With Hillary only 28 delegates away from clinching the nomination, Bernie demands

[pnwmom]

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:20 PM - Edit history (3)

the Associated Press overturn 32 years of precedent and NOT call the race on Tuesday, when Hillary wins the majority of all delegates – pledged and super.

The "presumptive nominee" shouldn't celebrate with a victory speech, either -- that would be so presumptuous. How dare she?!

He insists on a brand new practice – just in time for his race against the first women ever to get this far – that the AP and the rest of the media shouldn’t call the winner till after the first vote at the convention.

How convenient.

But not a surprise. This is what happens when a woman stands on the edge of change. Some man tries to block her.

So Bernie has announced he wants several more weeks to try to rip the nomination away from Hillary, by appealing to unelected super delegates. The same super delegates he claims are part of a “rigged system.”

He thinks this is fair even though by Tuesday Hillary will also have a majority of all pledged delegates – the ones chosen by the voters.

Even though she is millions of votes ahead.

Even though there is no chance that hundreds of super delegates and pledged delegates will decide to flip to him, denying the nomination to the woman who has received millions more votes than he has, from a diverse coalition of voters across the country.

The first woman to win the Democratic nomination in history – and her diverse supporters -- should not and will not be treated with such disrespect. Not by the AP, at least.

Time will tell, with Bernie.

The DailyKos diary below traces how, in every election since 1984, when super delegates were first introduced, the winner has been called when he reached a simple majority of all delegates combined – pledged delegates and supers.

According to the AP, Hillary is now only 28 delegates away from this milestone.

https://interactives.ap.org/2016/delegate-tracker/

But Bernie wants to overturn the precedent, just for her.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1532358

What does it mean to 'clinch the nomination' when superdelegates are involved?

May 29, 2016

After reading a number of impassioned defenses of why the Democratic presidential nomination should not be called next week on June 7th, I got curious. What’s the history here, since the superdelegates were added to the process? When a Democratic candidate hits the magic number of pledged delegates plus superdelegates, are they the nominee?

The answer: history says the first person to get to the magic number is the presumptive nominee, and says it unambiguously, even if the losers often disagree.

Here’s how it has gone since the superdelegates were added to the process.

Mondale / Hart / Jackson (1984)

[NurseJackie]

2. Not I.

[Hortensis]

133. He has a point--for another

Election where one candidate did NOT have

1. The MAJORITY of the vote AND
2. The pledged delegates needed for nomination.

(Hillary also just happens to have 100s of pledged delegates but doesn't need them.)

But in 2016 Bernie will not be able to overset democracy by setting it aside.

[Armstead]

17. About 45 -45 percent of the people in the parimaries and....that's a despicable description of him

"Bitter old man".....what a lovely understanding phrase.

You can be goddamn sure that if someone posted something similar describing Clinton they'd get a hide.

In fact I just voted to hide an ANTI-Hillary post that was of the same tone you just used.

[seabeyond]

43. A lot of the 45% in the primary are not Democrats.

[tonyt53]

51. Open primaries and caucuses with little participation sure isn't democracy either.

Bernie and his supporters have no idea.

[redstateblues]

106. Lots of Greenies

[unapatriciated]

128. just stop

I have been a Dem since 1972, my children, their spouses, my grandchildren, sisters, brothers and a lot of my friends are all registered D's and we all voted for Sanders.

We will have no problem voting for the nominee, but if it is Clinton, we expect to have a seat at the table in regards to party platform.

[seabeyond]

131. No. I won't "just stop". Facts. Sanders base is Libertarians, Republicans, Baggers, Independents

and some Democrats. No, I won't just stop because you do not want to hear it.

[unapatriciated]

140. living in the South I have met a few libertarians and baggers

and they hate Sanders just as much as Clinton. I don't mind hearing (cause it not the facts) just don't think it helps our party.

Do you have any links for those facts?

You know we have had a few exchanges pre primary and they were pleasant, now I'm just the enemy to you. That is sad.

[seabeyond]

141. The info, demographics, facts are out there and has been published often.

[unapatriciated]

143. so no links to these facts

you made the claim not me.

[bkkyosemite]

56. bitter old man...you HRC's can be so disgusting.

[MohRokTah]

3. Women only get .79 delegates for every 1 delegate a man would get.

And delegates from the South are only worth 3/5 of a delegate.

