reality in H-> world doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of the 2016 Presidential election, Sanders' concept of reality will probably never match your reality, if your condition for "moving past it" is that he will "accept" your H-> reality, we're probably not going to move past it.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)...every call for civility to date has resulted in an increased flinging of monkey poo.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)That's what Skinner posted. DU will pretty much look just like it looks now on the 7th, maybe a little uglier. We go into GE mode on the 16th, not the 7th.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)It looks like DU is never going to get past the primary.
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)I've never seen a split like this in the many years that I've been on the site.
My prediction, for whatever it is worth is:
1). DUers who are not pro-Clinton will have a hard time grinding that to a halt on June 16th. While Skinner has said that there won't be "mass bannings" (much to the chagrin of people who have been giddy and orgasmic over the prospect of mass bannings), anyone who decides to voice their displeasure with Clinton or attempts to advocate someone else on the ticket, whether it is Bernie Sanders or a "spoiler," will ultimately get shown the door.
2). DUers who are not pro-Clinton and who also want to retain their membership on DU just won't participate in Clinton discussions.
3). Some DUers will get fed up with 100% pro-Clinton 24/7 and will go on sabbatical until after November
4). There will be a percentage of Sanders supporters who will "rally behind" Clinton, but I have to believe they will do so in relatively small numbers. If a person became a Sanders supporter in the first place, and they had a conviction in being one, there is literally no way that they can just put that on the shelf and "get behind" Clinton.
5). There are basically two options available for DUers on June 16th: Shut up, or get behind Clinton. In no way, shape, or form are those two options going to "get us past the primary." DU is already split, and with the keys to the car being handed to the Clinton Group on the 16th, it comes down to a choice of join the Clinton Group, or shut up, or speak up and get banned.
I'd like to see a different possible outcome, but given the rules that will be in place on the 16th, it's just not going to happen.
Buns_of_Fire
(19,161 posts)And there are a lot of "ignore" lists that are probably not going to be cleared anytime soon (if ever).
Robbins
(5,066 posts)if miracle happens at convention then i will return.otherwise i won't be part of clinton underground.
half of members of DU may be gone after june 16.
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)I don't need to attend the Clinton Group celebration. I've seen enough of it in the last month.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Response to B Calm (Reply #103)
Post removed
Miles Archer
(23,272 posts)It's almost like you single-handedly stormed the beach at Normandy and achieved a remarkable victory.
Except you didn't. You succeeded at silencing a few people in an Internet Chat Room.
Still, that doesn't diminish your raw power.
I can see you, sitting at your keyboard, looking like Arnold Schwarzenneger, gaze narrowing behind your dark shades, intensely typing
"You started it.
We're ending it."
WOW! I can see the corners of your mouth, narrowing into a self-satisfied smile as you typed that last period.
"I'll show them who's boss," you probably thought.
And you did. You succeeded at silencing a few people in an Internet Chat Room.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)and brutal attacks that it is only natural for them to fight back, and yes gloat, once their candidate wins. I wouldn't worry too much about the population at large. Most of us can separate our online life from our real ones.
Response to eastwestdem (Reply #127)
Post removed
LostOne4Ever
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