Attempting to force us not to count supers until the convention is pointless

[bravenak]

Supers have beed added in as they declare since we started having supers. Running aroung angry and outraged that we count them as they declare and trying to force us to stop seems a bit authoritarian.

No matter how many times you say "SUPERS DON'T COUNT UNTIL THE CONVENTION!!11!", it will have absolutely no effect on how we democrats or the news media counts delegates. Unless you have some evidence that ANY of the supers plan on flipping, then you have no POINT. I see no EVIDENCE that any of the superdelegates are swayed by the losing campaign.

So... The number is 2383, and we get there by a combination of both pleged and super delegates. Hillary has fewer than 70 to go now that she won the US Virgin Islands. Yay!

[DURHAM D]

1. God gave us math for a reason. nt

[bravenak]

2. I wish we all used the same version

[PowerToThePeople]

10. Me too.

1,769 Hillary 54.3%
1,501 Sanders 45.7%

So, Hillary is ahead by a decent percentage but Sanders has VERY strong support all things considered.

[bravenak]

11. A win is a win

Supers count now and I'm adding them in. Just like the media will when they play the music and start callin her the 'presumptive nominee'. And no more attention to the other candidate will be given

[PowerToThePeople]

14. You can do what ever you want

I will vote for Sanders in November.

[bravenak]

18. Have fun with that!

[GulfCoast66]

40. Better bring a pen along

[bkkyosemite]

3. The DNC says to NOT COUNT them in.

[bravenak]

4. I do not CARE what they say

They were probably forced into it

[bkkyosemite]

47. ..........................Your a dem and don't care what they say

[bravenak]

50. I rarely care what people say somebody said

[bkkyosemite]

57. Uh the guy from the DNC was on CNN I saw his words come out of his mouth..yes indeed.

[bravenak]

60. So what?!?!

[onenote]

69. I haven't seen a lot of folks on the Sanders side bowing down to the DNC until now

Funny how that works

[betsuni]

75. Yes. It used to be the dreaded Establishment.

Suddenly it's "I'm following instructions from the DNC." Talk about "weathervanes."

[George II]

77. One DNC member expressing his personal opinion.

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. You can count whatever the hell you want. It will go down the way it goes down.

Count to your heart's content.

Then count again tomorrow.

Count right up until the day the delegates are counted on the floor of the convention. Then count again if you want.

[bravenak]

6. Ok. The media will call it on Tuesday and everyone will treat her as the nominee

Regardless of the anger and outrage of some participants in the primary

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. Fuck the media. This I can guarantee...

The media isn't driving events here.

Keep counting.

[bravenak]

13. 2383, Tuesday

[LuvLoogie]

46. It's not the media. Blame Euclid and Archimedes if you want.

By the time Philly is done counting, Hillary will need about 150 to 160 pledged delegates to get to 2026. That's about 31 to 34 % of the California allocation of pledged delegates and not counting anything she may get from Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Mexico and DC.

Hillary will reach the finish line on Tuesday. Bernie will never get there. The convention is the winner's circle. He'll keep running, but the race will have been over.

[floriduck]

30. That will likely happen. And then it's off to the convention to make it official.

[bravenak]

37. Yes. I hope the convention is fruitful and all get to have their say

[GulfCoast66]

42. So will the President

And the rest of the Super Delegates.

[bravenak]

43. Agreed

[bkkyosemite]

49. It not "some".........it's a revolution of millions of people who will have a lot to say.

[bravenak]

54. And we have millions MORE and will have MORE SAY

[bkkyosemite]

56. Have some more koolaid...lol

[bravenak]

59. Umm hmm

[Live and Learn]

7. +1000 nt

[BootinUp]

8. K & R - Agreed.

[bravenak]

21. You are ALWAYS reasonable. I wish more here were like you.

[George II]

12. What I don't understand is that we've been hearing for months that the superdelegates should...

....vote with the people of their states, and vote for the winner of the popular vote in their states.

So, with Clinton obviously having won the most pledged delegates (via WINS in the states), how could the Sanders campaign and followers NOT believe that the superdelegates should now vote with the people?

Simply put - Clinton has more than HALF of the pledged delegates, using Sanders' "rules" she should get more than HALF of the superdelegates. How does >50% plus >50% not equal >50%?

PS - it's looking like Clinton may have won all SEVEN of the Virgin Island delegates since Sanders may not have reached 15%.

[bravenak]

16. It just a pretzel making factory around here

The rules change upon the whims of the revolution. It's boring as hell to try to keep up with.

[George II]

19. Even Isaac Newton's head would spin with all these new rules of mathematics. And he's the one...

....who devised calculus.

