Has Bernie passed the point of no return?

[Sheepshank]

There is something to the timing in this Primary election. There is a point in time, when the candidate unlikely to win can bow out with grace, dignity and party unity.

I think we have passed that point.

I think Bernie's continued dissing the party, Hillary and continued attemps to portray his campaign as viable, while at the same time promoting that the Primary has been rigged at every turn, has now damaged his campaign.

How does he bow out gracefully at this point? I don't think he can.

For all those that say he will do the right thing, unite his constituency behind Hillary and throw his full support behind Hillary...I don't think he can do that anymore.

I would hope I'm wrong, but many of the more vocal Bernie supporters here have made it perfectly clear, we have passed the point of no return.

[JRLeft]

1. The party is corrupted by corporate money.

[Sheepshank]

4. Yeah...comments like this solidify my thoughts in the op

[Ned_Devine]

32. The party is corrupted by corporate money and it doesn't represent us

It used to be that it didn't represent anyone considered to be a liberal democrat. Apparently there's a faction that's totally at peace with it. Kind of like the people that get sucked into scientology.

[Lord Magus]

99. The popular vote and pledged delegates are not corporate money.

The majority of the party is voting for a different candidate than you. Do you conclude that the majority of the party is therefore illegitimate?

[Ned_Devine]

101. I believe there has been some funny business in certain states including mine, yes

[politicaljunkie41910]

61. Agreed. When asked Bernie and Weaver just keep moving the goalpost on what

it would take to secure the support of his base. At this point I'm not sure even Jesus Christ himself could do that. As the losing candidate, he says it's Hillary's responsibility to convince his supporters that she's 'worthy' of their vote. But each of his supporters has a different reason for hating her, most of which have been perpetrated by him, with a little of their own imagination that Hillary is responsible for everything that has gone wrong with the world for the past 100 years, including the Hindenburg disaster and the kidnapping of the Limburgh baby.

Bernie's scorched earth policy directed at Hillary and the DNC, leaves no room for compromise at this point. As the losing candidate, HE wants to decide: who's on the platform committee, what is in the platform, what policies Hillary will pursue in a Clinton Administration, what will be her priorities in the first 100 days, who her VP nomination will be, etc. He was against Superdelegates as undemocratic and now he wants the Superdelegates to vote for him based on "his momentum" even though Hillary has the majority of pledged delegates, but somehow HE doesn't see that as undemocratic . He and his supporters list of demands are as endless as the day is long. It will never stop.

His supporters have taken out 4 permits to demonstrate at the party convention in Pennsylvania according to whats been posted here on DU, in order to disrupt the convention. Their strategy now is, if Bernie can't run the Party, they want to destroy it. And even if that is not his agenda, it's the agenda of his followers. Bernie has lost control of his followers and I don't think he has any control over them if he wanted to, so I don't think Hillary should offer him anything based on his promise to throw his support behind her, because at this point I don't think he can sway any of his supporters to vote for her. I say Hillary is better off staying with her own agenda, and she has a better chance of picking up the demoralized Trump voters once he fully implodes which shouldn't be long now.

[Sheepshank]

74. Yup...you took the time to spell out much of the shit that is wrong with the BS campaign

And I can't find fault in any of it.

[MadDAsHell]

77. Interesting. You think Hillary is disliked not because of her own historical votes and stances...

...but because of stuff Bernie has said?

I wasn't aware she was so enormously popular, well-liked, and trusted before the Sanders campaign came along.

[WhiteTara]

82. She was considered one of the most admired

women in the world.

[Lord Magus]

106. And the thing that gets me about the "his momentum" argument is...what momentum?

I'm not seeing any. Though I've seen some Facebook posts trying to redefine "momentum" as getting big crowds at rallies.

[puffy socks]

154. Lmao!

"Hillary is responsible for everything that has gone wrong with the world for the past 100 years, including the Hindenburg disaster and the kidnapping of the Limburgh baby."

classic !

[BootinUp]

33. Here's a hard truth

Every organization can be corrupted. That includes organizations in the past the present and the future. Clintons proposals compare very favorably to Sanders when it comes to taking steps in the right direction.

When people point out that many of Sanders ideas are hard to get done, that is not something to ignore. Put simply, it is up to him to get support in government to enact his proposals.

One way is to show support for his ideas in the public. But when people start looking at the details, there are a lot of concerns. Details that the a lot of his supporters aren't looking hard at apparently.

When simple arguments for his programs are used by him or his supporters, it does very little to build support FOR HIS SPECIFIC proposals in government. That doesn't mean people don't agree that something needs to be done. Its the HOW that is the question.

[Raastan]

55. Well said

[JRLeft]

62. Hillary pays lip service, that is what corporate democrats do.

[BootinUp]

64. You don't have to feel the magic.

I mean thats what you are saying basically. But after the primary, if you actually give her a chance, listen to others that will endorse her, read more about her and not from slanted attack pieces whatever, you may change your mind.