[MariaThinks]

36. and superdelegates only count if they were for bernie

[brer cat]

41. Thread win!

[msanthrope]

44. #BernieMath. nt

[Beacool]

47. Good one.

[msongs]

4. "presumptive nominee" is a factual title, not some sort of bernie fairy tale nt

[Armstead]

18. Presumptuous is a better word

[pnwmom]

22. Yes, it is so presumptuous for the first woman to be the presumptive nominee.

And to claim the honor and to give a victory speech.

I get it.

[annavictorious]

28. It's like when the Onion headline said that Hillary Clinton is

too ambitious to be the first woman president.

How uppity of Hillary to secure a nomination by getting more votes. Isn't she aware that a less qualified but more deserving white dude wants the job and that his army of other white dudes don't support her uppity highness's coronation by winning?

[Armstead]

29. You had to get that gender thing in there didn't you?

God this reflexive all encompassing "because she's a woman" response is boring.

[pnwmom]

31. Right. Because it's always just a coincidence that the first woman

is held to a higher standard.

[Armstead]

33. I guess because she is a woman there shoiuld be no standard?

In case you hadn''t missed it, presidential candidates are generally held to a higher standard. And presidential campaigns tend to be hard-fought, and people do not give up easily if they have a significant share of the vote and support.

But I guess that doesn't matter BECAUSE HILLARY CLINTON IS A WOMAN.

She can screw up, pass bad laws, say obnoxious things and be a poor leader......And none of that will matter because she is a "woman"?

You're setting back the cause of gender equality by years with that attitude.

[pnwmom]

35. No. Just the exact SAME STANDARD the AP has used since 1984 without complaint

till the first woman threatened to reach it

[Armstead]

67. Every election is different...There is no "standard"

But you're correct. Because Clinton is a woman....blah,blah'blah

[TimPlo]

32. They used same thing in 2008

When she finally dropped out after 4 days of trying to get SD to flip after Obama won the majority of pledge delegates, her staff said reason she lost was that Men in America are not ready for a women president. I guess that changed from her trying to say whites where not ready for a black person she tried at a rally.

[pnwmom]

37. She did have the edge in actual votes, but she didn't make Obama wait

till the convention, as Bernie plans to do.

[R B Garr]

38. I just read a bitter post today about this being Hillary's lifelong dream as if only men

can have those.

[pnwmom]

40. How dare a woman be so ambitious! n/t

[Armstead]

63. FukinA Stupid Complaint

Heard the same thing said about Biden and otehr males candidates, including John Mccain.

Jeezus can you people ever stop blaming everything on gender?

[pnwmom]

89. Please provide a link showing people complaining about Biden being too ambitious.

Or even John McCain.

[Armstead]

92. Did I say too ambitious? I said it is a lofelong ambition.

Stop with the gender paranoia. I''ve gotten immune.

People like you are not advancing your own cause with your demands that everything fall into a template that excludes women from being treated equally (which sometimes means as badly) as men.

[seabeyond]

97. "Stop with the gender paranoia." Stop telling women to not discuss the women's issues in this race.

[Armstead]

101. Some things are not "women's issues"

I'm all for shattering the glass ceiling. But I also care who does it. And I don't think she's the best one to do it.

Just because Clinton happens t0o be a female does not mean that everything revolves around that fact.

Equality is not a free pass for one side.

Being treated equally means you also still get subjected to the same scrutiny, and sometimes the same crap, men have to put up with.

[seabeyond]

104. All for shattering, until Clinton has then we all ignore. Not buying it. And yes. This is a woman's

issue. I am not asking you to buy it or believe it, but do not tell women to shut up. We have had the Sanders campaign claim he is a greater feminist than feminists themselves, and certainly a woman, Clinton.

We are not going to stay quiet because you all tell us to.

And BTW. You do not like who is shattering the glass? You are arbitrator of what women should? Really? The votes have made clear exactly who we support for that shattering. How patronizing. All for women's rights, shattering ceiling, as long as it is done my way.

[Armstead]

107. So men should not have an opinion of who shouild be president?

Hoooooookay then.

So much for political discourse.

[R B Garr]

109. "sometimes the same crap, men have to put up with." Wrong. They don't have to put up with it,

that's the point. And that is largely because the same "crap" you mention is not heaped upon them.

