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Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:07 PM

What he said

I'm going to support Bernie Sanders until he’s out of the race and I don’t think there’s any harm in doing that and he’s going to stay in to the end just exactly like Hillary did and she’s not going to be able to say a word about it. The Democratic party is going to have to deal with both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren when they get to the convention. They’re both keeping themselves in a position to have an effect and that’s fucking democracy.


The dude abides.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/04/steve_earle_on_backing_bernie_until_hes_out_the_democratic_party_is_going_to_have_to_deal_with_both_bernie_sanders_and_elizabeth_warren_when_they_get_to_the_convention/

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Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply What he said (Original post)
Meteor Man Jun 2016 OP
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #1
Schema Thing Jun 2016 #2
Live and Learn Jun 2016 #3
libdem4life Jun 2016 #6
Live and Learn Jun 2016 #8
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #9
morningfog Jun 2016 #35
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #36
morningfog Jun 2016 #37
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #38
morningfog Jun 2016 #40
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #42
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #23
Orsino Jun 2016 #11
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #12
Orsino Jun 2016 #16
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #17
Orsino Jun 2016 #18
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #19
Orsino Jun 2016 #20
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #21
Orsino Jun 2016 #24
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #25
Orsino Jun 2016 #30
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #31
Orsino Jun 2016 #32
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #33
Orsino Jun 2016 #39
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #43
Orsino Jun 2016 #44
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #41
Henhouse Jun 2016 #4
TimPlo Jun 2016 #13
Thinkingabout Jun 2016 #26
JSup Jun 2016 #34
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #45
2banon Jun 2016 #5
libdem4life Jun 2016 #7
Zynx Jun 2016 #10
TimPlo Jun 2016 #14
qdouble Jun 2016 #29
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #46
seabeyond Jun 2016 #15
Thinkingabout Jun 2016 #27
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #22
Thinkingabout Jun 2016 #28
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #47
YouDig Jun 2016 #48

Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:09 PM

1. Hillary dropped out after the voting was over.

 

We'll see if Bernie follows that path, or the narcissistic sore loser path.

Hmmm. I know which one I think is likely. It's the same one his most ardent followers think he'll take.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:22 PM

2. That wouldn't be narcissistic, nor would it be "sore loser".

Narcissistic is running for the presidency for most of your adult life, and finally assuming "now, it's my turn" in spite of historic unfavorables.


Bernie, otoh, wants to do good things, and political power is how you do good things in politics. That's the farthest thing from narcissistic, and staying in till the last minute to leverage your power to it's greatest effect is the farthest thing from being a "sore loser".

Happy to have helped. Please stop infecting DU with your stupid, outrageous, piss-on-Bernie post. TIA.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:24 PM

3. +10,000 nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:51 PM

6. Very well stated. Thanks.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:57 PM

8. You meant that for Schema Thing and yes it was. nt

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:59 PM

9. If he loses the voting, he can either respect the will of the voters

 

or beg party insiders to steal the nomination for him.

He can certainly fight for changes at the convention while being honest about who the nominee will and must be.

Thus far, his campaign has descended into petty whining and scalp-hunting (Frank and Malloy).

He said the most important thing is defeating Donald Trump. We will learn next week whether he meant it or whether it was just a disingenuous line from a politician.

The primary race is over Tuesday. He can admit it or get treated deservedly like a laughingstock.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:23 AM

35. The voting portion of the race is over June 14.

 

Hillary stayed in past that point in 2008. Everyone just needs to relax for another week.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #35)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:24 AM

36. By 4 days. nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:26 AM

37. Your point?

 

That is a completely arbitrary number. The point is, the howling and moaning and pissing is premature. At least wait until June 14 to be consistent.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:28 AM

38. Clinton was in surrender talks with Obama 2-3 days after he clinched.

 

they met 1 on 1 at DiFi's house.

Any idea where he's going to be speaking tomorrow night?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #38)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:36 AM

40. If you know where and think it important, tell us.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:43 AM

42. I was asking because I do not know nt

 

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:04 AM

23. Bernie has never been about making deals and maximizing leverage.

 

he's been about taking a rigid position and not compromising

as the loser of the primary, there's not much power he has.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 06:21 PM

11. Seems like a safe bet...

...whether or not you're aware that Sanders long ago committed to going all the way to the convention.

As long as we can use that to prop up our favorite talking points, though, everybody wins, I guess?

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Response to Orsino (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:11 PM

12. then he forfeits the right to speak at the convention.

