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Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:25 AM

Why Berniacs Won't Quit

The Democratic Convention is July 25th-28th. Nobody will be the Democratic nominee until delegates cast their vote and an announcement is made about the results of the vote.

Them's the rules. That's how our Democratic primary system works.

Chris Matthews can call the primary for Hillary on June 7th, but Chris Matthews opinion is not recognized by the Democratic party. Obama, Harry Reid, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden can call the primary for Hillary on June 7th, but Hillary will still not be the Democratic nominee.

Them's the rules.

60 replies, 3434 views

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Arrow 60 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why Berniacs Won't Quit (Original post)
Meteor Man Jun 2016 OP
CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #1
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #7
tonyt53 Jun 2016 #26
onenote Jun 2016 #2
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #4
brooklynite Jun 2016 #9
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #10
brooklynite Jun 2016 #20
tarheelsunc Jun 2016 #59
qdouble Jun 2016 #3
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #5
qdouble Jun 2016 #6
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #11
qdouble Jun 2016 #12
grasswire Jun 2016 #13
qdouble Jun 2016 #15
libdem4life Jun 2016 #16
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #49
grasswire Jun 2016 #54
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #60
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #18
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #50
brooklynite Jun 2016 #21
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #25
Trenzalore Jun 2016 #36
Lord Magus Jun 2016 #46
onenote Jun 2016 #23
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #28
onenote Jun 2016 #29
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #31
onenote Jun 2016 #32
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #33
Trenzalore Jun 2016 #37
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #39
Trenzalore Jun 2016 #40
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #41
onenote Jun 2016 #42
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #44
onenote Jun 2016 #45
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #47
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #48
onenote Jun 2016 #17
Optimism Jun 2016 #24
tonyt53 Jun 2016 #27
Waiting For Everyman Jun 2016 #35
2cannan Jun 2016 #38
onenote Jun 2016 #30
Lil Missy Jun 2016 #8
bvf Jun 2016 #19
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #14
Octafish Jun 2016 #22
DrDan Jun 2016 #34
BillZBubb Jun 2016 #52
DrDan Jun 2016 #53
beachbumbob Jun 2016 #43
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #57
cantbeserious Jun 2016 #51
grasswire Jun 2016 #55
beachbumbob Jun 2016 #56
Meteor Man Jun 2016 #58

Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:27 AM

1. Thems the rules.... says the side wanting them to be changed in the middle of the campaign.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:43 AM

7. If changing the rules is within the rules, I see no problem with it.

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:47 PM

26. But they aren't

 

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:29 AM

2. Good. So Sanders supporters will stop citing polls, right?

After all, no one gets elected until the voters vote.

Them's the rules.

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Response to onenote (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:36 AM

4. Not exactly

Citing polls isn't very persuasive around here, however there are no rules against citing polls.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:43 AM

9. Just as there are no rules against stating who you presume to be the nominee.

If you HONESTLY feel that Bernie will end up as the nominee, feel free to join in.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:51 AM

10. Yep.

I honestly believe Bernie will win California and most of the remaining states. Delegates will realize Hillary is in a tail spin. Bernie will be chosen to lead the party to the White House.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:21 PM

20. Bookmarked for future enjoyment.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:20 PM

59. I can't tell if Meteor Man is delusional or just a troll.

Probably both, given the way BSers as a whole have gone off the deep end.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:35 AM

3. Super delegates will declare who they are voting for way before the convention...

No amount of flailing is going to change their votes.

"You guys are all corrupt, corporate shills.... vote for me even though I lost the popular vote and have less pledged delegates!" ... let's see how that will play out.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:37 AM

5. Declaring a vote

is not a vote. Nope. Try again.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:41 AM

6. Everyone understands that the official delegate vote is at the convention....

sane people also understand that the presumptive nominee will be clear way before that. You haven't made one convincing argument as to why anyone should expect that the majority of super delegates will vote differently from who they are declaring they will vote for.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:52 AM

11. Bernie wins nearly every remaining primary

The delegates realize Hillary is in a tail spin and turn to Bernie to rescue the party from certain disaster.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:56 AM

12. You're still not saying why would they wait until the convention to suddenly declare that they will

vote for Bernie? If they want to switch to Bernie, they can announce it any day. Why do you believe that they will all magically hold back on stating that they plan to switch until the convention?

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Response to qdouble (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:06 PM

13. because Bernie's momentum will be their stated reason..

..and that won't be as explicitly evident until he wins CA

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Response to grasswire (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:12 PM

15. If he were to win California, they can declare that they will vote for Bernie right then and there..

Super delegates can state who they are voting for right then and there... they don't need to wait until the convention.

The problem is that you guys are trying to make it seems as if SD keep who they intend to vote for a secret or that they are fickle, when there is nothing to show that.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:13 PM

16. and without his newly acquired, formerly dropped out,

 

disgusted or first time voters...they can't win. I'm sure most of the long-term Dems will hold their nose...or not...but even polls can't make that count.