[Orsino]

73. Can't solve a problem with the same old kind of candidate.

I would love, love, love to believe that Clinton has marshaled enough money that she can finally start to lead it around by the nose instead, but am not very optimistic.

I don't know whether she is strong enough finally to turn her back on the oligarchs, or even to check their power. I just know that we have to try. Whoever we nominate will need our help--let's face it, our demands--to get progressive change done. We cannot allow ourselves to believe that the election ends in November, or even this summer; we will have to lobby our candidates, our delegates, and our elected officials unceasingly if we want change.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

87. JFK said we were going to the moon

He didn't lay out the specifics. Under your line of reasoning the proper response should have been "No, we can't."

[treestar]

129. He knew he had the money, etc

As for the aspirational language, that only applied to the scientists who were going to figure out the details.

[asuhornets]

80. Do you shop at Walmart, Target, Sears? nt

[CrowCityDem]

2. I think he can, but it will take an effort he hasn't indicated he's willing to put in.

[Sheepshank]

7. Sounds like you have some faith he could try

I lack that same faith.

You are probably a much nicer person than I am

[CrowCityDem]

9. It would be in his best interest to do it, if he wants clout in the Senate.

[Sheepshank]

11. Bernie has made little effort to cultivate a support system with his peers.

I think this Primary process he has invoked is a continuation of that same "his way or the highway" mentality.

[Andy823]

16. Yes the "my way or the highway" mentality

Isn't a good one. Many of his fans here on DU have had that same mentality over the years about President Obama, the party, and anyone who has disagreed with there take on things. I think that's why so many here jumped on the Bernie bandwagon from day one. They felt that Bernie would be the same as them, and never compromise on things they considered to be of major importance, even if the majority of Americans felt the opposite. I too feel that Bernie has that mentality, and it would not work well as president. Nothing can be accomplished of nobody wants to compromise.

[ciaobaby]

31. oh give it a rest......

[Sheepshank]

50. Thanks for bumping my Op with so much confirmation of what is wrong with BS ers

[treestar]

132. Sums it up very well

and it is the same posters who never were satisfied with President Obama. Always demanding ideal purity and that "the right thing" - whatever they deem that to be - can't be gotten through Congress, scorched earth is the only way. Get single payer or nothing at all.

And always considering persuading Congress members, even Republicans, can be done by the "bully pulpit." LOL. Every POTUS should end up a mesmerizing mind-controller who can make Republicans vote for something like single payer.

And bernie wouldn't be that either.

[Meteor Man]

3. Bernie will not bow down

Bernie has been quite clear he will let every state vote and go to the convention to make sure the voice of his supporters is heard.

[Sheepshank]

5. IMHO Bernie's actions go well beyond providing every State the opportunity to vote

[Meteor Man]

17. Because every state has voted?

Very confusing, I know. Until every state has voted, there are still states that have not voted.

[bettyellen]

21. Except he has been quoted saying it doesn't end there....

[cui bono]

34. Of course it doesn't end there.

That's what conventions are for, to determine a candidate and a platform.

When almost half the party is for one candidate the party would have to be completely stupid to ignore what that candidate stands for since they would be alienating almost half of their party by doing so.

This is not about a two person race. This is about the policies and principles the party will stand for and fight for. Bernie's positions would bring the party back to its roots of progressive stances, away from the corporate stances that Bill Clinton ushered in with the DLC and that Hillary would continue if left up to her.

Also, this will not end after the convention either, no matter who the nominee is. The people have seen that we do not need corporate sponsorship as Bill Clinton and the DLC decided when they moved the party to the center. The people have seen that there is at least one politician who is still fighting for them and they have become energized. There is change coming because the people are waking up and have been given hope that is is possible, one way or another, and that is what will continue no matter what happens in the elections.

.

[bettyellen]

36. I wish he would acknowledge the two person part is over by Tuesdsay and forget the flipping delegate

Bullshit. That would be ridiculous. I get him trying to make an impact, just not by pretending it's not over on Tuesday.

[cui bono]

41. It won't be over on Tuesday. You know a certain amount of delegates have to be reached in order

to clinch the nomination, right? Neither candidate will have succeeded by Tuesday.

It will go to the convention because of the rules, not because Bernie is refusing to acknowledge anything or "pretending". As to what happens at the convention, reread my other post you responded to.

.

[bettyellen]

43. Well then he's just going to look silly, after insulting all those delegates....

I'd prefer he not blow his credibility on that, but whatever.

[cui bono]

49. Your 'concern' for Bernie's credibility is noted.

[bettyellen]

58. As is your insulting tone. Still don't hate Sanders, lol.

[cui bono]

63. MY insulting tone?

Guess you forgot you posted this:

Star Member bettyellen (34,687 posts)

36. I wish he would acknowledge the two person part is over by Tuesdsay and forget the flipping delegate

Bullshit. That would be ridiculous. I get him trying to make an impact, just not by pretending it's not over on Tuesday.

You insult our very democracy with that post.

.

[bettyellen]

67. It's not an insult to acknowledge the voters have chosen. Happens every election....

Not sure where you've been, but that's the way shit works. It is what it is, not what you're hoping it could be. For it to be that, you need to work for years- and start locally. Good luck!