I see someone asked you for an example about Biden and McCain, but you didn't offer any. The most glaring example is what is right in front of us -- how Hillary was treated in 2008 compared to now. In 2008, it was incumbent upon her to unite the party by insisting her supporters rally behind Obama. Now when she's the winner in 2016, it's the opposite. She's expected to rally Sanders' supporters, even after all the chaos he created. In fact, he looks like pretty smug in his indignation about forcing that upon her as if he bears no responsibility for what he has incited in his own supporters.

So in her loss, and now in her win, it's incumbent upon her to soothe everyone on every side imaginable. Do you have an explanation for that?

[Armstead]

111. I don;'t care whether or not you agree with Sanders's approach

It wasn't until the equivalent of several days from now that Clinton conceded. You have no damn clue what Sanders might or might not do.

But that is not relevant to this particular point. I don't care if you approve or disapprove of his actions.

But I do find it a ridiculous notion that it's only because Hillary is a female. That's nonsense.

As for Mccain or Biden, I don;t have time to waste looking up links to prove a point to someone who's mind is closed shut. I'll just say I have seen plenty of timesx whan Biden's perennial presidential ambitions have been slammed or mocked.

[seabeyond]

113. We are going off what he is saying now. Today. That is all we have, his words. Tomorrow,

he shifts, he allows Clinton her win. Then so be it. No pats. He only did what anyone with integrity would or should do. No confetti for that.

[R B Garr]

122. Ah, and that's where the obvious privilege comes from. It's a male's privilege to fight

any way he wants to preserve his position. But if a female does it, scorn is heaped upon her.

[Armstead]

130. Nah nobody is heaping scorn on Bernie....And noooooobody's criticizing Trump

And by the way, was GW Bush a woman?

[seabeyond]

112. Nurturer. It is her damn role, job and obligation. Coddle and stroke, even at her expense.

Did I get it right? Lol

I mean, totally fuckin' obvious and what women live with for a lifetime, but really. It is all made up. The upside. I had an our conversation with my 21 yr old son, discussing all this shit. Damn, it is fun when a man gets it, see it, sees the obvious.

[R B Garr]

123. Exactly, and the double standards are so obvious. She has the role to "unite", so what does

that really mean?? We all know...

In the meantime, Sanders' is praised for trying to force his will and dominate in the most irrational way as is the male privilege.

It sounds like you have done a wonderful job with your sons. My husband sees the difference in how Hillary is treated. He saw the differences in how Obama was treated. It's very obvious what is going on.

[seabeyond]

125. Thank you, RB Garr. I am right there with you. I feel much better having expressed myself.

Et Tu?

lol

[R B Garr]

126. Same here, sea.

Good to hear from you.

I'm watching the anger in Sanders and the irrationality. In the meantime, Hillary has to tiptoe around him while he continues with this *bleep*. (can't say it because of alert police).

[seabeyond]

127. Exactly, and again, how many of us have lived that a lifetime knowing exactly what is going on. Nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

155. No. In fact, they can't. nt

[seabeyond]

45. Not to mention ignoring another ceiling shattered being the first woman nominee of a major party

It is all about Sanders, and his refusal to hand Clinton her win.

[Beacool]

48. No, it's not presumptuous.

It's as it has always been since the 80s. Obama was called the presumptive nominee, although his pledged delegate advantage over Hillary was quite small. Hillary has a large pledged delegate advantage over Sanders. After my state votes on Tuesday, Hillary will become the presumptive nominee.

It's a fact.

[Armstead]

66. It was a joke...Maybe a bad one, but a joke

[Beacool]

77. Sorry, it's hard to tell nowadays who's joking who's not.

[CrowCityDem]

5. If he somehow did swing SDs, the news would report it.

Or, if he didn't want to be reported as having lost the primary, he shouldn't have lost the primary.

[senz]

95. The OP is incorrect. Hill needs 607 more delegates to win.

According to fivethirtyeight.com, as of June 5 (today) Hillary has 1,776 pledged delegates.

Bernie has 1,501 pledged delegates.

2383 delegates are needed to win the 2016 Democratic primary.

Therefore, Hillary needs 607 more delegates to win, and Bernie needs 882 more delegates to win. The totals are so close that neither candidate is likely to reach 2383 from the remaining primaries.

The superdelegates don't vote until July 25.

Therefore, we will not have a winner until the Democratic convention meets and the SDs vote.

[MohRokTah]

151. The pledged delegates DON'T VOTE UNTIL JULY 25, TOO!

Jeez, give it a rest already. You lost. There is no way to win now. It's over.

