Sanders: Clinton can't declare victory if she wins the voting

[geek tragedy]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/04/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-convention/index.html

Says Clinton needs to win a super majority of pledged delegates to be considered the winner.

Which, of course, is dishonest spin as Clinton will have much larger majorities than did Barack Obama in 2008.

He added that he will not recognize her win and will contest the nomination at the convention.

Looks like his own ego matters more to him than protecting the country from Trump.

Claims to be a populist reformer who doesn't believe that the will of the voters should carry the day.

He just forfeited a speaking slot at the convention. He still gets to watch Hillary give her acceptance speech.

We'll beat Trump without him.

[scscholar]

1. He already lost

Can we not keep posting about Bernie's desires to disrupt?

[geek tragedy]

2. When he stops threatening to disrupt and decides the

welfare of the country and the planet is more important than his sense of entitlement and ego.

When he admits that the fact he lost means he doesn't get to be the nominee, sure.

We have 12 more days to address his attempt to steal the nomination before we treat him as irrelevant, for good.

[Ken Burch]

88. He isn't trying to steal anything.

And no one would in the Democratic base would be left out in the cold in a Sanders administration.

[seabeyond]

93. Yu hu. He pushed most of us to the side as it is.

[Demsrule86]

98. I would be because he lost the primary ...he got less votes

He would have stolen the primary...but it won't happen. He can carry on and embarrass himself...the supers won't help him. He just looks small and spiteful.

[upaloopa]

110. There is not going to be a Sanders administration. I know it will take a long time for some to

realize it but that is the reality.

[Demsrule86]

119. True

I don't know why they make me so angry. I have waited for this moment my entire life ...to see a woman nominated by one of the major parties...and I want to enjoy it. I like Hillary very much too so that makes it sweeter. She is a fighter so am I .

[Gothmog]

118. The primary contest has been over for some time now

[AgingAmerican]

141. Then why is it still going on?

If it is over?

[OnDoutside]

159. The answer to you question is hidden here, can you find it ?

[link:

|

[ProudProgressiveNow]

235. +1000 nt

[geek tragedy]

122. If he loses the voting, his only moral choice is to concede nt

[baldguy]

183. He's trying to claim Clinton hasn't won when she has.

He won't graciously accept his defeat, and keeps lying to his supporters saying that he can still win.

That what stealing looks like.

[tarheelsunc]

188. Only the majority of Democratic voters. Good to know you all think we're "no one". eom

[pandr32]

202. There isn't going to be one

...and he has already shown his petty vengeful side, and His campaign (under his control) has been caught cheating already.
Nice try.

[MillennialDem]

199. Bernie Sanders ego... lol... he just wants what is best for the country, he doesn't give

a damn about himself.

[geek tragedy]

203. which is why he's scalp-hunting against Barney Frank and Dan Malloy

No petty ego issues there, nope.

[MillennialDem]

204. Bernie would probably throw himself on a grenade to get his policies implemented. He really

doesn't care about the fame and prestige like Hillary does.

[geek tragedy]

206. so you expect him to do everything possible to help Clinton defeat Trump

and get a Democratic congress elected so he can lobby for his platform?

That is certainly what I would expect if I took him at his word.

[MillennialDem]

208. He almost certainly will. We'll just have to wait and see.

[geek tragedy]

209. I really, truly hope you are right and I am completely, embarrassingly wrong

about him.

I hope I have to write a post eating a whole pie full of crow

[Arkansas Granny]

3. It appears that we will have to beat Trump without him.

He doesn't sound like a mam who is concerned with party unity, only his own ego.

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. If you want to follow the rules, the nominee is decided at the convention.

If you want to make up your own rules as you go along, Hillary was already declared the impending nominee over a year ago.

[annavictorious]

53. Impending nominee?

The Sanders side needs to print a glossary of berniespeak terms so those of us in the reality based world will be better able to follow this week's blather points.

[TeacherB87]

76. Bernie is making it up as he goes along, clearly.

He was against superdelegates before he was for them. He decried caucuses as undemocratic before he benefitted from them and went silent. He had nothing to say about the Democratic primary process until it was already too late to change anything. Go read about the 2008 Democratic Primary and Convention (our last close nominating contest) to see how this works. When she gets the majority of pledged delegates (2026) it's done.

[seabeyond]

77. 2026.Yes. This is the number that says it all, Tuesday. Nt

[beachbum bob]

5. sanders has NO say in the nomination process, hillary has the majority

of everything....nothing but an old sore loser embarrassing himself more and more every day almost like senility

[geek tragedy]

10. They should send Cornel West packing.

If he is going PUMA, no enemies inside the gates.

[Live and Learn]

6. I think we can quit the pretense that these primaries equate to voting in any sense of the word. nt

[geek tragedy]

8. Votes count even when they're not for Bernie.

[Live and Learn]

18. Okay, go on with the pretense if you must. nt

[upaloopa]

111. Gone on with your denial if you must.

[Live and Learn]

112. Nope, mine is fact. nt

[Demsrule86]

99. Excuses, excuses

Obama managed to win...face it your candidate lost.

