4 Democrats: Calif is an open primary. Expect lot's of Repugs (aka: "independents") to vote 4 BS

[Bill USA]

Last edited Sat Jun 4, 2016, 05:47 PM - Edit history (1)

THus Bernie could pull out a win with GOP help. Clinton will still get about half the delegates and reach 2383 delegates, but it will encourage Bernie fans to demand their candidate should be nominee even with less pledged delegates. ( OF course, in any case, Bernie fans would say Bernie should be the nominee no matter how few pledged delegates he gets, because Hillary is the Wicked Witch of the West..LOL!)

But anyway, Democrats should prepare themselves for a large cross over of Repugnants in California. It will be their last chance to set Bernie up for their shooting gallery in November.

ON EDIT:

I have been informed (see cmnt 6 ) that California has what is known as a "semi-open primary".

It's possible previously registered republicans could have changed their affiliation before may 23rd, a factor always in play, but there other party down ticket offices to vote for, so it would be rare.|It's possible previously registered republicans could have changed their affiliation before may 23rd, a factor always in play, but there other party down ticket offices to vote for, so it would be rare.]...[link:It's possible previously registered republicans could have changed their affiliation before may 23rd, a factor always in play, but there other party down ticket offices to vote for, so it would be rare. see: Cmnt 19

thnks goes to 2banon for informing me on California's Democratic primary. I have been interested in public policy issues for several decades, but I am not that "up-on" how various states primaries work (-- Hell, I'm not that "up on" how MY state's primary works. I have always voted Democratic and never had to deal with voter affiliation issues as regards a primary or general election).

also see my comnt 15 in which I point out that the Indie's in Calif are about evenly split between Dems and Repubs.

[Warren DeMontague]

1. Internal Polling must not look good, huh?

Time to start spinnin'.

[virtualobserver]

17. it's a Republican conspiracy, I tell ya....

It's rigged.....except not in a good way.

[Ohioblue22]

24. Yea it's called operation chaos

[virtualobserver]

25. "operation chaos" is only happening in your mind

[AntiBank]

26. omg, you made me spit my wine

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Is that what happened in Oregon?

All those Rush Limbaugh fans voting for Sanders in Portland, huh.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/oregon

[AgingAmerican]

51. Is that what 'It' is called?

lol

[Fuddnik]

33. Making excuses already.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Zactly.

[Ferd Berfel]

2. Maybe the same Independents and republicans

that will not vote for Clinton in the GE, but desperately want to vote for Bernie in the GE rather than Drumpf

[Bill USA]

7. What a GOP campaign against Bernie Sanders might look like: "When did you stop being a Communist?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016152717

[Ferd Berfel]

9. So they might call him names.....

[JackRiddler]

27. "Trolls are the dog-piles in the lawn of life." - Bill USA.

(btw, in context, obviously, you mean dogshit. Dogpiles are fun, and quite the opposite.)

So in other words, this GOP campaign will exactly mirror the logic of the Hillary camp being employed here, of "When did you stop being a Republican?" Except that Sanders never was one of those. He was also never a communist, but he lets you call him a socialist even though he barely qualifies as that. It sure has damaged him so far!

If only he'd been a neoliberal willing to claim any position for votes, armed with 400 politician endorsements ("superdelegates&quot , a hundred million in corporate donor PAC-dollars, 100% name recognition, the party machines all working for him, and the corporate media treating him 24/7 like he's the single, pre-ordained candidate. All of which was true of Clinton a year ago when Sanders was but an insurgent blip.

Why did he fuck up like that? Play the game and win it the professional way, man! First serve your masters for a few decades, then pretend this is a democracy!

[AgingAmerican]

60. That ancient nonsense just doesn't work anymore

People are Sick and Tired of what we have now.

[Live and Learn]

3. Independents are now Republicans? I think you meant non-partisan since Independents can't vote

in Democratic primaries in CA and non-partisan means exactly that not Republican.

[RufusTFirefly]

4. Haha. Defining the post-election narrative in advance, I see.

Things must be looking bad in the Golden State for Clinton.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. Oregon is a closed Primary and Bernie won it by a large margin, in CA it's 'semi-open' which mean

people who are not affiliated with a Party and members of the Party can vote in the primary. Republicans and members of other Parties can't vote in the Democratic Primary.

Not that it matters. CA has seen a huge spike in Democratic registration and registration in general this cycle.

And of course Bernie has won the rest of the Pacific Rim States including Oregon's recent closed primary. Double digits and all that.

So your whole premise is bogus. It sounds fear based.

