Here's what I believe: Bernie Sanders will lead the way.

[MineralMan]

After June 14, once all the votes are counted and all the pledged delegates are allocated in every state and territory, he will recognize what the numbers say. He will listen to the super delegates when they restate their intentions to vote for Hillary Clinton at the convention. Additional super delegates will declare their intentions to vote for Hillary, as well.

Then, Bernie Sanders will politely concede that he will not be the nominee and pledge to help defeat Donald Trump in November. He'll ask his supporters to join him, even as they work toward their goals in down-ballot and future elections. He will ask them not to disrupt the convention and to unite in the goal of defeating Donald Trump by electing the Democratic nominee for President.

Bernie will do as he has always done, and will lead the way toward the next step in the process. He is an honorable man, a long-time believer in democratic principles and a Senator with a strong voice in future legislation. It won't be in his interest to obstruct the inevitable once the primaries are over. He will become an even stronger voice by leading the way to victory in November.

When he does make the right decision, he'll get a large ovation here and across the country. Then, we can begin the difficult job of winning the November election and bringing even more Democrats into Congress. We will come together, because the alternative is unthinkable.

That's what I believe will happen. That's what I expect to happen. That's what I hope will happen. That's my opinion.

[pinebox]

1. He may but this isn't about Bernie

It's about progressive ideals and doing the right thing. It's a movement. Millions of Bernie supporters will never ever vote or support Hillary. It is what it is.

Hillary doesn't represent many liberals.

[Andy823]

6. Keep spewing your BS

But the facts to jive with your posts. Yes some who are not, nor have ever been, Democrats won't vote for her. Others who are just plain trouble makers and right wing trolls won't vote for her, and yes some very gullible Democrats won't vote for her, but not "millions" as you claim. Pushing these right wing talking points is only helping Trump, but then again you already know that, right?

[pinebox]

12. My BS? Someone needs a hug

Are you mad? Why?
Any kind of criticism from your camp is a RW smear,even when it's fact. Sorry but millions of Bernie supporters aren't voting for Trump and that doesn't help Trump because they won't be voting for him either.

Pro tip--
0+0 = 0.

Now where did I spew a RW talking point? Tell me. We all know that a huge margin of Bernie supporters won't support Hillary. Millions? Yes, millions. 25% and the numbers are only rising. http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/sanders-supporters-not-vote-clinton-221642

[rock]

50. Sorry pinebox

And823 hits it right on the head.

[PatrickforO]

28. But, if the party that used to represent me with things that genuinely make my life better,

and instead has moved to the right and allowed me and millions of others to become marginalized in favor of 'free trade,' forever war, deregulation, privatization and forcing wages down, then it is no longer my party.

I'd say this is the last hurrah for the party - its last chance to develop a conscience and actually begin to represent its constituents.

Because I'll tell you, if a big enough bone isn't thrown to the 'angry masses' then the Democratic party will go the way of the Whigs. The party of the Clintons is NOT my Democratic party. My party is the party of FDR, Kennedy, LBJ (sans Vietnam), and Bernie. And that is how I'm gonna vote, and how I'm going to act in the local political arena.

[libdem4life]

30. Old, moldy meme. TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrump.

RightwingtrollsRightwingtroolsRightwingtrolls.

Worn out.

[rock]

51. Worn out

With great reason. Think about it. It's all the GOP and BSers know.

[libdem4life]

53. I'm sorry, I don't see Bernie folks emoting said memes.

Was it me you were responding to? This is a Democratic Board. I see the Republican/Trump comparison. But the other one...well if I have to tell you, you wouldn't understand.

[rock]

55. Say

That was going to be my reply to you. You wouldn't understand.

[libdem4life]

56. So...we agree !!!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. How are you winning the public over to your side? Angry mobs threatening others is not going to do

it.

[pinebox]

18. How are you winning over people

when your candidate can't even offer a living wage, health care and free EDU?
Angry mobs? Where are these so called "angry mobs"? Are people upset? Yes they are. Very. DO they have a right to be? Damn right they do. Millenials are the first generation to make less than their parents and you want them to support a candidate who helps make that a reality? Nawww, not happening.