There is a LONG TIME in political time with a time-bomb at the FBI ticking...until even the GE.

I really came to like and respect Obama. But he's, yet again, forced into the Clinton Whirlwind.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:00 PM

49. There is no momentum at the end of a primary

She will be the nominee before California comes in...may even tonight in Peurto Rico goes well and he is not viable. It is over ...California doesn't even matter. Time to turn towards the General. Bernie only looks foolish now.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:10 PM

54. ridiculous nt

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Response to grasswire (Reply #54)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 09:26 AM

60. True

By the time California comes in, she will have been declared the presumptive nominee. So while a loss in California would be embarrassing in a way...it won't change the outcome. And of course, Obama lost the last primaries as well including Ohio and PA. There is no momentum...no super delegate will flip. In fact, CNN is reporting a growing number of super are ready to commit to Hillary... but she asked them to wait until Tuesday...wants to in Jersey first. She would already be the presumptive nominee had they moved yesterday.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:17 PM

18. Because they are not stupid

Magic has nothing to do with it. Now if Bernie pulls off a complete sweep (not likely) there could be a deluge of early announcements.

Since my crystal ball is in the shop for repairs, I am relying on my Magic 8 Ball to predict the future. I can say with complete confidence that the most persuasive answer to how the convention ends is "Wait and see."

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:02 PM

50. The convention only

makes the presumptive nominee the nominee ...without the word presumptive...no one will switch to Bernie...I am sure the Democrats despise him...I know I do... I can only imagine how the supers feel after he attacked them non-stop.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:22 PM

21. Nearly every remaining Primary...NJ? NM? PR? DC?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:43 PM

25. Nobody said it would be easy

Sanders has defied the polls before, winning in Michigan and Indiana despite polls showing Clinton leading comfortably. However, the larger upset of the two, Michigan, was a 1.5-point victory over Clinton’s 21.4-point polling lead. This 22.9-point victory against the spread is the largest win against the polling spread in Presidential primary history, but Sanders would need to nearly double it to get to a 67-33 win from his 9.7-point polling deficit in California, with New Jersey an even wider 17-point gap.


http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/bernie-sanders-nomination-chances-odds-polls-california-new-jersey-delegates-unpledged-pledged-superdelegates/

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:35 PM

36. A 1.5 victory doesn't do him any good

In order to make an argument to overturn the will of the people of the states that voted previously it would need to be massive and significantly cut into her lead to bring it down to double digits.

You need 60+% to have a coherent argument.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:38 PM

46. It's not just "not easy", it's not possible. -nt-

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:25 PM

23. You apparently don't understand who the supers are and why they were created

The supers are made up of two groups, primarily. Current Democratic elected officials (Governors, Senators, Congressmen). The second, and larger group is made up of Democratic Party officials and insiders.

In other words, the vast majority of the supers are precisely the folks -- the Democratic Establishment -- that Bernie and his supporters spend so much time and effort railing against. You run as an outsider, don't expect support from the insiders -- not as long as Clinton remains in the race.

Plus, the idea that the supers role is to prevent the party from electing some one who is not electable tells only part of the story. The underlying purpose is to give the Democratic Party establishment a modicum of control over the end result of the process -- in other words, something short of a return to closed door, smoke-filled rooms, but a check on a free-for-all that doesn't let the party elders have a significant say.

Finally, of course, there are two other problems. First, even if the supers see Bernie winning California, that isn't going to convince them she is not electable. California is going Democratic in GE no matter what. Second, by nearly every remaining primary, I assume you are leaving yourself an out for when Clinton wins New Jersey and Puerto Rico and DC, leaving Bernie with a win in California and in North and South Dakota. I guarantee that the supers are going to be more impressed by Clinton's win in NJ than with losses in the Dakotas.

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Response to onenote (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:50 PM

28. Thanks for your guarantee

Can you also guarantee weather predictions?

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:51 PM

29. i can guarantee that when its raining outside its raining

You don't seem to have your eyes open so you can't tell what actually is happening.

And, by the way, if you have anything substantive to say in response to my post, please do.

Not that I think you can or will even try. You prefer your fantasy to reality.

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Response to onenote (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:13 PM

31. Non resposive comments

merit non responsive replies.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #31)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:14 PM

32. My original post was anything but non-responsive. You're just hiding from it.

Make your rebuttal case about who the superd's are and why they were created.

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Response to onenote (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:17 PM

33. What you been smoking?

You haven't made anything remotely resembling a serious comment.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:37 PM

37. The first comment negated your entire premise

Hence your hiding from it.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:04 PM

39. Invalid premise

negates nothing, hence you lose.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:10 PM

40. The Super Delegates being party insiders

Are going to suddenly over turn an election based on the voting of the last 3 states in a 50 state primary contest?

They are party insiders. If anything unfortunate would happen to Hillary, Biden will be nominated. That is their purpose.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #40)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:28 PM

41. Biden. Yeah right.

Like I said, no valid premise. Pure speculation based on biased assumptions.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:30 PM

42. Actually based on facts.

Last edited Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Here's a list of super delegates. You can see who they are. You can see that the vast majority are Democratic party insiders.