[Lord Magus]

139. You actually have the audacity to claim that primaries are not voting? -nt-

[Lil Missy]

157. The votes for Hillary count too. She has millions more than Bernie. n/t

[seabeyond]

7. He is demanding we all get blinded in his fairy dust storm. I can't see.... Lol.

How do you tell a bunch of informed, smart adults that we all have to pretend a while longer cause he wants us to?

[bravenak]

9. I guess Cornel wont be getting ball tickets

[geek tragedy]

11. He should be kicked off the platform committee.

[bravenak]

13. Damn straight

And a certain Senators should be stripped of his committee assignments

[BobbyDrake]

12. No one one his side will explain why HE doesn't have to win with majority of pledged, though...

Almost as if he's not being held to the same standard to which he is holding her. #hypocritemuch?

[geek tragedy]

14. Women only get .79 delegates for each delegate a man gets.

#berniemath

[sufrommich]

24. Also,votes from "Confederate" states don't count.

Even when the votes come from descendants of the victims of the Confederacy.

[geek tragedy]

26. They count as 3/5 of a delegate.

#berniemath

[PeaceNikki]

38. And again!

[TwilightZone]

45. ...Ditto

[lancer78]

132. Red states already

have fewer delegates than blue states based on population. California only has 50% more people then Texas, but has more then double the number of pledged delegates. Sanders lost because from Louisiana to North Carolina and everywhere in-between except Florida, he only won 10 counties.

[PeaceNikki]

37. Well done!

[TwilightZone]

44. Bravo and...

[Henhouse]

63. K&R....nt

[uponit7771]

240. +1

[seabeyond]

17. That is what I have noticed most about Sanders and his campaign. Hypocrisy. Mind blowing

hypocrisy.

[geek tragedy]

51. His heroes are Daniel Ortega and Fidel Castro

Trots view democracy as a tool towards revolution, not something with intrinsic worth.

[seabeyond]

52. Not to mention thinking food lines are.... cool. Lol. Nt

[Hekate]

135. Heh. Great little subthread, guys.

0.79% -- 3/5 vote --- well done

[Trust Buster]

15. I can't wait for this fool's 15 minutes to be over.

[geek tragedy]

16. I'll be donating to Al Giordano's campaign in 2018 nt

[brooklynite]

19. If a majority of Delegates say they'll vote for you...

...what do THEY know?

[geek tragedy]

20. I hope the superdelegates take extra safety precautions

Self-styled revolutionaries who don't believe in democracy tend to take extreme measures.

[brooklynite]

28. The "SuperDelegate Hit List" certainly doesn't help...

[geek tragedy]

30. Will the chairs be bolted down in Philly? nt

[Henhouse]

64. snickers....not the chairs again....n/t

[surrealAmerican]

39. Their votes only count after they actually vote.

If you want to change the rules to allow superdelegates to vote early, that could be something to take up at the convention. It will not, however, be changed for this primary election.

It's not a question af "what they know". It's just the rules.

[upaloopa]

115. And they vote for the candidate with the majority of pledged delegates and the majority of the

popular vote and that ain't Bernie. So unless you can control the future Bernie will not be the nominee and Hillary will so she wins on Tuesday with the majority of pledged delegates and the majority of the popular votes.

You can lie to yourself as long as you want but it won't change anything.

[surrealAmerican]

174. There is no such rule.

If there were, we would need some accurate way of determining the popular vote for one thing.

I can't control the future, and neither can you.

[moriah]

21. I'm trying to see this as all justified talk to not suppress Tuesday's voter turnout.

I really, really am.

I will even give him enough time to make his case to Washington, DC voters, as they should have representation too, even if it's unlikely just based on those farking demographics I hate pollsters using to divide us.

But I expect a consession before June 21st, if Hillary wins enough pledged delegates and we split all the Superdelegates that haven't already chosen Bernie 50/50 between the candidates to have 2383 under that scenario. (That's giving him like 50 freebies I think now).

If not, if he expects the Superdelegates to overturn the will of the people after arguing they were unDemocratic to have at all, he's just going to look like a farking hypocrite. And I don't think he is one.

[geek tragedy]

33. I expect the other 100+ super delegates have already made up their minds.

And they'll make their plans known next week. nt

[moriah]

40. I also know if Bernie pulls off a mathematical miracle, enough Hillary superdelegates...

... will flip, along with the undeclareds, to Bernie to push him over 2383.

[geek tragedy]

41. If he wins NJ and Cali unanimously, you bet. nt

[andym]

22. Bernie's going to play this the same way Reagan did in the GOP in 1976

Reagan went to the GOP convention and tried to switch the "uncommitted" and non-pledged Ford delegates to him to beat Ford and he came very close. Just like Hillary, Ford had the majority of pledged delegates but not enough to claim the nomination without the "superdelegates."

[sufrommich]

25. Sanders won't come close. I doubt he'll get a single super to switch.nt

[Sheepshank]

133. To be fair, one super did switch from Bernie to Hillary

A switch is a switch.

[andym]

239. I agree Bernie will have trouble getting the superdelegates to switch

The big difference is that Reagan had a swarm of conservatives holding some power in the GOP thanks to the conservative movement after Goldwater. Bernie has far fewer progressives/liberal superdelegates to appeal to, since the FDR democrats are long gone, and the modern Democratic party is rather moderate.