[Lord Magus]

103. But one candidate WILL have succeeded by Tuesday.

Claiming that superdelegates don't count until they officially cast their ballot is lying.

[oberliner]

128. That's not what conventions are for

That ended in the 1980s.

[randome]

140. He will have more of a voice if he stops trash-talking everyone.

As it stands now, he is damaging his possibility for a speaking slot. A shrewd politician knows when to feint and when to dodge. Sanders is not shrewd.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[JDPriestly]

78. I'm in California. I haven't voted. Lucky you, if you have.

My vote goes to Bernie.

I'm proud to be able to vote for a person who had the foresight to vote against the Iraq War Resolution. I'm proud to vote for a person who supported gay marriage before the Supreme Court did and before it was popular.

I'm proud to vote for a person who has served on the Environmental, Budget, and Banking (House in the 1990s) committees in Congress.

I'm proud to vote for Bernie, his integrity, his experience and his humanity.

Hillary just does not measure up.

She is the beloved money-maker for the Party machine. So much for Hillary

Feel the Bern!

I certainly hope he does not go away. He is the face of integrity in the Democratic Party.

Goodness knows. There aren't very many of those.

Everything he says is true. Can't say that for Hillary.

[Lord Magus]

102. He won't bow down to the American people either, if he still plans to take it "to the convention."

Once all the states are voted, that's it. The people's decision has officially been made that point. The convention is not overtime.

[mmonk]

6. Too bad. He is to take our grievances to the convention.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Sheepshank]

8. Inconvenience? Nope I don't feel that at all

[CountAllVotes]

12. +1,000 !!

[jeff47]

88. This. (nt)

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Well that's one Sheep's opinion.

In reality, NOTHING that happens at DU has any bearing or effect on ANYTHING.

[PowerToThePeople]

13. My point of no return was the day Hillary announced

I was never going to vote for her.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

22. Enjoy your wall. N.T.

[NNadir]

27. We know. I never confused Sanders supporters with Democrats. They're now working for Trump.

[seabeyond]

14. He can be the blunt speaking, man of integrity he claims to be. We are a forgiving party.

All the man has to do is stand up and say.

I am done. I have lost. I am stopping the aggressive campaign against Clinton, I am shifting my position. Now, lets go.

[BobbyDrake]

15. If someone aggregated the amount of time Bernie spent attacking Trump or the GOP versus...

...the amount of time he spent attacking Clinton and Democrats, I wonder which number would be greater. I can't say with confidence that I believe he's gone after Trump or the GOP as much as he's attacked Clinton and Democrats who continue to fight to make progress in this country.

Bernie Sanders didn't simply pass the point of no return. He DROVE PAST it in his NegativeMobile 5000 on his way to enabling Trump by attacking Democrats like a progressive loose canon.

[LWolf]

18. I think the Democratic Party

is rapidly approaching that point of no return, and I think it's deliberate.

Bernie? I want him to keep going. I don't agree with your assessment of his supposed actions. I don't want him to bow out.

If the point comes when he needs to bow out, which will happen, if at all, at some point during the convention, I'm sure he will do it gracefully. And I'm sure he will endorse HRC. I don't agree with you that those are the "right" things to do, but I understand why he will do so.

I'm also sure that he cannot, and he knows he cannot, "unite his constituency behind Hillary." His "constituency" supports him because of where he is on the issues. As he's said all along, it's not about him. The political revolution continues whether or not he wins the nomination, and that revolution working to, among other things, remove neo-liberals from power is not going to suddenly "unite" behind a neo-liberal.

For so much of his "contingency," it's not about the nominee, nor is it about the GE. It's about taking the party back from neo-liberals or abandoning it altogether. They will either stay to continue the fight, which, again, does not include uniting behind neo-liberals, or they will abandon the party.

I do agree that we have passed the point of no return, when it comes to uniting with neo-liberals, anyway. And that is not about Sanders, and not something that is under his control.

[Live and Learn]

23. + a gazillion. nt

[MisterP]

42. the dominant party faction is for Wall Street, war, fracking, and payday lenders

race and gender aren't problems to be tackled, they're clubs to wield against dissenters from the left, feeding the alt-right

how far CAN the party sink? it's all form and no function

[cui bono]

47. Exactly. This is not about a two person race. It's about so much more than that.

The right wing of the party ignores that at their own peril.

.

[Lord Magus]

114. Actually, much of his constituency doesn't support him on the basis of issues at all.

The fact that you declare Hillary to be a "neo-liberal" is evidence of that. And the fact that many Bernie supporters say they'll go on to voter for his polar opposite in Trump is proof.

[NorthCarolina]

123. Sorry, but your interpretation is

complete bullshit.

[LWolf]

124. How nonsensical.

The fact is that anything that I "declare" has nothing to do with "much of his constituency" and their motivation.

And I certainly have not heard any Sanders supporters say that they'll go on to "voter" for Trump. As a matter of fact, the only people I've heard that from are Clinton supporters.

