I wonder if the Bernie or Bust movement grossly overestimates their size

[Doctor Jack]

In a few days, Clinton will pass the necessary delegate count (with superdelegates which i know only count if they support Sanders) and for most people, the democratic primary will be over. The media will move on, the democratic party will move on, the republicans will move on, the president will move on but we hear people here talking about "going all the way until the convention" or "it isn't over until the delegates vote" or "we won't have a nominee until july!". However, I do wonder if all of the Bernie Keyboard Brigade here and on Reddit are really the unstoppable juggernaut that they claim or if they are just a few people living in an echo chamber ready to rise up, when 99.999% of people have moved on with their lives. Sure, we will hear "well my brother and all of my friends say they will only support sanders" or "i live in california and i have seen tons of bernie bumper stickers" but i am willing to bet that the bernie or bust movement isn't so much a revolution but just a few people that are really, really, really loud.

[Live and Learn]

1. I don't consider myself Bernie or Bust but I will never vote for Hillary.

All most of us want is an ethical progressive to vote for.

[qdouble]

2. " I don't consider myself Bernie or Bust but I will never vote for Hillary."

"I will never vote for Hillary" = "Bernie or Bust." as Clinton will be the Democratic Nominee.

[Live and Learn]

3. Nope. I will be voting, just not for her. So there is no bust. Sorry to disappoint you. nt

[qdouble]

6. Bernie or Bust doesn't mean, "Bernie or I won't vote", it means exactly what you are saying...

which makes you part of the same group.

[Live and Learn]

7. Did you invent the term? Why do you think you get to dictate what it means?

And as I tried to explain to you, it didn't have to be Bernie, just someone i could vote for in good conscience. It won't be Trump or Hillary.

[qdouble]

10. Google "Bernie or Bust" and see that most of it's proponents are saying exactly what you are saying.

I don't see why you want to distance yourself from the Bernie supporters who are saying the exact same things you are saying.

[Live and Learn]

12. How so? I said it doesn't have to be Bernie and I will be voting. I don't see a Bernie or a bust

in there. I simply won't vote for an unethical candidate.

[qdouble]

17. "Bernie or Bust: A pledge to write-in Bernie Sanders or vote for the Green Party candidate 108,000"

"108,000+ people have taken so far. Why? Keep reading." https://citizensagainstplutocracy.wordpress.com/

If you're under the impression that Bernie or Bust means that you won't be voting, then you are mistaken.

[Live and Learn]

20. The people I know that say they are Bernie or Bust will not be voting at all.

i don't really care what pledge says. I haven't taken it and I won't be but I will not be voting for Hillary. So, then maybe your dozens are really a hell of a lot more.

[qdouble]

24. Bernie or Bust equates to "If Bernie is not the democratic nominee, then I will not be supporting

the nominee." It's really that simple. I don't know why you are twisting and turning to not acknowledge an easily understood phrase.

[MFM008]

30. oh

I hope every one works the sour apples out of their system by the June 16 deadline here in
the DU.

[Live and Learn]

33. It is called ethics and unless Hillary has a drastic change in them, I think you aare wrong. nt

[Sheepshank]

65. Fyi in this case, your presumed ethics = assisting Trump.

Others' ethics will not allow that to happen.

[itsrobert]

4. Than vote for the Supreme Court

The highest Court in the land. The next President may have 3 to replace in the next four years. I don't think Bernie is ethical with his plans that don't have any chance of passing congress and add $19 trillion in debt if they did, but I would vote for him over any republican for the court. Thank you.

[Doctor Jack]

5. For some people the world can burn

If a random senator that has done nothing while in government can't be the nominee then everyone else must suffer!

[Live and Learn]

8. Has nothing to do with Bernie. It has to do with no valid choice. nt

[msongs]

39. so you admit bernie is not a valid choice. good for you! nt

[Live and Learn]

42. Silly post. nt

[Doctor Jack]

11. I know, he had a big rally and birds like him. Make this man president!

No, make him Emperor!

[Live and Learn]

13. As opposed to the royal familes we keep electing? nt

[Doctor Jack]

14. Such drama and hyperbole

Your argument might be stronger if Sanders actually was ahead in something, like PDs or popular vote. But you want the supers to select him?

[Live and Learn]

22. Really? Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Clinton, hmmmm. nt

[Doctor Jack]

25. You name 5 presidents and 1 is a clinton

That is a sign of some corrupt dynasty? There were 2 roosevelts, those devious bastards, probably in the pockets of Goldman Sachs too!

[Live and Learn]

29. I named 4 and a possible (dubious as it might be) 5th that is a Clinton.

And yes, we have been known to elevate families in the past to royalty status. Though the Roosevelts hardly count since they were related only by marriage and their politics were quite different.

[JDPriestly]

36. Teddy Roosevelt was Eleanor's uncle, but was not all that closely related

to Franklin.