[Gomez163]

27. He will not get to speak

[andym]

34. Probably correct

And it will be very difficult to convince the superdelegates to switch as it stands right now.

[geek tragedy]

35. He will get to give a speech

outside to the street protestors.

[Cali_Democrat]

81. What exactly will they be protesting? nt

[geek tragedy]

121. TBD nt

[Lord Magus]

140. Protesting that Bernie lost apparently. -nt-

[baldguy]

184. Democracy, apparently.

[Demsrule86]

100. Not the same at all

the supers in Democratic circles vote for the candidate with the most delegates...it is to prevent such a spectacle...one vote she's in and Bernie is escorted out at this point.

[dsc]

194. the unpledged delegates were elected delegates

PA then, and now, doesn't require its delegates to be pledged to their candidate. If you are going to site history it behooves you to actually know history.

[andym]

213. But history is richer than you think...

It was not only Pennsylvania in 1976. And there were enough "uncommitted" delegates to sway the nomination, just as there are non-legally bound superdelegates in the Democratic Party today. Of course these superdelegates can commit to any candidate, but there is no legal binding and they can change their mind as some did in 2008, switching from Clinton to Obama at the end of the primaries. It's really quite the same, but for the tendency of many Democratic superdelegates (uncommitted delegates) to announce their preference in advance.

In 1976 Some of the "uncommitted" delegates were open changing allegiances: The Mississippi delegates in 1976 were the prime example-- they were actually pretty much controlled by a party boss, and at the last minute decided for Ford swinging the election to him.

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/13/470271684/1976-the-last-time-republicans-duked-it-out-to-the-last-heated-minute
"There were debates, handshakes and deals before a final vote that all came down to the state of Mississippi.

"Had Mississippi stayed with us instead of going as a block to Ford on the procedural question that we raised, I think we might have been nominated," says Reagan campaign manager John Sears. "But it was that close."

It was so close that:
"Tom Korologos, official proceedings with RNC: There was a delegate that broke her leg, or hurt her leg. The convention floor is raised four or five inches so they can put the wires underneath, and the phones and the lights and all that. So it’s a wooden floor. Well this one lady stepped off the floor and hurt her leg pretty bad, and probably broke it. And she was sitting there writhing in pain, and they wanted to haul her off to the emergency room or to the hospital. But I remember … we wouldn’t let her go because her alternate was a Reagan delegate. We couldn’t afford to lose the votes, so we got some delegate doctor. I think it was a congressman from Kentucky as I remember. They came over and put a splint on her leg made out of convention programs or out of something, and made her sit there for an extra hour until after the vote. Then they carried her off."
from http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/1976-convention-oral-history-213793?o=1
which I think is clearly in the mind of Bernie's team.

[frazzled]

23. Call in the Sandman already!

Nothing but the Apollo's "Executioner" is going to get this man off the stage.

[geek tragedy]

29. President Obama may have to step in. nt

[MFM008]

166. lol

like my dear old Dad used to say............ Get The Hook.....

[Agnosticsherbet]

31. In 2008, 2117 delegates were needed to win. Obama only had 1,828½ pledged delegates. That's reality.

He won with super -delegates

Clinton will win with a mix of pledged and superdelegates.

When she hit 2383 she is the Presumptive nominee.

It is that simple.

Time to get aboard the "Let's kick Trumps Ass" bus.

[apcalc]

32. He is such a disappointment....

[senz]

167. He is courageous. And he is within his rights.

[Demsrule86]

180. Nonsense

Destruction is easy...but let Bernie try to do what Roosevelt and Johnson did...he couldn't do it...because building things takes work...so Bernie can easily destroy all progressive accomplishments since Roosevelt...no doubt. He can bern it down and destroy that which he could never create. People like Bernie never accomplish anything.

[senz]

218. Reagan and Clinton destroyed the progressive momentum.

You need to know that. We've talked about it at length on this site. If you want education, I can give you some when I have more time. Let me know.

Bernie goes back to FDR/Kennedy/Johnson/Carter. He is putting progressivism back on the map.

Reagan reversed the New Deal. Clinton, with Al From, changed the Democratic Party so that it no longer stood for progressive ideals. The American people have suffered terribly as a result.

That's what this is all about.

[Demsrule86]

243. That is bullshit

When Clinton arrived in 92 Bush I was well on his way to re-election. We had lost the White House for 12 years. Those were not years where a liberal could win. Clinton did what he had to do to get elected. And he was far preferable to Bush...you all act like those times were the same sort of times as today. They were not...the Reagan revolution was going strong...the only reason Clinton managed to win is he tacked to the middle and Perot ran. Clinton never had a majority...not once not ever....not even in the second term where Perot also ran and saved our bacon. You complain about what Clinton did ...but consider what the Republicans could have done during those years...the court picks alone would have destroyed liberal progress. And it is kind of ironic how it was a candidate not unlike Bernie Ted Kennedy( he later said his behavior during that time was one of his biggest regrets)...who helped elect Reagan by contesting the primary. Ted also blocked health care out of spite during the Carter years...he regretted that as well. I am a great admirer of Ted Kennedy. One of my friends worked for him. He was the lion in the Senate in later years. But there is no doubt he hurt this country by helping to elect Reagan. And Ted regretted it and spoke publicly about it and put in his books. You should consider the terrible harm a Trump presidency would cause. Bernie will not be the nominee, but we still need to win. I never thought to see a worse Republican candidate than Reagan...But Trump is that guy.

