2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe White Entitlement Of Some Sanders Supporters
Killary Clinton is stealing the nomination and the system is rigged against Bernie Sanders, said the two young white guys standing behind me in line. They rambled incessantly about how she was cheating and could not be trusted. Superdelegates were their greatest frustration. Unelected delegates who could decide the nomination proved that the process was a sham that was intentionally set up to prevent Sanders from winning.
At first I tried to ignore the conversation and thought they were Trump supporters (Killary is usually a right-wing thing). But once it became clear that these guys were Sanders supporters, I had to jump in. For years, these guys had been my people. I have been a fan of Sanders long before his presidential run and have made many friends due to our mutual admiration of his policies. Surely, Id be able to have a civil, rational conversation with these guys, right?
When, I chimed in it was evident that we were speaking different languages. We agreed on most of the substantive policy issues, and I told them how I even interned for Sanders about a decade ago. We should have been able to see eye to eye, but we could not. The main source of their frustration was merely the fact that they had lost. The fact that she is ahead in the popular vote, has won more primaries and caucuses, and has earned more delegates was to them a minor nuisance. They had their absurd talking points and were unwilling to deviate into reality.
The more I reflected on them, the more I realized the key point: They felt entitled to win, and a defeat meant that someone must have cheated or that their opinions did not matter, which of course couldnt be true. They preferred to suspend reality and fabricate injustices rather than concede that Sanders has lost fair and square.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/05/the-white-entitlement-of-some-sanders-supporters.html
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)of narcissism increases. Your friends very much feel entitled. They can't be wrong in their minds. They think that they're false sense of entitlement should mean that the minority should rule over the majority. You followed Sanders for all the right reasons. They follow Sanders and make such foolish claims to compensate for their insecurities. I see this on the far Right all the time.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)The uncritical belief in conspiracies is another one.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)personalities, it's the personality that leads to the policy instead of the policy attracting the personality.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)that's it exactly.
Thanks for posting.
Sid
PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)shawn703
(2,702 posts)I'm sure it was "white entitlement" that caused Hillary to lose to Obama in '08 rather than people just wanting to support the candidate further to the left.
JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)At The Daily Beast. Just as you have an opinion.
I served on the jury for the op a few minutes ago and voted to leave it.
This is why. . . Your post.
Discussion is necessary - not censorship of ideas and opinions.
I may not agree with you - but I applaud you for addressing the issue instead of trying to pretend the opinion doesn't exist and the article was never published at The Daily Beast.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)it was Clinton supporters (PUMAs) acting like whiny white privileged jerks.
Worked out real good for them huh?
8 years later, stir in some misogyny and campus left naïveté and vanguardism and those same white privileged elements animate the Sanders die hards.
It's been obvious to some of us all along that the Sanders campaign (I used to exempt Sanders himself, but no longer) is fueled by white privileged and supercharged by misogyny. If y'all were facing Obama (who was hardly "left" in the same way Sanders is and who favored a smarter but still neoconservative foreign policy -- don't you guys hate him now anyway?) you'd be doing the same foot dragging whiny dance.
This isn't about who's more "left" anymore. Some of us recognize America is a diverse country and that Hillary's liberal centrism captures a much wider swath of American public opinion.
Some of us includes 3 million more actual democratic primary voters. So there's that.
shawn703
(2,702 posts)are now people who decided they can't stand her this time, because white entitlement?
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Sanders supporters.
A certain type gets off on remaining perpetually angry and outraged. They will attach to whichever campaign appeals to their contrarianism.
Of course since many PUMAs were justifiably angry about the misogyny directed at HRC by Obama supporters at the time (I was an Obama supporter but this is just true, unfortunately it led many PUMAs to launch racist attacks at Obama) they are now happy to support our soon to be nominee and just as annoyed by the even worse misogyny coming from the Sanders camp.
Sore losers gonna sore lose.
PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)than actually occurred within the Sanders camp.
The drum beat of negativity is a very successful political tactic amplified by cherry picking the ways we communicate.
One "knows" there is misogyny (and sexism and racism) from Sanders without ever listening to Sanders or going to a Sanders event.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)It's a constant tone of misogyny, right from the start, in language about "coronations" and "Hillary the queen" just for a start.
