Bernie Sanders to Hillary Clinton: Yes, Trump's Foreign Policy Ideas Are Scary. But SO ARE YOURS

[Segami]

Bernie Sanders responded to Hillary Clinton's foreign policy speech on Thursday with a hit at her credentials, including her involvement in the Iraq War and so-called "regime change" in Libya.

"We need a foreign policy based on building coalitions and making certain that the brave American men and women in our military do not get bogged down in perpetual warfare in the Middle East," he said in a statement. "That's what I will fight for as president."

Earlier Thursday, Clinton gave a speech that laid out her own foreign policy agenda and criticized presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump for his "thin skin" and "dangerously incoherent" ideas.

"Americans aren't just electing a president in November, we're choosing our next commander-in-chief, a person we count on to answer questions of war and peace, life and death," Clinton said. "The person the Republicans have nominated for president cannot do the job."

On that point, Sanders agreed. However, he added, Clinton wasn't much better.

"I agree with Secretary Clinton that Donald Trump's foreign policy ideas are incredibly reckless and irresponsible," he said in his statement. "But when it comes to foreign policy, we cannot forget that Secretary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq, the worst foreign policy blunder in modern American history, and that she has been a proponent of regime change, as in Libya, without thinking through the consequences."

His comments fell in line with much of the progressive sector's response to Clinton's speech, which included criticism from journalists and policy experts such as Jeet Heer of The New Republic, Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept, and Sam Husseini of the Institute for Public Accuracy.


cont'

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/03/sanders-clinton-yes-trumps-foreign-policy-ideas-are-scary-so-are-yours

[Segami]

1. Hillary Clinton = Neocon = More wars to come

[lewebley3]

9. Its time for Sanders to go: he is about Himself: and knows nothing about foreign policy

[Ed Suspicious]

53. Oh lewebley3, isn't it nappy time?

[Ferd Berfel]

11. Clinton is a neocon chicken-hawk. MOre wars, more dead Americans (and others) and more

of our taxes down the neocon toilet are inevitable if she in in the WH.

This will only get worse

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. They're both scary on foreign policy and I don't want either as president.

[CountAllVotes]

3. Vote Sanders 2016

They only real anti-war choice!

Sanders 2016!

[lewebley3]

10. Sander is not a leader: people who know him don't support him

[DebDoo]

19. Bernie is the definition of leader. He knows what's right and fights for it *before* it is the

Bernie is the definition of leader. He knows what's right and fights for it *before* it is the
Easy thing to stand up for. He doesn't wait until safe to jump onboard, he builds the ship everyone jumps onto.

[lewebley3]

73. No, he doesn't: He didn't run until he was 72: Bush crashed everything: Sanders did

nothing but talk. He could have run the campaign during the mid-term
elections and save the Dem majority for Obama to keep passing progressives
bills. Now, has lost and he is bashing the Dem party that was kind enough
to allow him access to the ballot, even though he has never run as a Dem
an won an office.

[lagomorph777]

34. We get to choose between endless random accidental wars or endless intentional wars

No thanks.

[RoccoR5955]

4. Bernie PWNED Clinton! n/t

[basselope]

5. Trump has no real foreign policy ideas.

In many ways I am far more frightened of the ones that Clinton DOES have, because she has shown herself to be completely reckless when it comes to foreign policy.

[cpwm17]

7. We're entering the most dangerous times in decades.

We have two extremely dangerous candidates that seriously threaten the future of this world. Clinton is more explicit about her threats and she has a terrible history, and Trump is all over the place.

If Clinton gets in office, who is going to stop her from starting the next war? Her fans obviously couldn't care less about the potential death and destruction. They've made that abundantly clear.

[pinebox]

6. This is of course the truth

Trump is scary but Hillary has a history of showing it.
We're screwed.

[Segami]

8. As Democrats, we should be truthful to ourselves....

...by asking yourself this question..

[lewebley3]

12. American needs leadership: not a pacifist: Sanders would not keep American safe

[Segami]

13. Your comments are nothing but nonsense....

[VulgarPoet]

17. If American safety is so important to you, then let me know when you go enlist.

We don't need our servicemembers to continue to donate their blood to foreign sands in the New Age Vietnam.

[lewebley3]

74. American safety is important always to everyone

[frylock]

24. Hey, good news! You, too, can help to keep American safe.

http://www.goarmy.com/about/serving-in-the-army/types-of-soldiers/enlisted-soldier.html

[tonyt53]

28. They won't say a word until their cell phone towers are taken down. Then they'll complain

[phleshdef]

30. Take that right wing fear mongering bullshit somewhere else.

It has no place here.

[immoderate]

35. War is peace!

I know I've heard this before...