[baldguy]

185. He's a self-aggrandizing, self-important whiner.

He has the unmitigated arrogance to believe he could be President without being able to select a campaign staff to get his message out, and without having the temperament & ideas to attract required number of supporters.

[senz]

219. I have never seen a politician with less ego.

He took his campaign from 60 points behind a year ago to neck and neck today, and he did it without superpacs, MSM support, and political power. He did it from scratch. Your candidate had it all set up before she announced.

The trend in these primaries show Bernie gaining gaining gaining. He is amazing.

[Mohammed_Lee]

36. Bernie is wearing thin..... N/t

[Tarc]

42. "...and will contest the nomination at the convention"

I do not know how clearly it can be stated, Bernie; This-Is-Not-A-Thing. Superdelegates are not going to flip on the pledged delegate winner based upon your imaginary polling vs. Trump or an imaginary Emailgate indictment.

As we used to say in Mass, it's ovah.

[geek tragedy]

43. He's going Tonya Harding.

Ego over country.

[senz]

153. None of this is about his ego.

[baldguy]

186. All of this is about his ego.

If he packed it in & gave a concession speech, he'd have a seat at the table & have the opportunity to have his positions on his issues included as part of the party platform.

On this path he gets to play the unfairly wronged bleeding-heart martyr. Problem is he's not bleeding, and it wasn't unfair.

[senz]

220. He's not looking for "a seat at the table."

He's trying to change things for the better.

And we, his supporters, do not want him to give up before it's over.

[baldguy]

226. Since this is a democracy, that's all that will be available to him.

If he casts that aside, that will set his cause back another decade.

[Raastan]

46. This is why I have really come to dislike BS

He has no interest in anyone other than himself and his Frankenstein campaign.
How any Democrat can have any respect left for him is beyond me.

[CrowCityDem]

47. The emperor has no clothes. No concession, no convention speach. Period.

[geek tragedy]

49. No Cornel West on the platform committee. nt

[msongs]

48. after 25 yrs a snoozing backbencher of little note this is his BIG moment in the spotlight nt

[geek tragedy]

50. His big moment is a temper tantrum

Fitting, actually.

[annavictorious]

54. Clinton is not, and was never going to declare victory.

But the media will refer to her as the presumptive nominee.

[geek tragedy]

56. Why would she not declare victory after winning? nt

[TimPlo]

58. Because I don't think Clinton is as dumb or clueless

as many of her supporters are. She knows how a nominee is chosen. Many like to point at Obama being the "winner" in 2008 but he only got that because after 4 days after the last primary Clinton had meetings with top DNC officials and Super delegates where it was most likely they said they where firm in their support of Obama. Then she meet with Obama and there some agreement was made where she dropped out and at that point was when Obama became the nominee. Did none of you follow the 2008 elections?

[geek tragedy]

67. Clinton met with Obama 2 days after the last primary

Obama had already been declared the presumptive nominee without her input.

Does Bernie need a sit down with DWS for him to know they won't steal the nomination for him?

[Demsrule86]

101. She will or the media will

We will not wait for the convention to declare a presumptive nominee it is way to close to the election...Bernie needs to shut it down one way or the other...and I am sick of tantrums...she will win either this weekend or on Tuesday...period end of story.

[MohRokTah]

68. She WILL declare victory on Tuesday night.

Count in it.

The reason she will declare victory is,... well,... because she will be victorious.

[Gothmog]

55. Sanders is lying about a contested convention to keep the small dollar donations flowing

This is really sad

[geek tragedy]

57. I think he wants to extend his 15 minutes.

All of that mass adoration, the huge crowds, must be intoxicating and addictive.

[beachbumbob]

59. 2383.....victory Hillary...loss sanders

June 7...,9pm est

[geek tragedy]

69. He definitely should go. nt

[Lucinda]

97. I'm 100 % in favor of that!

[Demsrule86]

107. There is no place for him to go except back home to Vermont. He has lost.

He did than anyone expected but not good enough.

[handmade34]

173. he will be most effective back in the Senate

[joshcryer]

61. I doubt he follows through.

[SidDithers]

62. If he plans on taking it all the way to the first ballot...

then no way, no how, should he get a speaking spot at the convention.

Sid

[geek tragedy]

71. Fair is fair. No speaking spot for Hillary before the vote, none for him.

Winner gets to give the big acceptance speech.

[SidDithers]

73. Yup...

And the loser can give a concession speech.

Sid

[Demsrule86]

102. Hillary the winner can speak when wants

I expect her to wait until the last night which is traditional...as for Bernie, if he doesn't concede and endorse before the convention...no speech and no platform goodies either...one vote and out he goes.

[Stuckinthebush]

189. First and only ballot

The roll call will commence and she will win the nomination around Texas. That'll be fun.

[MohRokTah]

65. Time to cut him out of the Senate caucus

Zero committee assignments for Sanders.