[George II]

6. Regardless of whatever anyone says - Sanders, his campaign, the media, whatever....

...at approximately 8:00 PM Eastern Time on Tuesday, Hillary Clinton will become the Presumptive Nominee of the Democratic Party. No word parsing, redefining, or anything else will change that fact.

[BobbyDrake]

25. ^This, so many times over.

I don't care what some sore loser thinks. We're not changing precedent just because Bernie Sanders can't accept defeat.

[Beacool]

49. Yes, and it will be my state who will take her over the top.

[R B Garr]

39. +1000. Exactly!

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. Great post.

[DCBob]

8. I don't think they will pay any attention to his bizarre requests.

Hillary will be proclaimed the nominee on Tuesday.

[Armstead]

20. Bizarre requests?...I thought you were a political smartypants

You know Bernie is not expecting the superdelegates will suddenly come rushing to him.

He's playing it for leverage -- AND MORE IMPORTANT for leverage of the interests and values of the appx. 40-45 percent of the people who have supported Sanders in the primary.

[hack89]

62. He will be playing by himself

he can't force the political world to conform to his desires. And they certainly won't.

[Armstead]

65. Missed the point

Bernie is not some old crank off in the corner.

He has significant and enthusiastic support of nearly half of the people who participated in primaries.

Wanna blow them all off too and say hello to President trump?

[hack89]

69. He needs to admit he can't and shouldn't win

If Hillary ends the primaries with a majority of pledged delegates. To continue in the face of that simple reality does make him a crank - he wants to blow off more than half of those who participated in the primaries and have the SDs hand him the nomination. How will Sanders win after blowing them off? You really think Hillary supporters will simply fall in line and vote for him? I wouldn't.

[pnwmom]

87. Not even close to "nearly half." She's almost 3 million votes ahead,

and the states he's won are mostly low population caucus states.

[Armstead]

132. Here's a "math" lesson

Clinton 13,259,842 Sanders 10,225,032

10 is significantly more than half of 13

Not half of 23, but close

[pnwmom]

134. 13,259,842 minus 10,225,032= MORE THAN 3 MILLION VOTERS.

There are 3 million people between 13 million and 10 million -- versus only 3 people between 13 and 10.

No wonder they say too many Americans aren't math literate.

Bernie isn't close by any relevant metric. Not pledged delegates, not super delegates, and not individual voters. And the only reason he appears close in state contests is because he ran up a bunch of wins in low-population, low African American, caucus states.

[Armstead]

138. 3 million out of 23 million

That is close.

If Bernie had, say 3 million total votes you might have a point. But he has 10 million to her 13 million.

[pnwmom]

139. 3 million is more than a third of 10 million. Hillary got 33% more than Bernie's 10 million.

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:31 PM - Edit history (2)

That's bigger margin than we get in most General Elections.

[brush]

115. Every other trailing candidate since the 80s has also had . . .

a percentage of supporters and the delegates, albeit a lesser percentage.

What's happening now is no different. He's the runner-up

The leading candidate has always been declared the presumptive nominee once they reach the 2383 goal with a combination of pledged and super delegates. That will happen Tuesday night when the New Jersey results come in.

Why should it be different now just because Sanders doesn't want to admit defeat.

How many other long-standing rules does he want changed just because he's in the race?

[unapatriciated]

135. they don't understand

that Sanders cares about the party platform and implementing policies. They only see it in a win or lose situation.

Since I voted for Sanders, I'm not really a Democrat. I've been deep undercover voting and supporting Dems since 1972. Not to mention my time and hard earned dollars. Least I forget my children and grandchildren will be surprised to learn that their mother is really a white privileged male.

[seabeyond]

136. What you do not understand is we prefer, the voters prefer Clinton's policies to Sanders policies.

[unapatriciated]

142. but the question is what does Clinton prefer

&spfreload=5



Truth be told the majority of voters like some of Clinton's policies and some of Sander's.

[seabeyond]

145. Sanders with his 5 decade speech was so limited at the beginning of campaign I watched him follow

behind Clinton adopting her shit. Again, SS was Clinton baby long before Sanders. Your point?

[unapatriciated]

146. What ever

If Sanders has been following behind Clinton "adopting her shit" as you state....than you should not have a problem with his supporters wanting a seat at the table regarding the party platform. After all it is really "her shit" that he adopted.