--imm

[lewebley3]

72. Like Sanders you wish the real world away: Real leaderships faces the facts head on

[anotherproletariat]

38. So, you have a strong belief in a candidate who isn't going to get the nomination.

What is the logical next step?

[seabeyond]

14. Sanders policy. It needs to be different. Don't know what, not interested, running for President.

[CharlotteVale]

15. So true.

[AtomicKitten]

16. Hear, hear.

[kentuck]

18. Bad timing...

..for such comments, in my opinion. He should have joined in with criticism of Trump. Not very classy, Bernie.

[DebDoo]

21. Who needs classy? We need honesty, intelligence, integrity and good judgement.

[seabeyond]

22. Sanders has not hit any one of the four you mention.

[DebDoo]

23. this kind of thinking is what makes a Clinton presidency so damn scary. You've been lied to so much

You don't recognize genuine honesty, or the other three, anymore.

[seabeyond]

39. No. I have done rsearch on Sanders and have paid attention. Clinton campaign has not said a single

damn thing about this issue, so why are you blaming the Clinton campaign, and being lied to?

Sanders campaign has run as the campaign of integrity and has missed the boat repeatedly, by his own actions. He has run a very negative campaign, while professing he does not do that. He has stolen data, then sues DNC. He blames Clinton and Democrats for his losses falsely accusing them of theft. He has done nothing but attack, accuse, and lied about the Democratic party and Clinton.

I recognize honesty. So I have to ask, why don't you? Why have you fallen for this scam?

[frylock]

26. It's hard to recognize those traits when you have no familiarity with them.

[seabeyond]

40. What a personal attack that is.

[frylock]

41. Pull the trigger.

[seabeyond]

42. No. You know nothing about me. I am not running for office and I have not been forefront

presenting myself for people to make that judgment.

Find a lie, lack of integrity, or the other two, before accusing me of something.

This would be a point of lack of integrity, and also what Sanders does. Accuse people of something without proof. Kinda why I state, or my position, he lacks integrity.

[frylock]

44. I know you post a lot of bullshit about Bernie Sanders.

The post I replied to is a prime example.

[seabeyond]

46. You post a lot of bullshit about Clinton. Does that make you dishonest, unintelligent,

lacking integrity, or lacking good judgment?

[frylock]

48. Do I? Any examples that you can provide?

[seabeyond]

51. Nah... lol, in all my integrity, I will say, I mostly notice you just with one liners

insulting those you do not like what they say.

[frylock]

54. My one liners are typically directed toward those aforementioned bullshit posts.

[seabeyond]

55. Per you opinion, but ya, I get that.

[Segami]

43. Some elevator music while you wait....

....

[frylock]

45. I was thinking the same!

In fact, I believe I'll listen to that when I walk down to the taco shop for lunche.

[seabeyond]

47. honesty, intelligence, integrity and good judgement.

Honesty: He has more pinocchos than Clinton. He lies often creating the Dems and repugs as the same, accusing us of theft, treating him unfairly. Stealing endorsements. Stealing Logos.

Integrity: Never running a negative campaign, and all recognize how negative this campaign is. Steals data then sues DNC. Has another stupid ass suit against DNC. Falsely accuses without doing his homework and is sure before attacking.

Intelligence: He has stumped speech the same talking points for over four decades. Refusal to brush up on foreign policy or any other issue that doesn't interest him and has failed in his campaign, repeatedly.

Good judgment: The Pope summoned him for a meeting then spent all that money flying across the pond to sit in some intellectual conference he knew nothing about.

[frylock]

49. Another prime example.

Thanks for playing.

[seabeyond]

52. Whatevah...

[LiberalLovinLug]

67. You and lewebley3 should get a room

[seabeyond]

68. Isn't that like, middle school insult?

[dinkytron]

33. Absolutely. Classy. The world is going to hell and we''re talking about classy.

[frylock]

25. Yes, Trump's Foreign Policy Ideas Are Scary.

Yes, Trump's Foreign Policy Ideas Are Scary.

[anotherproletariat]

20. When is he going to realize that this is over?

I guess next week when she is declared the presumptive nominee, and gets endorsements from Obama, Biden, Warren, Carter, Gore and all the other big Dems, and the media stops paying attention to him. Win or lose in CA, it's over.

[Bjornsdotter]

32. If Bernie doesn't win the nomination

...I fully expect that he will continue to fight for what he believes.

If Hillary doesn't win....well I guess she can give more speeches. Who knows what she believes in between the lies about the emails, bad memory about landing under sniper fire in Bosnia, and her flip-flopping on issues.

[anotherproletariat]

36. I hope you are right that he will fight for the nominee. nt

[Beacool]

65. If???

He's not going to win the nomination.

[Bjornsdotter]

66. If...

...it's part of a Conditional Sentence specifically the present simple tense. As the Democratic Convention has yet to occur the possibility exists.