[bravenak]

20. No shit

[GulfCoast66]

44. Hey

That is very Anglo-centric of you😉. I remember there was a German guy who published it as well but gets forgotten. Except in Germany.

Otherwise I totally great with your post.

[jfern]

15. Keep up your posts, Bernie or Bust is stronger every day!

[bravenak]

17. Glad that soon the busters will not be allowed to post that nonsense here

[jfern]

22. Your posts will continue to make the movement stronger

People like you are driving many out of the party.

[bravenak]

24. I find the idea that the 'movement' obsesses about my posts strange, to say the least

[betsuni]

45. Your posts make the movement stronger!

Now, didn't everyone immediately think "stronger BM (Bravenak Movement)"? Am I the only immature one?

[bravenak]

48. Ha!

Anybody having bowel troubles should think of me, and be strong!

Weird days at du

[lunamagica]

31. Wow. Bravenak sure is powerful!

[GulfCoast66]

53. Holy cow! Your post

Proves the emotionalism that is so much of the Sander's campaign. Think about it, you just admitted that an anonymous person who you will never meet posting on a public forum effects who you vote for. Because he was mean to you.

I am serious, think about it. Turn off your anger and ask yourself, "why does someone I don't know posting on this website affect my vote?"

I know you will take this as an attack. And admittedly I did not grow up in the digital age, but the idea that someone on here can even make you mad is confusing to me. You just told us that people's action here can manipulate your actions.

Just saying.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

64. +1 nt

[GulfCoast66]

71. Unfortunately

You stating that people posting here can also effect your vote is posted here for all to see.

And your post proves my point. The only place I have read that Bernie is attacking based on sexism and racism is here. Perhaps I missed something and if you show me where Hillary said such I will apologize. Otherwise it is confined to websites which proves my point that what happens here affects your vote.

And sure as shit many of his supporters are posting sexist and racist stuff. But I do not put that on Bernie. I like him but think he is naïve, can't work with others and cannot win.

[jfern]

74. Oh come on, the whole freaking attacks on Bernie

People like bravenak pushed hard with saying that Bernie had a race or gender problem, and that Bernie's supporters are all white males. POC for Bernie were told they must be white. David Brock was pushing this shit hard. It's a terrible campaign that deserves to go down in flames.

[betsuni]

78. "People like bravenak pushed hard ... saying that Bernie had a race or gender problem."

And "David Brock was pushing this shit hard." These endless accusations of DUers being paid shills better end after the 16th.

[bravenak]

79. You would think I was the reason he lost by all these accusations

[Henhouse]

81. lol...good work..

[GulfCoast66]

80. I do not disagree

That people here are saying that stuff. And the first thing you do is bring up a poster here. I am not criticizing your vote. I just find it amazing what happens on this website can affect it. And you have repeatedly said that this place affects your vote. That tells me that emotion is driving your decision-making. So Bravenak got under your skin. She has been here for way longer than I have been lurking. And this is my point 'why do you care what she says or thinks?'

Just like Bernie supporters here have said racist and sexist things. But that has no effect on me emotionally nor my vote.I do not know them nor care what they think.

And this whole David Brock thing. When things go down the drain and you're losing it is always tempting to create a bogeyman to blame. It relieves you from admitting your side just lost.

I have been where you are now and I'm old enough to realize that if my candidate wins half the time I am doing good.

Please do not think I am attacking you. I respect your opinion and your right to vote for who you want. But I worry that the online generation gets so sucked into what happens here they forget that this community is minuscule.

I hope you have a nice evening

[politicaljunkie41910]

73. Thanks for saying that. I'm just sitting here shaking my head in disbelief as well.

The thought that people can get all worked up over what anonymous people say and continue to engage just boggles the mind. I'm waiting for someone to invent the smilie with a broken blood vessel in the head which represents that someone just had a stroke because of something someone they don't even know said. Some people need to know when to step away from the keyboard. I admit that I've been inclined to respond snarky with snarky, but if I ever go beyond that initial response, I hoping my keyboard will blow a fuse before my brain does. And I hope someone here will hold me to that. It's just not worth it.

[GulfCoast66]

82. I think(hope) age helps

If this internet stuff had been around when I was a kid, I guess I would have lived it. But once you start losing people you love things get put into perspective. Plus I love gardening, hunting and fishing so sitting at a computer it's pretty much torture to me.

I think we are watching the Millennials see their candidate lose for the first time. They were for Obama in 08 and 12. And he easily carried the day.

But now Bernie has lost. And it is a shock to them. Get to be my age and you realize you do not win them all. It does torque me when they act like I do not see the attraction of Bernie. We all do.