I suspect that a small number, not "many," might; those would probably be some of the crossover support he gets from outside the Democratic Party.

You seem to have an incomplete understanding of the term "proof."

[Lord Magus]

125. I don't buy for a second that you've heard Clinton supporters say they'll vote Trump.

The only people who I've ever seen say they'll vote Trump if they don't get their preferred candidate nominated are BernieOrBust people. Trump is the "OrBust" part of that equation in many cases.

[LWolf]

133. Again.

You seem to have some filters in your brain that translate things I say into things I didn't say.

I didn't say Clinton supporters would vote Trump. It's dishonest to imply that I did.

And it's your faulty comprehension, or a tendency to make unfounded assumptions, or your own disingenuousness, that leads you to suggest that "or bust" means Trump. "BoB" is a Democratic thing, not a crossover voter thing.

Democrats and left-wing independents or 3rd party members who support Sanders aren't going to vote for Trump. Some will vote Clinton, some will vote Stein or some other 3rd party candidate.

The fact that Sanders gets crossover support from Republicans and other independents that would normally vote R is frustrating, I know, because Clinton simply doesn't. It's THAT crossover support that will vote Trump if they can't vote Bernie. And that segment of the voting population is not here on DU, is not part of the Democratic Party or its usual allies on the left.

It's truly an aggravating thing for Clinton supporters to acknowledge that her nomination means the November loss of crossover votes from all groups outside the Democratic Party; they've never acknowledged her weakness outside her own party. It's aggravating to acknowledge that she'll even lose some support within her own party to 3rd party candidates. Aggravating, but true. True enough that the majority of Clinton supporters CAN'T, WON'T acknowledge her weaknesses as a general election candidate, even while the DNC is showing uneasiness. The frantic scramble to begin placing blame for her November loss on ANYONE but her and her supporters has begun, and will get worse. It's pathetic, really. It's everybody else's fault that she can't earn the vote. Or, instead of a democracy where each citizen votes their own conscience, the nation owes her their vote, and it's the fault of those who exercise democracy with a small d if she loses. As I said, pathetic.

[Lord Magus]

144. Crossover vote for Sanders from Republicans isn't real.

Any Republicans who are voting in the Democratic primary are people who will still vote Republican in the general election no matter who the Democratic nominee is.

[LWolf]

146. Sure it is.

You wishing it weren't doesn't make it so.

https://www.facebook.com/republicansforbernie/

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/why-surprising-numbers-republicans-have-been-voting-bernie-sanders-vermont

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-lifelong-conservatives-who-love-bernie-sanders/417441/

[Sheepshank]

150. I assume you haven't heard Susan Sarandon's latest?

She says Trump would be better than Hillary...many here agreed with her.

[3hummingbirds]

152. Bernie should stay in the race

I am definitely a Bernie supporter but will not vote for Trump if Bernie does not win. I support him because of the issues and his stance. Please do not speak for me. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[TheKentuckian]

155. Being a founding and unrepentant member of the DLC/Turd Way will tend to lend to that impression

Add a strong neocon lean and I have no idea what else one is supposed to think.

[Lord Magus]

159. Meaning that you're swayed by memes rather than facts? -nt-

[TheKentuckian]

163. No, I've been paying attention for the last thirty years.Those "memes" are well earned.

Founding member of the DLC point blank period.

Which military action has she opposed? Hell, which ones has she not been at or near the front in pushing? Hell, she is still talking crazy mucking around with an air cap in Syria.

Memes, my ass. It is what it is. Some of us can remember not only beyond a news cycle but actually even beyond the five year memory hole.

No, no.

You can't hand wave the stank ass Turd Way nor Hillary Clinton's interventionist and "muscular" military leanings.

[eastwestdem]

19. It will take the ultimate statesman to turn his ship around now. Time to see what he's made of. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. No, but he will in a few days time.

While I wish he wouldn't hang on til the last votes are counted, and I think he's hurting America by doing so, I can totally understand why he does so.

If, after those votes are counted, and it's clear that the will of the people is that Hillary is the nominee, he goes on trying to overturn that and damaging the Democratic party, I think he'll have crossed a bridge it will be hard to come back from.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. If she's the nominee, it's up to Hillary to "unite" the party...not Bernie.

[Chicago1980]

71. Actually,

It is partially up to him.

He has the responsibility as a member of the party to help fix what's broken, and that includes convincing his supporters, just like she did back in 2008.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. Is Hillary "broken"? Does she need fixing?

Is Bernie a repairman of faulty candidates?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

79. Technically sort of true, but deeply misleading.

Helping put Trump in the White House and then saying "don't blame me, it was her responsibility to stop him" is not a sensible action if you care about the people who will suffer as a result of him winning.

Trump becoming president but it not being your responsibility that he did so may be better than Trump becoming president and it being your responsibility, but it's not as good as Trump not becoming president.

[Lord Magus]

116. It's up to the loser to admit defeat, though.

[Zorro]

25. I think Bernie's on a kamikaze mission to wreck the Democratic Party

and has no intention to end his campaign gracefully.