[Lord Magus]

61. Lumping California in with Washington and Oregon is delusional. It's a completely different state.

And about Bernie's winning everything in the rest of the Pacific states.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. I lived most of my life in CA, still pay taxes there. I live in Oregon now.

So blah, blah, blah. The OP has corrected some of the bullshit in his vapid OP, so that's something.

[Lord Magus]

77. Nothing to say about the Washington primary?

[2banon]

6. no, it's a semi-open primary, registered repugs cannot vote democratic ticket

only NPP can choose between the three, republican, democratic or the white supremacist "american independent".

don't promote misinformation.

[Bill USA]

13. I didn't know that. thanks for that info.

[bobbobbins01]

16. Maybe you should update your OP to reflect your new knowledge.

You wouldn't want to spread misinformation.

[Bill USA]

36. New info added to OP.

[2banon]

19. You're welcome..

I'm going to be working as a judge/inspector on the 7th. This involved extensive training and that is one item among others, already addressed.

it was designed specifically so that couldn't happen.

It's possible previously registered republicans could have changed their affiliation before may 23rd, a factor always in play, but there other party down ticket offices to vote for, so it would be rare.

[2banon]

23. should have mentioned, NPP would have to REQUEST a ballot for D, R, or I

in order to be able to vote for presidential candidate in the primary. If they are NPP and they don't request a party ballot, they'll receive a ballot with no presidential candidate listed on their ballot. Only local non partisan offices and initiatives will be listed on their ballot.

[JackRiddler]

28. Hmm, do you think you could stand to actually correct your false OP?

I mean, being that you've shown willingness to learn something here, no?

[azurnoir]

8. this sh*t again? How many thousands of Republicans would have to cross over to affect the outcome

in a state the size of CA-it's and I'm being polite unrealistic or as another poster said internal polling must not be lookin too good

[Bill USA]

15. I checked Calif voter data & Indies r about evenly split between Dems and Repug's, so it isn't as

. dire as I thought.


http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=526

Independent likely voters are split between Democrats and Republicans.
In our surveys over the past year, independent likely voters were about equally likely to lean Democratic (37%) or Republican (34%); 29% did not lean toward either major party.

[Waiting For Everyman]

10. Wow, you must be real worried Bernie's going to win.

I thought Hillary had all those Repub "megachurch moms" on her side.

[Bill USA]

22. as I said in OP, HRC will get the delegates 4 the nomination. But BS fans are looking 4 any sort of

rationale to demand Bernie get the nomination (other than the number of votes cast).

I only posted this as some Polls have shown Hillary with a 7% to 10% advantage. I don't think that is reliable .. probably based on only polling likely Democrats. I think it's most likely to be quite close, a percentage point of two.

BTW, I like Bernie. I just know what the GOP would do if he were to be the candidate. The GOP are masters of demonization and the Big Lie.

[DCBob]

11. Operation Chaos will be in full swing Tuesday.

[JackRiddler]

30. At least, within the Clinton Reality Bubble.

Republicans can't vote in the CA primary.

If anyone switched affiliations to vote for a Democrat, you'd normally think that was a good thing, no?

[AntiBank]

39. except it WONT , rethugs cant vote in the dem primary

[Orsino]

12. There will be no shortage of excuses, no matter who wins.

But the most important thing, though, is that some people will get to gloat.

[Marr]

14. I thought you guys were against people claiming foul play every time their candidate loses.

Apparently that rule, like so many others, only applies to your opposition.

Huh.

[procon]

18. Too many errors to be taken seriously.

Calif is not an "open" primary.

The GOP does not allow crossover voting.

Republicans cannot vote for any Democrat.

Calif does not have an "independent" party.

etc.

etc.

etc.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. Here in CA many of those Independents...

you are going on about are Liberals that are not registered Dems as well as Green Party members who have reregistered just so they can vote for Bernie. Those folks finally have someone from the Party they feel they can happily vote for. And I think it's terrific. Here in SF, every Green Party member I know is voting for Bernie -- his candidacy brings in some wonderful people who would have voted for Stein otherwise.

[nc4bo]

21. Excuse me. Not all Indies are GOP. Poster integrity, FAIL.

Rest of post has little value except perhaps what hits the toilet bowl and goes Plop!

[Jester Messiah]

29. Cry some more, Bill.

California is one of the bluest states in the union. Also, the GE isn't a closed primary, so maybe you ought to take independents into account when picking a candidate.

[JackRiddler]

32. Wait. The GE isn't a closed primary under control of a single party?!

They might just let anyone vote, even Republicans and the simply unaffiliated unwashed masses who have never volunteered in or worked for Democratic campaigns?!