But I refuse to be a person who criticizes the young. From what I can tell, give them a little experience and they will outperform my generation👍. I hire them and they work hard but hate injustice.

It is a challenge to explain dress code though😳

[bkkyosemite]

51. Have some koolaid....

[bravenak]

52. .

[Happyhippychick]

23. Be careful

You don't want to go to "super delegate jail" by counting them when you aren't supposed to!

[bravenak]

25. We will be mass incarcerated because a BUNCH OF US are just so tired of this primary

See ya in lock up!!!

[Happyhippychick]

28. Yep, you will!

[lunamagica]

26. They have always been counted...why change things now?

[bravenak]

29. I Think it's because a woman won in some ways

Others are because it is hard to lose with grace

[lunamagica]

32. I suspect it's the woman thing. I can't imagine this happening if a man was ahead with the same

numbers Hillary has

[bravenak]

35. I cannot imagine that happening, ever

But i better not play the woman card. Best to suffer in silence.

[hrmjustin]

27. I'm counting them.

[bravenak]

33. Me too, J

Me too

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Well I am not

I am following the instruction from the DNC to the media. So take that up with DWS and the DNC

[Agnosticsherbet]

36. I am happy to change the total when any Superdelegate changes his or her mind.

But I won't hold my breath.

[bravenak]

38. Me too

I am certainly prepared to adjust the totals

[highprincipleswork]

39. You all are such premature little calculators. Glad I'm not going to bed with any of you.

[bravenak]

41. Eww. Ditto.

[sheshe2]

58. I am with you girlfriend.

[bravenak]

61. People are getting strange up in here

[sheshe2]

62. I noticed that.

[Live and Learn]

55. Force you? How silly. Just correcting you so you don't look foolish. nt

[bravenak]

63. Don't worry yourself over me

[Live and Learn]

66. I can't help myself. lol nt

[SusanCalvin]

65. Me, I'm just waiting. And I don't count supers. But that's just me. nt

[bravenak]

67. That's fine. I won't try to force you to count them.

[SusanCalvin]

70. Heh. I've given up even looking at discussions much. I just wait and see. nt

[bravenak]

72. This thing will end one day. Hopefully before Jan 20 2017

[SusanCalvin]

76. That's the latest date, yeah....!

[Cha]

83. Hey thanks, brave.. What does it mean to 'clinch the nomination' when superdelegates are involved?

Summary

Anyway, I started this research 12 hours ago to answer a question for myself, so that as everyone on TV is spinning things this way and that on June 7th I have some context. What, if anything, have I learned?

First, most non-incumbent candidates have needed superdelegates to win, and the history of superdelegates has been that once a Democrat hits the magic number and becomes the nominee, superdelegates are more likely to flow to the nominee than from them.

Also, in the history of the superdelegates, they have always ended up supporting the decision of the pledged delegates, and their most important contribution has been to amplify leads of the pledged delegate winner so that they can be assured success on a first ballot, and avoid the sort of messy convention that harms a general campaign.

The major thing I’ve learned is that the press declares, and has always declared, the winner after they hit the magic number, and has done so in far more nebulous circumstances than this. Even in 1984, in which Hart won by a number of other metrics, in which the delegate count was the arbiter, and Mondale announced himself as the nominee, even with 38 percent of the popular vote to Hart’s 36 percent—even then, Hart may have claimed he still had a cunning plan, but no one begrudged Mondale the fact he was, for all intents and purposes, the nominee.

When you think about it, that simply has to happen. Things need to get done, and they need the nominee to do them. Except for Reagan in 1976, who chose a running mate after Gerald Ford was made the nominee, there aren’t a whole lot of non-nominee candidates going to the convention with their own vice president picked out. You get to do that because the numbers say you’re the nominee.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1532358

You've probably seen this.. I just saw it.

[bravenak]

84. No matter how much they scream. We are moving on.

So glad this is over.

[Cha]

86. Love your Ali sig line~

[bravenak]

87. I snagged it from somebody

It makes me feel like he's punching koolaid man Trump

[Cha]

88. Yes, and everyone else who tries

to mess with you.

[bravenak]

89. Yes

My fan club,lol
They think about me all the time

[Gothmog]

85. History is with the press on counting Super Delegates in announcing presumptive nominee

In every past contested Democratic primary, the presumptive winner was announced by the press based on super delegates. President Obama was correct in making this call and it will be appropriate for Hillayr Clinton to also make this call


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History is a good thing and Sanders does not get special treatment that is different from all past contested democratic primaries

[Adrahil]

90. At this pount, it won't really matter.

The world will move on. Sanders will become irrelevant.

[bravenak]

91. Agreed