She has been attacked and demeaned in ways no male politician is, for decades now, and Sanders supporters have kept it up.
And then there's the awful and overtly sexist language used against women in the party establishment, DWS and Barbara Boxer to name just two.
It's not dissimilar to the implicit racism of remarks about how (heavily black) dem primary voters in the "deep south" don't count as much as (or are less well informed than) white voters in the mountain west, or a certain tone deafness to civil rights issues that can't be linked to income inequality.
If you don't see it, you're part of the problem. My wife started out considering Bernie (and I started out supporting him). Now she finds his campaign so blatantly misogynist in tone she has turned completely against Bernie (as have I, for this and other reasons including having a few daughters).
PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)and identified by confirmation bias and cherry picked and amplified to further what I already said.
My point was that Clinton et al repeat these smears daily based upon rare or non-existent events or where similar events are in Clinton's campaign or history.
The constant tone is not from Sanders or his campaign but from those that use the media to label Sanders as such.
The same things could be said of the Hillary Clinton side of the equation. I never said Sanders et al are perfect. What I do say is that misogyny (and sexism and racism) are not the soul of Sanders or his supporters. Politics can be all about false attribution and the Hillary Clinton campaigns in 2008 and 2016 are prime examples. You can not see it because you would have to face somethin g unpleasant about yourself and people like you. I am not saying both sides don't use this technique, it is common in politics.
I always use the term Hillary Clinton then followed by Clinton when writing and never identify a pol by first name nor smear name.
I have called Hillary Clinton a neo-liberal and a neo-conservative because Clinton supports those economical and political methods and philosophies.
Once I had a post hidden because I did call Hillary Clinton a psychopath as the title to a post that contained the "Libya We came He died" video and also in the body said Hillary Clinton reminded me of Richard Nixon which is a true statement.
I am not part of the problem. I am sincere.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Despite what we hear from the Left about Obama and Clinton both being "Republican-Lite," what made Sanders hesitate against Obama but not against Clinton?
I wonder...
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)most of the groups that were the Obama coalition. It's interesting that you only recognize white college kids as Obama voters. It's also interesting that you don't acknowledge that Sanders is getting the anti Obama vote and has two prominent spokespersons who are virulently anti Obama in Sarandon and West.
shawn703
(2,702 posts)Where?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun Jun 5, 2016, 06:38 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
The White Entitlement Of Some Sanders Supporters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512127843
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accusing Sanders supporters of white privlidge. Give me a break. This article is a propaganda hatchet job.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 5, 2016, 06:43 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
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Explanation: Alerter - Please address this on the thread. This an article that is on the Daily Beast - not known to be a Right Wing News Source. If you want the opinion suppressed your issue is with The Daily Beast. That is the news source you have an issue with.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Explanation: wow - someone actually alerted this???
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)It was a difficult first read with the skipping wtf record playing in my head over the alert.
Stuckinthebush
(10,836 posts)I guess if it offends even I'm the slightest it should be hidden. Thin skinned comes to mind.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Enforcing the ToS? Ha! As if.
Stuckinthebush
(10,836 posts)But not much longer!
JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Not to mention "spoiled and entitled".
SpareribSP
(325 posts)Under-45s in California, a fairly diverse state, are voting 66% Sanders. Also I read a while back that a majority of black people 30 and under voted for Bernie. This sort of divisive us-versus-them stuff is really ugly though, regardless.
"If youre young, white and privileged, you dont expect to lose. When you do, it must be because you got cheated. Blacks know better." This is a ridiculously broad-brush statement about eight ways over. It's just fanning the flames of these various conflicts. I hope this sort of post is banned later, because it's about as unifying as punching someone in the face and yelling "RIOT!"
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)The thing is, though, is that eight years after the last major election on our side, the social media aspect has changed significantly and there are far more voices and data points out there from which to paint with the brush.
You see far more instances of what the original author is describing now. Some of it is just plain trolling, some of it is authentic, some of it is bandwagonism.
But within it there are kernels of truth that need to be examined as opposed to hidden and ignored and denied. That's how we as a party move forward.
SpareribSP
(325 posts)If you saw a young, white male who was a strong fan of Bernie Sanders, would your mind start taking shortcuts now to thinking that he's entitled, violent, sexist? This is otherizing. It sets up a narrative that allows for endless attacks. You see it all over DU.