[Txbluedog]

66. He's just saying it to get his supporters out to vote

Remember Cruz was saying the morning of Indiana he was going to continue no matter what and as soon as the results came in he suspended. After Tuesday, there will be a lot of people including POTUS who will be saying enough is enough

[RobertEarl]

70. Making up new rules, are you, geek?

H does not have the votes from delegates to be declared the winner. That's what the rules state.

Only at the convention, after the rest of the votes are cast and counted, will anyone be declared the winner.

All this moaning and whining from the H camp is childish. The rules were set ahead of time and now some of the H camp is upset the rules are being played by Bernie to his fullest extent.

Get over that H is not the winner. She never has been, and at this rate never will be.

This is how adults see the election. I suggest yall act that way.

[jcgoldie]

72. Denial is a long long river:)

learned that in grade school.

[RobertEarl]

80. You tubing it?

H is not, and may never be the winner. Denial of that is kinda weird, eh?

[jcgoldie]

125. yes say it again

Almost seems real.

[Lord Magus]

142. You're the one making up new rules.

In 08 Obama was declared the presumptive nominee on June 3. He had 1828.5 pledged delegates. The threshold for the nomination that year was 2210 total delegates. His 478 superdelegates put him over the top. Nobody objected then that the superdelegates wouldn't vote until August 27, because that was when all delegates voted. Just like all delegates will vote on July 27 this year.

That's the difference between a presumptive nominee and a nominee. A presumptive nominee has enough delegates to win, but the delegates haven't voted yet. A nominee is someone who's actually been formally nominated by their party.

[RobertEarl]

223. Hillary conceded

Bernie is not going to concede

Nobody objected because Obama was not in legal trouble and because Obama was clearly the better candidate.

Hillary is weak. She showed how weak she was in 2008 and again in 2016. All her money, fame and connections and she couldn't outright win the delegates needed to put her in the winner's circle again!

Obama has not endorsed her. He's no fool. He is waiting until after the FBI report and the convention. We, who are not Bernie supporters, should be so wise.

[BootinUp]

74. She has to say the magic words first. nt

[geek tragedy]

75. "Whatever, Bernie." nt

[Nonhlanhla]

78. After 240 years,

a woman finally wins the primaries of one of the major political parties in the United States, and a man refuses to recognize it.

[seabeyond]

79. Yes. Lol. Nt

[skylucy]

83. Yes. I agree. I find that very telling too.

HILLARY 2016

[arely staircase]

86. Quite literally True nt

[msanthrope]

94. This is OP worthy. nt

[bravenak]

103. Exactly

[lunamagica]

126. Spot on

[handmade34]

175. ...

[geek tragedy]

196. Boom. nt

[Maven]

198. Correct

[uponit7771]

241. +1

[mcar]

244. This!

[eastwestdem]

82. Maybe he should just regroup and prepare for 2020. nt

[seabeyond]

87. At 78? I suggest he get organized and go out on the road, encouraging others in speeches

to get into the grass root, local races and work their way thru the system. Took bagger about 8 yrs. Not a long time. He can develop a fuckin revolution, instead of this lazy ass approach off the back of the Democratic Party.

[eastwestdem]

91. Yeah...that was kind of my point. He pretty much waited way to long to mount his revolution. nt

[seabeyond]

92. Hey, if he really put the work in, which does not seem to trend with his lifetime,

A couple years and he could really have this thing moving in the right direction.

[eastwestdem]

95. I guess we'll see how dedicated he really is in the coming year. nt

[CherokeeDem]

84. True colors.....

I don't think he thought he had a chance in hell to win the nomination when he flimflammed the Democratic Party into running as a Democrat. The Party shouldn't have allowed it.

He's whined about everything including the unfair rules, then admitted his campaign knew the rules going in. Now that he has a taste of the big time, he doesn't want to go home. This is not about his ideals, this is about his ego.

Sanders is an embarrassment and a very sore loser.

[arely staircase]

85. Shark

Jumped

[morningfog]

89. Link to confirmation that he will not be speaking at the convention?

[Demsrule86]

105. An active candidate

will not be permitted to give a campaign speech at the convention..he concede and endorses or no speech and platform goodies. I am sick of Sander who is more and more acting very badly.

[morningfog]

113. Link to that rule?

It makes no sense. Both would be active candidate.

Again, link? I looking for a source, not yours and other anonymous posters' wishes.

[hack89]

127. No. It will be over.

there is nothing to contest.

[geek tragedy]

131. 1992--Jerry Brown was denied a speaking slot.

Neither he nor Clinton gave a speech before the voting.

I'm sure Bernie will claim this means the convention is 'rigged.'

[Lord Magus]

144. If both were active candidates at the time of the convention neither would get a speaking slot until

after the delegates vote. Which has always been the way it works for the winning candidate anyway; they don't speak until the final day when they give their acceptance speech.

[Demsrule86]

182. I am sorry. Did you misunderstand?

He could speak. I know of no rule that prevents it...however, a losing candidate who refuses to concede and endorse won't be allowed to and with good reason. Hillary Clinton has been generous to allow him any say at all...if he continues with this behavior...he loses all convention goodies, including a speech and the ability to influence the platform...one vote and she is no longer the presumptive nominee but the actual Democratic nominee... and Bernie goes out on the street escorted by security no doubt.