People are sick and tired of corruption and dishonesty in politics.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

26. They had better hurry up if they want to work on the down ticket. Lots of money that could have

been going to them but instead all the oxygen is being sucked out of the room by this fight between Bernie and Hillary. And then there's Trump also sucking the oxygen out of the room.

[MineralMan]

16. And that's what you believe.

My post was what I believe. In the end, each voter will decide for him or herself. We will see what happens, I'm certain.

I wouldn't presume to declare what millions of people will do. If you're comfortable doing that, that's your choice.

[pinebox]

20. It isn't happening

No offense but you're looking through the glass as a Hillary supporters with this. Sure some will support Hillary because they are part of the "Vote Blue No Matter Who" crowd but an absolute ton never will.

I'm comfortable declaring that because I know what the #BernieOrBust movement is about and how huge it is.

[MineralMan]

27. OK. We'll see, won't we?

[pinebox]

46. Indeed :)

[grasswire]

60. How can Hillary supporters have any informed comment on what's ahead...

...when they refuse to let their eyes fall on ANY critical comments regarding her chances or expectations of chances? They have allowed themselves only tunnel vision, and are, frankly, very ill informed due to their own willing blindness to what the rest of America sees ahead. I monitored freerepublic during the Bush elections. Same exact phenomenon.

[pinebox]

62. I have no answer honestly.

[Live and Learn]

49. +10,000 nt

[MFM008]

52. I am a progressive

I don't like Mr Sanders or his inability to play by the rules.
If you play football and break the rules you cost your entire team.
If you don't support Sanders, it doesn't mean your not a progressive or a democrat.
Soon he will be as relevant as Paul Tsongas or others who have run before.

[trudyco]

59. And she did quid pro quo with SOS/Clinton Foundation which included warmongering.

I think Bernie will say the voters should make up their own mind. He knows it is not about him. He's just a face and a voice for us. But I'm still hoping for the Indictment Fairy. It's better now than after the GE.

[brooklynite]

63. ...says the person with 4 Bernie avatars in his message...

[qdouble]

2. It's what he should do for the good of the party, but I'm a bit doubtful that Bernie cares about the

party... so I wouldn't be surprised if he's very slow to endorse. He'll do it eventually, but he seems like he wants to out kicking and screaming.

[MineralMan]

21. He won't do it for the party. He only joined that recently.

He will do it because it is the best thing to do for the country and the people who live in it. He knows the outcome of both options. He will do the right thing, because he truly cares about how this country does in the future. I hold a high opinion of Bernie Sanders. I believe he will act honorably and in the best interest of our nation.

[qdouble]

29. Well it's not that I'm fully worried that he won't get behind Clinton...

it's more so that I'm worried he's going to drag his feet. The longer he takes to come around the worse it's going to be for bringing unity. He should get behind her the day after the last election the latest.

[MohRokTah]

3. I used to believe that was how it will go.

I no longer trust the man to do the right thing any longer.

I no longer have any respect for the man.

I can only hope he is primaried in 2018.

[dinkytron]

4. I believe you nailed it.

[MineralMan]

5. Thanks. I hope I'm right.

[Andy823]

7. I think we all hope you are right.

All the real Democrats, Liberals, and progressives that is.

[think]

9. Whatever happens America will still be the only 1 of the 25 wealthiest countries w/out universal

healthcare:

"Of the 25 wealthiest nations, we're the only one that doesn't provide basic health coverage."
— Dan Gecker on Tuesday, August 18th, 2015 in a candidates' forum.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/sep/01/dan-gecker/dan-gecker-says-us-only-wealth-nation-without-univ/

The GOP may want to remain neanderthals but Democrats are intelligent enough to know that this is an international disgrace for our nation. Shame on Hillary is she doesn't tell the people and fight to get America to join the rest of the world on this important issue.

[MineralMan]

36. I'm in no way a single-issue voter.

I know what Presidents can and cannot do. I've been pushing for better participation in legislative races for over 50 years, and trying to get people to turn out in mid-term elections in numbers that rival presidential years. Why? Because the U.S. President has deliberately limited powers. Sometimes that prevents progress, but sometimes it protects the progress that has been made in better times.