[Live and Learn]

18. Why would I trust Hillary to pick a SCOTUS? So she can pick one that ensures more private prisons

and the locking up of "super-predators"?"

[HooptieWagon]

46. She can't even be trusted to conduct her email.

I def don't trust her picking a SCOTUS.

[Demsrule86]

51. No offense, but I don't believe you

Clinton had a 93% progressive rating. She voted for the same things as Sanders. In fact, she is better on guns in my opinion. Now she is the only thing standing between us and destruction of all progress achievements since Roosevelt and the packing of the courts which would certainly end Roe V Wade. But you can't bring yourself to vote for her? Of course,Trump doesn't worry you ? That is a powerful bitter hate there. The GOP would have five court picks and the entire government. All progressive accomplishments since Roosevelt would be lost. But one man Bernie Sanders is more important than stopping that? Well, you are Bernie or bust. I am sure you will say oh...but I would vote for Biden or Elizabeth Warren...well they didn't run...so you don't have that choice. You can write in Mickey Mouse which is the same as voting for traitor green spoiler's or simply not vote. You would be helping to elect Trump. If you don't cast a vote for Hillary Clinton, you are all for purposes casting a vote for Trump. You would be better off and so would any of your kids or your grand-kids to Lend a hand and defeat the most dangerous candidate the Republicans have ever nominated -both domestically and in terms of foreign affairs... or get out of the way and let the rest of us do it. Trump with the nuclear codes is too horrifying to contemplate.

[Live and Learn]

52. LOL You are calling me a liar while supporting the candidate that said she was under sniper fire.

Forgive me for not trusting your judgement on truth telling.

[PJMcK]

54. That's disappointing

We must defeat the Republicans. Please reconsider and vote a straight Democratic ticket.

[Live and Learn]

55. Give me an ethical candidate to support. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

15. Not sure how big it is

It is not an organized group, just an idea.

Each person will make their own choice.

My choice is Bernie or Bust.

[MFM008]

32. ..........................

bust?

[Maedhros]

16. For me, it's a personal decision based upon my own values.

It has nothing to do with how many others agree or disagree.

[Demsrule86]

53. and Trump shares those values?

You can make all the excuses you want but it is bitter anger because Bernie lost...and it is bern it down.

[Hekate]

19. Los Angeles Times printed a recent California poll that bears you out

65% of Sanders supporters are willing to vote for Clinton in November
10% said they'd vote for Trump
13% won't vote

Sounds to me like 65% of Sanders supporters are Democrats and/or adults who recognize the threat Trump poses to our country.

[Doctor Jack]

21. Charlie Cook says that 65% would push clinton to a near double digit lead over trump

70% will get her to 8%-10%

[Hekate]

27. Trump is probably toast in California. Even 50+% of Republicans here are for environmental

...protections, understand the severe impact of the drought, want immigration reform ... I mean, they aren't idiots.

Interestingly enough, neither Trump nor Sanders seems capable of moderating their basic dogma to address specifically Californian realities for more than a few moments. And there's 40 million of us.

[Live and Learn]

49. 40 million that don't want Hillary? Maybe. nt

[JDPriestly]

37. Californians are far more opposed to Trump than people in other states.

That is because of his views on immigrants from Mexico and Muslims.

Hillary may develop problems in California as her stances turn rightward, and they are bound to turn rightward as she tries to move into general election mode.

In my area, Californians love Bernie. I only know my area, but it is very clear to me as I canvass, etc. that my area is very pro-Bernie.

I just stop people on the street, and they are voting for Bernie. Go house to house and the numbers for Bernie are even higher.

But I am not in a wealthy area. Hillary appeals more to wealthy people at least in California.

We shall see. Hillary reads her speeches and makes very little personal contact with audiences. She seems distant to people.

Bernie has campaigned on a national level for just over a year. Not long. If she were a strong candidate, Bernie would not have been able to gain on her as much as he has. That is the problem with Hillary.

It isn't so much about Bernie or bust as it is about whether people will feel moved to bother to vote for her.

Will Trump moderate his tone enough to make himself seem less of a threat? Will Hillary turn right and offend more Bernie supporters than she has so far?

It's going to be very tricky for Hillary to get Bernie voters to really vote for her. We shall see. I could not predict this. But I do know that the insulting behavior of many of her supporters toward Bernie supporters on the internet will not help Hillary.

[HooptieWagon]

47. How relevant is a Blue state?

The Dem candidate will win CA no matter what. The crucial states are the swing states, the half-dozen or so that went to Obama by very slim margins. If 35+% of Sanders supporters go Bernie or Bust there it'll be a bloodbath for not only Clinton but downticket Democrats also. Can the DNC afford to lose swing states like Florida by wide margins? The superdelegates might gamble on it to keep their corporate gravy train rolling.