[geek tragedy]

123. 1992--Jerry Brown

Candidates for the nomination don't get prime time speaking slots to argue against each other. The winner gives an acceptance speech, the loser gets to watch.

His gamble to take.

[basselope]

90. Clinton has no viable path to victory in the GE.

[Demsrule86]

106. Yeah well your candidate can't even win among Democrats so he has no chance period. nt

[basselope]

109. Democrats make up 29% of the electorate.

The real battle is won with independents. Clinton will not get them to turn out for her.

She has no viable path.

[upaloopa]

117. More Bernie make believe. In November Hillary will be the President elect.

[basselope]

128. 0 chance.

[Renew Deal]

116. She can with your support

Welcome home partner.

[basselope]

129. I would never vote for her.

[Thinkingabout]

176. I hear the same statement from Republican friends.

[basselope]

200. So?

[baldguy]

187. The you are a Trump supporter.

If you don't actively support the Democratic nominee, then you tacitly support the Republican candidate.

[basselope]

201. No.

Sorry, but there are more than 2 choices on the ballot.

[baldguy]

205. Only two have a chance of winning. If you don't vote for one, then you're supporting the other.

And you've already said you won't vote for Trump's opponent.

[basselope]

211. I won't vote for Trump.

So, I must be supporting his opponent, then.. right??

Hmm, your logic seems flawed.

[baldguy]

215. The only way to ensure Trump is defeated is to *VOTE FOR* his only viable opponent, Hillary Clinton.

You're conflating the two - voting for & supporting - and they are not the same thing.

[basselope]

217. I am not voting for EITHER.

I am not supporting either.

Your logic is that if I don't vote for one of them, I am de-facto supporting/voting for the other. Thus, just think of it as me not voting for Trump.

B/c frankly in the war of the lesser of two evils... I am not sure which one would win that fight.

But I am done voting for evil in any form.

[baldguy]

224. Then you are a supporter of Trump's candidacy.

That's how it works. We don't have proportional voting; we don't have a parliamentary democracy. The candidate with the most votes wins the whole enchilada. If you don't like Trump the best option to ensure his defeat is to CAST YOUR VOTE FOR the person most likely to defeat him. In November, that will be Hillary Clinton. If you don't vote for her, then you're supporting Trump.

[basselope]

229. No.

I don't like Clinton OR Trump.

Therefor I will not vote for either of them.

[baldguy]

230. If you don't vote for Clinton, then you're supporting Trump.

Embrace your inner fascist. Feel the hate flow through you. You know you want to.

[basselope]

231. If I don't vote for Trump, then I'm supporting Clinton.

Are you telling me I should vote for Trump???

[baldguy]

232. That's not how it works. But you knew that.

I'm sure you're happy to know that Trump is counting on your support - and that of the other BoBs.

[basselope]

233. But, I'm not voting for Trump... so then you must be happy.

Since that is "the way it works".

[baldguy]

234. See #215

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512125209#post215

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[basselope]

237. You can't have it both ways.

It's why you sound so silly.

I will not vote for evil.

Thus, neither can have my vote.

[baldguy]

242. And you can't deny the fact that refusing to vote for Clinton helps Trump.

You want to help Trump. That's a de facto vote for evil.

[basselope]

245. And you can't deny the fact that refusing to vote for Trump helps Clinton.

[baldguy]

246. Not when it doesn't include a corrosponding vote FOR Clinton.

The Republicans have spent decades & millions of dollars trying to suppress votes in favor of Democrats. Why are you going out of your way to voluntarily help them?

[basselope]

247. I'm not.

I'm helping Clinton by not voting for Trump.

But that doesn't mean I am going to vote for someone as unqualified as her.

[bvf]

216. Cripes! Still more from Johnny One Note there.

Every time you say this, it increases the perception of you as a complete idiot.

And I've heard that from both sides of the camp, just so everyone knows.

[Demsrule86]

96. Of course she can.

What a sore loser. she is called the presumptive nominee until the first ballot of the convention then she is the nominee...he can go and make a fool out of himself, but it won't change anything. She won, and he lost.

[SCantiGOP]

104. So eager to see this conversation end

I do agree with your OP.

[Lil Missy]

108. Sanders has no say in the matter. n/t

[Renew Deal]

114. Obama will destroy him next week if he makes the wrong choice.

[eastwestdem]

120. Since when is the loser in charge of this? nt

[geek tragedy]

124. He thinks he can boss her around.

"Excuse me! I'm losing."

[Waiting For Everyman]

130. And he's exactly right

but why let a little thing like the fact of it make a difference. Excerpt from the link:

The Vermont senator accused the media of lumping together pledged delegates and superdelegates, noting that superdelegates don't formally cast their votes until the convention in late July, or, as Sanders put it, "six long weeks from today."

It's just more of the Clinton cheating that we've seen throughout.

And cheating isn't winning.

[Hekate]

134. New California poll says over 65% of Sanders voters will vote Clinton in November...

Sounds like we have a lot of people living in the reality based community in my state, and that the BSers at DU who are swearing we have to never hurt their feelings (by bringing up reality) or they'll stamp their feet and stay home ....are not exactly speaking for the majority of BSers in real life.