I've been a single-payer, tax-supported healthcare advocate since about forever, and long before it was a widespread issue. No President can implement that on his or her own. It cannot be done, under the Constitution. We will not get single-payer until we resolve to elect enough members of Congress and Senators who will create the enabling legislation. So far, we have not done that.

By the same token, there are many other things that are desirable and needed that require the same kind of legislation. Presidents can ask for things, but cannot implement them without congressional support. We may take back the Senate in 2016, and we might gain some seats in the House, but we will not achieve the majorities the President will need to make those goals a reality. We simply will not do that this year.

We can, however, set progress back in a significant way. We may end up with a much more conservative SCOTUS, the third and equal branch of government. We may lose control off all three branches of government this year. A little thought will make clear the results of such a thing over a four-year term with a blatant, biased moron in the White House.

So, there it is. You will do as you will do. If you have already decided, then I'm not even directing my posts at you. I'm remaining hopeful that we will not defeat ourselves in a fit of pique. I'm counting on people, including Bernie Sanders, to do the right thing in 2016. I hope you'll join me, but I'll continue either way.

[think]

39. Nor am I a single issue voter. But Hillary's unwillingness to fight for America to join the rest of

the world on this important issue is quite telling of where she stands.

She stands with the mega corporations and their profits.

And I hope her supporters will push her to support the people not the corporations that lined her pockets.

[MineralMan]

42. Here's the thing: If Congress sends her a single-payer healthcare bill,

she'll sign it in a flash. So, the answer lies in electing legislators who will do that. We won't get there in 2016. We might, though, in 2018, 2020 or 2022. Right now, there is not a path to single-payer, and no President can force it to become a reality. It's up to us to send a Congress to Washington that will send the bill up for the President's signature.

President's choose their battles, and they do it based on reality. Obama didn't have a Congress that would have enacted single-payer. So, we got ACA, instead. Did it do any good? Yes, indeed, it did. Uninsurable Americans are now insured. Many people saw their premiums reduced, especially the self-employed. My wife's premium is half what it was before ACA, even with increases. Hillary Clinton wouldn't be able to get single-payer through Congress, either, unless the makeup Congress changes a good deal. She knows that, and will pick other battles in her first term.

There are no fast, easy solutions. In this country, there never will be. It's a long hard haul to get every bit of progress we have achieved, and it will be an equally long, hard haul to get more. Presidents' powers are limited. Bernie Sanders would have no more success with major progressive goals than Clinton. We won't elect a progressive Congress in 2016. We'll make some small gains in the Senate that will help with SCOTUS nominations, etc. But we're not getting single-payer out of this coming Congress.

We need to look far down the road if we're going to get the changes we need. We're going to have to be activists in mid-term elections, too. We do a poor job of that. We can do a better job and speed up the process. I think we should.

In 2016, we need to make sure we don't lose the White House, though. If we do, we may well never get it back. Consider that as you talk to people about November. It's a real possibility.

[think]

44. Bernie is leading on the issue. Hillars is taking money from those fighting AGAINST single payer

With Hillary lining her pockets with that money she'll never speak out.

Obama never even let single payer be discussed. He chose to let the insurance companies write the ACA instead.

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead

Corporate Crime Reporter
March 3, 2009

~Snip~

Last week, Conyers attended a Congressional Black Caucus meeting with President Obama at the White House.

During the meeting, Congressman Conyers, sponsor of the single payer bill in the House (HR 676), asked President Obama for an invite to the President’s Marchy 5 health care summit at the White House.

Conyers said he would bring along with him two doctors — Dr. Marcia Angell and Dr. Quentin Young — to represent the majority of physicians in the United States who favor single payer.

Obama would have none of it.

This week, by e-mail, Conyers heard back from the White House — no invite.

~Snip~

Now, what does the health insurance industry make of the Sebelius/DeParle team?

Here is Karen Ignagni, president of the lead health insurance lobbying group, America’s Health Insurance Plans:

“Today the President is putting in place a team that is ready on day one to provide the leadership necessary to achieve health care reform. Governor Sebelius is the right person to move the President’s health care agenda forward. She is a proven leader with extensive knowledge of health care issues and a long history of working effectively across the political aisle. As a former CMS administrator, Nancy-Ann DeParle brings considerable experience and a strong track record working on all of the health care issues facing the nation.”