Some questions to ask that aren't present are why Sanders was supported in the first place, and why they're so upset with Hillary now. Perhaps also some introspection as to why accusations of cheating stick to Hillary would be useful too. Not condoning it, just it's worth thinking about.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... seen no polls here recently
That's why the overwhelming vote for Sanders is white male
SpareribSP
(325 posts)First, PoC doesn't mean "Black People". If you take in the votes of other minorities then my statement is obviously correct - he did very well in some minority demographics, especially with younger people.
If you're just talking about black people, I believe those numbers are still about the same now with Bernie a bit ahead, but I can't find it. Remember Erica Garner being endorsing Bernie, but her mom endorsing Hillary? Similar things are happening everywhere. There's a generational divide.
gordianot
(15,233 posts)What do you call the behavior of a former Secretary of State who essentially made her own rules places her employees in legal and ethical jeapordy and expects to skate free of any legal repercussions, criticism or even minimal responsibility?
Don't you wish you could get $250,000 a pop for who knows 30 minutes of work with the ultimate institution of white entitlement Wall Street.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... the system the long shot black guy won with in 08 is rigged against the older, white skinned, well off, heterosexual, male now?
The article is about white male privilege and it showing in the entitlement of saying the system is rigged when there's little doubt HRC whooped Sanders ass fair and square especially seeing his team OPENLY claimed they didn't compete in the "southern states"
come back
tia
gordianot
(15,233 posts)Looks like you accept that white privilege whole hearted with some excuses heap those privileges on just a little.
I am sure every door has been open to Mr. Sanders his entire life due to the melanin content in his skin.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Especially one who has represented Wall Street so well.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)behaves as a "queen" who thinks "it's her turn" to be as tone deaf as most of the other stuff coming from Sanders supporters during this election.
LisaM
(27,794 posts)I try to ignore it, but I don't like it. Hillary works very hard, she takes nothing for granted, despite this sour narrative. I do chuckle when people misuse the word "coronate". It shows intellectual laziness.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)The party didn't want any type of real primary.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... establishment in America rarely want to acknowledge the accomplishments of the others
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)black people aren't the problem and that she should be talking to white people about racism. Funny how you left that out.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)But two white dudes in a bar complain about the system, and that's what's worthy of your time and words. Tells me a lot about your priorities.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)You took a quote out of context and are now attempting to paper over it.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)Honestly, it was embarrassing. He has no interest in issues that affect women or people of color.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Ignorance is bliss
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)Only Black people are poor of course ...right Bernie?
"When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto. You don't know what it's like to be poor. You don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car," Sanders said at the debate.
Quote by Bernie Sanders
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/bernie-sanders-attempts-clarify-ghetto-comment-n533466
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Plus, taking any meaningful conversation out of context! There's THAT, too!
Response to chascarrillo (Reply #25)
Name removed Message auto-removed
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)I do.
These days, though... Not so much of that going on among those who call themselves "progressive" but act more like fringe conservatives.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)worthy of noting???? ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... team admitted twice that they didn't compete in the "southern states"
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)Come back when you write coherent English.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)So nothing unusual for this election cycle.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Another thing I see Sanders supporters to do often is diminish anyone who disagrees with them and portray them as devious mouthpieces doing their masters bidding. To all but the most ardent Bernie supporters that comes off as insulting and dismissive.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Nice touch!
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Why use this dismissive conservative term whenever race enters any discussion?
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)You entered this discussion based on terms of race... You're so smart, you figure it out.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)It conservative speck for "shut up".
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)the FBI is a right-wing think tank.
Pretty much tells you all you need to know about the Team Hillary mindset.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... people out to check their racial progressiveness meter again.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Is not a "fact" of this story. It it a personal opinion that is used to create a division along racial lines.
That to me sounds like the textbook definition of racism.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... its Sanders himself calling the system the long show black guy won with in 08 "rigged"
Bullshit, he just got his ass kicked by 3 million votes mostly cause his dumb ass'd team decided not to compete in the "southern states" by their own admission.
He shouldn't call the system rigged, he should call this race for HRC and get on with getting her a progressive congress
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Then they attacked his character. He went from 25% to 49%.
Now they're reduced to attacking his supporters. Pathetic.