Why didn't anyone tell that to the Clinton supporters?!

God, this game is soooo rigged against her!

[99Forever]

31. Wonderful idea there Billie.

Insult 40% of the voting population.


Wow! You're some kinda politicky genius, huh?

[HooptieWagon]

35. Hillarian desperation masquerading as speculation.

With a whole lot of utter bullshit thrown in.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. The Campaign to marginalize Sanders supporters continues.

[HooptieWagon]

40. Well, they already said our votes aren't needed or wanted.

I'm fine with that, though I will enjoy giving them a Barbara Boxer middle finger when they start begging for support.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. I am at that point as well

and for godsakes we are not supporting anybody

[AntiBank]

41. they keep this shit up they will marginalise Trump's ass right into the White House

[jack_krass]

42. Repukes would vote for Hillary. Two Reasons:

1-Trump polls better against Hillary than Bernie

2-Many repukes, especially neocons *LOVE* Hillary. The PNAC founder, Richard Kagen and many other prominent repukes have endorsed or spoken highly of her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Except they can't. The primary is not open to Rs

only No party preference voters.

[Lord Magus]

62. Is that supposed to be a joke?

Repukes loathe Hillary with a burning passion. And regardless of the polls, they fear her. They don't fear fear Bernie.

[ContinentalOp]

43. There are about 1,420,248 right wing "independents" in CA with no reason to vote in the R primary

No doubt a huge chunk of them are going to send in an absentee ballot for Bernie just to screw with the Democratic primary. Anybody who think otherwise is incredibly naive.

17.7 million registered voters, 23.6% of them (4,177,200) are "no party preference". 34% (1,420,248) of those NPP voters are Republican leaning.

About 5 million people voted in the 2008 CA Democratic primary, which is maybe a 28% turnout. If that many of the right leaning indies vote for Bernie, that's about 400,000 votes. Clinton beat Obama in the 2008 CA primary by about 422,000 votes. It seems very likely that this one will be much closer, and even 100k or so rw ratfuckers could swing it for Bernie. It won't really matter in the big picture though.

http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=526

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. If NDPs were not registered Republican they could not

pesky facts

[ContinentalOp]

50. Exactly. They can't vote in the R primary but they can vote in the D primary.

That's 1.4 million "no party preference" Republicans who already have a nominee but are allowed to vote in the Democratic primary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. So I guess by your logic I am a republican

Okie dokie



No the way it works in the state I am not affiliated with ANY PARTY, which is fine by me

[ContinentalOp]

65. And yet here you are posting in "democratic underground"

Because even though you might be "no party preference" you would be considered "democratic leaning." And there are an equal number of "no party preference" voters who are republican leaning. They are allowed to vote in the Democratic primary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. You might want to read the SO FAR TOS

And by your broken logic this is a republcians household.

I missed that memo

I live in the is state. I fucking cover politics in this state, I think I have an idea, But since I have been told by a certain crew I am not an immigrant, or Jewish, or press, I guess it is ok to think I am a republican. Hey, not new...

At this point it is becoming a point of comedy.

Though you can be guaranteed that I will not tell you who the fuck I vote for.

[ContinentalOp]

70. I'm not really following your post there.

I'm not attacking you personally or calling you a republican. I'm just pointing out a simple fact.

Of California's "no party preference" voters, over 30% of them (accounting for 1.4 million voters) are "republican leaning." And they're allowed to vote in the Democratic primary.

You can say that they're not really republicans because they're not registered as such but that's kind of a funny argument coming from a Sanders supporter, considering that Clinton supporters have complained that he's not really a Democrat and Sanders supporters have countered by saying that his actions are more important than his party registration and prove he's always been a Democrat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Yes and care to look at the 70 percent you got in that data

and you do know the Libertarian Party and the American Independent Party also are part of the modified primary.

And no, right leaning does not automatically mean Republican, just like left leaning does not automatically make me (thank goodness) a democrat.

What your posts and those of others are guaranteeing is that I, and many others, become further radicalized. And as YOUR PARTY continues to drift right, and the Rs continue to implode (both parties are in trouble) the rest of us will move on. Hey, we independent might even sit it out. Since we are being constantly told that our vote is not needed or wanted by people like you.

Follow that logic sparky.

By the way, I am too stubborn not to vote. I grew up in another country where elections were also a sham. Here it started to be way too obvious in 2000.