Still waiting on links to those facts you keep asserting, that the majority of Sanders supporters are not Democrats. You made that claim not I.

[DCBob]

81. Smartypants insults aside.. he is losing his leverage by the minute.

More foolish things like this and few will take him seriously about anything.

[Armstead]

90. Once he leaves the Democratic Party reverts to Clinton Inc....

....A smooth running corporate machine in which issues like single payer health care, concentration of power and wealth will all magically disappear once again under the mantra "Vote for us. At least we're not the GOP.".....and, this year's model -- "Vote for Me. At least I'm not Trump."

Despite youir portrayal of Sanders, a good chunk of Democratic voters are sick of that crap. His own nomination prospects aside, that's the leverage that is involved.

[DCBob]

100. Our main goal at this point in time is keeping Trump or any Republican out of the WH.

Hillary is our nominee.. the focus should be on helping her to win.

[Armstead]

103. You made my point.

Keeping the GOP out of power is the perennial goal.

That does not have to mean other issues and goals always have to get pushed to the side.

[DCBob]

147. Its the primary goal when we are a few months prior to the general election..

and we have a clear winner of our primary. There will be plenty of debate during the convention concerning the platform and what issues to focus on but bashing and trashing our nominee will not be part of that.

[NastyRiffraff]

71. It's not a bizarre request; it's a DEMAND!

And AP and everybody else had better do what Bernie says, or....??? Hmmm. What oh what will be the consequences???

[seabeyond]

91. It is not a request. It is a demand with the shaking finger and all. Yes. I saw the "request"

shit. He demands.

[Demsrule86]

11. In your dreams...he has lost

and is making himself look really bad.

[shenmue]

23. Yeah

[Demsrule86]

167. wow someone must have been very naughty

The poster before you..."message auto removed".

[pnwmom]

13. The Associated Press delegate tracker shows she's only 60 delegates away from a win.

https://interactives.ap.org/2016/delegate-tracker/

[zappaman]

15. Bye.

[pnwmom]

19. The magic number includes super delegates, so they get counted, too.

That's how it's always been, ever since Tad Devine helped set up the system in 1984, and no opposing candidate before Bernie has ever claimed it shouldn't happen this way.

[ucrdem]

10. I'm hoping PR and the remaining uncommitted supers put her over tonight.

Glad the Clintons are in California though! LA Times says they've scheduled 50 appearances in this last week and I've gotten to both their events and even shook Bill's hand yesterday!

[boston bean]

16. This is what we get for entertaining this nonsense for so long.

It's been over since Super Tuesday in March.

Really, it was.

But the party didn't want to alienate Bernie Supporters. Yet nothing they can do will ever bring some of these people into the fold.

Now because they didn't do what they did in 2008 and rally around the nominee, by saying things like Hillary can't over come this lead... She needs to suspend, etc..

but nope, we have a different standard for Hillary. In 2008 the party demanded she seek unity and she did. Now 2016, she has to stand by until the man says it's finished.

It's the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever seen.

[GulfCoast66]

156. Yep

The first rule we need is that if you have not been a member of the Democratic Party for at least five years you cannot use the party to help you run for president.

And if Bernie takes this bullshit all the way to the convention, do not allow him on any Senate committees. Let him show up for floor votes.

Oh. And he gets no speech at the convention.

[BobbyDrake]

21. Bernie embarrasses himself with these tactics. Got a bad case of SoreLoserItis, clearly. nt

[Actorvist]

24. he's got to give it up already

unless he really also wants to deport Mexican immigrants.

[Trust Buster]

26. Sanders is done, stick a fork in him.

[Surya Gayatri]

27. Math will win out! Sorry, Bern-buddy. You blew it.

[pandr32]

30. Maybe she will be called even sooner!

She is 57 away from clinching and her win will be historical--of course the AP will call it!

[Sheepshank]

34. When Bernie needs 835 delegates to win, it all seems like kabuki theatre

So many seem to talk about the number of delegates Hillary needs, the actual numbers Bernie needs never seem to get published. I believe it's all in a effort to pretend he has a chance at winning. Hiding those numbers and making ther extreme demands and plays are all a matter of theatre to provide a hope and encourage donations.

[Beacool]

50. That's the term I've been using for a while: Kabuki theater.

[Dem2]

42. Not sure I know (or care, for that matter) what Bernie wants

Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

[brer cat]

46. Good OP, pnwmom.

Bernie want new rules just for her. Screw that!

