What exactly are the arguments Sanders will make to get supers to switch?

[onenote]

Will he argue that she faces indictment? That's certainly seems to be a favorite argument here on DU among Sanders supporters for distinguishing this election cycle's results for those in previous years when the super d's supported the candidate that won the majority of the pledged delegates. But since the super d's have been aware of the FBI investigation since February and haven't rescinded their support and, in fact, she's continued to add new super d commitments, what is likelihood that argument would carry the day with any of the super d's.

Will he argue that his policies are better than hers? Arguments about the two candidates' policies have been out there for months and months, so what new policy distinction will change super d's minds?

Electability? Will he argue that the polls show he does better against Trump? Will super d's, who are veteran political animals, buy that argument when history suggests polls this far out are unreliable? If super d's think both Clinton and Sanders are electable (which probably is the case for most of them given who the opposition is) what will make them change their minds about supporting Clinton given the unreliability of polls this far out?

[hrmjustin]

1. He will say second is the new first.

[MFM008]

2. Losing is the new Winning?

[enid602]

38. whiners

Whiners are the new heroes.

[beachbumbob]

3. Super delegates are not unaware of bernies baggage like his supporters are...

They sanders electability argument holds no water once the media GOP focuses on his past...his policies and he is showing he lacks the temperament required to be a leader...it's over and no threat of convention chaos inside and out won't change spit....Hillary is our nominee

[RobertEarl]

4. All the above

Hillary is a weak candidate. She lost to Obama and despite her fame and fortune is still campaigning for votes in California.

She had supposedly won on super Tuesday. Remember that?

[Lord Magus]

6. All of those are losing arguments.

And she did win back on Super Tuesday. The outcome of this campaign has not really been in doubt for months now.

[RobertEarl]

12. Over?

Then why are you fighting?

You are all over the place calling the FBI and the justice system fairy tales and here you are again in the dirt fighting like crazy.

I think you are sorely worried.

[Lord Magus]

14. The idea that the justice system is going to bring an indictment against Hillary IS a fairy tale.

And what I am is sick of Bernie's attempt stage a hostile takeover of the Democratic Party, against the will of the voters.

[RobertEarl]

16. Awww

Hillary is a quitter. Bernie will not quit.

[onenote]

18. Why do you think the supporters of the winning candidate should stop defending their candidate

against baseless claims that their candidate isn't really winning?

[RobertEarl]

22. Because they don't believe

They know she is a quitter and they believe she may quit again.

[onenote]

23. Really? A mindreader. Cool. Tell me something else all the Clinton supporters don't believe.

[RobertEarl]

25. They believe Hillary won't quit.

She will. Bernie will not quit. He will win at the convention.

[onenote]

29. That's the same thing you said before. I guess your mind reading skills are limited.

And flawed to boot.

[RobertEarl]

32. Hillary quit once before

And she wasn't even being investigated then.

Bernie is not being investigated and Bernie will not quit.

[onenote]

50. Will Bernie not quit after the convention votes to make Clinton the nominee

or is he going to keep on going like the energizer bunny, demanding that there be two Democratic candidates.

[thucythucy]

40. I'm so very tired of mindreaders on DU.

"Because they don't believe..." "because they know...." "because they believe...."

You haven't clue one what goes on in other peoples' heads, and it's entirely presumptuous of you to act as if you do.

If this post gets me a hide, so be it. My patience with this crap is at an end.

[onenote]

8. And yet, by all of the primary metrics -- actual results

He's even weaker.

In particular, she absolutely smokes Bernie is terms of winning the states where Obama built his electoral college victory in 2012. She's won the primaries/caucuses in 12 of those 26 jurisdictions, representing 172 electoral college votes. Sanders has won 11 of those states, but mostly smaller ones representing a total of only 83 electoral votes. Sanders could win the four remaining pieces of the Obama victory (CA, DC, NM, and NJ) and she'd still have won states with more of Obama's EVs than Sanders. And he isn't going to win all four of those races in all likelihood.