Oh and Sparky I care only about ONE THING ON THE BALLOT, PROP I... city of San Diego, YOUR FUCKING PRIMARY IS TRULY AN AFTERTHOUGHT to me, so how fucking exactly makes me a supporter of your party? I care far more about the mayoral race, as well, City Attorney. The primary, afterthought. Truly.

[ContinentalOp]

79. It's not "right leaning" and "left leaning"

It's "republican leaning" and "democratic leaning". 29% don't lean toward either major party. "Republican leaning" indies are people who reliably vote for Republicans. I'm not sure why you're taking this personally. You would presumably be counted in that 29% that doesn't lean toward either major party.

http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=526

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Go ask the pollsters why they ask that question

I have..

But sure, I am a dem, since I am left leaning

[ContinentalOp]

82. Or you know, you could choose "neither" if you were polled.

Just like 30% of indie voters did. This isn't as complicated as you're making it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Or you could refuse to answer pollsters since you are working media

which we do

But I have asked the people who DESIGN them polls

[ContinentalOp]

89. There's nothing wrong with the polling question.

Again, the 34% of CA NPP voters who are "republican leaning" represent about 1.4 million people. The libertarian candidate for president in 2012 only got 1.2 million votes nationwide! Those "republican leaning" indies are not all libertarians let alone AIP voters. They're, you know, Republicans. Just like they told the pollsters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Acutally yes there is

pollsters do not ask political leaning anymore becuase they know AMERICANS OVERALL have been dumbed down that much. It betrays a highly naive and uneducated and easy to control and manipulate population.

[TimPlo]

48. What is funny is that you took all the time to look up the numbers.

But did not bother learn that it does not matter because CA is not totally open primary.

[ContinentalOp]

49. "No party preference" voters can vote in the CA democratic primary.

They can't vote in the Republican primary, nor would they have any reason to this year. Yet 34% of the "no party preference" voters are Republican leaning. They represent about 1.4 million people who are essentially Republicans but are allowed to vote in the Democratic primary. They most definitely could have an impact on the Democratic primary. It would take little to no effort on their part, because this is not a caucus. They can vote by mail.

[Matt_R]

92. Elvis never did no drugs. n/t

[Retrograde]

44. CA presidential primary is closed, the rest of the primaries are open

We run the primaries for all offices up for election at the same time, so next Tuesday we're also selecting who will go on to run for Senate, House seats, State Senate, and State Assembly seats in November - the top 2 finishers for each seat have a run-off in November, regardless of party (and it looks highly likely that we'll have 2 Democratic women vying for Boxer's seat).

We don't have "Independents" per se: people who do not choose a party when they register are listed as No Party Preference, aka Non Partisan. There is an American Independent Party recognized by the state, but they're an offshout of George Wallace's old ultra-right wing segregationist party.

Here's where the semantics get a bit tricky: the presidential primaries are closed, but the 6 (yes, there are 4 other presidential primaries going on) parties can each chose whether or not they would let No Party Preference voters participate in this election. The Democrats said yes, the Republicans no. So if registered Republicans wanted to help throw the election towards a particular candidate they would have to have re-registered as Dem or NPP by May 23 - and I don't know if the Secretary of State's office has the data on that available yet. Re]publican-leaning NPP voters can ask for a Democratic ballot just like Democratic-leaning ones. Doing that en masse would require some fair amount of coordination, something the California Republican Party doesn't seem capable of anymore.

I know this is repetitious, but there's been a fair amount of misinformation posted in the past few weeks about California's different processes. Fortunately, the CA Sec. of State provides a lot of helpful information at his web site. This is also sent to all registered voters about a month before each election.

[eastwestdem]

56. My next door neighbors fit the bill...repubs who register NPP since there is never any hope in

the Bay Area to get state offices into republican hands. So, by being NPP, they can vote on a Democratic presidential ballot for the primary, and then for the repub presidential candidate in the general. They are both voting for Sanders, hoping to weaken the Democratic Party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. And I know a couple Democrats who will vote for Cltnton in the primary

to keep the commie out, and vote for Trump in the fall, did I mention they are conservadems? They hate the clintons with a hot white fire that none here has seen... Do not mention either bill or Hillary in their presence unless you want to see a change that is so fast it is not even funny.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Modified primary

NDPs can vote in the primaries of three parties, after requesting a cross over partisan ballot, Republicans cannot.

Facts they don't matter, but still FACTS.

[ContinentalOp]

52. 34% of those NPP voters are "Republican leaning"

They're essentially Republicans who are allowed to vote in the Democratic primary. 1.4 million of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. But they are NOT republicans

pesky facts,

Also there are two other parties that allow cross over voting.