[murielm99]

54. There is a double whammy for HRC.

Clinton rules and new rules because she is a woman.

Substitute "black" in some of those criticisms, and you see what Obama has put up with for eight years. Women and black people are always held to a higher standard. Both HRC and Obama have met those standards, but some people want to keep moving the goalposts.

Go back to Vermont, Bernie. Shamble and grumble around your own house. Kick the furniture and wave your finger in private. We have seen enough of it.

[basselope]

52. She still won't have enough delegates to clinch.

Sorry, just reality. Something Clintonites have a hard time with.

[riversedge]

53. You keep forgetting the super delegates! Shape up!!

[basselope]

57. They don't vote until the convention. Wake up!!

Plenty of time for them to come to their senses to avoid president trump.

[pnwmom]

61. They're not going to turn their backs on the millions of diverse voters

who voted to give a solid majority of pledged delegates to Hillary.

That would be unprecedented.

[basselope]

74. IF they want to avoid president trump they will.

And that slim majority of voters will get over it.

[Fla Dem]

79. Lol, Lol, Lol, is that all you have to hang your hat on? Weak. nt

[basselope]

85. She has no path to victory in the GE.

So, yeah, its kinda important.

[Fla Dem]

96. We shall see. nt

[basselope]

153. Hopefully not.

Enough time for the superdelegates to come to their senses.

[brush]

119. Have you been asleep for a while? Trump is the one with no path to victory

He of the scam university, he of the deportation of 11 million people, he of the "blood coming out of her eyes and who knows where else", he of calling a judge in a case against him a Mexican, he of all the racial insults and the mocking of disabled people, and on and on and on.

Get real. That clown will lose spectacularly and Clinton will be declared the presumptive nominee when New Jersey reports on Tuesday night.

Sore losers don't get to decide that.

[Lord Magus]

170. Her path to victory in the general is beating the hell out of Trump & winning the most votes.

Here's her path and that's being generous about Trump's chances.

[basselope]

171. LMAO!!!

Current polling says no.

http://www.270towin.com/

[pnwmom]

59. By Tuesday she'll have a majority of all delegates, and a majority of pledged delegates.

And right now the AP says she only needs 60 delegates to reach the combined majority.

And that's BEFORE Puerto Rico's delegates are added in.

[basselope]

72. That includes super delegates which don't count until the convention

[Fla Dem]

80. Does Not Matter. She will have won. You score the most touchdowns by the end of the game

YOU WIN!!! Simple as that.

OMG why is that so hard for some people to understand?

[basselope]

86. Because this isn't football.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

[Fla Dem]

99. Just tell me how Bernie will get the 2383 delegates, please.

[basselope]

148. Superdelegates decides they don't want President Trump.

[Fla Dem]

152. Okay then, you just keep hanging on to that mirage.

[basselope]

154. Its not a mirage.. its a reality.

Clinton has no path to victory in the GE.

She can't debate Trump, her pathetic speech this week proved that... she doesn't even understand the game he is playing.

An anti-establishment candidate WILL WIN in 2016. That's just the political reality.

[GulfCoast66]

157. Because...

Some of us have been at this for a long time. We know how it works.

Just because you really, really like Bernie, nothing changes.

By next Friday, the press, the party, and most importantly, the President will declare Hillary the nominee. All three will move into GE mode and Bernie will be either ignored or ridiculed as a sore loser. What then?

That is what I truly do not understand, what is Bernie going to do? There are no more votes?

[basselope]

159. Superdelegates don't vote until the convention.

The press ignored and ridiculed Trump for months.

Clinton, the press and whole establishment can move into GE mode.. but as polls continue to pour in and it becomes clear that Clinton has no viable path to victory.. the superdelegates will have to decide to either lose with Clinton.. or pick the one who can win.

[GulfCoast66]

160. So you are saying what?

Trump is self destructing before our eyes. The majority of democratic voters picked Hillary and she will gain the majority of the delegates on Tuesday. Do you really want the SD to ignore the will of the voters??

But this discussion is silly. By next Friday the Press, party and President will declare Hillary the nominee. And Bernie will either be get on the bus and endorse her or be ridiculed as a sore loser.

[basselope]

161. You are so clueless.

Trump is hardly "self destructing". Each poll brings him closer to Clinton and he has pulled ahead in most key states, which she didn't have a chance of winning anyway, like Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, etc..