You think Super D's aren't aware of who did best in the blue and purple states with the largest number of EVs?

[RobertEarl]

13. Hillary is a quitter. Bernie will not quit.

That's one note you need to remember.

That and the legal problems Hillary has hanging over her head.

[onenote]

17. He may not quit. But that doesn't mean he won't lose.

Not quitting is not the same as winning.

And in this instance, not quitting likely will be viewed as losing more than the nomination, but also the respect of those calling for unity.

[RobertEarl]

20. Hillary quit. Bernie will not.

[onenote]

28. Yes, you've said that several times. And it won't make a bit of difference.

[RobertEarl]

34. Obama won when Hillary quit

This time Bernie will win when Hillary quits.

[onenote]

43. Obama declared himself the winner and was so deemed by the media before she quit

And I don't recall anyone's hair catching on fire about that approach.

If and when Clinton quits, then the situation will change. But for now, she will be the presumptive nominee as soon as her pledged delegate total and commitments from supers tops 2383.

Could that presumption change? Sure. It could get stronger or weaker. It could even shift. But unless and until it does shift, the operative presumption will be that she's the nominee.

[RobertEarl]

45. If and when Clinton quits

Hey, you're catching on!

I do not presume H to be the nominee. That would be damn foolish of me to do so.

Hillary is a quitter. Bernie will not quit.

[onenote]

49. if and when. not when.

Big f-in if.

[thucythucy]

41. Let's bookmark this

for later reference. If Hillary doesn't quit, will you admit then that you're full of it?

[RobertEarl]

42. Hillary quit once

And she wasn't under investigation.

She can do it again. Go Hillary!

[thucythucy]

44. I notice you didn't answer the question. Nt

[RobertEarl]

46. will you admit then that you're full of it?

That is a question you need to ask yourself, first.

[thucythucy]

47. No it isn't.

I'm not making BS predictions, you are. I'm not parading myself as some sort of political Jeanie Dixon (Google it) you are.

And I notice, yet again, your refusall to answer a simple yes or no question.

That tells me all I need to know about you.

Bye 'bye.

[RobertEarl]

51. You have just shown it

Thank you. Your answer is quite clear.

It is well known that Hillary quit once before and she wasn't even being investigated. Now she is and will again.

Hell yeah I predict it. It's just common sense.

[thucythucy]

58. Still waiting for Hillary to quit?

And how about those "legal problems" "hanging over her head"? You still waiting for that shoe to drop?

[Dustlawyer]

55. And she stinks, even on ice!

If Super Tuesday were to take place now it would be different. More people know about Bernie now. The media dismissed Bernie forever, the made fun of him when they would talk about him at all, because they know he would bust up their oligarchy.

Most of the Super delegates are Remoras to the Plutocrats sharks. They will stick with Hillary to earn their campaign bribe, much like trained seals.

Bernie will use whatever platform he can to help spread the message of political revolution. While the Presidency would have made it easier and much quicker, it will still happen.

We will start at the next midterms replacing bought off representatives with candidates that follow Bernie's platform. Hillary will do her part by proving Bernie right! She will earn the money TPTB have pre-paid for and no amount of false explanations and lies will cover for what she will be asked to do for them. We will restore Representative Democracy and start making the changes necessary to actually provide a safer, more sustainable planet for our kids and grandkids. I hope the oligarchs live long enough to jail, we should have a lot more room in the prisons by than!

[RobertEarl]

56. Like Bernie, we are in it to win it

This is a decades long war which they started years ago.

We aim to finish it off this time, but if not, it doesn't matter, we are in it to win it. We have nothing to lose it's all been taken already.

Being as we, and Bernie, are on the side of justice, peace and the true American way, our cause is pure and the fruits of victory will be good for the whole world and its future.

Thus, we battle on.

[noiretextatique]

5. accurate moniker

and hell yeah, facing a fucking indictment IS a fucking problem. an actual indictment would be more of a problem. but even more troubling...at least it should: the D candidate MIGHT be indicted.