[aikoaiko]

146. That's it?

[Number23]

136. "He just forfeited a speaking slot at the convention." From your lips to God's ears!

I'm really not interested in seeing let alone hearing him at the convention.

[Number23]

137. Wow, did you see the bit in your article from Warren?

"I don't think that superdelegates ought to sway the election," the Massachusetts senator said, MassLive.com reported, an apparent reference to Warren's desire for superdelegates to not give the nomination to Sanders.

Warren has not endorsed a candidate in the Democratic primary fight. But behind the scenes, discussions between the Warren and Clinton camps have been markedly increasing, especially as the freshman senator has begun to a play a more prominent role attacking Donald Trump, a source close to Warren has told CNN.

I know EW was thrown under the bus a while ago by Sanders supporters but I think this will make them weep even harder about doing so.

[geek tragedy]

138. If he pretends Clinton hasn't won after Tuesday, what will

follow will be the biggest public humiliation since Brazil's World Cup match vs Germany.

[Warren DeMontague]

143. Assuming she is winning once the voting is over, he should endorse her.

That is my take.

[geek tragedy]

151. Seems obvious. Though I have to admit I thought

Clinton would go scorched earth in 2008 after some of the really awful stuff she included in the kitchen sink strategy.

We'll see soon enough.

[Warren DeMontague]

163. Exactly. Which is why people shouldn't act like this is unprecedented.

Not to mention all the hyperbolic noise about lost respect and how dare he and yadda yadda.

Let's wait until all the voting is done, and see if he doesn't do the right thing. I think he will.

Then we'll see if the Clinton people this time around can be as all water-under-the-bridge with him as Team Obama was with her, in 2008.

[senz]

152. It's too close. She cannot win on pledged delegates alone.

I explained it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2127588

[Warren DeMontague]

162. I get it, but I also believe it is proper for the SDs to go with the person who got more votes.

actually, in a relatively proportional fashion to the percentages that the candidates received. That seems to me the most democratic way to approach it.

Short answer, if the voting is finished and she's ahead, she's won. That's how I look at it.

[senz]

165. In this case, the one who is ahead in votes

is the one who is polling increasingly poorly against Trump. Bernie stands a far better chance to beat Trump than Hillary does, so that could affect how the superdelegates decide to vote. Also, we don't know how close the totals will be after the primaries are finished. Plus, Hillary has the cloud of an FBI investigation that could result in an indictment hanging over her head. The superdelegates may very well take all of this into account.

Bernie is smart to stay in.

[Warren DeMontague]

170. Right now I'm just gonna let the voting finish.

That's where I'm at.

[senz]

171. That's cool.

[baldguy]

190. Neither can Sanders. It was never intended that the nominee win with pledged delegates alone.

You're putting a requirement on Clinton and not applying it equally to Sanders - that doesn't exist in the first place.

[senz]

221. No, I'm applying it to both equally.

The primary results so far are so close that neither candidate can reach 2383 on pledged delegates, and the superdelegates don't vote until July25.

So nobody has 2383 until the voting is done at the convention.

[aikoaiko]

145. Although I'm really digging that Bernie is making all the HRC supporters freak out

...that's not really the point.

It's really simple. He's campaigning for every vote and every delegate and making his pitch to the super delegates.

It's near impossible for this to work, but it is permissible. It won't hurt HRC. Allowing Bernie to have full access to the nomination process speaks well for us. HRC has already made Trump her focus.

What's the harm and letting this play out to its inevitable conclusion?

[geek tragedy]

147. For one it means no convention speech for him

For another, we saw the freak show in Nevada. His people will raise hell and claim corruption and that the convention was rigged, etc.

Third, it's immoral for a Democrat to try to disenfranchise other Democrats, even if that attempt is laughably weak.

[aikoaiko]

158. I would think HRC would not want Bernie to speak

There is often some drama at national conventions. It's not a big deal. As long as Bernie delegates are treated respectfully it will be OK.

I understand the disenfranchising thing with the SD but I think he's being clever by showing HRC the dangers of allowing SD.

HRC loved suprdelefate authority to declare before a single primary (and 400+ did) but now they see the problem with their potential to go against the majority of voters.

Either way I think it will work out fine.

[geek tragedy]

160. If he wants to bash Trump and promote Hilkary then he should

get a slot. If his purpose is to try to undermine her, nope.

[aikoaiko]

161. Well I think if Betnie speaks it will be supportive of HRC but

Not necessarily the usual nominee love fest or self-promotion for the next election cycle

He has already pubically recognized Trump as a dangerous buffoon and will support the nominee, but I would expect Bernie to also say some challenging things about the party.

[Lord Magus]

148. If that's the case then he's lying to his supporters about taking it to the convention.

Or if he really does intend to take it to the convention, no. Just no. He doesn't get to dictate that the Democratic Party wait an extra month & a half to start the general election campaign.

[BreakfastClub]

149. Bernie lies to his supporters all the time. Tax returns he said he was releasing, dishonest

claims of vote rigging, saying sd's are undemocratic and then doing a 180 and saying he wants them to overturn the vote, etc. I hope this is just another ones of his lies.

[Warren DeMontague]

164. I thought you guys liked it when politicians "evolve"

Maybe he'll evolve once all the primaries have ended and we've all had a chance to vote.