Karen sounds really upset, right?


Read more:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_paye.php

Reality is changed when leaders get out in front of an issue and explain it. You act like presidents aren't suppose to take the lead. Obama did take the lead on this issue but he only went so far because he too owed the insurance lobby.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2010/01/12/obama-received-20-million-healthcare-industry-2008-campaign

And now you've already given up and put universal healthcare on the back burner for another 4-8 years. America is WOEFULLY behind on this issue and Democrats shouldn't sit on their hands. It's time for the leaders at the very top of the party to push for universal healthcare.

[Kelvin Mace]

10. He very well may. But it will not get me to vote for HRC

And Obama's overt support for the odious DWS is the final chapter for the Democratic Party. Once you endorse the payday loan industry you have made your allegiance to money quite plain. And please don't insult my intelligence by saying that DWS changed her mind. It will change back when the election is over.

[MineralMan]

14. That's your choice, of course.

I'm not telling anyone what to do or how to vote. I'm expressing my hopes here.

[Kelvin Mace]

17. No matter what happens, Trump or HRC

It ends badly for the world. It is just st a matter of how fast.

[MineralMan]

32. Pessimism is closely akin to defeatism,

in my opinion. I'm very sorry you feel that way.

[Kelvin Mace]

47. And pragmatism can be seen

As selling out. So, it depends on how you look at it.

[MineralMan]

48. Pragmatism is about getting stuff done.

It's about accomplishing things. The ideal would be ideal, but it's often impossible. Pragmatism works to get what is possible done and done now. It is not a negative word. It is how things happen. I am a pragmatist.

I would love to drive a Ferrari. I love automobiles. That's my ideal. I drive a Kia Soul, instead. That's pragmatism. But I drive wherever I need to go, instead of bemoaning my lack of an Italian Super Car.

I'm a pragmatist. I have always been a pragmatist. It's been a fascinating, interesting life. I highly recommend it.

[Kelvin Mace]

61. The philosophy of pragmatism is pretty amoral

It means doing what works no matter what the truth is. Through pragmatism, all things are possible, no matter how odious. Certainly this is how you wind up with people like David Brock being "heroes" while doing despicable things. Brock was a hero to Republicans when he smeared Anita Hill, and became quite wealthy telling lies. Now he is a hero to Democrats for smearing Sanders, and is also becoming quite wealthy telling lies.

Now, I have no problem with people who choose the easy path. After all, it's a hard world. But pragmatism while quite easy, is hardly noble or virtuous.

I have had people tell me that I shouldn't take their decisions which hurt people "personally". It wasn't "personal", it was just "business". Sadly, I am handicapped by only one set of ethics, instead of a personal set, a business set and a political set.

[Vattel]

65. excellent post

[CrowCityDem]

11. That's what should happen. I'm not sure why he's had such a tough time admitting it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

15. I had so many hopes for what Bernie was going to do. He had a good message but it got lost.

[PatrickforO]

19. This whole thing has been about rank and file working class Democrats standing up and saying,

"Enough is enough."

Once we were the party of the New Deal, the party that built the biggest, most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, the party whose middle class made this the most prosperous country in the world. The party that warred on poverty, created Social Security, Medicare, Workers Comp and supported the right of workers to collectively bargain.

THAT is my Democratic party.

The party of the Clintons and Debbie Wasserman Schultz has betrayed the American working class with 'free trade,' deregulation, privatization and has allowed safety nets to be loosened so millions of Americans now live in a capitalist hell of grinding, unrelenting, nickel and dime poverty. It is the party that did not stand up against the forever war, the party that helped usher in the NSA, the party that acquiesced to the NSA and war powers. It is the party that has done nothing for its traditional constituency since the early 1990s.

See, when we have an independent who runs as a Democrat and turns out to be MORE of a Democrat than the Democrats, then we need to rethink our direction as a party.

For me, and I suppose millions of others, Bernie IS the Democratic Party. He has elevated the discussion so much, it even made Obama reverse his own position on Social Security and say we need to expand it. Clinton has been campaigning WAY more left than she would have had Bernie not been in the race. Bernie even has five of fifteen people on the platform committee, BUT the establishment wing of the Dem party refused the union member he forwarded.