[onenote]

9. So you think Bernie will publicly make a big deal about the FBI investigation

I guess we'll see if that's the case.

But since the FBI investigation has been known since February and the super d's committed to Clinton haven't rescinded their commitments and more super d's have continued to commit to her, what does Bernie say about that investigation to cause them to rescind now?

[Happyhippychick]

7. Vote for the guy with fewer votes!

[William769]

10. BINGO!

[Happyhippychick]

11. .

[JoePhilly]

15. Give the candy to the screaming toddler.

[Tal Vez]

19. Well, it's both simple and difficult at the same time.

The Simple Part: I think Bernie's real concern is that if he drops out now, he will be viewed as having lost. I think that he worries that if after he drops out, but before the nomination, the government takes some sort of serious action against Clinton and if it is felt that a different nominee is needed, the party will not see him as the natural person to whom the party should turn. I think he feels that if he is still in contention, it will be harder for the party, under those unusual circumstances, to look to someone else.

The Difficult Part: It seems to me highly unlikely that the government is going to take any kind of serious action against Clinton because I don't think that there is anything serious there. The difficult part for Sanders is what he's left with in terms of an argument. Right now, he is stuck with arguing that he is the leader of a Revolution and that the success of this Revolution depends entirely upon his ability to convince the people he describes as the Establishment to abandon their support of Clinton and become overnight Revolutionaries. That's a tough sell.

[onenote]

21. Then why not suspend with a statement that he supports her

Doing so would make him much more likely to be the substitute than if he stays in tearing her down and disrupting the convention.

[RobertEarl]

24. The convention is gonna be a blast

All the Bernie supporters there exercising their right to free speech and pissing off the establishment is gonna be something for the history books.

And Bernie walks out as nominee!

[onenote]

27. I guess we'll see if that's the case, won't we.

But I for one wouldn't bet a nickel on it happening.

[NutmegYankee]

37. You remind me of a character from MASH. nt

[Tal Vez]

26. I suspect that Sanders disagrees with you.

I think that Sanders sees his only hope to be that the government goes after Clinton. I think that he sees that as highly unlikely (as I do), but I think he's determined that, in the unlikely event that it does happen, he will be next in line to pick up the pieces.

[RobertEarl]

30. Uhmmmm

The government is already going after Hillary.

It will force Hillary to quit and Bernie will be standing there ready to be nominated.

[Tal Vez]

35. In the event that your prediction proves to be wrong

Sanders has a backup plan to endorse Clinton and work to defeat Trump.

Everybody needs a backup plan.

[RobertEarl]

36. If Bernie is not Pres nominee

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

He must be the VP nominee.

That's plan B.

Plan A is is winning the nomination because the supers see the writing on the wall and convince Hillary to withdraw and endorse Bernie.

PS: Whoever replied to me below, note that in the interest of civility you are on my ignore list. Sorry, but you deserve it.

[metroins]

53. Lol

You must be trolling.

[bravenak]

33. There is no argument

Just sour grapes and false cries of injustice
Cannot wait to get to 2383

[baldguy]

39. "You're a corrupt Third Way DINO corporate fascist, one step short of a NAZI..."

"...who's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people & the theft of billions of dollars from working people. You at the very least should be removed from your position of power & put in prison for life. ... ... ... ... NOW will you consider supporting me?"

[AgingAmerican]

48. They will ask them...

"Paper or plastic?"

[beachbum bob]

52. I'm not really a sore loser. Angry old socialist..

That gop will destroy...no I'm not...lol

[Trajan]

54. To one of the few Hillary promoters left to see ...

Two words:

Superior Electability

[Miles Archer]

57. I have to commend you on this post.

Seriously. If the tone that could be set on a bigger scale is reflective of the tone you've set here, I do believe we could climb out of the swamp.

You ask some direct and tough questions based on what is going on right now, and what has led us up to this point.

You don't slam Clinton or Sanders.

You don't have any "rofl" smileys and snark and condescension.

So thank you for that. I hope more people read your post and "get it."