I thought that was a mark of character?

[baldguy]

191. He's not evolving so much as grasping at straws.

It's a mark of a lack of character.

[Warren DeMontague]

222. whatever.

We'll see what happens, won't we.

ETA: it's funny to see what the crowd that gives voting for the IWR and "marrigae is a sacred bond between a man and a woman" a pass, considers a qualification for a lack of character.

[aikoaiko]

155. I think we had to understand what taking it to the convention means.

I don't think Bernie is going to burn it down.

I think he's fighting for a liberal cause and wants to do it justice by fighting until the end.

Obviously HRC has already stated to full out slam Trumo and she will be considered the presumptive nominee very soon.

[senz]

150. Bernie is telling the truth.

A candidate must win 2,383 delegates at the national convention in order to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

As of 5/31/16, Hillary Clinton had 1770 pledged delegates and Bernie Sanders had 1500 pledged delegates.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/

Hillary needs 613 more delegates to reach 2383. There are only 781 pledged delegates left in the remaining nine primaries: Virgin Islands, PR, CA Mont NJ, NM, ND SD, DC

Because the candidates' totals are so close, it is extremely unlikely that either candidate can reach 2383 pledged delegates from the primaries alone.

The remainder will have to be supplied by superdelegates. The superdelegates do not vote until July 25.

Therefore, we will not have a nominee until the superdelegates vote on July 25th.

Those are the rules.

Bernie has every right to stay in the race and millions of his supporters want him to stay in.

[Lil Missy]

154. His "play pretend" schtick is getting old and tiresome.

[geek tragedy]

156. Part of me hopes he does go through with his threats

because that means his entire legacy goes up in smoke.

[Lil Missy]

227. It already HAS gone up in smoke. He's making an ass of himself now. n/t

[MFM008]

168. Here to help anyone who has trouble with numbers

abut HRC delegates.

[B Calm]

169. As long as my candidate is still in the race and neither candidate has the required

amount of delegates according to the rules to be declared the winner, I will support my candidate in the contested convention. That's the way it is, deal with it!

[Demsrule86]

179. You candidate is out on Tuesday

Hillary becomes the presumptive nominee...at the convention, she becomes the nominee officially.

[geek tragedy]

195. That's nice. She's still going to declare victory and take over the

DNC next week.

[ucrdem]

172. geek tragedy you gave me some good advice back when this started

namely that Bernie doesn't need to do anything but what he thinks he needs to do. Having listened to and shaken hands with a beaming Bill Clinton a few hours ago I am pretty certain that California is in the bag for Hillary and that means there's little Sanders can do to change the outcome of this election including a 3rd party run if he thinks he needs to do that. It won't end well for him but it won't change what happens in November much at all.

[bvf]

177. Why is it that the more seemingly certain

some people are of the outcome, the louder the protestations to that very effect become?

Something very weird in all of that, as if they were either still trying to convince themselves, or that they were simply afraid of the dark, and this were a way of constantly fumbling for the light switch.

There is no nominee until the convention. Insist away to the contrary all you like. It's as amusing now to see as it was before South Carolina. The added urgency is just icing.

[Demsrule86]

178. Sorry Sanders

You don't get to decide. Now take a deep breath and repeat after me," I concede" .

[baldguy]

181. Sanders is now the Black Knight

[R B Garr]

192. Meet the Press: Sanders looks small

That's the kind of press he'll be getting now. It's going to look like desperation when he tries to keep himself in the picture after the two primary candidates have already moved on to the general. Meet the Press is right: he looks small.

[geek tragedy]

207. is there a video link or transcript? nt

[R B Garr]

210. Not sure yet. I'm West Coast, and MSNBC is replaying MtP at 11:00 a.m. my time.

My normal NBC channel is playing Gymnastics and didn't have the usual 8:00 a.m. showing, but I caught the tail-end of the earlier showing when I heard that. So it's at the end of the program. I'll try to look for it.

[R B Garr]

212. Here is a link, but it's to the entire show. It's towards the last 3 minutes

from Lanhee Chen. Someone else also lamented about the populist candidate wanting to overturn the will of the people. Chuck Todd says, "I know. You just can't make this up."

http://www.nbc.com/meet-the-press/video/meet-the-press-june-5-2016/3045540

[MineralMan]

193. Voters don't count! Only wishes do!

I'm sorry to hear Senator Sanders say such things. It's a sad day in US politics, I think.

[Maven]

197. He's apparently intent on helping Trump win

At one point I was torn between him and Hillary. Now I'm done with him.

[rock]

214. "We'll beat Trump without him."

I do believe that's true. Although we need a large majority of the Bernie supporters, apparently we have 80% (or higher) of them acting like adults and will vote for the Democratic candidate. That plus the reputed 25% of Republicans that say they prefer Hillary to Trump make it sound like a pretty good bet!

[Surya Gayatri]

225. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting.

We'll beat Trump without him.

[RandySF]

228. I don't care what he says.

[anotherproletariat]

236. He's really milking his last few days of having a traveling press corps...isn't he?

Soon...oh so soon, he will fade into obscurity. With a very damaged legacy.

[geek tragedy]

238. Another 6 weeks of finger wagging nt