[WhiteTara]

85. He has expressed his hatred of the party for many

years and he is really showing how much.

[Android3.14]

26. When Hillary voted to kill 500,000 people was my point of no return

Grace. As if you or Hillary know anything about grace.

[Hiraeth]

28. The Party is a Disaster. Standing tall with Grace and Dignity is all he has left.

You can thank the Clintons for the final blow. Matters not.

You are watching the end of the two party system.

[NNadir]

39. He is neither graceful nor dignified. He, and no one else is the disaster.

When you are rejected by the people, you gracefully step aside.

If you have dignity, you don't offer delusional scenarios in which you won even after the votes are counted.

[cui bono]

48. He was not rejected by the people.

[NNadir]

68. Yeah, I know...there's that famous Bernie Math. He won! Because he has more votes than anyone...

...who ever lived, and has out polled Washington, Lincoln, FDR, and even V.I. Lenin.

It's um...this is appropriately funny...Bernie Math!

iframe width="854" height="480" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cui bono]

69. You certainly have a strange notion of what rejection is, but then you seem to be very worked up.

You really should go relax.

.

[NNadir]

75. Yeah, I am worked up. A guy named Trump is running and we have Sandernistas running his talking...

...points here.

I'm not amused, except for that wonderful sarcastic post in the Daily News of all places, directed at my generation - Sanders generation - asking whether Sanders doesn't remind you of that stoner roommate you had in college, the one who always acted as if he knew everything, but barely scraped out C's anyway.

Is Bernie Sanders your stoner college roommate? After he fumbles his way through a Daily News interview, there seems to be far less to the socialist populist than meets the eye

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

[Hiraeth]

95. You are not amused? Hilarious.

I love the sound of Royalty in The Evening.

[Lord Magus]

109. It looks like so far he has been.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D

[Hiraeth]

51. Depends on which people. You stand with those people and I will stand with these people.

You call the people I stand with names and question their sanity.

You ask why.

I ask why not.

Selfishly, I want my Social Security.

Altruistically, I want a world with safe drinking water for future generations.

What do you want?

What do you need?

Have you got yours?

[Lord Magus]

110. And what does that have with the outcome for this primary?

If you are claiming that Hillary is against either of those things then you are a liar.

[Hiraeth]

115. oh my stars and garters. Welcome to Ignore.

[GulfCoast66]

91. Well, you are just wrong

Our system with the electoral college pretty much guarantees we will be a 2 party nation. Change to a parliamentary system if you want more parties.

The disgruntled Bernie supporters will slink back to the greens, anarchists, and libertarian parties. And a lot will go back to not voting. Hell, I bet a good portion of those kids at his rallies do not end up voting this round. The young just do not vote in high numbers.

And the party will pick up new members like all the new Latino voters, the remaining moderate republicans who have been forced to see their party for what it is(I know one).

Most Bernie supporters will vote with the candidate as polls have shown.

Certainly not the majority of Bernie supporters on DU, but we are hardly a representation of the population as a whole.

The party will be just fine with having the president and Senate.

[Hiraeth]

92. Given two choices, I will always take the third. Why is it always an either/or proposition.

[GulfCoast66]

93. Some always do

But folks figured out pretty quick that if those out of power divide the vote 3 ways, even if one of the out of power won more Electoral College votes that it could go to the House and party in power wins.

Like if Bernie goes 3rd party and the finish is Hillary, Trump then Bernie. Or any order you choose. Does not matter.

If none of them have a majority of the electoral College votes the house decides. Do I need to remind you who controls the house? Even if the finish was Bernie, Clinton then Trump, we would have President Trump.

Which is why the only time a 3rd party runs they do not care who wins. If Bernie went 3rd party he would be telling us he wants Trump to win. Which is why he won't.

[Hiraeth]

94. What do you think you are doing here? Educating me? Lecturing me? Gazing into your crystal ball?

Reading tea leaves?

[GulfCoast66]

97. Well

1. First you stated the 2 party system is over

2. I saw it will not happen

3. You say you like the 3rd option and why should others not not.

4. I explain why 3rd option never happens.

5. You throw a fit on me.

Now, I may we have misinterpreted the meaning in your 2nd post. If so, I apologize. But this whole time I have been(I think) respectful. I disagree obviously but not disrespectful. I was hoping for a reasoned discussion on DU-P. Silly me.

[Hiraeth]

98. I didn't say it Was Over but, I do think we are witnessing a restructuring of both parties

What eventually arises is yet to be determined.

I do not presume what others should do. That is for them to decide.

:Never Happens: is a prima facie False Statement.

If asking questions is your idea of throwing a fit ... then I would suggest you are passive aggressive.

[GulfCoast66]

100. Do not worry

If I get aggressive it will not be passive.😳

Had you stated the parties are realigning from the get go, I would not have replied. I would have still disagreed, but that is an entirely plausible theory. I just do not see it happening.

But there will still be 2 major parties.