[SFnomad]

23. The BoB'ers overestimate their size and importance ... just like the PUMAs of 2008 did n/t

[Live and Learn]

56. Be careful, many of the PUMA's are back and still supporting Hillary. Yikes, they are on your side

now.

[SFnomad]

68. They were on my side in 2008 ... until they couldn't handle the fact that Clinton didn't win

the nomination and lost their minds ... Yikes, like that group on your side this time.

[Waiting For Everyman]

26. If you aren't worried about it

why are you posting about it?

[Doctor Jack]

31. Why try to learn anything?

The planet of Jupiter doesn't cause any day to day worry to anyone on Earth, so why study it? Intellectual curiosity, trying to learn more about the things around me, etc. But if you want to live in a closed off, isolated world, then more power to you.

[Scootaloo]

28. You're a little bit obsessed aren't you?

[LibDemAlways]

34. I guess if Hillary's the nominee, we'll find out in

November.

[bjo59]

38. Well, we'll see soon enough.

I have never voted for a corporatist (except in 1992) and I am not about to start now. What anyone else does is their business.

[msongs]

40. sorry to hear you are not going to vote for MIC buddy bernie sanders. oh well nt

[BobbyDrake]

45. It doesn't make sense to say you'll never do something and then mention when you did it before.

It especially doesn't make sense to mention when you did something and then say "and I'm not about to start now." Of course you're not, because you already did.

[rjsquirrel]

41. It's a tiny number of actual voters

but oh boy are they loudmouths.

History says they won't matter.

[NurseJackie]

44. True! Loud but irrelevant.

[HooptieWagon]

48. Yet you're still butthurt over Nader.

[BobbyDrake]

43. First of all, great image to go with your post! Second of all, I don't wonder. I know they do.

When you're part of a crowd, it's too easy to start believing that your crowd is the majority, even when it most certainly is not. And that's the Sanders movement. They all gathered together, and started telling themselves, "We're just a small section of something greater," when in fact they were the collected gathering of the total sum.

And since their tactics were designed to drive away anyone who didn't already agree with them, their movement never actually got any bigger than the crowds that showed up to the rallies. And that meant not enough votes to win, more often than not.

[Sky Masterson]

50. I doubt Bernie or Busters are a solid flock/school

They are individuals who don't really care for Trump or Hillary.
Some will bite the bullet and vote for the "More Muscular foreign policy" candidate,or the Green candidate, and probably in rare instances vote nihilistic for the orange one. Many will probably just stay home.
I would be more concerned about the "I'm With Her" vote.

[Trust Buster]

57. The majority of Sanders supporters do not hang out on political forums.

The BoB crowd is not as big as they might think. Heck, look at the above posts. They run from the BoB classification. Hillary will solidify the vast majority of the Party at the convention while this BoB crowd will behave in such a fashion outside the convention hall that they will completely delegitimize themselves in the eyes of the country.

[bigwillq]

58. I am not Bernie or Bust, just anti-Hillary.

I would have been fine with pretty much any other DEM besides Clinton.
I like Bernie, but he doesn't have to be the nominee for me. I would have accepted someone else.

[Stuckinthebush]

60. It's very small

And will get smaller. This is normal in primaries. Hell, remember how many GOPers vowed to never vote Trump? Well....that went away fast. Same for Dems. 99% will vote for Hillary. At least those who would have supported Dems anyway. Some Sanders supporters would never have voted Dem regardless of the Democrat who won.

Sanders will concede and support Hillary. They will join each other on stage and smile and hug. Sanders will encourage his supporters to vote for Hillary because he knows that the alternative will destroy progressive causes for decades to come. There will be grumbling but by November the majority of never Hillary sanders supporters will be never Trump voters and will mark the box for Clinton.

[99Forever]

61. What's your point?

Who others vote for is their choice, not yours.

Think you are going to change their minds by insulting them?

The delusion runs deep in this one.

[BillZBubb]

62. Call me whatever you like. I will not vote for a corrupt, money grubbing candidate.

Others can do what their conscience dictates.

[Yurovsky]

63. "Money grubbing" is being overly polite...

but if you or I accurately label HRC's fundraising style, her loyalists will sprain their index fingers hitting the "alert" button...

[BillZBubb]

64. I think "corrupt" covers that and other things.

[Yurovsky]

66. Pretty much, it's just too bad the powerful are never held accountable...

they just continue to be rewarded for it. More money. More power.

And we just have to deal with it.

[99Forever]

67. So if the Will NOT Ever Vote for Clinton movement is so very insignificant...

... why precisely are you spending so much time and energy telling us it's so very insignificant?


Inquiring minds want to know.

[Cheese Sandwich]

69. I don't even think it is a movement.

It's a slogan. Certainly there are millions of people in that boat, but then again you need more than a few million to make an impact.

Unless it swings a few key states like Maine and Florida and stuff.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

70. Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams

[NorthCarolina]

71. Maybe, but then again

maybe NOT.