What???

Really???

So Bernie can have five slots on the platform committee, but the party won't allow a union person on there???

No, Mineral - you're a nice guy and a wise one, but this party is split because its leaders made the mistake for years of ignoring their core constituency, and now those core constituents have stood up and demanded change. If the change isn't enough, the party will still be split.

I don't think this will particularly cheer you up, but I suspect there are some hard core establishment neolib Dems who would rather see Trump win than do anything that Sanders wants. And they have all the money behind them.

[MineralMan]

34. Here's the thing, though:

There is an election in November that will determine a good deal of what will happen for the next four years. Much of that will affect those "rank and file working people" you mention. It will also affect many others, some of whom are no longer or have never made it into that group of working people. The very young, the very old, the less able, and many others. I'm now in that very old group, although I continue to work, since I have no choice. I see the very young, the less able, and the disadvantaged around me every day, as well.

The results of the 2016 election will affect everyone, including those who have no vote at all and those who are dependent on what is decided for their future. Some will be "working people" in the future. Others cannot be part of that class at all, or are held back from full participation by one or another factor.

The election matters. It matters to everyone. So, I don't just think about outcomes from a single perspective. I think about outcomes on a very broad perspective. I do not expect ideal outcomes. I've learned not to do that in my 70 years. I work toward better outcomes whenever there is a choice, as there will be in November.

I know which outcome will be better, so I will work to elect the Democratic nominee. I hope enough people recognize the better choice and do the same. I will work toward that. So will Bernie Sanders. He knows that outcomes matter, too. He's been part of setting those outcomes throughout his political career, in good times and bad. He knows.

[PatrickforO]

37. Well, clearly.

I have said before that I believe that President Obama, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren will be very, very powerful voices in the upcoming general election.

While I generally don't believe in name-calling, any sane person knows we cannot elect an idiot like Trump to the most powerful position in the world. That's just stupid.

So I hear you, and I'm with you. I suspect many like me will hold their noses and vote for Clinton. Clinton is lucky, in fact, that her opponent will be Trump. Very lucky. Because if it was Romney or Ryan, she would lose for sure. Yes, Romney and Ryan are odious, but they are sane. Trump is not.

But you know, I fear the emperor has no clothes here, as she will bear the heavy weight of numerous scandals throughout the election, and afterward will have to fight off a certain impeachment attempt. In my opinion, Clinton is a pretty weak candidate, and if Bernie were 20 years younger, he'd have sewed up the nomination long since.

So here's the deal: Millions like me are sick of Third Way policies. We think neoliberal capitalism sucks and has ruined the country. We think the forever war and the giant domestic spying apparatus needs to end or be seriously reined in ASAP. We think corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes, and we think that...well, basically Bernie's platform.

The point is, the current 'establishment' Democratic party has done NOTHING to make our lives better in ANY way. All this Third Way group has really done is helped with some social liberalism. But it has presided over the economic dismantling of the working class. Did they think we wouldn't notice? We are angry.

This means that if Clinton gets in office, she and those empty-suit pretenses that call themselves Democrats sitting and doing very little in Congress had BETTER get off their butts and begin implementing policies that actually make my life, and the lives of my family, including my grandchildren better. Because if they do not, they will lose the power of the people.

Remember that South Park episode back in 08? Where the little kid gets kicked out of his house and town because he won't vote for a new school mascot? His reasoning is that he refuses to vote when the only choices are a shit sandwich or a giant douche. Satire aside, the Democratic base has awakened. They will no longer vote for a 'Democrat in name only' simply because they suck less than the Republican candidate. I guess, with all due respect to the current field, many of us are beginning to feel like we're sick of being taken for granted.

So, if you are a 'high up' in the Dem party, Mineral, please heed my words. If the party wants to continue, they need to throw the working class some SERIOUS and beneficial bones.

[MineralMan]

40. I'm just a precinct chair in Minnesota and a sometimes delegate

to district conventions. I do what I can, but my influence is small. I'm no longer trying to increase that internal influence. In fact, I will probably stop even my precinct chair duties following this election. I'll be 71 years old next month.