Oh, it might surprise you because the meme is that Hillary voters are all centrist. But I would vote for an amendment to scrap our system and have a parliamentary system. As long as we kept the Bill of Rights and the Supreme Court.

Have a nice evening.

[Hiraeth]

107. Parlimentary Procedure with some updates to account for modern technology. Not against it per se.

Thing is, it always comes down to Two so Yes, in that respect, Yes. There will always be a two party system.

But, I can see it starting with more of a Sweet Sixteen (to lift a basketball analogy) with more choices going in and more parties holding primaries.

And You also, Have a good evening.

[Lord Magus]

111. Even if the third choice is worse? That's not rational. At all.

And some choices simply are an either/or proposition. A third choice doesn't always exist.

[Bjornsdotter]

29. Bernie has clearly stated

...that he was in it until everyone had a chance to vote. This is how it should be for every primary candidate.

Give everyone a chance to have their vote count and matter, not just those who live in states that vote early. I would prefer a one day primary election....everyone votes on the same day.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

53. Exactly

[Lord Magus]

112. He has, but now he's moving the goalposts.

He's now saying that even after everyone has the chance to vote, he'll keep campaigning up to the convention in an attempt to flip superdelegates. No matter what the outcome in the remaining states and territories might be.

[Bjornsdotter]

121. Until the vote at the convention

...there is no official nominee. Until the nominee has been officially selected all are still in play.

Moving the goal posts is when you are trying to skip steps in the process and end the game early.

[Lord Magus]

122. You're moving the goalposts.

There will be a presumptive nominee this week. I'm getting really tired of having to explain what that term means.

[Bjornsdotter]

142. I suggest the following

...look up the definition of presumptive vs official.

Next look up the history of Democratic Conventions upsets.

The goal posts are firmly in place, set for the Democratic Convention. I support everything playing out until the end vote by the delegates. Some of which have yet to be chosen.

The probability today lies with Hillary; the possibility lies with Sanders. Let's let the clock play out accordingly.

[Lord Magus]

143. There is never an "official" nominee prior to the convention.

This is the first time that people have been insisting that the presumptive nominee shouldn't be treated as the presumptive nominee, though.

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. I don't think Hillary is a viable candidate anymore

because her legal issues will inevitably become a deal breaker. I don't think Bernie believes she is viable either. And that is why he should not end his campaign.

To act like there is some norm to follow for this, is nonsense.

[NCTraveler]

35. I think it depends on what he does in the next week.

I believe if he has gone to far or not will be dependent on his own actions moving forward.

At this point I personally think he has gone a bit too far. I hedge that because I know there are things he can say after Cali that will get us back to being BFF's.

[David__77]

37. If she's the nominee, Clinton will be responsible for her results in November.

Just as Sanders will be responsible for his results at the Democratic convention.

[NNadir]

40. Exactly. Those of us who support her are very confident in that.

[David__77]

46. I think that confidence is important.

Without it, going off the rails is easy.

[cui bono]

38. Has Hillary? She's the one under FBI investigation.

And all states haven't voted yet. And neither candidate will get enough pledged delegates to clinch the nom before the convention.

Why would an any candidate drop out out in this scenario? The candidate who should drop out is the one who is under FBI investigation. That candidate is seriously jeopardizing the party's chances in the general.

.

[NNadir]

52. Yes, Sanders will win every delegate next week...the convention will be deadlocked and on the...

...196th ballot, the College of Cardinals will intervene and declare Sanders Pope Bernie I, Venus will move outside of Mars orbit next week...Christ and Moses will return and open a chain of pool halls in Minneapolis, it will begin snowing in the Amazon and Mount Everest will be revealed as a cheap prop when it collapses into a pile of broken sheet rock.

Hillary Clinton, on hearing this will find herself being carried away on a space ship from Area 51 and Moses will head out to Springfield, Illinois in a shiny new Tesla electric car, bring back Abraham Lincoln from the dead, mix in some genes from the recently revived FDR (who is actually Pope Bernie I) and instant nirvana will break out everywhere.

It's amazing how many people here refuse to be reality based.

[cui bono]

56. "It's amazing how many people here refuse to be reality based."

How can you say that with a straight face when you completely made up what I said?

Wow, you guys are really losing it over Hillary not being able to clinch the nomination before the convention. It's the weekend, grab a beer or lemonade and sit outside and try to relax and enjoy the day, and get back to reality.

.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

54. yes

[Lord Magus]

113. Please stop demanding that we invent new rules for this primary.

There has never been any requirement that a nomination be clinched with only pledged delegates. Every previous campaign from 1984 onward has seen the presumptive nominee declared once a candidate reaches a majority through pledged delegates and supers combined. You don't get to say that no longer counts this year.

[bigwillq]

44. I'm glad Bernie is fighting the fight

Whether for his own agenda or not. Someone needs to. The government is corrupt. I am glad someone is taking on the status quo.

I hope the fight Bernie is putting up is just the beginning. Bernie will not be around forever, so I hope others will continue his fight. I know I will.

[Arazi]

45. No way. All the way to the convention baby! I want his message out there loud and clear

For as long as he can.