What you fail to understand (and most have) is that Trump is playing by completely different rules than everyone else. All this "self implosion" is just making him harder to defeat, because the people who are voting for him don't pay attention to what the establishment thinks.

Clinton will not beat trump.. she has no path.

[GulfCoast66]

162. Well, I guess we disagree

But she does not need a path to the Democratic Party nomination. She has it.

[basselope]

163. She has no path to victory in the GE.

This isn't really that debatable.

She won't win Florida, Ohio, Virginia or North Carolina.

Without one of those, she would have to win a red state and she isn't close enough in any of those.

She has no path.

[GulfCoast66]

164. As I said, we disagree

Have a nice evening

[basselope]

165. Can you back it up with analysis?

[Lord Magus]

169. Why, so you can dismiss it like you dismiss the fact that Bernie's already lost? -nt-

[pnwmom]

60. She'll even be closer to clinching at the end of today.

According to the AP, Hillary is now only 60 delegates away from the win -- but this doesn't include the delegates she'll get from Puerto Rico.

https://interactives.ap.org/2016/delegate-tracker/

[basselope]

73. That includes super delegates which don't count until the convention

Sorry for the burst of reality.

[Fla Dem]

78. You do know what a majority is, Right?

Curently HRC is at 1776 pledge delegates.

A majority of the total pledged delegates is 2026 (half +1 of the total pledged delegates available 4051.)

HRC only needs 250 (2026-1776=250) pledged delegates to reach majority.

Even if she gets only 50% in PR, NJ and Ca that will be 332 additional pledged delegate.

1776 + 332 = 2108 BAM! Done! Over! Time to turn out the light.

Oh and one more thing,

HRC is only 607 delegates away from the 2383 for an outright win. After Tuesday she'll be even closer, probably cut that number by 400 delegates. Which means she'll only need 207 super delegates. She already has 504.

So don't know what sweet nothings Tad Devine and Jeffery Weaver have been whispering in your ears, but hey keep sending in your $27 to a losing campaign.

[basselope]

88. Meaningless.

You need to have 2383 to win. She won't have it, if at all, until the convention.

However, it is also possible the super delegates will decide they don't want president trump and will not vote for her.

[Fla Dem]

98. If you say so. I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

[basselope]

149. My statement is true, yours is false.

Sorry.

[Lil Missy]

102. Reality is - superdelegates DO count. The news media does not take orders from St. Bernie.

[basselope]

150. They don't count until the convention.. over 1 month away.

[aikoaiko]

58. Do you really think Bernie wouldn't be fighting until the end of HRC were a white male?

[pnwmom]

64. I don't think he'd have run. He's 74 and could have run decades ago.

He waited till the only serious opposition was a woman.

Another coincidence. Right.

Just like when he ran against the progressive woman Governor of Vermont.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/madeleine-m-kunin/when-bernie-sanders-ran-a_b_9170140.html

Hillary Clinton is not the first progressive Democratic woman to be challenged by Bernie Sanders. He ran against me in 1986 when I was running for my second term as governor of Vermont. At that time he had little affinity for the Democratic Party. When advised that his third-party candidacy might result in a Republican victory, he saw no difference between Democrats and Republicans, saying, “It is absolutely fair to say you are dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledee.”

Voters did not agree. Sanders received 14 percent of the vote, the Republican candidate, Peter Smith received 38 percent, and I won with 47 percent.

By any measure, I was regarded as a progressive governor. If I was vulnerable, it was for being too liberal. As a legislator, my maiden speech on the floor of the Vermont House was in favor of ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment. My first priority as governor was universal access to kindergarten. I set a record for a Vermont governor’s appointees; women filled half of my cabinet. I sought out talented women, many of whom were the first women to head their agencies.

SNIP

When Sanders was my opponent, he focused like a laser beam on “class analysis,” in which “women’s issues” were essentially a distraction from more important issues. He urged voters not to vote for me just because I was a woman. That would be a “sexist position,” he declared.

[aikoaiko]

75. yes and no.

I don't think this it was a coincidence that the rise in HRC power (moderate and to the right of Obama) within the party conincided with an underground movement (best seen in OWS) that wanted a more liberal Democratic Party. I do think that in this time of identity politics, Hillary being a women was very important to her success within the Democratic Party given Obama's win in 200&.