All while demanding that Sanders supporters vote for Clinton in the general. People seem to look at this as winning and nothing else. It's sad, really. The Clinton supporters feel entitled because they voted for Obama and now it's their turn. White privilege is a tool of ignorance and most people that use that tool are usually the ones that benefit from it most of all. Any chance of voting for Hillary are diminishing quickly because of the entitled attitude of her supporters.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)... who has issues with anything the other candidate might have to say against his HRC race-centric cheerleading, according to his Daily Beast "articles". I would more rightfully deem him the proverbial door knob for Hillary's David Brock, who already had no problem throwing Bill Clinton under the bus. These people sure are "special"!
Here are some of his Beast touted "articles"...
"When White People Have to Face Defeat"
"How Hillary Can Boost Black Turnout"
"Hillary's Secret Turnout Ally: BLM"
"The Berniacs Who Want to Watch it All Burn"
"How to Accept Hillary As a Bernie Fan"
"Why Black Celeb Endorsements Matter Most"
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)How Hillary Let Down #BlackLivesMatter
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/18/how-hillary-let-down-blacklivesmatter.html
Hillary Clintons Tone-Deaf Racial Pandering
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/29/hillary-clinton-s-tone-deaf-racial-pandering.html
Maybe,just maybe,every article against Bernie isn't a conspiracy using puppets of the Clinton machine. Maybe this writer's opinions are nuanced and a true reflection of his thoughts on race.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)For example, the tone-deaf racial pandering leads the reader into a "mia culpa" in the way both Sanders and Clinton started out awkwardly to the black community, more so with Clinton's more numerous examples of "Hispandering". The article ends with -
Despite being popular among Latino and African-American voters, Clinton still needs to solidify her support amongst these electorates. To do so, she will need to navigate a fairly uncharted terrain of cultural sensitivity, awareness, and respect that is new to American politics. (The GOP does not even dare to venture into this territory.) If more of Clintons outreach attempts seem tone deaf or overly reliant on her previous successes than her present rapport with todays voters, it will be difficult for her to shake the image of being out of touch.
Which strikes Clinton with a feather as to how she should proceed if she's ever to "shake" this image.
He's still a door knob, and the point was made before you cherry-picked your own examples.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Of course if you did you wouldn't be supporting Hillary.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)have exhibited no sense of entitlement at all.
glowing
(12,233 posts)provides the very basics of life, as in clean air/ water/ food, housing, education, and health care, as people who are "privileged". How does one equate Sander's positions as "white privilege"? Shouldn't you be excited that younger white males are actively cheering for changes in our judicial/ incarceration system, cheering for universal healthcare, access to quality education regardless of your zip code or your parents/ self's income, excited to hear them cheer for equality for LGBT, excited to hear them cheer for paid maternity leave/ quality child care, equalizing women/ men pay?
AND I'm sorry, I know people who support Clinton call out Sander's people CT regarding the voting suppression, wild results regarding exit poling and voting machines, the DNC and establishment Democrats actively pursuing an agenda against progressive politics, but I really think it's harder to NOT see it, than to actually see it happening. To many of us, the wool has been pulled out of our eyes. The Democrats who campaign in favor of the people and say the Republicans are at fault for not gaining these many needed items for our country, have been shown to be complete frauds. They are beholden to the corporations. AND even more telling, they are actively holding up a candidate that is under FBI investigation. Seriously, that's our litmus test? A little bit better than Donald Trump? 4 to 8 more years of crappy wages, war in the ME, a bloated military budget literally starving our children in the streets of America, costlier higher education, increases in insurance till the point everyone is having to pay the taxation fee because they cannot afford the ACA costs, and an increase in wild weather that causes costly re-building and displacement...
Capitalism as we have been experiencing, especially since Reagan years, is DEAD!! OR desperately needs to die. It should have died with communism. There is no need for a handful of wealthy/ powerful few to rule the world. There is no reason for anyone in any country to be working like a slave for someone else to profit. There is no reason to poison our earth or ourselves with chemicals and pollutants when we know how to do these things in a manner that won't harm everything around us. Fracking, seriously, its something that Cheney got started and Democrats love to take money for, and is more harmful than running coal fired factories.. and its not necessary when we have solar and wind and geo-thermal. There's no reason we are 30 to 40 yrs behind in providing our citizens quality, usable public transportation. There's no reason for people to be working more than 30 hrs a week or having 5 to 6 wks of vacation/ time off, or maternity/ paternity leave, or reasonable/ affordable/ safe housing, access to education, access to Drs when one is sick... There is no reason to struggle so, leave so much work we all see that needs to be done, left unattended, to continue to hear "we can't". We put a man on the damned moon, of course we can.