The Democratic party has lost its way and become a neoliberal shell

[MohRokTah]

57. He will technically pass that point one week from today.

He will definitely pass that point two weeks from today.

Onec she has it locked up, he should bow out.

If he waits until after DC, he will be somewhat forgiven.

If he takes it to the convention, he will be a pariah in the Democratic Caucus forever.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. In 08 Hillary stayed in until the end gave many reasons for doing so while castigating those who

called on her to drop out. That simple fact makes posts like this and others by her supporters on DU into demonstrations of a double standard so stark raving blatant that one has to wonder what motivates it, a sense of arrogant entitlement or a more pernicious brand of bias. At any rate, I never trust people who run double standard games.

[Sheepshank]

60. Even republicans knew when to call it quits

[Lord Magus]

117. That is not even vaguely comparable.

08 was a much closer race and Hillary was leading in the popular vote. The outcome wasn't really decided until the very end.

[ThePhilosopher04]

65. It's not about the party. It's about the message and fighting for the American people. Go Bernie!!!

[NNadir]

66. Even if the American People don't want him?

Isn't that rather presumptuous?

He certainly isn't fighting for me and I'm an American. In fact, I consider him to be fighting against me, placing his own ego above the outcome of elections.

[ThePhilosopher04]

90. More Americans want Bernie than Hillary. She can only win when independents can't vote.

[NNadir]

96. Really? Bernie won more votes than anyone else?

That is a surprise...

I heard that Hillary had three million more votes than that tiresome senile fool.

Or are you just doing more "Bernie math" and assuming that everyone who didn't vote would have voted for Bernie, because you did?

Very presumptuous bunch, the Sandersnistas.

[Lord Magus]

118. That is a LIE. Bernie has lost most open primaries.

[rock]

70. It's dicey

I believe we're balanced on the edge. Let's see what Tuesday brings.

[MFM008]

76. I hope he pulls back from burning

those bridges.
You accomplish nothing by alienating your fellow democrats.

[merrily]

81. I know it's Hug a Cat Day, but I missed the Butthurt Over Bernie Day notice.

Judging by today's posts, it's very definitely on the calendar.

[BillZBubb]

131. +1, Today's Brockian meme must be disseminated.

[Armstead]

83. He passed that point on the day he announced his candidacy for some here

"How dare he challenge our anointed candidate?!?"

[bkkyosemite]

84. "Primary has been rigged at every turn,"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[aikoaiko]

86. Bernie has never promised to deliver his supporters. He isn't a sheepdog.

He said he won't run third party and he won't (although if he did be might win it all). He said he will support Hillary over any Republican and he will. That's all he is obliged to do given his previous statements.

He has also said that it is the HRC campaign that needs to figure out how to earn the vote of his supporters, and that's a problem for HRC.

As Yahne Ndgo said, "We don't trust what she says and we don't like what she has done."

[Lord Magus]

119. Claiming that he "might win it all" as a third party candidate is insane.

Good thing Bernie isn't as delusional as you.

[LaurenG]

89. You and those saying similar things are causing Bernie supporters to think that

We'd be better off living abroad rather than listen to this CRAP one.more.time. I hope he never gives up. This idiot talk like your freaking Queen is utterly arrogant. Your fear is showing. Oh and yes FEEL THE BERN!

[Trust Buster]

104. If Sanders supporters get violent outside the convention hall, it's all on Sanders.

He is not a Democrat.

[beachbum bob]

105. I think the full history of sanders is what has to happen

from links to an organization with CLOSE ties to the communist party...to dumping nuclear waste in Texas and his wife failure at Burlington college as well as her job with the same group that bernie tried to get law passed for the nuclear waste dumping as well as everything else like his fear to keep to america safe, his condemnation of business and success....and unfettered redistribution of wealth with no bounds.....

bernie think he is is a movement?...bernie is toast. time to end the charade


he is as corrupt and vile as they come ,conning his supporters, lying to the DNC and being a classless individual


america does not respect sore losers

and sanders is as bad as I have ever seen

[Hiraeth]

108. Everything you just said about Sanders is how I feel about HRC.

The way you talk about The Nuclear Waste and Jane's job is nothing on what Hill and Bill have done.

[beachbum bob]

126. lo...but really sanders is not who you thinks he is and thats the problem

becasue we know, super delegates know and the GOP knows


hoping its bernie to take on and not hillary for the very same reasons...sanders is toast

[Hiraeth]

138. yes, because Hillary is all things to all people and Sanders may be toast but,

that makes her a deviled egg.

[Cha]

120. Good way to put it, Sheepshank... I think he has.

[Feathery Scout]

127. No. Once Obama endorses...that is the point of no return

[Sheepshank]

134. what if the previous sitting president is running for re-election, or is a Republican?

That new candidates are to wait for an endorsement to have other candidates drop,out? That's an intersting break point you posit.

Perhaps you are suggesting that only for 2016. Not sure I go with that idea.

I just don't think Bernie is any position to bow out gracefully any more. IMHO he's damaged goods.