Here they are

American Independent Party
Democratic Party
Libertarian Party

Hmm you lean right, which party do you think you would pick? Just curious? For the record, the AIP is not the real answer here.

[ContinentalOp]

66. They're not REGISTERED as republicans

Doesn't mean they aren't republicans if they in fact vote for republicans every time. A "republican leaning" independent does not vote for the American Independent Party or Libertarian Party candidate. They vote for Republicans. That's why they're considered "republican leaning." Libertarians would be counted in the other third of NPP voters who don't lean Democratic or Republican.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. You got me buddy, I am republican

Here is the mystery for you, SO MANY PEOPLE have left both parties that we really have no fucking clue who will show up, or who they vote for. Why polls polls in this state get ahem interesting But you got me, I am a fucking Republican.

(Actually I an not, but hey, by this broken logic, sure)

News flash, I am neither an R, or a D, nor do I intend to be either for the rest of my life, You partisans...

[ContinentalOp]

73. What on earth are you talking about?

I never called you a republican. I pointed out the simple fact that a third of "no party preference" voters in CA are "republican leaning." Maybe you're in the third that would be considered "democratic leaning" or maybe you're in that other third that's neither. That's totally beside the point.

Eastwestdem explained it perfectly here http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512124145#post56
There are Republicans in CA who have registered as NPP for the explicit purpose of voting in Democratic primaries.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. And I pointed already to you that there are two other parties that lean right

that allow people to ask for cross over ballots.

[ContinentalOp]

81. "Republican leaning" indies tend to vote for Republicans

They don't vote for the AIP. Those people are counted in that other 30% who don't lean either way.

And by the way, are you aware that the Libertarian Convention already took place and the party already has their nominee? Not only that but the CA Libertarian primary is non-binding anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Whatever dude

but they do many a times VOTE LIBERTARIAN

Op chaos is a nice talking point, of which there is like zero evidence, but it usually used as an excuse

Keep doing that, and guaranteed many of us will sit it out. You can win on your own. You do not need progressives, and do not TRUMOP ME. But the behavior I see here is beyond naive. Now let me see if the San Diego Marathon is over. We got things to do and that news story already ran.

[ContinentalOp]

88. Here's your evidence

44% of Sanders voters in the West Virginia primary said they would support Trump over Sanders in the general election!

But sure, republicans would never ever screw with a Democratic primary. They're such nice honorable people.

And again. Nobody in their right mind is voting Libertarian in the CA primary since the Libertarian Party already had their convention!

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Yes and 20 said they would vote for Trump after voting for HRC

did I mention two of my neighbors are doing that? Oh and they are registered Democrats. It is a life time habit,but they cannot stand the clintons.

And whatever dude, make excuses, we are having presidential level turnout. (Which should be celebrated no matter who fucking wins) This is what this is about, WHHAMBULANCE ON THE WAY.

[Ken Burch]

54. A Bernie win would be just as legitimate as a HRC win. n/t.

[arely staircase]

58. Either way she wins the nomination. nt

[arely staircase]

57. Oh hell yeah

Trump people will put Bernie over the top there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. So registered REPUBLICANS can vote in the Democratic primary?

Now I suppose in an alternate reality that would be the case, but I am a resident of this state, and perhaps you do not know this, but registered republcians do not vote in the democratic primary. To be fair, Democrats don't vote in the R one either.

Op Chaos is in your imagination

[arely staircase]

63. Open primary means anyone can vote in either one.

In Texas you don't even register as a member of a party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Modified open primary. There, I helped you

[Bluenorthwest]

72. Texas has had the second worst turnout of any State this cycle. Texas elects Republicans.

CA's Democratic Primary is not open. Republicans can't vote in it Knowing these details is part of how one comes to win elections, and if I lived in Texas I'd be pondering that notion.

[davidlynch]

69. Oh here we go: inoculate Hillary against the coming bad news n/t

[AgingAmerican]

74. So she's afraid she gonna lose?

Boo hoo hoo!

[jeff47]

83. Internal polling must be awful, if they're sending people out to spew this crap.

"It's an open primary, so Republicans!!!!!"

"Ok, well it turns out I'm clueless and Republicans can't....but some might re-register!!! (Please don't notice that this is entirely possible with closed primaries)."

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. That is my read as well

and San Diego County is expecting to have PRESIDENTIAL level turnout. I know a few of the local SDs are also having more than just second thoughts.

But hey, I have been called every name in the book, including now Republican, What is not to like about these divisive season, And they want me to fall in line? It's not my party for starters.