 

His decision and technically his right to lobby to get the superdelegates to act as his personal Katherine Harris and disenfranchise Hillary's voters.

But he will deserve the really, really ugly backlash that will follow.

And it will prove his claim to be most concerned with defeating Donald Trump to be less than true, as many of us have long suspected he is more of a spoiler than a team player.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:22 AM

16. That's one risk, I suppose.

But a mature front-runner would instead find a way to win Sanders supporters over, or at least make room. A direct snub seems unlikely and counterproductive.

Arriving at the convention without delegates is the way to be ignored.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:31 AM

17. Neither candidate would be allowed a chance to campaign against the other

 

before the vote. Winner would get to give an acceptance speech of course.

He's going to have to admit she won in order to speak in a prime time slot. Requiring an act of basic sanity is not unreasonable.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:48 AM

18. I think it most likely that Sanders would want real concessions, platform-wise...

...or perhaps a Cabinet post, rather than quibbling over a particular time slot for a speech.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:51 AM

19. Platform is a legit request, requesting a cabinet post is highly inappropriate.

 

it's the kind of nonsense John Edwards did.

also, I don't think Bernie would like to be taking orders from anyone, or being an administrator of a large bureaucracy.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:55 AM

20. A Cabinet slot seems to be exactly the resultof the '08 fight...

...and we are not likely to learn exactly when that deal was struck.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:59 AM

21. Obama asked her in the fall after he beat McCain, she was reluctant at first.

 

No way Obama would have cut that deal back then--his interest was always foreign policy instead of domestic policy.

But, then the big subprime shitpile went nuclear, and he didn't have the bandwidth to focus on international matters.

Even if one were to say Clinton would have maybe asked for something like that, no way would Obama make that kind of concession.

This is all out in the public record.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:09 AM

24. That is adorable. n/t

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Response to Orsino (Reply #24)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:11 AM

25. so you're suggesting President Obama blatantly lied?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-and-clinton-the-60-minutes-interview/

Steve Kroft: It's no secret that your aides cautioned you against-- actually were against you offering Secretary Clinton this job. And you were just as determined not to take it. And you avoided taking her phone calls for awhile because you were afraid she was going to say no. Why were you so insistent about wanting her to be secretary of state?

President Obama: Well, I was a big admirer of Hillary's before our primary battles and the general election. You know, her discipline, her stamina, her thoughtfulness, her ability to project, I think, and make clear issues that are important to the American people, I thought made her an extraordinary talent. She also was already a world figure. And I thought that somebody stepping into that position of secretary of state at a time when, keep in mind, we were still in Iraq. Afghanistan was still an enormous challenge. There was great uncertainty in terms of how we would reset our relations around the world, to have somebody who could serve as that effective ambassador in her own right without having to earn her stripes, so to speak, on the international stage, I thought would be hugely important.

Steve Kroft: You've been quoted as thinking or telling people that there was no way you were going to take this job and you weren't going to let anybody talk you into it.

Secretary Clinton: Well, I would--

Steve Kroft: What did he say that night that made you--

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:39 AM

30. Yes.

We'll never know tor sure, of course.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:51 AM

31. and committed a federal crime?

 

And sold away his right to make foreign policy in order to get the endorsement of a candidate who was already defeated and had no incentive to go PUMA?

We do know--the facts and the logic are right in front of you. Clinton is a Democrat who wanted to keep her future in the party viable, so she acted like a team player.

This is what usually happens in primary races--the losers endorse the winner.

I think you've lost some perspective

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:04 AM

32. If you're talking about during the convention, that might be crimi al.

It's just going to be difficult to prove anything.

And very naive to assume that the SecState post came compketely out of the blue ling after the primary.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:09 AM

33. Sec of State offer was 5 months after she dropped out.

 

Obama has been squeaky clean in office. Do you really think he started committing federal crimes before he even got sworn in?

You're arguing against every single piece of available evidence

Come on

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #33)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:35 AM

39. 599 is very specific about what's illegal...