[Feathery Scout]

148. I mentioned Obama...our sitting president...because he is the current head of the Democratic Party

I mentioned Obama...our sitting president...because he is the head of the Democratic Party At this time. So his word is the final word on internal party differences/divisions.

And in the specific case this year; as the party head is also a POTUS with very high popularity numbers within the party; his word is that much more definitive.

It is the job of the head of the party to determine when internal divisions must end....for the good of all.

I'm not sure I understand your other question. Are you asking about when there is a re-election of a Dem POTUS, who decides about intra-party competitors?

Normally there are no Dem challengers to a sitting Dem president during his re-election. That goes with both parties. Although LBJ had troubles with this

He looked extraordinarily weak and announced that he would not run for a second term

[Sheepshank]

162. How about now?

[jcgoldie]

145. I agree

I really think the president will decide when the Sanders campaign is over and it really doesn't matter at that point what Bernie does, because if he chooses to continue he will look like a bit of a joke. I'm guessing Obama will officially put an end to the Sanders campaign on Wednesday morning.

[BillZBubb]

130. What a load of rubbish. He's entitled to stay in the race until the delegate votes are counted.

You Hillary fanatics are becoming the whiniest bunch of "winners" in history.

PS - Bernie won't be able to unite he constituency behind Hillary. He'll back her, but his supporters, unlike Hillary's, actually have a mind of their own.

[Zambero]

135. Even Ted Cruz knew when it was time to bow out

It's time for Bernie to face reality.

The fact that the vast majority of Hillary supporters voted for Obama in 2008 -- after more than a few swore they wouldn't -- suggests that Bernie's people will also fall in line. Trump is a far more powerful motivator (to vote against him) than John McCain could ever hope to be.

[BillZBubb]

136. Ted Cruz wasn't winning any state primaries. He had ZERO appeal.

Most Bernie supporters will hold their noses and vote for Hillary. There is no doubt about that. But, if that is true, why are you Hillary fanatics whining so much about Bernie staying the race? It shouldn't matter.

[randome]

141. He is ruining his shot at having a speaking slot at the convention.

When you don't know enough to stop attacking the people you need, they tune you out and leave you out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Zambero]

149. Not a fanatic

Yes, there are certainly a few on either side. After being undecided for months I've come around for Hillary, but still admire Bernie a great deal. He has every right to stay in the race and it's his call. But hoping to pull it off in Game 8 of the World Series is a pipe dream.

[JoePhilly]

137. We'll know in a week or two.

[Demsrule86]

156. We will know Tuesday

less than 48 hours from now.

[Cosmocat]

139. I am pretty confident

That Bernie will concede at some point, and will do his part in trying to beat Donald Trump.

I voted Bernie because he is more right on the issues and more direct and tough in speaking to progressive policy.

At the same time, I always knew Hillary was going to win the nomination, and while I see as being a bit warmed over and too neoliberal, she is a very capable person, is what passes for a progressive on a lot of issues in this day and age, and a FAR sight better than any R. S

Yes, the primary It is dragging out, and it is uncomfortable.

BUT, it his "right" to be in the race and stay in until such time as the process takes him out of it.

While the virulent energy that drives the Bernie "movement" brings with it a painful incivility among a lot of his supporters, his history indicates that he is a fairly classy guy and a strident progressive.

I would be surprised if he didn't take on a role similar to Elizabeth Warren in trolling him pretty heavily.

His supporters ... WTF knows.

[jack_krass]

147. Go Bernie!. ALL THE WAY TO THE CONVENTION! Ignote the detractors!

[PatrickforO]

151. There's no bowing out gracefully. The party is split between people who are sick of holding

their noses and voting for candidates that are socially liberal but continue to promote neoliberal economic policies, and people who seem to be ignoring the relevance of Bernie's platform.

Bernie is going to contest the convention, and it is going to help this nation quite a bit, because people are going to be educated on the real kitchen table issues. It may be that they will take this and start Bernie's political revolution, which will surely make many in office cringe, but those who cringe need to be voted out and replaced by those who want to organize our society around

HUMAN NEED instead of HUMAN GREED.

[valerief]

153. America has. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

157. I think he will bow out Tuesday night or Weds morning. But we will see.

Doesn't matter that much. PBO, FLOTUS, VP Biden and Dr. Biden are about to hit the trail for #45, PHRC.

[tom-servo]

158. I think many of Bernie Sanders' supporters...

... can't be convinced to support anyone else. The timing doesn't matter. I think they want him to fight for his stated goals to the convention and beyond regardless of whether or not he is the nominee. They don't just want a president, they want a better political reality. He may be able to convince some of them to vote for Hillary Clinton, but he won't be able to convince them to support her or the democratic party, if she's the nominee.

[arely staircase]

160. He can redeem himself.

A strong endorsement and some stumping for HRC and it's all good. At least I think for most. But I can only speak for myself.

[Sheepshank]

161. Yes...he has officially passed the point of no return

He's losing credibility and clout. His actions are disgraceful to the party he claims to have embraced.