But I do not think Bernie's decision to run now had anything to do with HRC being a woman.

This was a good time for Bernie to try and lead a movement within the party. As we see 40 - 45 of Democratic voters agreed. It's not like Bernie can wait another 4 - 8 years to try again because of his age.

We can never know what's in the heart of a person but I'm fairly confident that Bernie would be fighting Bill Clinton as hard as he is Hilary Clinton in 2016.

[pnwmom]

84. Why didn't he run against Bill Clinton? Or Obama -- who was NOT to the left

of Hillary on most issues.

No, he waited till he saw his chance -- with Hillary.

[aikoaiko]

93. Obama campaigned to the left of Hillary and that's why white liberals supported him.

Yes Obama governed closer to HRC but that is why Bernie suggested Obama might be helped by being primaried in 2012 - to hold him accountable for the Hope And Change he campaigned for.

Also, I think you discount the fact that there were more people on the left who were ready for someone like Bernie than ever before and Bernie being no spring chicken.

But I get it - these kinds of accusations are fair play within the identity politics game.

[BlueStateLib]

118. Hillary's voting record is left of Obama's

[Armstead]

110. You've topped yourself...Congratulations

I never thought it could reach this level of nonsense. Silly me.

He only ran against Clinton because she is a woman?

Like many politicians, Bernie has run against male and female candidates.

[pnwmom]

120. Why didn't he run against Bill Clinton? Why not against Obama?

Or John Kerry? He's been in Congress long enough.

[Armstead]

129. Because none of them were women

At this point I'm not sure if you mean these things or just tweaking for the sake of tweaking.

I hope it's the latter.

[pnwmom]

137. I don't think he was conscious of that reason. But I believe that was part of it.

I don't think it was pure coincidence that he'd go after the first woman Governor of Vermont, a strong progressive, and also after Hillary -- but not till she was the only strong candidate in the race

[Gothmog]

68. History is against Sanders

In every past contested Democratic primary, the presumptive winner was announced by the press based on super delegates. President Obama was correct in making this call and it will be appropriate for Hillayr Clinton to also make this call


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History is a good thing and Sanders does not get special treatment that is different from all past contested democratic primaries

[mcar]

70. What a ridiculous demand

[beachbumbob]

76. Unbearable arrogance of a losing candidate...

We are see what sanders has become...

[MFM008]

82. Cnn

talking HRC "clinching" the nomination today..................

[UtahLib]

83. K&R. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

94. K&R

Thank you for articulating exactly what I've been thinking.

[randome]

105. Give into this and who knows WHERE it will end?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

108. It might end by not having the table tipped constantly in the direction of the anointed candidates

A level playing field. What a concept.

[seabeyond]

114. "anointed candidates" Voters. Democrats preferring Clinton to Sanders. Voters. Sanders is wanting

anointment.

[seabeyond]

116. Again, what Clinton accomplished in this race, the solidness of her campaign. All that dismissed by

you "anointment" comment. AGAIN, men credited automatically for success with a campaign that was the winner thru out a primary, and how you and others refuse to allow Clinton that success. That AGAIN, women have experienced a lifetime. We see, we hear, we know it clearly.

[Vattel]

117. Now its the stupid charges of sexism again.

The bullshit never ends.

[William769]

121. kick & recommended.

[arely staircase]

124. What a fucking loser. nt

[DrDan]

144. that's ok - no one is listening

[postatomic]

158. This new Bernie 3.0 is imploding

Either he or someone in his campaign has to know that this kind of shit will backfire. Big. Time. This type of arrogant narcissistic behavior will turn the super-delegates against him.

Confused me am. I'm glad that Hillary called him out. Shit, Bernie has filed more legal actions than The Orange Clump.

[Jamaal510]

166. Not surprised. nt

[workinclasszero]

168. Ill just leave this here....

Sanders takes different position on superdelegates than he did in 2008

Bernie Sanders’s suggestion that he might fight for the presidential nomination all the way to July’s Democratic National Convention runs counter to the position he adopted in 2008.

Now, Sanders’s aides argue that only pledged delegates, not superdelegates, should be counted when weighing support for him and front-runner Hillary Clinton. But in 2008, Sanders backed then-Sen. Barack Obama as the presumptive nominee even though Obama too lacked enough pledged delegates to win outright.


http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/281302-sanders-takes-different-position-on-superdelegates-than-he-did-in-2008