I didn't even get a chance to vote in my precinct caucus on March 1. I was so busy chairing that caucus and making sure that everyone had a ballot and that the ballots were fairly counted that I completely forgot to cast my own vote. Bernie won our caucus, 37 to 21. My goal was a caucus meeting that gave everyone a fair opportunity to vote. I did that. Everyone voted, including those people who were in the wrong room, who I helped to find their own precinct location. We ran out of printed ballots, so I used the blank paper ones I brought in anticipation of that, so people could write in their candidate's name and have their vote counted.

I want the people to decide who wins. To do that, they have to participate and use their best wisdom to vote. That's always my goal.

[PatrickforO]

41. You're a good guy. Millions like you at the grass roots have been betrayed by the bigwigs.

Sorry you didn't get to vote in your own caucus, but you made sure everyone got a fair shake. There has been some cheating in other places, I suspect.

I wish you the best in your upcoming 'retirement' from so much political involvement. I'm in my late 50s, so I've got a ways to go.

There is one thing for sure. The working class American has it much worse now than they did back when we were kids, and politically I'm going to do everything I can over the next few years to help working stiffs have better lives. As you have.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. Yeah, i think so too. Much like HRC in 2008.

[MineralMan]

24. Thanks. We'll find out soon.

This primary period is winding down fast. The changeover to the General Election campaign is almost upon us. Many things will change when that happens.

[PowerToThePeople]

23. I agree that is probably what Bernie will do.

[MineralMan]

25. Thank you. I know we disagree on many things,

but thanks for your trust in Bernie Sanders.

[riversedge]

31. It is a lovely thought.

[MineralMan]

33. Well, it's a positive thought, at least.

We could use more of those right now, I believe.

I really cannot allow myself to fall into negativism. It's a sure way to become unproductive. So, I will always try to project the best possible conclusion until it is clear it can't be reached. Then, I'll try to find a new way to stay positive.

I have limited influence on what happens beyond my personal control. There will be an election in November. That's a certainty. That election will determine many things that will occur after it. I maintain hope that a majority of people will make the better choice. That's about all I can do, looking forward.

[MineralMan]

35. And yes, I did rec my own thread.

It's what I believe.

[SheenaR]

38. I believe in Bernie Sanders

I don't believe in the hype that he is an ego driven maniac. I believe he wants more for us all.

If he loses and sits down with Sec. Clinton and comes out of that meeting and says that he is confident that a progressive agenda is what will be executed, I will believe him. And I will listen when he says to vote for the Secretary.

If he doesn't, I still will believe him and listen to whatever his method is for defeating Trump.

[Fumesucker]

43. I'm not as good a person as Sanders

Because in his shoes while I was doing the public stumping and pom pom waving for Hillary I'd be collecting every iota of evidence of the corruption swirling around and then release it after the election.

That's why he's Bernie Sanders and I'm just some fume sucking fuckhead on an obscure discussion site.

After Hillary objecting to any Republican war will bring an instant rejoinder of "Well Hillary voted for Bush's war and you voted for Hillary". I for one won't bother any more in that case, I guess you could say Mission Accomplished.

[Juicy_Bellows]

45. You're my favorite fume sucker here.

Hold on to your butts, he might just surprise the world.

[libdem4life]

54. Here's what I believe. There is a lot of time and a lot of events between

now and the November election. No one knows anything. We can just make educated guesses based on our education or opinions. And few will change anyone's mind. But it is challenging to share and discuss and disagree freely...while staying respectful.

[Orsino]

57. Yep. The movement was here before Bernie was a presidential candidate...

...and will continue to grow along with inequality. Progressives are getting marginalized this cycle, as they always have been, but it was a tougher sell in 2016 and will become more difficult in future elections. Sanders is leading, but he must not and will not be our only leader.

[davidlynch]

58. MineralMan you are spot on n/t

[Urchin]

64. If the stock market crashes

and we're all on breadlines--it could happen--then the voters might not want a president who took money from banksters nor a president who is one of the super rich who gamed the system which resulted in impoverishing everybody else. The voters might quickly come around to wanting a democratic socialist for president.