4-8 more yrs of "we can't", isn't what many people 40 and younger want to hear... In another 8 yrs, many of us will be looking at 50, lucky to have a job at McDonald's or Walmart, making shitty wages and wondering, how the fuck do we ever retire, we can't even afford to take a vacation OR to send our children to college... Is this the world anyone wants to live in? I think many people supporting Sander's are a bit more awake and if he doesn't win the white house, are prepared to stay engaged and push out those "we can't", corporate establishment Dems, for a future that says, "Yes, We Can"....
But keep calling a more socialistic model of govt "white entitlement"... that really goes over so well with 40 and under crowd.. BTW, we are the generations that, for the most part, accept people for who they are, date inter-racially and cross gender with complete ease. We have no problem with our boss' if they are male or female, for the most part (we only care if they are tyrannical assholes or if they are good work leaders). We recognize that we are destroying our planet and want the issue tackled like we did the moon project or building a destructive bomb. AND I'm on the upper side of the age numbers. I'm 37. I worry about living in this country actually inhibiting my children's life and what they can hope to accomplish vs their counter parts in other countries around the world. We are global now; we and they are competing in a big world. A child living in Germany is going to have a massive, massive advantage over my son regarding education, health care, even quality of food and expectations of pay for work and "down time" for family and friends. AND because of the internet and globalization, its something we all easily see and know its because our politicians are bought off that we "can't" have these things. We also know who is funding Clinton. Wall St, banks, and MIC... What do you expect you are going to get from her progressive wise? She doesn't even support $15.00 min wage (and that's still to little to actually live off of in America; it barely pays the rent on a single apt, let alone if you are a single working mom trying to raise a kid or two). For what I can see, she's a woman candidate that does nothing for women regarding policy other than look politically correct on a national stage.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)nominated
PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)I agree that there is a white entitlement wing (and those spellbound) of the Democratic party but they are not in general supporters of Sanders.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Sweeping generalizations about white Bernie supporters based on one conversation with 2 guys. Detailing their failings due to white privilege.
It's hard for me to imagine this would be published in 2016 if it was a white guy telling black people how to be gracious winners, explaining their failings due to black deprivation.
If you read the article, he links to a letter sent to the Atlantic from a Bernie supporter now tempted to vote for Trump. Here are some quotes the DailyBeast doesn't include, some explanation of why a lefty Occupier would even think of voting for Trump:
http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/05/why-one-bernie-sanders-supporter-is-tempted-to-vote-donald-trump/484841/
I do think a sort of white tribalization has something to do with it,
though it isnt all tribalization; class appeals are part of it as
well. I can remember the first time I was spat on in an activist
meeting, sometime after Occupy. I hadnt said much of anything, but I have always been an independent thinker and follow my own analysis, something of an idiosyncratic Marxism typically, and it was just for being white and male and not agreeing with whatever the speaker had said. I was privileged.
I didnt make too much of it at the time, as there are always some unpleasant people you end up dealing with while doing activism, but I started noticing more and more of this over the next few years. I was not the only one. Most of my old circle of activist contacts dropped out one by one. Then I dropped out, quit Facebook and social media. It felt like such a relief; things had become so toxic.
Since then, I have been extensively re-evaluating my politics, and I
know there are many others doing the same thing. A left which is
focused on issues of identity and excludes issues of class (it was class issues which drew me to the left years ago) is no friend of mine, and it is no friend of the working class. And if it is all going to be tribal politics, then well, I guess you have to go with your own tribeif not for your sake, then for the sake of your kids.
Trump as a person seems despicable. But he also seems strong. And he
listens to the popular will. He is against many things that I, as a
leftist, have protested over the years, such as NATO, international
trade agreements, and foreign wars. I feel like the corporate
globalization of the 25+ years has just ripped a hole through this
country, especially in the Midwest where I am from. Clinton will just
continue this and Trump seems like someone who wants it to stop.