...and it's not just naming a Cabinet pick publicly. However, when a candidate is already pledged to support the eventual nominee--and that's what party members do--it would be very difficult to prove any particular quid pro quo, particularly when both candidates have an interest in concealing such negotiations. Waiting five or more months to announce is a decent interval, but let's not pretend it only happened the night before.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:45 AM

43. you literally have nothing but unsubstantiated speculation

 

to back up this peculiar theory.

it's against the weight of every available piece of evidence, and also a rational look at both persons' relative incentive structure

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #43)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:55 AM

44. The only evidence is the public announcement.

Last edited Mon Jun 6, 2016, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

If anything illegal was done before, we're not likely to know.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:40 AM

41. +1, and Obama wasn't up 3 million votes either... Sanders is stuck in the 50s... we'll see

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:33 PM

4. JUNE 8, 2008 - HRC Ends Campaign with Clear Call to Elect Obama. NYT

Clinton Ends Campaign With Clear Call to Elect Obama

By ADAM NAGOURNEY and MARK LEIBOVICHJUNE 8, 2008

WASHINGTON — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton brought her campaign for the White House to an end on Saturday with a rousing farewell to thousands of supporters here and an emotional and unequivocal call for her voters to get behind Senator Barack Obama, the man who defeated her for the Democratic nomination.

For 28 minutes, standing alone on a stage in the historic National Building Museum, Mrs. Clinton spoke not only about the importance of electing Mr. Obama, but also about the extent to which her campaign was a milestone for women. She urged women who had supported her — who had turned out at her headquarters, flocked to her rallies and poured into the polls to vote for her — not to take the wrong lesson from her loss.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/politics/08dems.html

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Response to Henhouse (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:28 PM

13. You and your fellow drones sure do forget what 2008 was like.

 

"Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton Tuesday refused to bow out of the Democratic race Tuesday, hoping to maintain leverage as Barack Obama clinched the delegates needed to secure the party's nomination."

...
"Clinton told the crowd she would consult in the coming days with advisers about the fate of her moribund candidacy. But her remarks came hours after she told congressional colleagues she would be open to joining Obama as his running mate."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24953561/ns/politics-decision_08/t/clinton-refuses-concede-nomination/#.V1NhiJErK70

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/democrats/2073076/Hillary-Clinton-refuses-to-concede-defeat-despite-Barack-Obamas-delegate-victory.html

She refused to drop out until 4 days after the voting and . Funny enough her campaign staffers claimed she lost 2008 " “She is a woman”. Every fucking thing Clinton Drones cry about happening this campaign are things Clinton did in 2008. Bunch of Hypocrites they all are.

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Response to TimPlo (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:17 AM

26. Clinton drones, huh? Then there must be Sanders drones also.

I can handle being a Clinton drone, feels good.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:21 AM

34. But drones...

...imply a queen and that only helps the narrative of 'royalty' over her husband having been President for two terms even though he wasn't born rich and was called 'white trash' by his 'DC betters'.

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Response to TimPlo (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 09:02 AM

45. K, so point being she ceded when he won the majority

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:48 PM

5. Indeed, that's democracy.. all the way until he's out and he isn't out yet,

 

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Response to 2banon (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:55 PM

7. It's all the more time to work on the down ticket races and the up

 

and coming generations that have a real stake...and the productive years of their lives...to make this happen.

Bernie was for a Revolution before he was a Presidential Candidate. He will be for the Revolution afterward...regardless. He is the Leader the Occupy Movement needed. And he's had one heck of a organizing year.

And if HRC actually gets to move her desk supplies into the WH, it won't be a week before the impeachment...and another national disgrace...begins. Thanks to Clinton v. 2.0

They are a twofer...for sure.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 04:59 PM

10. Hillary got out after the last primaries when the declared total of pledged and super delegates

eliminated. By the standards under which she got out, Bernie should get out after next week.

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Response to Zynx (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:30 PM

14. Not at first.

 

She refused to drop out until June 7, 2008 till after one last appeal to Super Delegates and a meeting with Obama where they must of struck a deal for being given consideration for a cabinet position for Clinton.

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Response to TimPlo (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:25 AM

29. where's your proof that she was offered a candidate position to drop out?

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Response to qdouble (Reply #29)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 09:02 AM

46. The podium bird told em

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:31 PM

15. Sanders will declare his support of Clinton after Calif, correct? Per your post. The you contradict

 

yourself saying Sanders will go on to the convention to cause trouble. Can't have it both ways. Pick one.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:19 AM

27. Good point, just as many voters decided before the campaign began the SD's also decided.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:01 AM

22. She got out before the convention

I don't care about Bernie Sanders. I want to beat Trump and Sanders continues to attack our nominee. He has no path to victory ad needs to concede and endorse.

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:21 AM

28. We could give Sanders four days to sway the SD's, then he accepts the results and we

Move on.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #28)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 09:03 AM

47. +1

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Response to Meteor Man (Original post)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 09:05 AM

48. Warren is going to endorse Hillary this week. If Bernie wants to help Trump, he'll be doing it alone

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