I would say that the premise that the Democratic insiders Sanders is attacking aren't going to rush to his support is indeed a valid premise. And that the belief that these insiders, who endorsed Clinton and have stayed with her this far aren't going to switch to Bernie even if he wins California if she captures a majority of pledged delegates.

But keep on believing whatever you want. Just don't act shocked when reality smacks you in the face.

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Response to onenote (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:45 PM

44. Missing a few branches on your logic tree

Astonishing actually. The foundation of your so called premise is "because I say so."

Your opinion is what is known as "jumping to a conclusion". Calling an inferential leap a premise does not add any credibility to your opinion.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:09 PM

45. You, like the Emperor have no clothes.

Unlike the Emperor, you know it and don't mind letting everyone else know you know it.

Enjoy the next couple of weeks.
Enjoy it when Elizabeth Warren, Barrack Obama and Joe Biden, all super delegates, announce that they are recognizing Clinton as the nominee and supporting her. Enjoy it when Sanders doesn't get delegates to switch to him, but instead watches some of his delegate switch to Clinton.

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Response to onenote (Reply #45)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:50 PM

47. I'm The New Emperor!

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

About time the greatness known as Meteor Man was recognized!

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:57 PM

48. What how many remaining primaries are there?

And he won't win them all...either.

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Response to Meteor Man (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:15 PM

17. Responding to a poll isn't a vote.

But apparently you disagree.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:28 PM

24. The FEDERAL BUREAU of INVESTIGATION.

Superdelegates can SAY that they plan to vote for Clinton at the convention. BUT she is under criminal investigation. The FBI report will be highly negative, without doubt. If it's released before the final convention vote, and is as troubling as all suspect, the Superdelegates will have EVERY reason to switch and vote for SANDERS. Their whole reason for being is to make sure the Democrats win in November. Dereliction of duty if they don't.

So it looks like it's simply an FBI waiting game at this point. Very risky game the establishment Dems are playing with the future of the country.

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Response to Optimism (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:49 PM

27. No, she is NOT under criminal investigation, so don't keep repeating it.

 

You are waiting for something that is not going to happen.

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:31 PM

35. So the FBI is investigating her emails because they're investigating someone else?

Is that what you're trying to sell?

The FBI doesn't screw around for a year because nothing is there. And yes, laws were broken. People with a smidgen of objectivity realize this.

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:38 PM

38. Guess you missed this?

FBI formally confirms its investigation of Hillary Clinton’s email server
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fbi-formally-confirms-its-investigation-hillary-clintons-email-server

In a letter disclosed Monday in a federal court filing, the FBI confirms one of the world’s worst-kept secrets: It is looking into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.

Why say this at all, since it was widely known to be true? Because in August in response to a judge’s direction, the State Department asked the FBI for information about what it was up to. Sorry, the FBI said at the time, we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any investigation.

Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBI’s general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI “has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clinton’s use of a private email server.”

Baker says the FBI has not, however, “publicly acknowledged the specific focus, scope or potential targets of any such proceedings.”

He ends the one-paragraph letter by saying that the FBI cannot say more “without adversely affecting on-going law enforcement efforts.”

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Response to Optimism (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:53 PM

30. When did this investigation begin?

Have any supers endorsed her after it began? If so, what is going to cause them to change their endorsements as long as she is still in the race.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:43 AM

8. Sounds a lot more like a sore loser. n/t

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:20 PM

19. ... she whined. n/t

 

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:07 PM

14. Dead Enders gonna dead end. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:22 PM

22. As opposed to shills gonna shill.

Prefer to stand up with those who believe in Democratic Action as opposed to those who talk about it, but have no clue, no offense intended.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:26 PM

34. "presumptive nominee" is enough for a candidate to move to GE posture

and that will happen Tuesday.

It's over, and has been for quite some time.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #34)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:08 PM

52. Forturnately, presumptive nominee means NOTHING. The convention decides the real nominee.

Those are the rules. You know the ones Hillary fanatics have been screaming at Bernie for complaining about? Now who's whining about the rules?

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #52)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:09 PM

53. sorry - it's over

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:32 PM

43. Saw the same in 2008 ...the difference this time...sanders lacks class

 

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:15 PM

57. The difference this time

Bernie has momentum. Bernie easily beats Trump. Bernie is not being investigated by the FBI.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:03 PM

51. When We Stand Together No Citizen Need Settle For The Lessor Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:11 PM

55. YES!

When the people will stand together, there is nothing we can't accomplish.

Thank you, Bernie, for reminding millions and millions in America and around the world of this truth.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:12 PM

56. She won't be official until the first ballot

 

Be she will be the presumptive nominee which is pretty much the same thing..sanders intimidation as well as threats of violence outside our convention will just insure Hillary is our nominee..better good use to it

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:17 PM

58. Pretty much the same thing

is not the same thing. See how that works? The adjectival modifier trumps your own argument.

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