As of June 3, 2016, neither Hillary nor Bernie is the official candidate for the Democratic Party. I believe that event will occur in late July at the Democratic Convention.

[David__77]

58. It is what it is, "over" or not.

It could be that the attention of media on Sanders will be reduced greatly in the period ahead. I consider that likely. Nonetheless, he could still play an important role in the discussions that unfold in the months ahead. I think that Jesse Jackson probably played such a role in 1988, while not being the Democratic candidate for president that year.

[YouDig]

27. 4 more days Bernie. Enjoy that spotlight!

[B Calm]

29. It's hard for me to vote for anyone who supported the Iraq War.

[Nonhlanhla]

31. Why is he doing this?

Blurring the lines between Hillary and Trump like this is not helpful. Does he want Trump to win? There are real differences between Hillary and Trump. Yes, Hillary is hawkish, but she is not insane. Trump is a demagogue with no sense of restraint. Only a moron can't see the difference between the two.

[David__77]

60. Clinton might reposition herself as not so hawkish.

If she outlined a foreign policy that a a great number of self-identified progressives found great (and I allow for that this might already be the case), I think that would undermine many critiques of her from the left.

Personally, I would like her to state that she will pursue cooperative economics and diplomatic relations with other nations including Russia and China in the interest of mutual benefit and international stability. I would like her to oppose US support for Islamist insurgents in Syria and support a comprehensive peace settlement there led by Syrians.

I also acknowledge that I'm not an expert in this realm and am not a high information voter. My thoughts are based on my sense that Clinton would not be as hesitant as Obama in militarily or otherwise intervening abroad.

[Nonhlanhla]

61. My sense about her is different

Although of course I could be wrong. Even her Iraq War vote was not intended to be a vote for unilateral aggression - as it was clear in her remarks at that time, she saw it as strongarming Saddam, and she did not expect BushCo to not allow the inspectors to finish their task first before actually going to war. My sense is that she would not have acted in the same way.

Obama was more aggressive than I would have anticipated. Whether Hilary is more aggressive than him, I'm not sure. I do know that she not the bloodthirsty vampire that she is often depicted as. And unlike Trump she is informed. My concern in the post above is a genuine one. I don't see the point in Bernie attacking her at this stage. He has lost the nomination, and only the most delusional people still believe he has a shot at it. Hence it is utterly counterproductive for him to attack Hillary - it just plays into Trump's hands.

[David__77]

62. Productive or counterproductive...

I don't know that Clinton getting criticized by Sanders - who is widely understood to be a leftist - is going to harm her electoral prospects. I notice that the right-wing radio programs I listen to don't really critique Clinton as a "socialist" or much of a leftist; rather, my sense is that these right-wing radio programs mainly paint Clinton as lawless and corrupt. I think it would be to Clinton's benefit to focus on her policy differences from Trump, distinguishing herself as to the left of Trump (more progressive, anti-racist, pro-peace, and other assorted shorthands) - not simply as "more competent" or "more experienced." I can imagine that some criticism from the left be beneficial to Clinton as her campaign determines its messaging in the period ahead.

[Nonhlanhla]

63. Timing and kind of criticism

Those are the issues. The primaries are for all intents and purposes over, and yet Bernie is continuing to alienate his supporters from Hillary instead of starting to show them why she is after all better than Trump. That is a real problem.

Secondly, his criticisms from the left have never been the issue. It's his smearing of her as corrupt that is the problem. He's been playing right into Rove's hands with that. It's a known fact that Rover started a smear campaign against Hillary on that note about a year ago.

[One Black Sheep]

37. Yes, all those are natural points to bring up

good for Bernie to do so.

[AzDar]

50. Our Lady Of Poor Judgement...

[imagine2015]

56. K & R

[fried eggs]

59. Glenn Glenwald is progressive now?

[Beacool]

64. Hillary gave a good speech that was praised by most experts.

Sanders brought up the IWR vote.

Yawn.......

[JEB]

71. No skin off your ass, evidently.

The tables below summarize reports on Iraqi casualty figures.

Scientific surveys:
Source Estimated violent deaths Time period
Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 violent deaths March 2003 to June 2006
Lancet survey 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths March 2003 to June 2006
Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict March 2003 to August 2007
PLOS Medicine Survey[2] Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war. March 2003 to June, 2011

Body counts:
Source Documented deaths from violence Time period
Associated Press 110,600 violent deaths March 2003 to April 2009
Iraq Body Count project 112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths[4][5][6][7] March 2003 to March 2013
Classified Iraq War Logs[4][8][9][10] 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[11][12] January 2004 to December 2009

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

[bigwillq]

69. Good for Bernie.

[felix_numinous]

70. Both would be destabilizing

domestically and overseas, different style but same effect. Plus they both have a lot of enemies. I do not think either one is a safe bet for this country.